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MikeA
10-07-2008, 08:30 AM
Kinda had a problem figuring out where to post this rant but think this might be as good a place as any.

New Year's Resolution in October! STAY OFF OF eBay!

I've got to quit making a routine each morning of browsing the listings on eBay. It isn't good for my health!

There are two guitars that I want to own before that plant me out in a meadow somewhere. One of those guitars is a 1958 Gibson Les Paul Sunburst. The are the guitars that started it all.

Here is a set of pics of a 1988 reisue of the 1958 LP

http://cgi.ebay.com/1988-Gibson-1958-RI-Flametop-Les-Paul-w-Vintage-PAF-s_W0QQitemZ360093408557QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360 093408557&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A13 18&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

The other is not a classic. It is "just" a really good mid level acoustic guitar that to my ear has the playability and looks that just yank my chain! This is a Tacoma "Roadking". They are odd looking instruments with the sound hole in the upper left corner of the cutaway body. Tacoma makes another identical guitar called the "Chief" that sells new for quite a bit less than the "Roadking" with the major difference being the material used in construction. The "Chief" has a cedar top that produces a warm sound but the cedar is soft and wears faster and picks up dings and scratches. The "Roadking" is built from the same blueprints but has a Spruce top. It has a brighter sound than the "Chief".

I would really prefer a well loved used Roadking than a new one. As the wood in a new guitar ages, the sound becomes more pleasing and a good 40 year old acoustic (and electric for that matter) is worth much more than a new one of the same model. My dream acoustic is that "Roadking".

And here I am looking at eBay and there is this "Roadking" that sold for the unbelievable price of $331.99. $50 shipping! My train zipped by and didn't stop at my station! These guitars sold for $800 to $900 new. However, Fender has bought the company and the guitars are no longer available. At least not yet! Come on Fender....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150299208657&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

TimothyBFan
10-07-2008, 08:36 AM
Mike-do you use the favorite searches on ebay? That way you get emails everytime one of those items comes up for sell on ebay.

MikeA
10-07-2008, 08:49 AM
Mike-do you use the favorite searches on ebay? That way you get emails everytime one of those items comes up for sell on ebay.

Yeah, I'm an old-timer on eBay. My usual MO is to tease myself with auctions for items I really want for several months before I talk myself into taking the plunge. It makes the actual event much more satisfying than if I bought on impulse <LOL>

TimothyBFan
10-07-2008, 08:56 AM
Gee -and I was feeling sorry for you-but it sounds like you just like the torture!:hilarious::hilarious:

sodascouts
10-07-2008, 11:00 AM
I had to stop checking out Ebay. It was too frustrating to see all this stuff I wanted but couldn't afford!

Brooke
10-07-2008, 01:46 PM
I seem to go in spurts at ebay.

I guess the good thing is, I don't usually buy anything too expensive.

Glennsallnighter
10-08-2008, 06:27 AM
Mike, I think I suggested to you on a previous thread that we may have been in college together! :hilarious:. Now I KNOW we were definitely aligned somewhere in the cosmos at one stage. My morning eBay routine is exactly the same as yours. I too love to browse items and watch their auction over a period of time. I usually only put in a bid with a few seconds to go!! (Thanks for the sniper Ticky!!). It does spice up the auction to watch it ove a while. And I love the adrenaline rush in the last few seconds.

That sunburst is gorgeous. Its out of my league though! Good luck if you go for it. I think I've done enough guitar buying this year!!

MikeA
10-08-2008, 07:40 AM
That sunburst is gorgeous. Its out of my league though! Good luck if you go for it. I think I've done enough guitar buying this year!!

It's outta my league too...and there was a 1958 original LP Jr. listed at $12,000+ I think and that is not a high price for a '58 that is not a reissue.

Here is my (and my son's) weapons. Missing in that pic is also a Jackson owned my my son. Or you can get a closeup of each on plus another bass that isn't in that group shot if you look at THIS (http://mvabercrombie.net/abercrombie_albums/2008_0918_guitars/2008_0918_guitars.html)album of mine.

http://mvabercrombie.net/abercrombie_albums/2008_0918_guitars/s_redguitar001.jpg

TimothyBFan
10-08-2008, 08:28 AM
OK I admit, I know nothing about guitars and the different kinds and what kind of special sounds you get from each etc... All I know about them is I really think it is HOT when a man is weilding one, with his head thrown back and feeling the music that is coming from it! :drool: It's a woman who loves rock and roll and the men that make it thing!! I apologize Mike, for sounding like a woman that counts freckles again :hilarious:.

That being said, I really like that 2nd one from the left, the black one. It is really pretty (I guess that it's probably wrong to call a guitar pretty-Sorry).

MikeA
10-08-2008, 08:55 AM
That being said, I really like that 2nd one from the left, the black one. It is really pretty (I guess that it's probably wrong to call a guitar pretty-Sorry).

"That" one is an Epiphone Sheraton. Epiphone is owned by Gibson (or Gibson is owned by Epiphone....never can keep that straight). Guitars with the Epiphone stamp on them that look like Gibsons such as the Sheraton, are built to the exact same blueprints that the Gibson versions are crafted from. The Sheraton happens to be made from the Gibson ES-335 plans ("ES" = Electric Spanish). This particular model is a semi-hollow body guitar meaning it has a solid block down the center of the body of the guitar but has hollow "wings" underneath the "f" holes on either side.

John Lenon played a Epiphone "Casino" guitar a lot. It looks almost identical to a Sheraton or ES-335 but is entirely hollow bodied.

These are very popular Blues guitars. Warm sound. Nice.

Now a new Gibson ES-335 will cost the owner in the neighborhood of $4,800.00. The Sheraton can still be bought for around $700.00 or twice that much if you get it from the Musician's Friend Custom Shop. There is very little difference...mainly, the pickups. Gibson uses what they call a 57 humbucker. The Sheraton doesn't have quite as good a quality in the humbuckers that they use. Many people buy the 57's and replace the ones in the Sheraton. I haven't.

That guitar plays about as good as any guitar I've ever played. When you attend your next Eagles concert, pay attention to what guitar Stu Smith is playing. The last concert I was at, he was playing a tobacco sunburst ES-335 on quite a few songs. One that comes to mind is "I Can't Tell You Why" That low 5-note riff that is iconic for that song is Stu making that 335 wail with a little reverb tossed in!

HERE (http://www.mvabercrombie.net/VP_Screens/MikeA/ictyw.mp3) is that riff I was talking about though I have neither the effects nor the skills Stu has!

TimothyBFan
10-08-2008, 10:56 AM
One that comes to mind is "I Can't Tell You Why" That low 5-note riff that is iconic for that song is Stu making that 335 wail with a little reverb tossed in!



Sorry, but no way will I be able to pay attention to ANY riff during that song--I am always to busy counting freckles on a certain singer of that one:)

Now I know why I like that guitar --I love the blues (Jonny Lang, Stevie Ray, Kenny Wayne...). Is that the kind of guitar BB King's Lucille is?

MikeA
10-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Sorry, but no way will I be able to pay attention to ANY riff during that song--I am always to busy counting freckles on a certain singer of that one:)

Now I know why I like that guitar --I love the blues (Jonny Lang, Stevie Ray, Kenny Wayne...). Is that the kind of guitar BB King's Lucille is?

Well, Lucille is almost an es-335. It was a version set up especially for B.B> King. The other guys you mentioned are "modern" bluesmen and most of them are using Strats.

MikeA
10-08-2008, 03:58 PM
Here is another one of those posts that I didn't know where to put. I got a catalog from Carvin in the mail today and Walsh is endorsing two guitars in it (i.e. they have him pictured holding/playing them).

One is the CT6S that he was playing in the YouTube that generated so much talk over Joe's "health".

The other is a CS6S which is a Les Paul shaped guitar.

I didn't want to put the pics "in-line" in a message because to get them large enough to see the postage sized pictures of Joe, I had to take them to 100% resolution at 200DPI...that's pretty big. But, here are the Links:

I do "freckle counting" too but most of my counting is centered on the guitars!

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/VP_Screens/MikeA/ct6m.jpg
http://www.mvabercrombie.net/VP_Screens/MikeA/cs6m.jpg

Glennsallnighter
10-08-2008, 04:45 PM
That is a beautiful collection of guitars that you and your son have amassed Mike. Do you play much?

MikeA
10-08-2008, 04:50 PM
That is a beautiful collection of guitars that you and your son have amassed Mike. Do you play much?

Not really much any more. Or not as much as I used to play. When I play now, it's just for fun...knocking around in the basement when my wife is not at home <LOL>

I figured that if I bought enough guitars, eventually, one of them would play like Joe Walsh. My intentions were good but my talent was lacking!

Let me put it this way: The infatuation you Ladies (Capital "L") have with the band members is a lot more likely to show a realized goal than have I in reaching a goal to play a 6-string like Walsh or Felder <LOL> But that doesn't stop me from making noise trying! Heck, I'm only 60, so I have years and years to practice :hilarious:

MikeA
10-08-2008, 05:01 PM
I think I've done enough guitar buying this year!!

The implication is that you have a guitar or two. What do you have? Inquiring minds want to know? :)

Glennsallnighter
10-09-2008, 05:37 AM
The implication is that you have a guitar or two. What do you have? Inquiring minds want to know? :)

Well, yes Mike I do! My first one was a Fender Accoustic which my parents bought me way back in 1982, and which has served me very well since. However last year I was thinking it was getting a little on was thinking of upgrading it when Maleah posted the following link

http://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=652

Now THAT whetted my apetite as you can imagine. You can read about it in the link, and suffice to say that thanks to a lot of help from Soda and a lot of support from everyone else the magic package finally arrived.

I also have a Fender Squier electric guitar which my better half bought me for Christmas last year.

My daughter has a 3/4 size accoustic guitar that we got her for her 6th birthday and a 3/4 size 'Hello Kitty' electric guitar thet was for her 7th!!. I'll put some pics of them all into my profile if you want to view them.

Thanks for your interest!!

MikeA
10-09-2008, 05:54 AM
I'll put some pics of them all into my profile if you want to view them.

Thanks for your interest!!


I am Definitely Interested GAN! Sam's has removed the picture of the promo. Is it a Jasmine? If not, which model Tak? I know someone else who is getting a Tak this weekend!

The Eagles have had a long running association with Takamine. They autographed one and presented it to Bill Clinton back when he was in office. You are in good company!

And, don't trash that Fender Woody! It should be just about well marinated with sound about now! It may have battle scars, but older guitars, especially acoustics sound better with 20 or 30 (or more!) years of age.

My Father-in-law has a Gibson archtop acoustic from back in the 1920's that doesn't even have a model number! The body is cracked and it looks like hell but that thing SOUNDS wonderful anyway! I've encouraged him NOT to have it repaired. It would ruin it's "vintage" value. I hate to even speculate on what that old ax is worth on the market today!

What about amps for the Squire? Have you doctored it? Lowered the action? Do you play it a lot? What type music?

I started out on Peter Paul and Mary back in 1963 myself. Never have gotten much further than chords.

As you have probably surmised, I love guitars!

Freypower
10-09-2008, 05:52 PM
Mike, I assume you know Felder's story about the Takamine that was presented to Clinton? He said they should have given him a Gibson or a Martin, not a 'cheap Japanese guitar'. I found the implications behind this comment offensive to say the least.

MikeA
10-09-2008, 08:03 PM
Mike, I assume you know Felder's story about the Takamine that was presented to Clinton? He said they should have given him a Gibson or a Martin, not a 'cheap Japanese guitar'. I found the implications behind this comment offensive to say the least.

Yes, I remember that from Felder. In a way, I can see his point, HOWEVER, if the Eagles, for whatever reason were committed to Takamine and used them almost exclusively onstage (certainly true of Glenn) then giving the President or anyone else an autographed guitar would have been less than an honest presentation.

And, depending on the model, some Taks, like most any brand, are NOT all "cheap Japanese" guitars! Their upper end models are have a pretty hefty price tag...they just don't have the "name" that Gibson, Taylor or Martin have. Actually, if you want to be technical, I think they are made in China <LOL>. Probably have factories all over the place though. But I think Felder was going for "effect" by making that statement.

sodascouts
10-09-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable at all about guitars, other than being familiar with Lindsey Buckingham's famous Turner Model 1 and recognizing Glenn's "Old Black." Otherwise, I can't tell a Tele from a Strat! I still find reading these discussions interesting, even if I can't contribute.

MikeA
10-09-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable at all about guitars, other than being familiar with Lindsey Buckingham's famous Turner Model 1 and recognizing Glenn's "Old Black." Otherwise, I can't tell a Tele from a Strat! I still find reading these discussions interesting, even if I can't contribute.

If Don is playing it, it's a Tele <LOL>. Glenn has a pretty wide arsenal of weapons. He playes Les Paul quite a bit. But acoustic, Glenn has been playing almost nothing but Takamine giters. Joe, well, heck, he probably has one of everything and picks the guitar that gives him exactly the sound the song calls for. It might be a $200 Danoelectric for slide work or it might be a priceless 1958 Les Paul! He doesn't care about brands that much but what that guitar can do for the sound he is after and each one is at least a little bit different in setup or electronics (pickups, pots, etc.) He has said that he usually comes back to Les Paul or Fender, but I think the scales tip toward Gibson for Joe. However, that might be changing with his endorsement of Carvin.

eaglesvet
10-09-2008, 09:21 PM
I know even less than that. My sons have both been taking guitar lessons for a few months now, and sound decent for that level as far as I can tell. They have one acoustic and one electric guitar, but I don't know what name.

They've both taken piano for years, and are excellent at that. This year in school, the band director finally convinced my 7th grader to take up the xylophone (after a year of needling him), which should be interesting. My 4th grader is also just starting up the alto sax in school, but he was gung-ho for that on his own! And poor me, can only play music on my CD player!:laugh:

ticky
10-09-2008, 09:25 PM
I've noticed lately when I see him (Joe) in concert pics and in the videos, he's almost always using either his Les Paul, the black Fender strat or his custom carvin. Unless he's going acoustic then they all use the Taks (except Tim who's using a Bass I cant identify since I know diddlysquat about Bass's) but that's just from other peoples pics and the F1 and HFO vids.



and on the home front .. ahem.. I GET A NEW GUITAR TOMORROW!! YEA!!! (happy happy Ruprect dance <--obscure movie reference..)

When I get it, Ill post a picture for ya'll to admire *G*

MikeA
10-09-2008, 09:34 PM
I've noticed lately when I see him (Joe) in concert pics and in the videos, he's almost always using either his Les Paul, the black Fender strat or his custom carvin.

So we got another one hangin' out on the wires! Way to go Ticky!

So Joe's moved to that Black Fender huh? His goto Strat in the past has always been that turquoise Fender. Times to change. I know he likes that new hi-tech Les Paul but good grief....every guitar manufactorer in the business would supply Joe with whatever he wanted if only he'd use it!

ticky
10-09-2008, 10:25 PM
So we got another one hangin' out on the wires! Way to go Ticky!
*G* thanks!


So Joe's moved to that Black Fender huh? His goto Strat in the past has always been that turquoise Fender.
Nope, you're right. He does use the turquoise fender too. But not as often as the black. the black is old and beat up but I think he uses that a lot when he goes for the slide. Doesnt want to hurt that pretty turquoise vintage strat *G* WHICH btw, I saw and played with one VERY much like it today! (also a Les Paul Standard, A Seagull, several Taks and a VERY purdy Epi or two!)

AzEaglesFan
10-10-2008, 01:53 AM
My Hubby has three guitars. 2 acoustics and one electric. I know 1 of the acoustics is a Martin knock off that is why he bought it. For some reason Bob and his 2 brothers think the only guitar worth anything is a Martin. I have no musical ability at all so I leave all the struming up to them. They have all played for years but they won't be giving Joe any trouble anytime soon.

TimothyBFan
10-10-2008, 07:11 AM
Question -once you learn guitar can you make an easy transition to bass? My son has several guitars and has played for years, mostly rock when he first started out. The new band he is in needed a bass player so he picked it up and now has one of them and is playing it. Of course what this band calls music, I do not! He really enjoys it tho and we have always encouraged it!

MikeA
10-10-2008, 08:04 AM
Question -once you learn guitar can you make an easy transition to bass? My son has several guitars and has played for years, mostly rock when he first started out. The new band he is in needed a bass player so he picked it up and now has one of them and is playing it. Of course what this band calls music, I do not! He really enjoys it tho and we have always encouraged it!

My son did exactly that TBF. But whether it was easy or not, I couldn't say. My son has talent. I don't. It would be difficult for me as I haven't mastered the 6-string guitar yet (still working on Michael Row Your Boat Ashore) but then, I've only been trying for 50 years so I still have hope!:doh:

What he told me was that he started out with learning the notes for the bass for each chord in each key his band was playing in. Then he started improvising "filler" notes for each one of those chords. Now he's playing some sort of slap-bass that's really fast though I've seen him slow it down and mellow it out more like TBS plays. But Zack moves around in the group quite a bit. He's capable of playing some lead. But right now, he's moved from bass to playing rhythm on a baritone Ibanez.

"Teach Your Children Well" I didn't get any encouragement from my parents when it came to music...especially Guitar. I tried not to make that mistake with my two kids and I think it paid off.

Yesterday, my 2-1/2 year old grandson discovered my microphone! I've been letting him strum all three of my guitars as long as I'm there with him. But to hear him singing "Hey There Little Ridding Hood" amplified through the mic and slapping my acoustic, cracked me up! He's going to outdo his Uncle Zack I think!

ticky
10-10-2008, 09:57 AM
My son did exactly that TBF. But whether it was easy or not, I couldn't say. My son has talent. I don't. It would be difficult for me as I haven't mastered the 6-string guitar yet (still working on Michael Row Your Boat Ashore) but then, I've only been trying for 50 years so I still have hope!:doh:
First of all... HA! and HA! I have heard you play. You have talent, Perhaps not like Zack or Joe, but dont sell yourself short there lil buckaroo!!



"Teach Your Children Well" I didn't get any encouragement from my parents when it came to music...especially Guitar. I tried not to make that mistake with my two kids and I think it paid off.

Yesterday, my 2-1/2 year old grandson discovered my microphone! I've been letting him strum all three of my guitars as long as I'm there with him. But to hear him singing "Hey There Little Ridding Hood" amplified through the mic and slapping my acoustic, cracked me up! He's going to outdo his Uncle Zack I think!

You'll have to record Miles singing. What a kick!! And pictures!! Take pictures!!

Yesterday I took my cousins daughter to 5Star guitar to "play" and she had the BEST time! I dont know how thrilled my cousin will be. She fell in love with a butterfly shaped electric guitar! LOL it's just her size and she looked great holding it! Im going to let Sarah play Buzzy (my old guitar) if she's careful. Right now she kind of does what Miles does and strums the strings while it's still in the case. Maybe I'll spring for a stand for the new one too .. hmm...

MikeA
10-10-2008, 10:09 AM
You'll have to record Miles singing. What a kick!! And pictures!! Take pictures!!


Taking pictures is not a problem. Didn't take any yesterday because we to busy rollin on the floor as he was getting into the whole scene! Especially the "wolf howl!" He's got the headbanging down and the facial expressions are nailed! Really need a video of all this <LOL>

But recording presents a problem. I have minimal equipment right now. A mic, a guitar and an amp that has only one input. I have another acoustic amp that has mic and guitar inputs (Fender Acoustasonic Jr.) but I'll have to retrieve that from my father-in-law. Anyway, the mic can plug into the Marshal practice amp I have but then I wouldn't have an output to the computer's sound card. With the guitar, I can plug into the amp and then plug the mic into the sound card and record that way.

I need a better sound card I guess that can take the output straight from the amp. My sound card is supposed to be able to do that but it doesn't work. To get clean sound I have to mic the amp into the computer and that doesn't leave a mic for Miles to sing into <sigh>.

With the Acoustasonic, I can plug in the guitar and a mic and then would just have to get another mic to plug into the computer. I might have to do some running around today and see if I can find a decent mic to give me what I need.

ticky
10-10-2008, 04:19 PM
Here is it!! My new baby! it sounds like heaven and it's small so I can actually HOLD on to it!! Im so happy!!!

ticky's Ax (http://www.tickypages.com/tickys_ax/)

the coffee mug is about 20 oz's (I only say this cuz WT was making fun of my caffine addiction :P)

Glennsallnighter
10-10-2008, 06:28 PM
Oh Ticky, its Beautiful. I hope you have many happy times playing it. Good luck

Glennsallnighter
10-10-2008, 06:50 PM
I am Definitely Interested GAN! Sam's has removed the picture of the promo. Is it a Jasmine? If not, which model Tak? I know someone else who is getting a Tak this weekend!

The Eagles have had a long running association with Takamine. They autographed one and presented it to Bill Clinton back when he was in office. You are in good company!

And, don't trash that Fender Woody! It should be just about well marinated with sound about now! It may have battle scars, but older guitars, especially acoustics sound better with 20 or 30 (or more!) years of age.

My Father-in-law has a Gibson archtop acoustic from back in the 1920's that doesn't even have a model number! The body is cracked and it looks like hell but that thing SOUNDS wonderful anyway! I've encouraged him NOT to have it repaired. It would ruin it's "vintage" value. I hate to even speculate on what that old ax is worth on the market today!

What about amps for the Squire? Have you doctored it? Lowered the action? Do you play it a lot? What type music?

I started out on Peter Paul and Mary back in 1963 myself. Never have gotten much further than chords.

As you have probably surmised, I love guitars!

I know you like guitars Mike!! Apologies for not getting back sooner. I actually responded last evening with a few pics as well. I then went to put in one teeny weeny emoticon. My whole system froze and I had no option but to shut down and restart, thus losing everything.

OK the Takamine is a G-series Takamine. Here is what the original add looked like:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/Irisheaglesfan/sigtakamine.jpg

And a close up of the sigs

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/Irisheaglesfan/0040639982279_L2.jpg

Of course, like you and Joe I assumed that just handling something Glenn :heart: actually touched would transfer some of that magic to my fingers and I would play as well as he does. Sadly that was not to be!! :ack:

Anyway here is one of the one I eventually DID get.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/Irisheaglesfan/Guitar1-1.jpg

and again the sigs close up:
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/Irisheaglesfan/Guitar2-1.jpg

Glenn:heart:'s has come out well in a nice position. I think he knew I was going to buy it and made sure!

As regards playing, well I played the Fender for years in various school and church music groups until the kids were born. It then went on ice for a while due to time constraints, but now I am attending a guitar group on a Monday evening. At the moment I am playing mainly Eagles and Glenn :heart: Frey music as I have built up quite a collection of their songs over the last few years. Its mainly chords but I managed IDTWNW using my own version of Guitar TAB over the summer. Laura actually recognised it!! lol!

I just have a fairly basic 'starter' amp which came with my Fender Squier. When you live in a semi-d thats all you can really use. Coupled with the fact that my son finds loud and sudden noise very difficult to handle. I haven't doctored i as I wouldn't know what to do!! lol! Again I play Eagles and Glenn :heart: on the electric guitar as well. This is it:
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/Irisheaglesfan/DSC00826.jpg

Your FIL's guitar sounds like a real gem too!

I take it the person getting a Tak this weekend is Ticky:wink::wink:. If so I saw it on another thread Ticky! It looks great! Happy playing!

Glennsallnighter
10-10-2008, 06:59 PM
I can't tell you why Photobucket won't display these images. I'll put them in my photos file and you can access them there.

ticky
10-10-2008, 07:30 PM
Lisa, Thanks *G* and what can I say? Jealous much? YES I am!!! Both your guitars are gorgeous! and the Sigs are perfect!

My Tak is a G series too, but its a concert guitar so its a bit smaller then the standard dreadnought but thats perfect for me. It fits like it was made for me and the sound is beautiful! I had the guy at the store lower the strings a little to save my poor fingers, but they're still pretty sore *G* I can actually play a recognizable Peaceful, Easy Feeling (if I sing a long with it *G*) but compared to old Buzzy, it's an Angel's harp *G*

MikeA
10-10-2008, 08:25 PM
Ticky, there is just one thing I don't understand....I thought you wanted a RED one! <LOL> You have a seriously nice guitar there and I KNOW you will get more enjoyment from it than you can possibly imagine!

GAN,
What is the finish on your Tak "G"? I've never seen one with that finish before and I like it! I take it that you do not play it a lot? I'd be afraid I'd wear away the sigs myself. That's about where my elbow would be rubbing.

I like the finish on that Squire too. You can't go wrong with red!

I played for years in a Praise Group too. That's where I got to sample a lot of different guitars...mostly acoustic. But once I landed my EPI, they wanted me to bring it so I ended up bringing the Sheraton and plugged in straight to the mixing board. But with the Seagull, I had to have an amp to kick the signal to something the PA system could work with. That's why I got the Acoustasonic. The thing is a monster in weight though it is supposed to be portable. It weighs at least 50 pounds and is barely small enough to sit in the back seat. So, I looked like I was "moving in" on Sunday mornings <LOL>. By the time I hauled in two guitars, an amp, two guitar stands and all the cords and tuners, I was worn out before it was time to play!

But that is how you begin to reach your potential as a player. The chalenges of playing before a crowd, whether it be a church congregation or a bunch of partiers at a night club....it pushes you to new limits!

Maleah
10-10-2008, 11:03 PM
Sorry, but no way will I be able to pay attention to ANY riff during that song--I am always to busy counting freckles on a certain singer of that one:)

Now I know why I like that guitar --I love the blues (Jonny Lang, Stevie Ray, Kenny Wayne...). Is that the kind of guitar BB King's Lucille is?

I LOOOOOVE Jonny Lang! Marc Broussard is also another amazing soul singer who happens to be one of my very favorites. He generally plays more acoustic guitar himself than blues guitar though.

Right now I have cheapies.......a Peavey electric and bass, as well as a applause acoustic electric. However, I did just "accidentally" purchase a Fender Jazz 4-string bass on ebay. :stunned::fainted:

MikeA
10-10-2008, 11:15 PM
Okay, we've got everything except a drummer. What are we going to call ourselves?...

"Borderline?"

ticky
10-11-2008, 12:02 AM
Boarderline is good *G* I just want to see how we're gonna manage practice!!

MikeA
10-11-2008, 12:08 AM
Boarderline is good *G* I just want to see how we're gonna manage practice!!

Simple. Y'all just come on over to my house. Basement and plenty of electrical outlets. One of you guys must bring the cookies though!

ticky
10-11-2008, 01:24 AM
Cookies I can do, Kansas?? might be a long drive *G* I say we all meet in Vegas.

MikeA
10-11-2008, 07:48 AM
We usually stay on Fremont St (Old Las Vegas) when we go. When I'm tired of the machines and tables, there is sometimes a live band (well, some of them are alive) playing on one of the two free stages at the two closed intersections under the canopy. I've seen some good ones. But the nights those stages are not being used, we could probably plug in there.

We'd have to be careful though. While I wouldn't mind being a part of a $1,000,000.00 a performance gig, I don't particularly want to end up like Celine or Sir Elton so I think I'll stick to my basement. But then again, we might need Elton on keyboards and Celine could sing background "do-ops".

glenneaglesfan
10-11-2008, 10:05 AM
Borderline sounds a great name for a the band!

I've been reading this thread with interest, and enjoying the guitar pics. I take an interest in the guitars that the Eagles play, and somewhere there is a thread called 'Glenn's equipment':) which featured some of his guitars.

Ticky and GA, your guitars are beautiful.

I wish I could play. I was encouraged to be musical but as my dad played violin, that was what I learnt and I had little talent. I'd have loved piano or guitar lessons. I always used to sing in a choir as well, so at least I can read music. We encouraged our two boys with music. They both had piano lessons but it was always a struggle, then my older son started on the trumpet and moved on to the French horn, while younger son also played trumpet. Now my older son has taught himself guitar. He has an acoustic, a very cheap classical guitar, and a sunburst Epiphone Les Paul which he bought well before I ever knew Mr Frey played one! Then just this week, he bought a Yamaha synthesizer, so perhaps I could offer him as your keyboard player! Younger son has a Yamaha bass in a natural wood finish, and plays with friends in a band.

Mrs Henley
10-11-2008, 04:01 PM
Lovely guitars!!!

I have a guitar, an acoustic one.. only there are 2 problems :laugh:
1. the guitar isn't good anymore, the strings are a little wrong :lol:
2. I can't play guitar!
I can play the drums a little, but would love it to have a workshop drumming from Mr Don Henley, but I will keep dreaming about that.

First learn to play guitar :rofl:

MikeA
10-11-2008, 05:45 PM
Lovely guitars!!!

I have a guitar, an acoustic one.. only there are 2 problems :laugh:
1. the guitar isn't good anymore, the strings are a little wrong :lol:
2. I can't play guitar!
I can play the drums a little, but would love it to have a workshop drumming from Mr Don Henley, but I will keep dreaming about that.

First learn to play guitar :rofl:

The "strings are a little wrong?" I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask how they can be "wrong". Would a new set of strings fix the issue? A set is pretty inexpensive....< $12.00 US for really good sets.

Mrs Henley
10-11-2008, 05:49 PM
The "strings are a little wrong?" I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask how they can be "wrong". Would a new set of strings fix the issue? A set is pretty inexpensive....< $12.00 US for really good sets.

Well, they don't play good (a friend played also on it and he is a guitarist), and the guitar isn't straight (well the strings aren't) Yeh, I have to buy new ones, will find some string monday after college.

MikeA
10-11-2008, 06:01 PM
Well, they don't play good (a friend played also on it and he is a guitarist), and the guitar isn't straight (well the strings aren't) Yeh, I have to buy new ones, will find some string monday after college.


Ahhh, NOW I'm beginning to "get it". It has to be that your friend was talking about the neck of the guitar. Not knowing what brand and model it is and since I can't see it, I was suggest that you take it into a music shop and have them adjust the truss rod if it has one. That's what it's there for.

If it has one, the nut that is turned to adjust the neck is probably underneath a shield looking thing up on the Headstock right behind the "nut" that the strings first touch after leaving the posts of the tunning machines.

YOU don't want to try to adjust it though. Let someone who knows what they are doing give it a twist. Walsh had a VHS tape out (maybe still does) where he talks about neck adjustments. It's not hard, but you sort of do need to know what you are looking for as you adjust it. They (music store) might not even charge you for it if you bought strings from them.

Mrs Henley
10-11-2008, 06:44 PM
Haha, I don't know the brand also.

Thnx for the info :)



Ahhh, NOW I'm beginning to "get it". It has to be that your friend was talking about the neck of the guitar. Not knowing what brand and model it is and since I can't see it, I was suggest that you take it into a music shop and have them adjust the truss rod if it has one. That's what it's there for.

If it has one, the nut that is turned to adjust the neck is probably underneath a shield looking thing up on the Headstock right behind the "nut" that the strings first touch after leaving the posts of the tunning machines.

YOU don't want to try to adjust it though. Let someone who knows what they are doing give it a twist. Walsh had a VHS tape out (maybe still does) where he talks about neck adjustments. It's not hard, but you sort of do need to know what you are looking for as you adjust it. They (music store) might not even charge you for it if you bought strings from them.

Glennsallnighter
10-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Ticky! If you think its difficult to get from Oregon to Kansas for practice can you imagine hubby's reaction when I suggest going from Ireland to Kansas!! But somehow if 'Borderline' makes it, I will too!!

MikeA
10-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Ticky! If you think its difficult to get from Oregon to Kansas for practice can you imagine hubby's reaction when I suggest going from Ireland to Kansas!! But somehow if 'Borderline' makes it, I will too!!

It sure would be fun to bang around with others. I miss it I do! My son has gone Reggae and the closest thing I've come to that is Hotel California!

But I did get my Fender acoustic amp back today. I really like it. The old strings on my Seagull have long lost their brightness. But the amp has a "string dynamic" that you can dial that brightness of new strings right back in!

And I wish you could hear what the "chorus" does for my Epi! Now I remember why I bought that amp!

Oh, and I discovered my other microphone was in the gigbag I'd taken up to my F-I-L's. Might be able to hook something up now that will capture Miles singing <LOL>

I had forgotten that I had a belt amp with distortion. It's great for practicing with an electric using headphones. But alas, I have not been able to find the vintage 1968 8-ohm headphones that I've used for years...well, about 40 years as a matter of fact! One of these days when I'm not looking for them, I'll find them.

But seriously on the practice...it's good to practice "solo" but so much better to work with someone else. Adds a lot of motive to squeez out everything you've got and pushes you to new skills with the ax. Heck, I might even move to Country if I could find someone around here who played that style! "G" "D7" and "Em" or "C" "G7" and "F" for some Folk.

I pulled out an old PP&M book this morning (Peter Paul & Mary). "Puff", "Hammer", "Flowers" all those old Folkies. Fun stuff!

TimothyBFan
10-12-2008, 06:52 PM
We went to an antique show this afternoon and I found an old guitar and case displayed in one of the booths and I found myself going over and looking it over. My husband wondered what I was doing. Told him was just curious. I would have probably looked at it and walked by it a week ago--before I started reading this forum! :smile:

ticky
10-12-2008, 11:01 PM
heheh Willie, gotcha!! before you know it, you'll be hooked too with a new ax and bangin out a tune! I am loving it so much I cant even tell you!


Mike! I cant wait to hear Miles singing LLRH!! *G* and you gotta let him play your git too!! *G* you're raisin' that boy right *G*

MIL got me a deluxe gig bag for my bday and a hotel cali tab book!! WOOHOO!! before ya know it I'll be another Joe! or Felder! .. eh.. maybe Henley *G*

As far as Borderline goes, I'll need the travel time to practice! Im not *quite* ready to play with anyone else *G* or in front of anyone else for that matter! I guess Joe, Felder and Henley are still safe *G*

MikeA
10-14-2008, 08:06 AM
Well dang! I knew Joe has about every guitar he might ever have a fancy for but I didn't know he played Tacoma guitars! This one looks like it might be one of the Jumbo Cutaway Baritone guitars. I have major lust for one of the Tacoma Roadkings. They look almost exactly like this one but are just a little smaller and have a higher tone. I note that this one has a Spruce top instead of the softer Cedar top like the "Tacoma Chief".

It is such a shame that Tacoma was bought out by Fender and is for now anyway, shut down. I heard something about them moving the Tacoma factory to Connecticut. I just hope they reopen under the Tacoma name!

I don't remember who posted this pic...Peekaboo? I believe it is a scan from the LROE program. Anyway THANKS....

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c95/Pekahchu/Eagles/scan0008joe1.jpg

MikeA
10-20-2008, 07:43 PM
Here's a new Gearhead in the group! There are other pictures of Miles banging the gitters at my website (http://mvabercrombie.net/abercrombie_albums/2008_1020_guitars_sand/2008_1020_guitars_sand.html):




http://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=14&pictureid=175

Glennsallnighter
10-21-2008, 07:23 AM
Awwww Mike, he is ADORABLE!!!:xoxo:

TimothyBFan
10-21-2008, 07:28 AM
Miles is a cutey!!! It also looks like he is much adored by his grandpa!!!

Brooke
10-21-2008, 10:33 AM
Awwww, he's adorable Mike! :smile:

Prettymaid
10-21-2008, 01:23 PM
http://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=14&pictureid=175

Look out JW!

MikeA
10-27-2008, 01:26 PM
After being in Vegas for a week, Miles and I both had a lot of jamming to catch up on last night! He just about has Lil Red Riding Hood down pat...especially the "wolf's Howl". He really likes singing into the Mics. I have one of the plugged into my Acoustasonic Jr. that has both Chorus and Reverb on the Mic side. He get's down on that one!

Dang, while walking down to the El Cortez on Fremont in downtown Vegas, I noticed a "Vegas Guitar" shop that had opened since the last time I was out there! In the front window, there was a Les Paul finished in silver and glitter! I meant to go back and look at what other guitars they had on display. I'll just bet they had some pretty rare axes hanging on the walls.

Every once in a while, you can find some real treasures in Pawn Shops. I'm not hesitant to browse through the ones in Wichita. But in Vegas...well, you must know how desparate the people are who are hocking things out there for gambling money. The shop I saw wasn't a Pawn Shop, but I've seen them out there. Always in pretty creapy parts of town! You know, next to the Museum of Erotic Arts, or the Adult Book and Movie store! There are usually people of all ages laying on the sidewalks covered in newspaper close to those shops.

glenneaglesfan
10-27-2008, 05:23 PM
Mike, your little grandson is cute. Good to see you are bringing him up properly!

Vegas sounds a bit scary!

MikeA
10-27-2008, 07:00 PM
Mike, your little grandson is cute. Good to see you are bringing him up properly!

Vegas sounds a bit scary!


Oh no GEF! I didn't mean to give that impression. Like any other city, you just have to be aware of where you are and not go where you should not be. We've been going at least 3 times a year and usually 4 or 5 times a year since the Eagles concert out there in 2003 I think it was. We have NEVER had any problems....well, nothing worst than being propositioned or been hit up for smokes or a few bucks to help someone supposedly stranded get enough money to get a car repaired. That last was a pure unadulteraged CON and we blew it off as such.

But we have NEVER felt that we were in danger. And it is a fantastic place for ADULTS to go have fun and believe it or not, after the first couple of trips, it is VERY inexpensive! You sign up at all of the casinos for their free Player's Club Cards and then use them any time you play a machine or at a table game in that casino. Seldom a day goes by now that we do not get either free or at least discounted offers from several casinos in Laughlin, Las Vegas or around the northern part of Kansas.

The worst we have paid in the last 5 years or so has been something like $69 a night for weekends on holidays. Usually it is $29 a night when it isn't FREE. We spend $10 or $15 dollars for coupon books where we get either free or 2 for one meals. Nearly all of the casinos we go to offer us cash to use at the tables or on the machines. So, really, about the only major expense we incur is for the Rental Car. We know our way around the outlying casinos (and the Strip for that matter though we seldom go to the tourist casinos on the Strip). But for 5 days and 4 nights, our rental expense is usually around $115. That's a LOT cheaper than it would cost to take a taxi.

MikeA
12-06-2008, 10:26 AM
I think I need to get a life! Working out of my basement has a lot of advantages, but there are disadvantages too! Every time I come through to my office, I can't help but see the guitars and amps in the main room. Then, instead of getting back to coding efforts, I'm thinking about those axes or ones that I'd like to have.

Here lately, it's been a thought of mine to do some alteration work on the EPI. It has some pretty tame humbucker pups on it. While I'd like to switch them out for some better Gibson or Gibson clones, there is something I think I want to try.

I'm considering coil-tapping the bridge pup. It would be easier to do on a solid body guitar where the cavity can be completely exposed just by removing the pickguard, but it wouldn't be that easy on semi-hollow body guitar like the Sheraton. Maybe I could put a on-off switch mounted to the underside of the pickguard. Or, I could switch out the tone knob on the bridge pickup to make it a push-pull pot with one position turning the humbucker into a single coil! But that would require some pretty intricate fishing of electronics through the eff holes.

Still, I'd like to try this mod. It would open up a whole new range of sounds that the EPI could produce!

MikeA
12-10-2008, 03:03 PM
Okay folks, the site rated "X" that I'm listing here...."X" for eXtreme. I've only included a few of my favorites and there will be more to come:

CLICK HERE (http://mvabercrombie.net/Guitar%20Eye%20Candy/Guitar%20Eye%20Candy.html)

MikeA
12-26-2008, 10:47 PM
Moderators:

I am not sure of the policy of The Border concerning links to other forums so if this is out of order here, accept my appologies and feel free to censor the link.

I ain't sellin' nuthin'

I've started a topic on my little forum where I have been putting together some documentation that beginning guitar players might find helpful. No, let me change that statement....if you don't already KNOW this information I'll guarantee you that it will be very helpful!

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Forum

Look under "Musicians" / "Music Theory and Scales"

I started putting it together for myself. It happened when I wanted to know more about guitar scales than just finding them somewhere on the internet an memorizing them. I wanted to transcribe from a Minor Pentatonic into a Major Pentatonic and couldn't find anything about the "whys and wherefores"....just a "here is what you want" or shift down 3 frets or something like that.

So I decided it was high time I learned a little bit about the building blocks of MUSIC; The SCALES.

What I've done is started from scratch and from the twelve tones, explained in layman's terminology how to derive a Major Scale from any key. And then how to derive the Minor Scale from that key and then the Pentatonic Major and Minor Scales in that key! And, believe it or not, it actually makes sense!

I'm not bragging, but I've looked at books and internet articles for years but until I sat down and tried to piece it all together, it just didn't make any sense to me. Now it does.

I've included some "visuals" to go alone with it....some of the Scales presented in "pattern form" and will be adding more. I have a diagram of all the notes and their locations on the neck. And I've started a little bit of a thread on some Blues Guitar.

All of this I'll be adding to as I have time to assemilate it.

If you are interested in this, you are invited to look at it, copy it, keep it, give it to folks....I don't care. If anyone finds it of use, you are welcome to it. Of course the disclaimer is that to most people, it is safe, but one can overdose on it and if such is the case, the author accepts no responsibility for it!

The topics concerning the "information" described are locked and pinned, but the forum is open in that category for questions and answers. Well, questions anyway....I am not a musician. I'm just a hack trying to teach himself and one who would welcome others to come along and learn with him or teach him!

wsccg
12-26-2008, 11:19 PM
Hi Mike,

It sounds very interesting! I think I'm a bit thick though because I couldn't find it on the site. I did see the forums and went through them all, but didn't see the Musician topic or section. Sorry to be a bother, but can you direct me? I'd love to see your research as that is the kind of stuff that has always seemed very "foreign language" to me and would love to get some clarification! :) Thank you!

wsccg
12-26-2008, 11:22 PM
Never mind, I think I found it. Thank you though!!!

Ive always been a dreamer
12-27-2008, 02:13 AM
Mike - We don't have a problem with you linking to other sites. There are no rules on The Border regarding posting links as long as the site doesn't contain offensive content as described in our terms of service.

Mrs Henley
12-27-2008, 02:17 AM
Mike, maybe for the next time: it would be a lot easier for us if you put the link of the topic here and just not the link of the entire forum..it's a little bit confusing.

MikeA
12-27-2008, 04:15 AM
Mike, maybe for the next time: it would be a lot easier for us if you put the link of the topic here and just not the link of the entire forum..it's a little bit confusing.


I could do that, but the way I have the security access on the forum set up, when "guests" come in to the forum, all they can see is the "General" category.

I require that people request access to the rest of the forums ("Golf", "Music" and my forum on "Gambling").

I'm not after building up a lot of members. I pretty much want to "know" who it is that I'm allowing in. Of course, anyone who is a contributor here on "The Border" will be given access as soon as I check in to it and see them.

Ticky can activate you too on the forums. She's one of my Moderators.

MikeA
12-27-2008, 04:16 AM
Never mind, I think I found it. Thank you though!!!

WSCCG, you are activated now. WELCOME.

wsccg
12-27-2008, 02:16 PM
Thanks Mike and Ticky!!

MikeA
12-27-2008, 04:08 PM
You are welcome! I'll be adding scales to finish out the complete Blues Scales in all keys, the will start on the Major Pentatonic and then on to the 7 Major and then into Modal Theory (Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian).

Music is facinating to investigate as well as appreciate (or play for that matter)! I wish that I had started this 50 years ago!

Now, this is not "lecture". WSCCG....I hope you will contribute! Anyone else of like mind as well!

While this type discussion probably isn't alligned with the scope of this forum, I think the technical arena will compliment The Border for those who are interested.

And if the preference is that I move it over here, then I can certainly do that. My intent has never been to "hide" anything or "recruit" visitors. Heck, the way I have my forum set up, it discourages visitors and that wasn't accomplished by accident.

Glennsallnighter
12-28-2008, 07:28 PM
I've just registered Mike!

MikeA
12-28-2008, 08:09 PM
I've just registered Mike!

Excellent! You're authorized to the "Music" forum. Let me know if you want to get into the "Golf" or "Gambling" part. I've been adding a lot to the Scale and Theory sections. Look around. Questions and Contributions are extremely solicited!

MikeA
12-28-2008, 08:42 PM
I'm copying a user review of an amplifier that I am thinking very seriously about buying. They retail for $277 and shipping is included in that price. The thing is, it is a Pure Tube amp with two preamp tubes and two power tubes in the final! The 10" speaker is a point of concern from just about all who reviewed the amp, but I have a Bose cabinet with an 8" bass and two 3-1/2" reflecting tweeters that should cover me if I don't like the 10". Celestion speakers that some folks used in this amp sell for around $50 so it wouldn't break me to put one of them in.

One of the very nice things about Tube Amps is that you can experiment with the sound by changing the tubes in the pre amp section and the final power section. Several mods were listed documenting the change certain tubes can make in this little bad boy.

The claim is that it is a 25-watt RMS amp. For a tube amp, that is a pretty moderate rating but compares to power listing of twice that in Solid State Amps.

BUT IT IS A TUBE AMP! Not a hybrid with tube in the preamp section and solid state for the final! There is a picture of the amp at the end of this post after the review.

Product: Johnson JA-T25-R Loredo Combo
Price Paid: USD 199
Submitted 09/08/2007 at 02:20pm by Layne

Features http://www.harmony-central.com/Pix/help-small.jpg: 10

This is Johnson's first tube amp and what a tube amp! I was looking to buy a Peavey Delta Blues or Classic 30 till I came across this Johnson Loredo and I'm glad I did! I was very willing to pay the $277 price you can get at most places that carry this amp, but was lucky to find a demo unit on Ebay for $199 with free shipping. :-)

Johnson's an American company, but the amp is manufactured in China to Johnson's specs.

The amp features:
25 watts (I think that's peak watts. It's more like 15 watts continuous I believe)
2 - Sovtek 12AX7-WA preamp tubes (with tube retainers!)
2 - Electro Harmonix EL-84 power tubes (with tube retainer!)
10" Alphatone speaker
Accutronics spring reverb (3 springs I think)
Approx. 25 lbs.
Approx. 1/2" thick chipboard cabinet
Metal corner bracket protectors.
Dark brown tolex
Tan speaker grill cloth
Plastic carry strap
Rubber feet

The front panel left to right goes:
1/4" input jack
Gain knob
Bass tone knob
Middle tone knob
Treble tone knob
Reverb knob
Master knob
1/4" footswitch jack for reverb
Red power light
Stand-by swtich
Power switch

Back panel features left to right:
Fuse socket
IEC type power cord socket
Wet/Dry control knob
1/4" effects loop in
1/4" effects loop out
1/4" external speaker out

I was surprised to find when I got this amp that the control knobs are made of knurled metal and not plastic. The power/stand by switches are metal Switchcraft type toggle swtiches too. This lends a nice solid feel to the amp. The only thing that cheapens the amp is the plastic carry strap but that's no big deal. It can always be replaced with a leather or wooden handle. I love the vintage look and feel of this amp. In fact, a friend of mine asked if it was vintage. Cool. The workmanship on this amp is excellent. Switches are solid and knobs are smooth.

This amp is pretty versatile. It's a great practice amp that's not too heavy to carry around. It's loud enough for small gigs too. I don't miss a gain channel has I have an overdrive pedal. In fact, I prefer this setup. I'd rather save money not having an additional channel or two and adding what effects pedals I want to the effects loop. This amp can go from clean Jazz to Country to Heavy Metal.

The one thing that the more expensive Peavey Classic 30 and Fender Blues/Pro Jr. lack that this amp has is a stand-by switch. That's a feature I think all tube amps in this power class and above should have.

Sound Quality http://www.harmony-central.com/Pix/help-small.jpg: 10

Okay, I've held off writing this review till I had some time with this amp and made some mods. This amp was a demo unit before I got it so the speaker and tubes were well broken in before I got it. I do think most people write reviews too soon before the speaker and tubes have a chance to break in.

Out of the box this amp sounds very good clean and at lower volumes. With the master turned all the way up and the guitar volume all the way up this amp can get very very loud. I'd say as loud as a 50 watt solid state amp.

After having the amp for some time I've made two recent mods. First mod was to change out the two stock Sovtek 12AX7-WA preamp tubes with Tung Sol reissues. The Tung Sol tubes are much quieter (hum), smoother, have more gain, have more detail and are slightly darker than the Sovteks. I love these Tung Sol 12AX7s! Actually I'd describe the Sovteks as slightly bright and the Tung Sols as more neutral in tone. Also, not mentioned much but of significant importance, is that the Johnson comes with tube retainers to reduce/minimize microphonics. A small detail that makes a significant difference in sound, that doesn't cost much, which a lot of amps in this price range and above lack!! It's really a no-brainer...any combo amp in this power range and that mount their tubes upside down should especially have retainers.

The second mod was to change out the speaker. The stock Alphatone speaker is okay for practice and such. It has a chimey, reedy tone which is nice, but it does lack a bit in the bass. With the amp cranked all the way up the speaker gets a bit muddy. Detail is also not too good in that the reverb doesn't sound like it should. I just installed a 10" Weber Vintage Series 10F150-T-8 25 watt speaker with light dope as recommended by Ted Weber himself. I emailed him requesting a speaker with good tone balance from top to bottom. WOW! The amp now has balls and guts!! The Weber's magnet is easily twice as big as the Alphatone's. Beware when installing this speaker as the entire metal basket is magnetized and can attract your metal tools causing you to accidentally ding, or worse, punch a hole in the speaker cone if you're not careful! I almost did this...twice! doh. This Weber speaker rocks. The amp is louder, has more bass without giving up nice treble, and with more detail. Overdrive has a creamier texture and the reverb sounds really really good now.

I figure even if I paid the full selling price dealers are asking for this amp (around $277 - $300) with these two mods (at around $150) I've got a better amp than a Fender Blues/Pro Jr. or Peavey Classic 30 that has more/better features and great tone.

Also, I bought a Johnson 1 - button footswitch for around $10 on Ebay for the reverb. Any generic 1 - button footswitch will work. Would be nice if Johnson included this, but it's no big deal. Other amp amnufacturers charge more for their's.

Reliability http://www.harmony-central.com/Pix/help-small.jpg: 10

This amp is built really well and should last a long time if you take care of it like anything else. The toggle switches are solid. I like the metal knobs. They won't crack or break like plastic ones could. The only thing that worries me is the plastic carry strap. I'll change that out for a leather one or maybe make a nice wooden one myself. Other than that this amp should hold up well.

Customer Support http://www.harmony-central.com/Pix/help-small.jpg: No Opinion

I haven't needed to contact Johnson so far. The amp has a 5 year warranty.

Overall Rating http://www.harmony-central.com/Pix/help-small.jpg: 10

Johnson has a winner on their hands and this amp is a keeper. Stock, they made a really nice sleeper of an amp and with the simple mods I made I have a KILLER sleeper amp. It's a great starter amp for practice and small venues. If you need more volume just run a line out or mic it.

If it were lost or stolen I'd get another easily. Heck, at this price you could buy two and run a stereo set up without breaking the bank.

http://johnsongtr.com/fileadmin/Johnson/Images_Big/JA-T25-R-Big.jpg

MikeA
12-29-2008, 08:49 AM
Back to reality....Instead of showing what I WANT, I'll show you what Miles ended up with. He'd been playing Ukeleles since they were small enough for him. But he's growing and it was high time he had his own gitter! He still doesn't have the "holding" of it down pat but loves to play it! I could have just gotten a stand for him, but thought that the wall hanger would work better...I think I was right. What amazed me was that after I told him to always put his pick back in the window seal, he was anal about it! He still hasn't lost that pick!
:rockguitar:

Ive always been a dreamer
12-29-2008, 11:46 AM
Very cute, Mike - looks like a budding Joe Walsh to me! :wink:

MikeA
12-29-2008, 12:37 PM
Very cute, Mike - looks like a budding Joe Walsh to me! :wink:

That's funny! Yesterday, Miles was making lots of noise on the little ax but was strumming with an "up stroke" and was hitting the unprotected wood instead of the pickguard. He KNOWS who Joe Walsh is! So I told him that he needed to strum DOWN from the bass "E" to the high "e" instead of striking the high "e" first because that's the way Joe Walsh plays!

What did he say? "Grandpa, I'm not Joe Walsh, I'm Miles!"

I shut up and let him play it HIS WAY :guitar:

TimothyBFan
12-29-2008, 12:59 PM
You've been told Grandpa! :hand:

ticky
12-30-2008, 12:05 AM
Hey Mike??

Umm.. just wondering,, what up with the pentagram and the beer bottles on Mile's easel?? *G* something you wanna share with us?

MikeA
12-30-2008, 12:21 AM
Hey Mike??

Umm.. just wondering,, what up with the pentagram and the beer bottles on Mile's easel?? *G* something you wanna share with us?

He's EVIL!!!!

You probably wouldn't believe me if I told you. His dad brews beet as a hobby. Miles fills the bottles with marbles and also, with bead necklesses that are piled up in that tray on the chalkboard.

Miles learned shapes when he was not much over a year old. He knew triangle. He knew circle, square, rectangle, ball, box and star too.

I was showing him he could make a star out of two triangles. :blush:

ticky
12-30-2008, 01:02 PM
He's EVIL!!!!

You probably wouldn't believe me if I told you. His dad brews beet as a hobby. Miles fills the bottles with marbles and also, with bead necklesses that are piled up in that tray on the chalkboard.

Miles learned shapes when he was not much over a year old. He knew triangle. He knew circle, square, rectangle, ball, box and star too.

I was showing him he could make a star out of two triangles. :blush:

"Okay Miles, draw Grandpa a BIG circle! Good.. now put a Star in the middle! GOOD boy! now Call Satan!!"

hehehehehehe

MikeA
12-30-2008, 01:13 PM
"Okay Miles, draw Grandpa a BIG circle! Good.. now put a Star in the middle! GOOD boy! now Call Satan!!"

hehehehehehe

Almost....however it should be:

Draw a Big Circle
Put a Star in the Middle
Take a pull off of a Beer
Then call Satan!

Though why he'd want to call Don Felder, I don't know? :rofl:

MikeA
02-06-2009, 01:32 PM
I've been watching eBay like a hawk while trying to convince myself that first, I needed a new amp and secondly, if I got one, what would it be?

I made that final decision last Friday and ordered the Vox AD30VT Valvetronix amp. It's a hybrid that has a Solid State Pre-Amp section and a Tube Power Amp Section. Amazing sound. I'd "auditioned" it at a local guitar shop.

I ordered it from a dealer in San Diego called "Music Power". Gosh, I can hardly help but recommend them if you have any music "hardware" needs. The amp was a full $50 less there than anywhere else I checked. It was packed with air bags and arrived in perfect condition. The box appears to have never been opened and the amp, when removed, shows ZERO signs of wear (like a refurbished one would show).

With ELEVEN different amp models to chose (twelve if you bypass all of them and just use the VOX sound) and with ELEVEN different effects like Chorus, Flange, Reverb and Compression and WAH-WAH....the potential for sound is pretty amazing in an amp this inexpensive.

One of the big problems with Tube amps is that to get the full saturation of sound you really have to crank up the volume to run the tubes at full effectiveness. That's not the case with this particular VOX. It has a little knob in the back called an attentuator that cuts the power down from it's rated 30 watts to as low as like .6 watts so that you can crank the two volume knobs (master and channel) all the way up to saturate the tube. You can get the "sweet sounds" at low volumes!

I have had very little time to play with the amp. Work you know <sigh>. But it's sitting there all pretty and even turned off, it's LOUD. I can hear it hollering at me "COME PLAY ME N O W !!!!"

ticky
02-12-2009, 05:15 PM
I wasnt sure where else this might go, so Im putting it here. A friend of mine who teaches guitar, banged out the chords for Comin Down by Joe Walsh for me. It's really simple and SUCH a beautiful song.

She said the strum was off but I just use my own pattern anyway.

Cominí Down
By: Joe Walsh (Fingerpick chords, thumb (bass note) then 1st, 2nd, 3rd fingers on 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings)

Em D C C
Coming down, coming round to see ya

G G D
To see if maybe you know who I am

Em D C C
Coming down coming round to see ya

G G/D
Me again



Em D C C
Iím coming down, coming round to see ya

G G D
To see if maybe you know who I am

Em D C
Coming down, coming round to see ya

G
Me again

*C chord with 1st finger lifted (fingerpicking) 5th and 2nd strings together, then 3rd, 4th, 3rd, repeat; hold down B note on 5th string (2nd fret) and play 5th and 2nd strings together then 3rd 4th, 3rd (open), repeat, hold down C note on 2nd string (1st fret) E note on 4th string (2nd fret) and play 5th and 2nd strings, 3rd, 4th, 3rd repeat and play same fingerpicking style but include the 6th string (open); and (*)repeat from beginning.

MikeA
02-12-2009, 06:48 PM
It's Tricky Ticky, getting those chords lined up over the lyrics.

MikeA
03-18-2009, 04:22 PM
Another "gear" conundrum.

I've been recording some guitar stuff through my sound card's "line-in" straight from the amp and also, some mic'd into the microphone input on the sound card.

Neither is at all satisfactory. Not only does it not sound like what was coming out of my amp, but in addition, it is seriously "peaking" over the maximum recording levels causing both clipping and also unwanted distortion. It is heavily balanced to saturating the entire recording with bass.

It's the sound card. This much I know for fact.

The question is, what have any of you done to overcome this? It seems that there are two methods. The first is to get a sound card that really has the design in it to handling recording. Garden Variety sound cards do wonderfully for playback, but simply are not designed for serious recording. The input works fine for speech in audio chats, but definitely not hi-fi enough for musical capture. Do you have a recommendation for any specific sound cards that will not break the bank? I saw one by M-Audio that was around $200.00.

The other option might be a an audio interface device. These are, in effect, devices that handle all of the audio and completely bypass the sound card. The plug into the USB ports typically and some of them have really good reviews. I'm leaning in that direction for two reasons.

First is that some of these interfaces are well below that $200 price tag of the M-Audio card. Yamaha makes a device called Audiogram. They make two of them, a 6-input one and a 3-input one. The three-input device would serve my needs adequately if it really does what it is supposed to do! The bad thing is that I can't find a real "review" on it anywhere. That really surprised me when I couldn't find one on Harmony Central! They review EVERYTHING there. Maybe this device is just too new.

The other reason to give consideration to the Interface device is that it makes portable recording possible. That just means that I can use it on my desktop with my amp or take it along with my notebook computer and just plug straight into it and record "on-the-go".

Any ideas or recommendations? I'm not Joe Walsh and never will be, but I do enjoy playing around with these toys and the ability to "show" someone how to do something on guitar with a recording is a bit of fun too. In addition, a friend of mine is getting "plugged in" and we were talking about exchanging compositions and adding our parts to it. I believe the Eagles did something like that with "The Long Run" when Glenn "mailed" his parts in to have them mixed in with what the others had done in the studio.

Maleah
04-01-2009, 10:41 PM
So I've been thinking about getting a new acoustic/electric at some point here. Does anybody know what model of Takamine Don plays? You know....the "who's guitar is this?" guitar. ;) I looked for it on the Takamine website and the only one I can find with the cutaway and color is this one... http://www.takamine.com/?fa=detail&mid=2036&sid=525

However, when I clicked the "buy now" out of curiosity to find the price....the first (and only) site I clicked on had it for $250. Now...there's just no way that Don plays a $250 acoustic/electric! lol ...........right? lol!

ticky
04-01-2009, 10:57 PM
OO OOO OOO!! Maleah!!! Don and I play the same guitar!! well except his is proly a lot fancier then mine and I know his is an electric accoustic and his is brown, but it's a Tak G-series concert cut away. It's very pretty and has amazing tone. If you're like me and not a long armed, long fingered person, the smaller concert size is perfect to hold. It fits! Mine has a red finish and Don's had a brown finish and I can tell you I paid about $230.00 for it. The electric acoustic's are a bit more. As far as electric guitars, Im not sure what Don would normally play, but I have seen him play fenders and Gibson Les Paul's, which is also one of the guitars Glenn and Joe play. (Tim usually plays a carvin bass)
this is mine..
http://www.takamine.com/pics/models/g260cwr_sm.jpg (http://www.takamine.com/?fa=detail&mid=2036&sid=525)

Maleah
04-02-2009, 12:32 AM
OO OOO OOO!! Maleah!!! Don and I play the same guitar!! well except his is proly a lot fancier then mine and I know his is an electric accoustic and his is brown, but it's a Tak G-series concert cut away. It's very pretty and has amazing tone. If you're like me and not a long armed, long fingered person, the smaller concert size is perfect to hold. It fits! Mine has a red finish and Don's had a brown finish and I can tell you I paid about $230.00 for it. The electric acoustic's are a bit more. As far as electric guitars, Im not sure what Don would normally play, but I have seen him play fenders and Gibson Les Paul's, which is also one of the guitars Glenn and Joe play. (Tim usually plays a carvin bass)
this is mine..


LOL Ticky! I thought Don's was reddish too? Geez I must be REALLY color blind! LOL! How pathetic :D And I'm definently not a long-fingered person! Hmmm...I'm definently going to have to look into this one further! I really do want the a/e version though because it's really nice to be able to plug it in sometimes.

Don definently seems to play Fender Telecasters for the majority of the time as far as electrics go. Which I would ALSO like to get! ;) :hilarious:

Shouldn't they still have the actual electric acoustic version somewhere on the site though? Am I just missing it???? Or is it THAT one and they just have a more expensive alternative made just for them? lol

Maleah
04-02-2009, 12:39 AM
Also...just out of curiosity ;) .....does anyone know what the brand of the congo's that they play at the shows is? I know they have the DW drums but not a clue for the congo/percussion set.

ticky
04-02-2009, 12:42 AM
I'd love to have an electric someday but this is closer to what I want
http://fretboardmag.com/images/epiphone-broadway.jpg
or I'd settle for
http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/00037134.jpg

but first I'll learn to play what I have, then I'll move on *G*

Maleah
04-02-2009, 12:51 AM
Weeeell.....if we're talking what we WANT...... ;)

I want a Les Paul....I'd settle for the Epiphone version since the Gibson will never be in my price range. lol

I want a Fender Jazz bass - 4 string

And I either want a Takamine or Taylor acoustic electric or electric acoustic....whichever wording works ;)

Maleah
04-02-2009, 12:52 AM
Oh yes......I also want congo drums! :hilarious:

I've been playing around with them everytime I go into the local music store. They're so much FUN! lol

Maleah
04-02-2009, 01:06 AM
Ticky I'm assuming this is the acoustic electric version? http://www.takamine.com/?fa=detail&mid=2313&sid=525

The price went up to like $320 or $350 on this one

ticky
04-02-2009, 01:19 AM
yep, that looks like it be the one *G*

As for the Les Paul *G* ya gotta love it. they are SO much fun to play with. SOMEday... The Epi's, i just love the looks of the Archtops and someday I wanna learn how to play em too!! *G*

MikeA
04-02-2009, 09:14 AM
Weeeell.....if we're talking what we WANT...... ;)
............................
And I either want a Takamine or Taylor acoustic electric or electric acoustic....whichever wording works ;)

If you ever do seriously consider the upper-end acoustics like "Taylor" do yourself a favor and find someone who will let you play a "Gallagher". I've had the privilege of playing one and alternating with a "Taylor". The "Taylor" sounded to .. hmmm .. "bell like". The Gallagher was more mellow. The guy that had both guitars and stepped on the Taylor and broken the neck. He had the guitar repaired at the factory (Perfect repair...actually, I think they just replaced the guitar!) but he knew it had been destroyed and bought the Gallagher and was trying to sell me the Taylor. Instead, I bought my Seagull from him.

I'm in no hurry to do anything about replacing my Seagull though.

I'm a little skeptical of all those on-board equalizers and built in tuners on acoustic guitars though. My father-in-law has a "Silvertone" that has that package and even new, it didn't work right.

I'm more old school I guess. Since I do have an acoustic amp, I like just the straight peizio under the bridge passive pickup. Let the guitar worry about producing tone and let the pickup and amp handle the other stuff. Or, just a sound-hole pickup that you can remove when you don't want to plug in.

But I do recommend getting an acoustic that has some kind of pickup whether it's an add on unit after the fact or a built in pickup. If you are planning on getting an amp, then "any" kind of pickup will suffice. But if you do not plan on getting an amp, then get one that has an active pickup driven by batteries (usually a square 9 vdc).

If you're reading this note then very likely you have a computer <LOL> and these days, virtually every computer has a sound card with a "line-in". With an "active" pickup, you will probably have enough power from the guitar to plug straight into the sound card and either amplify the sound through your computer or even record with it. Some of the "passive" pickups do not have enough power to do that without going through some sort of amp to kick the signal strength up. My Seagull doesn't have the raw power to go straight into a computer....but I can peal paint with it plugged into my Acoustic Amp!

I've got to confess. I'm getting hooked on recording for the sake of recording! It's a BLAST! It was something I really could afford to do "way back when". The gear was just too expensive. But with the increases horsepower in computers these days, recording is not that expensive!

I have an audio interface "in the mail" now that completely bypasses the sound card on the computer by exchanging the information with the recording software via USB. This gives a much more "live" sound than the sound card's input. Truely, the computer sound cards are made for "PLAYBACK" and very little expense was spared on the mic-in and line-in ports and circuitry...just enough to allow input of a cheap mic for Voice Chatting.

The interface comes with software to record and introduce some 80 amps, speaker cabs, and effects. Very inexpensive. Under $100.

I have a small mixing board that my Father-in-law wasn't using. And I had a matched pair of microphones from LONG AGO. And it is a blast. Here's a little riff that you may recognize.
http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Fastlane2.mp3
But if you think I could just plug in and play that sucker like that you would be flattering me! It took a few takes and I had to cut and paste to get the best of several passes hooked together for a flawless run. So to Joe I say "What you lack in talent, you can copy with technology" <LOL>

I recorded that riff using my Frankenstrat set on all pickups with the tone control turned down. I plugged into my VOX with an amp model that used a Fender "Blackface" with a 4x12 speaker cab. I cranked the "reverb" up all the way and lowered the output from the mixing board so that it didn't overdrive the line-in on the sound card.

I captured the tracks using the freeware opensource software "Audacity". I used Audacity to capture several tracks and cut and pasted until I had a run that had no blatant errors in it. Then I had to speed it up to get it close to as fast as Joe plays it. Now what amazes me is that Joe plays this LIVE and repeats it flawlessly maybe a thousand times <LOL> during live performances! It gives me yet another greater respect for his artistry! And I was joking when I said that what some can do with skill and talent, anyone can do with technology. You CAN'T. But you can have fun trying!

Maleah
04-12-2009, 03:46 PM
Ticky I thought you would be interested in knowing that I emailed Takamine and asked them what guitar Don uses and this is the picture that they sent me and the reply.....

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/bannerland/dhenley.jpg

Look familiar? ;)


Here's what they said:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am attaching a photo of the guitar I think you are asking about. Don is using the EF108WR which is discontinued.

It was an FXC body style in wine red with a CT4B-II preamp.

Here is a link to the FXC body styles Takamine has now.

http://www.takamine.com/?fa=searchfxc (http://www.takamine.com/?fa=searchfxc)

You might also want to look into the NEX body style if you are looking for a small body guitar.

Thank you and hope this helps."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did a little research on that guitar and it's at LEAST $1700! :shock:

ticky
04-12-2009, 04:32 PM
YEEOWCH!!! $1700?? eeesh! I paid $245 for mine on sale but it's not electric or have the pick ups that one has. *G* It's purdy tho, isnt it? this is mine
http://www.takamine.com/pics/models/g260cwr_lg.jpg likes a lot like that one, but. like I said, no preamp, no pick up

Maleah
04-12-2009, 04:39 PM
Does yours have the two pegs to attach the strap to? Or just one and then you have to tie the other end on?

ticky
04-12-2009, 04:42 PM
just the one and I tie it onto the neck above the nut(I guess that'd be the head)

Troubadour
04-12-2009, 04:46 PM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/bannerland/dhenley.jpg



I did a little research on that guitar and it's at LEAST $1700! :shock:


$1700? I'd want the guy thrown in, too!

Maleah
04-12-2009, 05:04 PM
LOL I hear ya Troub! But then, I knew that if Don was playing it then it had to be an expensive guitar. If you were to buy a bass like Tim's you'd be paying well over $1,000 these days as well. Same with Glenn's Takamine A/E.


Ticky that is definently a beautiful guitar! If I buy one though, which I'm STRONGLY thinking about it, I would need the acoustic/electric version and I would need to put strap locks or something on there because I just can't do the tie thing. lol I really wanted to get one just like Don's because I just love that guitar but I just can't afford over $1,000! I may have saved up for it if it would have been $800ish, but not at this rate! lol!

eaglesvet
04-12-2009, 07:18 PM
$1700? I'd want the guy thrown in, too!
Ah, if that's the case, just keep the guitar then.

Maleah
04-12-2009, 09:35 PM
:hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: Too funny guys :thumbsup:

MikeA
04-13-2009, 07:38 AM
Well, the "button" at the base of the guitar is actually a plugin for the cord to the amp on that model Tak.

But I think it pretty wild that they'd put a "button" on the base of the body of an acoustic that has no pickups and neglect to put one on the neck where it joins the body. Strange.

MikeA
06-08-2009, 05:05 PM
You guys are sparred the agony of listening to me learning to play a trap set! I saw a 5-pad electronic drum kit on eBay with a starting bid of $39 plus $15 shipping. I put in a $50 bid thinking I might steal it but someone ended up getting it for $56. It had 1 hi-hat cymbal, 1 Crash/Ride cymbal, one snare, two rack mounted toms and one floor tom. The bass was just a pedal with no pad.

I'm NOT a drummer. But I did play concert snare and Toms in a marching band in high school. I didn't play them well <LOL> But, my attitude has changed a bit since then and I struggle to find grooves to play guitar against. It would be so much nicer if I could just lay down basic grooves to replace a metronome ticking away in the background!

I like the electronic concept with drums. You can slip on a set of headphones and not disturb anyone else in the house or really not even in the same room while doing serious damage to your own eardrums (no pun intended!).

I like the idea of having a selection of voices for each pad. I like the fact that you can play tracks both with and without the drum track while learning. The one that I was looking at came with two pedals, one for the kick bass and the other for the hi-hat. You get the feel of an acoustic kit without having restrictions on when you play them (noise level again).

I'm not giving up on the idea of getting a kit but it may be a while. In the meantime, I do have a Boss Dr. Rhythm drum machine and with it, I can tap out a groove but it's like doing it on a computer keyboard. Not at all the same feel or result.

MikeA
06-14-2009, 01:07 PM
When we were joking around about forming a "Border Band" didn't someone say they were a drummer?

I'm sort of serious about taking up drums, at least enough to lay down a rhythm track to play guitar over.

Acoustic drums are "out of the question". Too loud. I'm thinking about getting some thing like a Yamaha DD-60 or DD-65. Self contained units that are about 24" wide and around 16" deep and have 7 or 8 pads on them that can be defined as whatever you want them to be.

The nice thing about them is that they are for all intents and purposes "silent". You can monitor them with headphones, use the built in speakers or run them into either your computer or into an amplifier.

I'd be very interested in what sort of "kit" any of you might be using.

MikeA
06-15-2009, 11:28 AM
Cross your fingers for me. I have a Snipe in on a drum pad that ends at around 11:15am CDT today. My bid is still higher than the highest made so far, but if I win this thing, it will be a STEAL.

MikeA
06-16-2009, 11:20 AM
Been thinking about percussion. It is hard and time consuming to locate a drum pattern that fits a particular song you are working on with a guitar. I have a Boss Dr. Rhythm machine but it is so ill adapted to tapping out a rhythm that it is virtually useless. So much easier would be to be able to just crank up a metronome and pound out a beat on a real set of drums.

However, a "real" set of acoustic drums are so loud that it would drive everyone in the house and most of the neighbors to running for cover...or kicking you completely into next week!

The answer: Digital or Electronic Drums. When they first came out, they were pretty much a joke or something for kids to play with. They were used a lot in Hip Hop with the drums dialed into have a sound that was anything but that which you would expect a drum to produce!

But they have come a long way and come in about three varieties.

The top of the line digital drums are made by Roland and Yamaha and consist of drum heads that are three-dimensional just like an acoustic drum. In fact, they are acoustic in a sense, but they all have "triggers" on them that picks up the sound, routes it through a "drum brain" which applies the digital sound you have chosen. That sound can be cymbals, snares, toms, bass, bells, whatever! They have the look and feel of a real acoustic drum set except for the bass drum which is much smaller than an acoustic kick bass. These "kits" can cost several thousand dollars.

The next level of digital drums is basically the same as the one already described except the drum pads are just that...PADS. The function is the same though and one of the perks of these type drum kits is that the unamplified sound is virtually unheard unless you are listening with a set of headphones. That's the beauty of this configuration....You can pound to your heart's content without disturbing anyone! The cost is usually much less than the professional level kits but can still run into the thousands.

The third type digital drum kit is a bit different and at first glance, do look like some sort of child's toy. They are usually configured as 6" and less diameter pads built into a platform unit that is around 26" wide, maybe 10" in height and are around 18" deep. The "platform" for these contains everything except the pedals to control the hi-hat cymbal and the kick bass. They contain speakers, output jacks for headphones and some have either USB or MIDI outputs for capturing the performance into a computer. They usually contain from 4 to 8 pads and each pad is configurable though most people will configure one as a snare, 3 as toms, and then maybe a hi-hat cymbal, a ride cymbal and a crash cymbal with maybe a bell tossed in on one of the pads. The foot pedals can be defined as any sound in the library but are usually defined as either the controller for the cymbal and the other for the kick bass, or possible as a double kick with both being assigned as a "bass" sound.

Actually the sound on the self contained units isn't that bad. You don't get the complete feel of an acoustic drum set because the pads are smaller in diameter than real drums and they are not arranged in the same configuration as an acoustic or even digital component drums, but you can get the full results of an acoustic set for the most part. There are things you might not be able to do with these that you can with the other type sets...like rim-shots and cross hits and choking the cymbals, but they can solve the problem of someone who is just wanting to lay down a good rhythm track to accompany a guitar practice or recording session. The cost of these units is up around $250 for the better ones.

I'm hoping to land a good deal off of eBay for a used one to both decide whether I want to pursue drums as an instrument but also to work up some background beats for playing over with my guitars.

Ive always been a dreamer
06-16-2009, 01:48 PM
Good luck, Mike in finding exactly what you are looking for on ebay for the right price. Crossing my fingers for ya!

MikeA
06-16-2009, 02:06 PM
Good luck, Mike in finding exactly what you are looking for on ebay for the right price. Crossing my fingers for ya!

For my wife's sake, you might hope more validly that I do NOT find what I'm really after! A trap set that fills my basement....and I don't even know how to play drums so you can imagine the beautiful (to me) noise...KA BAM!!!!!

MikeA
06-16-2009, 04:03 PM
Got my drums!

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/VP_Screens/MikeA/jun25002.jpg

Edited::: eBay removed the image. So, this is the actual set.

Prettymaid
06-16-2009, 05:44 PM
Yea! Mike got his drums! And for a decent price too! They're purty! :headbang:

MikeA
06-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Well, they are discontinued by Yamaha and there are about three versions out now since those were sold, but they should accomplish my goal of being able to beat out a rhythm. Notice I said "goal!" If I flop on them, I can always torture Amanda by giving them to Miles <LOL>

Here's the pic from the eBay auction:

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/richardco/.mids/YamahaDD50.jpg

Prettymaid
06-16-2009, 06:03 PM
I hope they serve their purpose for you!

Troubadour
06-16-2009, 06:07 PM
Hope you have fun with 'em! Glad you got a good deal.

MikeA
06-16-2009, 09:09 PM
Crackin' Up Here! <LOL> Yeah, no doubt I'll have fun with them. I have another challenge in front of me with them. I mean, I know I can come out of the headphone jack and into an amp or into my USP audio interface and possibly even into my sound mixer.

But I have a more elemental challenge. How in the heck am I going to set these things up in my cramped "studio"? Need to get them at the right height and get the correct tilt on them. I'm thinking about making some sort of platform that I can attach the module to so that I can use the back of a chair to get the right angle with. I have no idea how I'm going to accomplish that until I get the drum set in my hands and can look it over.

I've joked with Ticky about having to move everything out of my office and into the main part of the basement to make room. I have a 12'x12' office in my basement and in that office, I have a large desk with my personal computer taking up nearly all the available footprint on it with the scanner, printer, monitor, keyboard, CPU and my Rhythm Machine, Sound Board and USB interface. That doesn't count the quad speaker system with a subwoofer and my cordless headphone receiver!

Then I have a computer hutch housing my work computer and monitor and speaker system. In addition to all that, I have three tall bookcases and a metal storage bin plus a two drawer file cabinet.

Then I have three guitar amplifiers, a modular dual cassette player plus my three guitars conveniently set up. In other words, it takes a lot of resolve to even get into my office and plopped into my desk chair!

Where in the world am I going to be able to set up this drum set? Hmmmm, it does good to moan about things! If I get rid of the dual casette I should be able to redesign the shelf it is on and mount the drums THERE! Yeah! That'll work!

Prettymaid
06-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Mike, you need to think like an Eagle...build a studio onto your house!;)

Ive always been a dreamer
06-16-2009, 09:24 PM
:yay: Mike!

Good job and you won't even have to take out a loan to pay for them. I'm sure you'll make space for them somewhere. Perhaps, Verna can free up some space for you by getting rid of some of her girly girl stuff. :lol:

MikeA
06-16-2009, 09:30 PM
As long as I stay in the basement, Verna doesn't give me a lot of grief over the equipment I put together so long as it doesn't tear our budget up too much...and doesn't burst her eardrums!

I couldn't add another room onto the house Cathy, but I could do like some others I've known. They've built "shops" which were reported to be places to store lawnmowers and to work on cars. Funny how they become insulated with power and secured with alarm systems. You look inside and see keyboards, computers, guitars and amps and often drum kits!

At my age, success is defined not by how rich and famous one might aspire to be but rather by how much enjoyment one can reap from the effort. And talent aside (and it HAS to be set aside!), it is undoubtedly one of the most enjoyable things I've done. Putting together something that actually works has been and continues to be rewarding. Especially if you can do it on a tight budget!

Only GOLF holds a candle to it and GOLF is not a year-round venture where MUSIC is!

Prettymaid
06-17-2009, 07:40 AM
I kinda know how you feel Mike. Several years ago before I met Hubby my spare room had a keyboard and a double cassette recorder in it. I would spend hours practicing vocals with the keyboard (which has built in percussion BTW) and then recording myself!

TimothyBFan
06-17-2009, 08:16 AM
Wow Mike---Tho I don't know much about them, that seems like a really good deal even with shipping. Congrats and can't wait to hear some of your goodies.

PM--Were ya any good? Let's hear it!

Prettymaid
06-17-2009, 12:33 PM
PM--Were ya any good? Let's hear it!

Willie, I was a legend in my own mind! :hilarious:

MikeA
06-22-2009, 06:06 PM
The drumkit is "in" now. Overall, I am pleased with it. However there are some things I've found that leave me a bit less than wild about it.

First, compatibility with headphones: Works great with wired headphones, but my wireless headphones just don't work well with it. I'm going to try a few things to improve the audio with them, but my hopes are not high that it will pan out.

Second, the sensitivity of the pads: You have to make a pretty solid strike to get a clean sound and you do have to strike the pads in the center. I knew or suspected this before I bought the pads. What I didn't realize is that you cannot (or I cannot) register a good drum roll with them. A good "roll" has been likened to the sound of bacon frying in a skillet. But because of the intensity required to register a strike on the pads, usually only the first strike of each stick registers. I can hear the missed beats on the pads but the pads are not registering those subsequent strikes. I don't know how to describe this any better. If you've ever tried to play drums you probably know what I'm talking about.

Third, my little Marshall practice amp does not like my drumset very much <LOL> That is unfortunate because that amp has a headphone jack that silences the speaker in the amp. In other words, it would be great for practicing without disturbing anyone. Wired headphones fortunately, sound pretty good plugged directly into the drum set.

For good news, the drums sound GREAT through my acoustic amp. But that amp doesn't have a silent headphone mode. So, If I wish to drive Verna crazy and have the law knocking at my door for disturbing the peace, I can only use this amp when Verna is not home and even then, set to it's lowest volume.

I'm really not wanting to plug the set into my VOX amp. That's for GUITARS!!

With those limitation aside, I still am going to benefit from this set, small though it is. For anything other than drum rolls, it seems to be quite adequate.

The two foot pedals work just fine though I have to be careful NOT to kick them away as I stomp on them. They can be defined as any "voice" the unit has stored in it's digital library and there are 75 of those voices. Everything from Snares to Toms to Bass to Cowbells, to Cymbals and Gongs. You can even assign the same "voice" to multiple inputs (any of the 7 pads plus the two foot pedals). With that option you can do things like assign the same Bass sound to both pedals and have a double kick bass. That's pretty cool!

The downside to that is that you can only save one custom kit. If you change it (say from a snare to a fourth tom) you lose what you started with. With experimentation though, I'll find one that I like best and probably stick with it. Besides, there are 20 pre-defined "kits" and those are always at your disposal.

Now, comes the hard part. Learning to play. When I played in High School, I played a marching snare and a concert snare. I had to gain control of two implements of destruction only....my left hand and my right hand!

Well, with a drum kit, you have two other things to control...both feet in addition to the hands!

It is not simple. Not for me anyway. Try this at home....you may go crazy trying it...or you may be a natural drummer!

1. With your Right Hand, start a normal 4/4 beat by slapping your desk just with your right hand: 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4 and repeat infinitely.

2. With your Left Hand and while your right hand is still counting off that 4-beat repetition, strike the desk only on every other count starting with beat #2. So you are hitting 2, 4, 2, 4. Easy, right? Sure, it's easy for me and I'm sure you'll have no trouble with it.

3. Now, with your Right FOOT, tap on beats #1 and #3! Now things just got very interesting didn't they!

1 2 3 4 Right Hand
..2...4 Left Hand
1...3.. Right Foot

That is one of the most basic beats. Your Right Hand is beating the hi-hat or the ride cymbal, your left hand is beating the Snare Drum and your Right Foot is stomping the bass kick pedal.

But that ain't all. There is a third rhythm played with your Left Foot on the hi-hat pedal. It can be either a 4-beat or a 2-beat depending on what you wish it to sound like.

I'm not sure I have the separation of brain power to do this. New respect for Drummers! Weird Guys are Drummers! I don't know how with that sort of brain they are able to even walk!

All is not lost though even If I cannot duplicate that which drummer do! With the miracle, I can lay down the beat with my feet on one track and then come back and lay down the snare and cymbal beats on another track. After it is mixed, it will sound like it's all being done simultaneously!

Oh, the machine's training capability: There are I think 99 songs in the memory banks. Not really songs, but rather different rhythm loops that give you several options. You can listen to the complete composition and then turn off "pieces" of it. You can shut of Drum #1, Drum#2, the Bass and the Backing Track. It's all MIDI type sounds, but it gives you the chance to silence the parts you want to play along with. Of course, you can just play along with song without silencing anything. It becomes pretty obvious when you lose the beat!

All in all, it is a BLAST!

Ive always been a dreamer
06-22-2009, 07:29 PM
And now, Mike, if you are like the talented Mr. Henley, try singing an awesome song while doing all of that! Wow!!! :shock:

Prettymaid
06-23-2009, 08:01 AM
Mike, you're reminding me of my childhood. My brother loved the drums ever since I can remember. His first kit (he had to have been all of 8 - I would have been 5) was made from boxes and coffee can lids. But M & D eventually bought him a set and he was on that thing all the time. He never played in a band or anything, just loved to play with records.

Of course I idolized my big brother, so I wanted to play too. For some reason the only song I ever practiced to was Long Haired Lady off of McCartney's solo album back then. But I could only do the basic beat, and it just wasn't fun for me like it was for him. I quickly stopped and continued with vocals and keyboard, which I love to this day.

MikeA
06-23-2009, 08:17 AM
And now, Mike, if you are like the talented Mr. Henley, try singing an awesome song while doing all of that! Wow!!! :shock:

That does give you a new appreciation for the talent some of the musicians have doesn't it! I don't know which is more amazing...that someone can have "perfect pitch" and be able to just know what notes are being played or whether it is more amazing that someone can KNOW the correct timing of a beat and carry a groove requiring so many different actions in perfect coordination!

Having Either is a talent.

MikeA
06-23-2009, 10:46 AM
By Jove, I think I figured out what was wrong with my attempt at carrying that exercise that I spoke of!

I've got a freakin' EVEN NUMBERED Brain! :hilarious:

Seriously, I can't do anything but get frustrated trying to keep a 4 note beat with my right hand, and even numbered beat with my left hand and an odd numbered beat with my right foot.

However, If I start out tapping with my right foot on 1, left foot on 2 and right foot on 3 and left foot on four (alternating beats on each count) then it is no problem to hit each beat on a cymbal with my right hand and hit the snare on the even beats with my left hand. Note that my left foot and left hand are synchronized <LOL>.

And, now since I'm tapping my left foot anyway, might as well slide a hi-hat pedal under it! And it works! For ME anyway. And believe it or not it is not that hard to come up with a "fill" on the last two beats of the fourth measure and get right back into the groove with the 1st beat of the turnaround!

Hey....THAT's some thing I've NEVER been able to do before! So what, I'm cheating but it works! :drummer:

Prettymaid
06-23-2009, 05:42 PM
Mike, I wondered when you'd find that drumming smiley!

Can't quite tell if you're having fun or if you're aggravated, but keep up the good work!

MikeA
06-24-2009, 08:44 AM
Mike, I wondered when you'd find that drumming smiley!

Can't quite tell if you're having fun or if you're aggravated, but keep up the good work!

Oh, rest assured: "I'm Having FUN!". But it's like everything else...when I start something "new" like this, I'm whole hog and a perfectionist to boot and will settle for nothing but "success" (which I never achieve <LOL>)

But I do have fun doing or trying to do it! Thing is, my son who was curling his eyebrows when he found out what I'd bought, has become addicted to the drum machine too! It's NOT just a toy.

But it isn't the "end all" either. I'm already wanting to upgrade to one of the Roland or Yamaha Digital drum kits that have multiple zones on the drum and cymbal pads and are configured with pads that are sort of close to being in the position of an acoustic drum kit.

I'll find a good pic of one like I have or post a pic of mine and also post a pic of one like I'd like to have. You can see where mine might be considered a "toy".

MikeA
06-24-2009, 11:27 AM
I had already posted a pic of the drum kit I bought. Here's one of the digital drums I'd like to have. Either this one or one by Roland but Roland is way beyond any budget I'm likely to have in the foreseeable future.

There are advantages and disadvantages to a drum kit like the one pictured below compared to an acoustic kit (the kind you see Don Henley playing).

A good acoustic set will nearly always sound better than a digital set. However, you have to have a barrage of microphones if you want to record them. Plus, you can't practice without making a LOT of noise! So much noise (okay, "Music") that practice is really limited.

The digital sets are controled by a "brain" or computer module to interpret the drum strikes and pass them on to some sort of amplification. Also coming into play is the sophistication of the drum pad itself...it's sensitivity to light strikes, whether it is a 1 or 2 or 3 zone pad (so you can replicate "rim shots") and get different sounds depending on where on the pads you hit.

But one of the main advantages to the digital sets is that you can practice through headphones beating them as hard as you wish and not disturb anyone else!

If you look at the set here (A Yamaha lower end set) you can see that the position of the pads and pedals are much the same as what you would be using if you were playing an acoustic set.

With the digital sets, most have training aids and multitudes of sounds that can be applied to any of the pads. That means that in the one set, you can create far more drum kits than you would ever be able to either afford, transport or set up on a stage!

And, with the digital sets, you will nearly always have built in practice songs that you can listen to, play along with, and ultimately remove the stored drum tracks so that what you hear when playing along with the song is only what YOU YOURSELF are playing. Some even have the logic to alert you when you get even a little bit off the groove of the song. Pretty fancy!

The one shown below is the Yamaha kit that runs around $700 without the amplifier but with everything else pictured.

There is a pretty good demo at the following eBay auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DTXPLORER-Electronic-Drum-Set-w-Throne-PkgA_W0QQitemZ200316951357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item2ea3d21b3d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65:12|66:4|39:1|72:1205|240:1308|301:1|2 93:1|294:200)

http://www.siglermusiconline.com/store/pc/catalog/dtxplorer-pkgc_1338_detail.jpg

sodascouts
06-24-2009, 05:09 PM
Nice!

MikeA
06-25-2009, 04:24 PM
eBay must automatically remove the image after a short while after the auction is completed. Anyway, here is the actual set that I got. Note that the larger pads are 5" (4 pads) and the smaller ones are 3.5" (3 pads). Note how small the foot pedals are. And, sitting flat on the floor they are hard to "kick". I'm going to have to make some sort of plywood board that will angle them up about 45^ and mount the pedals backwards on that board so the position of my foot will be more like what a real kick pedal feels like.

That area that I have the drum set up is a really tight squeeze for a bar stool to be set up in front of it. My desk is really too close but I have no better place to set it up. I usually run a 15' guitar cord from the AUX out on the unit to my Fender Acoustasonic Amp. It seems to work much better with the drum kit than my 15 watt Marshall practice amp. When not using the Acoustic Amp on it, I'm generally plugged into headphones. My wireless headphones do not work well with this unit! They sound horrible with it. I have yet to attempt recording anything with the drums. I've got to get a LOT better before I attempt that <LOL>

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/VP_Screens/MikeA/jun25002.jpg

Prettymaid
06-25-2009, 08:37 PM
Mike, I see you've been doing some painting in your spare time...:hilarious:

MikeA
06-26-2009, 07:32 AM
Mike, I see you've been doing some painting in your spare time...:hilarious:

Look closer Cathy....Those are little hand prints from Miles with a little assistance from my daughter Amanda, his Mom <smile> They gave it to me on my birthday last year (2008) so he was Two.

MikeA
06-26-2009, 05:18 PM
I can't believe this! :-x

Playing this drum set has set off my "tennis elbow"! ARGGGGGGG! I've had to go back to wearing that annoying brace on it. Unbelievable that I can go out and play golf and not bother it swinging a freakin' driver and pushing a 3-wheeled cart over 18 holes but hitting a snare with a drumstick breaks it down! What kind of deal is that?

But, I'm getting to where I can fill in a beat on the practice sequences. Sort of. Still having trouble keeping steady bass kicks while filling with my snares, toms and cymbals. Don't know how those guys do it.

But I've got it backwards. I have to have a song to keep the beat to. With a band, it's the drummer who is keeping the beat for the other musicians! Something's wrong with anyone who can play drums. They ought to be checked by a shrink!

MikeA
08-24-2009, 11:04 AM
I mentioned elsewhere that I was going to be accompanying my father-in-law for come country oldies with my acoustic guitar. Well, I went to tune it and my tuner was "busted". Thought it might be a battery but nope....new battery nor AC adapter worked. Hate that! It was a RockTek stompbox tuner that I just always left hooked up with my guitar running through it and then from the tuner to the amp. I could stomp it and it would cut the guitar out of the amp circuit and let me tune silently and when stomped "off" it would pass the signal unaltered from the guitar to the amp.

Oh well, everything has a life expectancy and I guess the RockTek was at the end of Its.

No problem, I have two other tuners. But I'll be danged if NEITHER of those worked either! I had to use a tuner built into one of my software interface adapters and it sucks! I can do better generating a tone and tuning by ear. I don't have perfect (or even marginally acceptable!) pitch so really need an electronic tuner.

I found a pretty good buy. KORG makes several models but the one most praised is a $35 KORG CA-30. I found one on eBay for around $17 (includes shipping) NEW. If all of its rave reviews are legit, that will turn out to be a good buy.

Only bad thing is that it is not an in-line tuner....can't leave it plugged in all the time like I could with the RockTek. Just a little more hassle to hook up and use.

ticky
08-24-2009, 11:21 AM
Mike, I have a Korg ca-30 and it's pretty nice and easy to use.. Real accurate and you can adjust it to the key you want to tune to.. I dont know about plugging it in to an amp cuz I dont have one, if I can use it, you know it's gotta be pretty easy to use! *G*

MikeA
08-24-2009, 11:55 AM
It's Irritating Ticky. Playing an electric, with all the string bending, and with the lighter weight strings on electric guitars, the strings stretch and go out of tune quite often. It sure was "handy" just pressing a pedal on a stompbox and having instant access to the tuner and stomping it again when done. No cables to plug in...just "do it".

Guess I'll be going back to the old routine that most people employ. Unplug the guitar from the amp, plug into a tuner and get it zeroed on 440 or whatever and then blow a speaker on the amp when I plug back in <LOL>

But the alternative is pretty expensive. I got the RockTek on some sort of amazing clearance from Musician's Friend I think. The new pedal tuners can really get expensive...well over $50. I don't need to be "in tune" that badly <LOL>

MikeA
08-26-2009, 09:24 AM
I really need to take out a couple of days and figure out just how to get sound recorded through my gear and software and monitor it as I play it. The Line-6 "Gearbox" USB audio interface is wonderful, however, some of the software I use to record what I'm playing doesn't really like the Gearbox interface as an audio interface input.

That is especially true when I want to go from my amp into a recording session. Gearbox wants to "color" the sound so what comes out of the amp isn't what ends up being recorded! I may have to resort to a Microphone on the amp instead of recording direct.

The effects that can be used with Gearbox are amazing....but there are SO MANY of them and they are named things like "Brain Freeze" or "Chrome Butter" when I'd much rather them be categorized by the amp they are modeling and then have sub categories for different effects added to the mix on that amp.

I mean, a Marshal might be called a Brit Brite or a Classical Brit. But what is a VOX called? Or a Fender or an Orange? Each has a signature "tone" but how in the world do you isolate that amp when looking at the virtually endless combinations of amp models and effects pedals that you can choose with this software!

What I need to do is just sit down without interruptions, and find the handful of sounds that I really use and set them up as "User Presets" with names that I can recognize <LOL>

For instance, I can get the Jimmy Page "sound" in "Black Dog" from my VOX amp, but for the life of me, can't get that sound nailed using the emulation software when I record it.

ARGGGG. That's compounded when coming from my amp to the USB because of the double amp effect (real VOX plus the added color of the interface software!)

Monitoring is a real challenge because of the Latency introduced by the USB. There is a delay between the time you strike a string and the sound being recorded that you hear through the monitors. This is because of the internal processing of that sound before it is routed to your headphones or speakers. Makes "over dubbing" something of a nightmare <LOL>

I went straight from the amp through a mic to get my "signature" audio in place now. I like the amp because I have a footswitch that I can stomp to switch between saved preset effects. They "drive" part is an overdriven HiGain amp. The 'vocal' part is an automatic Wah-Wah. Switching like that without using the amp is impossible. You can't do it "on the fly" with the modeling software you use when you bypass the amp completely. I would have to record in segments and then patch in the part with a different effect.

I guess a lot of people do this but that's not the way I like to record. I like to do it "naturally" and just record whatever it is I am playing. I'm still working on a way to get a completely clean interface so I can record the guitar and amp directly without color from the interface. If I figure that out then I can still use my stomp box to switch effects "on the fly".

Recording with the mic'd amp doesn't sound anything like the sound coming from the amp speakers. Cheap microphone I guess. I lose a LOT of bass and adding the base like I did with this software "after the fact" doesn't restore it. It's like 2-dimensional instead of 3-D...hard to describe. But I lose a lot of "presence"....it's not a FULL sound. Wish I could show you the difference! <sigh>

MikeA
08-26-2009, 03:14 PM
Will wonders never cease! After posting the previous message of grief with recording interfaces, I started poking around a lot deeper in "Audacity". If I didn't say it before, this Audacity software is FREE and something anyone who messes around with recording or even MP3 format music, will find very useful. Useful like in making your own ring-tones for one thing!

But what I needed was an interface option in Audacity that would recognize my Line-6 Gearbox software and the TonePort that is the actual USB interface.

Well, there was one burried deep in "Preferences". With that activated, I can now record straight from my amp through the interface which feeds the interface software (Gearbox). With Gearbox set to a "clean" amp model, it will pass a virtually unaltered signal into my DAW (Audacity).

By using this setup, I can use my footswitch to change between two presets, one WAH WAH and the other a distorted British amp model that sounds somewhat like what Page was using.

This is GOOD. Audacity is pretty darn powerful for editing and is FREE and is much less complex than the do-it-all Abelton-Live and CUBase. Those two DAWs are very expensive and difficult to use. Or at least the learning curve is too great for someone who just wants to hack around like I do.

MikeA
10-06-2009, 07:04 PM
Done it again. Convinced myself that I have Lusted long enough. I'm getting a Gibson Les Paul. Been wanting one since I first picked up a guitar and they were always out of my price range.

But Gibson has started offering Les Paul Studio guitars in a plain brown wrapper. Literally! The only finish is stain and a micro clearcoat of some sort. The stained finish I'm going for is called "Worn Brown"...pretty much what it sounds like...a block of walnut stained out...except it is mahogany stained to a brown finish.

Same as any other Les Paul. '59 style neck (sort of fat) and loaded with a 490R humbucker in the neck and a 498T in the bridge. Both the humbuckers and all the other hardware is chrome. Trapezoid inlays in the frets. Nothing fancy.

But the sound....reviews assure me that it is "classic Gibson Les Paul". Can't wait to go do a formal "look" at one before ordering it.

GlennLover
10-06-2009, 07:08 PM
Way to go Mike! :guitar:

sodascouts
10-06-2009, 07:14 PM
I don't know much about guitars, but even I know what a great sound a Gibson Les Paul gets. Congrats on your imminent purchase!

ticky
10-06-2009, 07:50 PM
YA MIKE!! WOO HOO!!! *naked happy dancing about Gibson LPs!!":partytime: WOOO!!! I know you've wanted one for sooo long!! and you deserve it! COOL BEANS!!!!! When I get my SG we'll video jam!!! of course you'll have to teach me how to play my SG. Im getting it next week, so dont order it, run over to Guitar Center and tell em you found it on MF, show em the print out of the add and they'll honor the lower price! (plus no shipping and handling AND you'll have it right away!! WOOHOO!!) I cant wait to jam!

MikeA
10-06-2009, 09:21 PM
YA MIKE!! WOO HOO!!! *naked happy dancing about Gibson LPs!!":partytime: WOOO!!! I know you've wanted one for sooo long!! and you deserve it! COOL BEANS!!!!! When I get my SG we'll video jam!!! of course you'll have to teach me how to play my SG. Im getting it next week, so dont order it, run over to Guitar Center and tell em you found it on MF, show em the print out of the add and they'll honor the lower price! (plus no shipping and handling AND you'll have it right away!! WOOHOO!!) I cant wait to jam!

Good idea Ticky....but the price is the SAME at GC as from the mail order places and they are equipped the same way. But buying it locally would involve SALES TAX and Kansas is pretty stiff. It would add close to $75 or $80 to the final price. Mail Order is FREE SHIPPING.

However, if the ax needed setting up (and most new gits do need to be set up) if they would toss in the set up free for me, I'd be tempted! Sorely Tempted!

Glennsallnighter
10-07-2009, 04:23 AM
Well good luck with it Mike!! And Ticky have great fun jamming. I WISH I could join sometime
*Did I mention our lotto is up to Ä9,000,000 tonight and its tax free? :wink:*

MikeA
10-07-2009, 07:53 AM
I've been doing a lot of "research" on the specs on the neck of the LP Studio I'm looking at. Most of the comments I've seen claim the Studio has a '59 style neck...FAT. The "factory specs" give the numbers as:

22 fret
24-3/4" scale
12" radius
1-11/16" nut width

Okay. Doesn't tell you about the "feel". I guess the only way to "get" that would be to play it. However, the specs given on the neck are identical to the specs on the Gibson ES-335 from which the blueprints were used to build the Epiphone Sheraton II (my number ONE right now).

The feel of the neck should be about the same. I'm amp'd up enough. I think I'll just ORDER the thing today and pray that it comes in next week! I've got some time off next week and can think of very few ways to spend time off work than breaking in a new guitar!

My only real reason for going to Guitar Center to get my hands on one before ordering boils down to eliminating the possibility that I might want the "Faded Cherry" finish instead of the "Worn Brown" finish.

As for "set up"...I've done everything myself on other guitars...setting intonation, raising and lowering the bridge, raising and lowering pickups. The only thing I haven't done is mess with the truss rod to get the bow in the neck correctly set.

TimothyBFan
10-07-2009, 08:13 AM
Wow Mike--How cool for you. I can almost hear you now! Congrats. That's what most of the legendary jazz/blues performers, John Lee Hooker and such, use/used right?

MikeA
10-07-2009, 08:23 AM
Wow Mike--How cool for you. I can almost hear you now! Congrats. That's what most of the legendary jazz/blues performers, John Lee Hooker and such, use/used right?

A lot of Blues players have used Les Pauls. In fact, I don't think there are very many genres that have NOT been infiltrated with Les Pauls.

I could be wrong on this, but I read somewhere that Pete Townshend of "The Who" was the first Brit to pick up on the Les Paul guitars back around 1967. After he started playing one on stage, they became VERY POPULAR because of the application of the humbucker pickup sound that only Gibson had at the time. Everyone else was pretty much using single-coil pickups.

Actually, I think Gibson developed the humbucker pickups back in '57, but they were not "popular" until much later. Can't imagine why that is a fact!

MikeA
10-07-2009, 12:51 PM
WOW. Blown away! Ordered the LP about an hour ago via the WEB Site and paid with PayPal. I just got off the phone with a Customer Rep who is also a musician. Great conversation. They do not "set up" guitars but do perform a "55 point" inspection. That includes minor adjustments to bridge height if needed to insure that it is not ridiculously high nor so low that it buzzes. Obviously, they take it out of the box and plug it in and actually play it before shipping.

Truss Rod shouldn't be a problem as it is set initially at the Gibson factory. Intonation is also set for 10-gauge strings. Should be ready to hammer on as soon as I get it unless I want to adjust the bridge a bit lower...probably will.

Oh, they are shipping TODAY and it should be in my hands either Friday or Saturday.

A couple of things I confirmed. This git comes with Gibson Burstbucker pickups rather than the 498T and 490R numbers that used to be standard on the LPs.

Also, he indicated that as far as he knows, there is no "chambering" or "Hole Cutting" in the body to reduce weight though there are some upper end models of the LPs that do have that chambering done.

Prettymaid
10-07-2009, 02:09 PM
I don't understand half of it Mike, but I know EXCITED when I hear it! Congrats!

MikeA
10-07-2009, 02:11 PM
Oh yeah Cathy..."excited" is a fair superlative. Try to think of something you've wanted for 50 years and never had it (I know there is NOTHING you've wanted for FIFTY YEARS...not yet anyway!) Then you find it will be in your hands in three or four days. Yeah, "Excited" describes it <LOL> I'll have to change my signature "audio" clip to "Turn To Stone" in honor of the ax!

Something like this:

http://mvabercrombie.net/TurnToStone.mp3

I played that one on my Frankenstrat (Fender Prodigy) with drop "D" tuning. I liked the harmonics that low "D" produced and especially the addition to the Bar'd "D" chord. I added some muted chords under the solo to fill in space though it's nothing like what the original recording sounded like. Probably the solo part didn't sound much like it anyway, but I like that register.

Parts of that solo vaguely remind me of Clapton's "Layla" and Moody Blues "Nights in White Satin"

Prettymaid
10-07-2009, 02:14 PM
NOW you're speakin' my language! :hilarious:

bernie's bender
10-07-2009, 08:23 PM
congrats man! I haven't owned a les paul in awhile, but they are sure nice guitars...

here is a little tune I did in my home studio.....

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Music/audition.mp3

I'm more of a telecaster guy (like Walsh and Leadon) but I am an equal opportunity lover of guitars....

MikeA
10-07-2009, 09:34 PM
congrats man! I haven't owned a les paul in awhile, but they are sure nice guitars...

here is a little tune I did in my home studio.....

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Music/audition.mp3

I'm more of a telecaster guy (like Walsh and Leadon) but I am an equal opportunity lover of guitars....


Way clean man! I've got a long ways to go and learned a long time ago, it's not the end that is important, but rather what you experience along the way!

That track was very very good. Give us more!

bernie's bender
10-07-2009, 10:05 PM
here is my evidence of being an inveterate guitar lover-->

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Pictures/inventory/IMG_0230.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Pictures/inventory/IMG_0240.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Pictures/inventory/IMG_0226.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Pictures/inventory/IMG_0215.jpg

I'll put some more tracks up when I get a chance... I'm hoping to have a cd done pretty soon.

ticky
10-07-2009, 10:46 PM
BB, wow.. beautiful collection!! and i loved the track!! Im looking forward to hearing more.
Im just learning to play, got myself a really pretty little Tak acoustic last year and Im looking for an electric this year. Im pretty excited about the SG Special. I know it's not the best of the best, but it feels good and I love the sound. My brother is an amazing musician and wants to start a band and he wants me in it.. :hilarious: well.. I can try *G*

bernie's bender
10-07-2009, 10:58 PM
Thanks gang.. I wish that was the whole collection... but, it (lowers head) isn't....

Here is my pride and joy! I just finished it this summer... it is my tribute guitar to Bernie, Don Rich, Clarence White, and Bob Warford.... some of my heroes...

It has a parsons white bbender in it and, well, it is a complicated but simple guitar... great real fred stuart pickups, one piece pine body, glendale bridge and saddles, hand tooled leather pickguard and some custom wiring under the hood....


http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Pictures/rancher/rhfront.JPG

http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Pictures/rancher/rhback.JPG

My son and his friend are building their first teles right now... they should turn out to be pretty cool...

I'll take some pics of my amps too.. I've got a couple of those and several I've built....

TimothyBFan
10-08-2009, 07:14 AM
BB--Love the track and can't wait to hear more!

MikeA
10-08-2009, 07:19 AM
I've been around the world 4 times, been to 7 county fairs and 3 hog killin's and ain't never seen nuthin' like that before!

The Tele! A Beaut! Never though of a tooled leather pick-guard! I started working leather back about the same time I got my first guitar. I've made straps before, but leather guards...what a concept! Did you tool it?

I'm not knocking the woodwork and inlay work at all, but I'm having a hard time getting past the leather. Is the color "Dyed?" or acrylic? The lettering...so intricate and I can see that it is beveled by hand and apparently not stamped.

Folks, lettering leather is HARD and the smaller it is, the harder it is to keep it straight and proportional. That's jewelry store stuff!

Damn....why is it that when the parade goes by, I'm out to lunch! Yesh, I'd love to sit down with you some day and just hang out on the wires. Heck, I'd even break all my rules and soak up some suds with you! :cheers:

TimothyBFan
10-08-2009, 07:27 AM
and 3 hog killin's

:woah: What? Say it isn't so!!!!! (need to put all those expressions in the other thread!

BTW-I figured you'd almost wet yourself when you saw those pictures. :lol:

Prettymaid
10-08-2009, 09:25 AM
BB, love the sound, anxious to hear more!

bernie's bender
10-08-2009, 11:17 AM
thanks for the comments gang! these are of varied quality and for different purposes (mostly backing music for video clips for presos at work and for some product stuff) anyway... I'll post a couple...

oh, the leather is hand tooled and the colors are dye... the leather is starting to get worn (4 hour gigs get sweaty!) and the pine is getting aged and dented just the way I want.

here is one I laid down while frustrated by being called to the big boss at his home....
http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Public/Palo_Alto_Calling.mp3

This was for a meeting where we were introducing something new... I wanted the Elvis in black leather 68 comeback feel
http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Public/vgw.mp3

This one is a goof and there are a bunch of embarrassing mistakes..but... I used a drum machine and was going for that Gregory Abbott "shake you down" sound... I was demoing a filter that lowers your voice.. so I did a Barry White type rap (rap as in 70's to talk 'you know baby' not hip hop) over it
http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Public/pgr.mp3

a bunch of my friends are guitar players who mostly play at home and they wanted something to jam with... so, I have made a bunch of tracks for them.... I'm only playing about half the stuff on this one (guitars, bass, drums, harp)... I collaborated with some friends... there are some mistakes... but, since some of you play guitar, you may have fun jamming over it....
http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Public/easy_dog_harp.mp3

I'm pretty umm careful about sharing my singing! ha ha! I promise when my cd is done (and it will definitely sell in the 10's and 20's! ha ha) I'll share some tracks... work, kids, and playing a couple of nights a week cut into fun time recording my "super amazing" originals... (thank god there are great songwriters like JD, Jacks, Eagles etc. so the world has good stuff to hear!)

MikeA
10-08-2009, 11:26 AM
I collaborated with some friends... there are some mistakes... but, since some of you play guitar, you may have fun jamming over it....
http://homepage.mac.com/macmanager/.Public/easy_dog_harp.mp3


I like the Blues foundation and will get off on it. Thanks!

I've got most of the "tools" for home recording, but don't know how to use them yet. Still trying to get the recording to sound like the amp without much success. Using DI. Don't have any mics worthy of the name!

bernie's bender
10-08-2009, 11:32 AM
I like the Blues foundation and will get off on it. Thanks!

I've got most of the "tools" for home recording, but don't know how to use them yet. Still trying to get the recording to sound like the amp without much success. Using DI. Don't have any mics worthy of the name!

get a little line6 toneport for 70.00... it comes with all the amps and effects you'll ever need. I hardly ever use real amps anymore too hard to capture them adequately... once you have spent some times working with the settings on the models... you just save them... I have a bunch of 'eagles' models that I've saved... then you just call them up...

it takes time, but it is fun once you've put in the time... I just need some stretches of uninterrupted time.

MikeA
10-08-2009, 11:52 AM
get a little line6 toneport for 70.00... it comes with all the amps and effects you'll ever need. I hardly ever use real amps anymore too hard to capture them adequately... once you have spent some times working with the settings on the models... you just save them... I have a bunch of 'eagles' models that I've saved... then you just call them up...

it takes time, but it is fun once you've put in the time... I just need some stretches of uninterrupted time.


Yeah, that's what I have...Line 6 Tone Direct with GearBox Silver except I have the Gold package too.

Do you plug straight into the Toneport or do you go through an amp first? I really need to get a decent monitor. Using cordless headphones right now.

Man, I could learn SO MUCH from you!

bernie's bender
10-08-2009, 12:20 PM
Yeah, that's what I have...Line 6 Tone Direct with GearBox Silver except I have the Gold package too.

Do you plug straight into the Toneport or do you go through an amp first? I really need to get a decent monitor. Using cordless headphones right now.

Man, I could learn SO MUCH from you!

Yep. Direct in, no amp.

I think good headphones are okay to track with... guys have been using them for a long time, so, no problem there....

The latency thing can throw guys off at first with digital recording, but I've gotten used to it and my setup is nearly zero latency now anyway, so no biggie... also, with the toneports you can use the headphone jack instead of your DAW out and hear it without latency....

I tend to like to hear the mix while I'm playing....

as for decent monitors... the little powered monitors like fostex etc are fine... and you can get a pair for 150.00 or less... better still... look on your local craigslist and find an old set of decent JBL's or Boston Acoustics or other good name speaker and an old stereo receiver and hook that up... with a couple of adapters from Radio Shack you can have your DAW roaring....

When I've helped my friends get setup I always tell them that if you can connect things in a manner that is easy to sit down and record then you don't waste all that creative energy on 'set up'....

Kind of like websites... most people spend all their time on the layout and then are exhausted by the time it comes to creating content... I'd rather have a simple, ugly layout with great content, than razzle dazzle with no meat...

I set up a pretty famous guy's studio in snowmass, co back in the early 90's... back then it was still pretty much analog with a mac to run the midi... boy, those were some heady days! I never got to hang out with the famous guy... just got everything working for his engineer and got paid...

the setup I have in my home studio now is 1K times better than that (except for one really nice mic and two great compressors they had)...

what I tell my friends is: don't get hung up on gear... use your limitations to enhance your creativity.... getting stuck because of gear shows a lack of imagination....

(go listen to the kick drum on Jackson Browne's 'nothing but time'... it sounds cool... it is a cardboard box.) I once saw Dave Lindley plug a 35.00 guitar into a 30,000.00 amplifier mic'd by a 80.00 sm57 into 20,000.00 compressor.... the money don't matter!

my favorite comment from a pretty well know engineer buddy after some pretty sucky musicians were complaining about a piece of gear... he turns to me and says (this was in the 80's) "Stevie Wonder has a keyboard setup that costs almost a million dollars. He has two full time programmers working on the thing... and when he gets ready to play a solo... he pulls out a 12.00 hohner harmonica..." and he shook his head.....

also go light on the reverb and delay... on multiple tracks it will have a bad effect if it has been laid in... Andrew Gold taught me a bunch about how to use and not use it...

sodascouts
10-08-2009, 12:59 PM
Just had a chance to listen to your stuff Bender - impressive. Thanks for posting it!

Prettymaid
10-08-2009, 01:14 PM
Bender - I have a feeling I would enjoy reading your book! :wink:

TimothyBFan
10-08-2009, 01:32 PM
BB--I can honestly say I'm a fan!!! :hilarious: Loved the first one and the soulful one the most, not so much the second one (not a Elvis kinda girl) but that's just me!

This cd of which you speak of... when and I'm sure you could sell a few here, starting with me.

Did I miss it somewhere---are you actually with a band or session artists etc? I'm sorry if you've told your story but I have a short memory. Just direct me to the thread if you told us and don't want to retell it.

MikeA
10-08-2009, 01:35 PM
BB....distortion and reverb can cover a multitude of sins <LOL>

Nancy, if ever you decide this topic needs to be archived, please holler at me and let me do some copying!

I'm not having any trouble with latency. I do come out of the headphones but have also plugged in my computer speakers with its subwoofer into the Analog Outs. It works pretty good but I don't like plugging and unplugging my sound card. I have the Outputs and Record options set to the Line 6 USB so wherever I go, it is "after the mix". Only if I use the D.I. Out do I miss that.

I like to here what's being mixed as I'm layering it.

What DAW are you using? I've tried CuBase and Abelton Live but have found that for what I need, the free "Audacity" is simplicity and very easy to work with.

bernie's bender
10-08-2009, 02:00 PM
thanks gang... I'll give away the songs when they are done... we're doing a band cd too... that may take a spell...

I use Logic and Garageband and Melodyne for software... for my pc friends I've set most of them up on reaper which I think is the best of the lowend packages on that side... you know what they say... old hippies don't die they just go in to the computer business! ha ha.

TimothyBfan, I'm new here... just a big Eagles fan from the old days... heck, I can remember the Corvettes and I'd heard of Shiloh and Longbranch Pennywhistle. I actually attended Souther Hillman and Furay shows... so, I'm a geezer! I've been a musician (semi pro) most of my life. Grew up the son of an inventor and with sisters who worked in studios in LA and OC back in the 70's so I got to hang out and see a lot of what became history (who knew!?)... I saw a gozillion shows back in the 70's and absolutely loved the music scene in LA back then (tragically not hip to admit now, but I loved it)

but, I was kind of a tweener... too young to have been in that scene as a player... the best I could do was play in bands during the Urban Cowboy era... I didn't take to disco nor arena rock nor punk... I loved country rock and electric folk and classic country... so, I have chosen obscurity (ummm and well, my talent level also chose obscurity.)

The music has always been my love and I've been lucky to have played steadily for a long time and have gotten to do it on the terms I have chosen.... I still do sessions for some folks, lots of sit ins for singer songwriters and I play regularly in a classic country/western swing band (we even wear outfits!)

I am just starting another project band with a bunch of old cowboys and indians and hippies to do a bunch of cosmic cowboy music/country rock from about 66-76 to be ready for the spring festival season... I have a hunch country rock is about to make a comeback! ha ha!

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement... It will make me buckle down and get some stuff finished.

MikeA
10-09-2009, 05:48 PM
Well, there it is! Love it! Setup was almost perfect. The "e" string (#1) is slightly sharp on the 12th fret, but the rest are too close to mess with.

It does have "Burstbuckers". A little hotter I think than the pickups they used to use. Plenty hot for me!

I've got to get used to the sharp ends on the frets. On all my other guitars, they are worn from playing. I guess I could take a fingernail file to the ends and round them a bit, but I think I'll just try to get used to it.

I really do like the feel of the neck. It is a little fatter than my Epiphone Sheraton II and a little thicker than my Fender. But it feels "right".

http://mvabercrombie.net/abercrombie_albums/2009_1009_git/Oct09%20005.jpg

You can probably see it better in the web page display at:

http://mvabercrombie.net/abercrombie_albums/2009_1009_git/2009_1009_git.html

That page reduces it to fit your screen. But you can left click on the image to zoom in to full size.

The guitar is darker than that close up on the body suggests. The flash I guess. I've very pleased with the dark finish.

bernie's bender
10-09-2009, 11:48 PM
nice one.. is it walnut? it kind of looks like a model from the 70's called 'The Paul'.....

Don't get used to ragged fret ends... go to www.stewmac.com and get some decent files and learn to dress them... go slow and work small and you can have things exactly like you want...

What kind of tuner are you using for your setups?

What amps have you got?

The paul thing kinda makes sense for the Frey stuff and witchy woman... one of the oddities of the guitar world is that so many people associate Page and Walsh with Les Pauls and the major recordings they are known for are all on telecasters!

The solo on stairway to heaven is a telecaster... hotel california was joe on a tele (granted Felder was a gibson guy and sometimes a strat)

I may try to set down a couple of the Walsh songs from his live album... like Meadows and ... hmmm.... maybe I'll lay down meadows so you can wail on it.

MikeA
10-10-2009, 07:07 AM
nice one.. is it walnut? it kind of looks like a model from the 70's called 'The Paul'.....

It is Mahogany but I think they used a Walnut-like stain on it. It's very dark brown and only has a hint of the red mahogany characteristic color to it. It is also very "flat" without much gloss at all. It does look more Walnut than Mahogany to me. There are two images of the git on my website. The one of the full guitar (not just the body) is a better indication of the color. The flash on my camera overexposed the body shot quite a bit. I'll link that pic in at the bottom of this post. Dang it, those images are just too big for the message boxes on the forum here. I'm going to resize both and hope that the change doesn't jack around with the color!

Don't get used to ragged fret ends... go to www.stewmac.com and get some decent files and learn to dress them... go slow and work small and you can have things exactly like you want...

They are not "ragged" but I know what you are talking about. The frets seem to be more "squared off" on the ends and I'm not used to that. If I did anything to them, it would be just to "round off" the top corner just a bit...especially on the "e" string side of the neck. I'll check out the StewMac.Com site.

What kind of tuner are you using for your setups?

I use a KORG CA-30 tuner most of the time. But I also use the tuner with GearBox (the Line 6 effects D.I. processor software). They must be pretty close for they give me the same readings. I had a Rocktek SOAP-02 stompbox tuner before the KORG. Really liked the Rocktek, but that model is no longer made and other pedal tuners were just too expensive for me.

What amps have you got?

I have a Vox AD30VT modeling amp. I don't use a lot of the models on it. Mostly I use the Fender Tweed setting or the Boutique for "clean" and generally find myself tweaking the AC30 model for anything needing dirt. It has pretty good effects built in, but I seldom use anything other than Reverb, Comp and some times, a little Chorus. I like the VOX because you can crank it all the way with volume and then cut back the power with a knob found on the back of the amp. It's a semi tube amp. I think I wrote something up on it here right after I got it...back when I could remember all the techy details. Any more I'm only concerned about the sound that comes out of it rather than what makes the sound <smile>. I'm pretty happy with the amp. Would have had to pay a LOT more to get what this one provides in most cases.

I've also got a Fender Acoustasonic JR. that I use with my Seagull acoustic. It is a great amp for what I was using it for back in the day. I played several Praise and Worship venues, sometimes just using the amp and sometimes running the amp through the PA if they had a decent mixer

The paul thing kinda makes sense for the Frey stuff and witchy woman... one of the oddities of the guitar world is that so many people associate Page and Walsh with Les Pauls and the major recordings they are known for are all on telecasters!

I've never played a Tele. Actually, I've never played a Gibson Les Paul either before I got mine yesterday. The closest I'd come was an Epiphone Les Paul Standard that I bought my Son back a LONG time ago. I remember liking the sledghammer feel of it. But at that time, I only had an acoustic with which the Paul was quite a contrast.

I have an Epiphone Sheraton II (Gibson ES-335 authorized clone) and I really do love the feel of it...and the tone for most stuff. But it's BIG (and gawdy with all the fancy inlay and bindings). The neck on the Paul feels even better than the Epi except for the fret ends and that is rather easily fixed.

As for the "weight" that everyone associates with LPs, my Epi seems to weigh more than the Paul, or at least as much. Weight is not an issue for me.

The solo on stairway to heaven is a telecaster... hotel california was joe on a tele (granted Felder was a gibson guy and sometimes a strat)

I may try to set down a couple of the Walsh songs from his live album... like Meadows and ... hmmm.... maybe I'll lay down meadows so you can wail on it.


You lay it down and it'll get a LOT of air time from me! No one but ME may ever hear it <LOL> but you'll get a lot of kudos from me if you take the time to do it! It gets pretty old "not" having anyone to play along with and because of that, when I do finally get together with anyone, it is usually a while before I can match resonances with them. You are at a very big disadvantage when you always do the Narcissistic thing. But over the years, I have learned to make a killer "D" chord <LOL>

http://mvabercrombie.net/abercrombie_albums/2009_1009_git/Oct09%20004.jpg

MikeA
10-16-2009, 07:18 PM
Here's that "Ring Of Fire" I've been working on. It's about where I want it. This one was all done with the Les Paul though I had to mess around with amp models to get enough of the flavor into it...sort of a "country-minor" thing.

I played it in "Am" and just improved the turnarounds.

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/ROF Minor.mp3

MikeA
10-16-2009, 11:14 PM
Back when I first got a guitar, in the 7th grade, 3 or 4 of us would take acoustic guitars to school and jam before school and after lunch before the first class in the afternoon. Mostly, we played Folk music, but "Wildwood Flower" was the only song one of the guys knew, so we played it a lot.

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Wildwood Flower.mp3

MikeA
10-17-2009, 10:04 AM
It's Hell being on vacation and having nothing but RAIN all week long. But one thing it has done is made me dredge back in the archives and did out tunes that I liked. Ironic that a lot of it is bluegrass!

Y'all ever heard "Rocky Top" that was first recorded by the "Osborne Brothers" back in 1967? It's a staple of Country/Bluegrass.

I capo'd this on the 5th fret and played it on my Epiphone.

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Rocky Top.mp3

GlennLover
10-17-2009, 10:31 AM
Y'all ever heard "Rocky Top" that was first recorded by the "Osborne Brothers" back in 1967? It's a staple of Country/Bluegrass.http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Rocky Top.mp3

That sounds great Mike. I love "Rocky Top"! I don't know if I ever heard it by the "Osborne Brothers" though. Don't know where I first heard it, it's just one of those songs that I have always known. :)

MikeA
10-17-2009, 10:45 AM
That sounds great Mike. I love "Rocky Top"! I don't know if I ever heard it by the "Osborne Brothers" though. Don't know where I first heard it, it's just one of those songs that I have always known. :)

I really like it too. I remember back in 1980, my Dad was in the hospital fighting for his life in a battle with cancer. My youngest sister, a friend of hers, Verna and I went to a bar in Hot Springs, Arkansas to try to sort of get it back together.

They had a local band playing a lot of country music but before the band ended a set, the owner of the bar came up to the mic on stage. I guess it was sort of a tradition there with the locals. His first song was "Rocky Top". He then went into a medley with "Dixie" and "Battle Hymn". It was one of those "moments" that stuck with me. He might not have been able to sing any other songs, but he had those three nailed.

GlennLover
10-17-2009, 11:02 AM
That was a touching story. I also love "Dixie" & "Battle Hymn". We sing "Battle Hymn" in church. Many years ago my Dad was in a Barbershop chorus & quartet & they sang both of those songs. Wonderful memories for me! :)

MikeA
10-17-2009, 11:13 AM
Ann,

A while back, I did that medley and added a couple of other segments to it including "Amazing Grace" and "I Dreamed There Was no War". I tacked the "War" song on before I had figured it out completely but never went back and "fixed" it.

I chose these four because to me they all had to do with "War". Mostly, I think of the "Civil War" when I hear these. "Dixie" was the marching song for the Confederates. "Battle Hymn" I associate with the Union. Both were in need of some "Amazing Grace" and Glenn summed it up with "I Dreamed There Was No War".

None of these had any accompaniment...just the "vocals" on guitar.

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Medley.mp3

GlennLover
10-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Ann,

A while back, I did that medley and added a couple of other segments to it including "Amazing Grace" and "I Dreamed There Was no War". I tacked the "War" song on before I had figured it out completely but never went back and "fixed" it.

I chose these four because to me they all had to do with "War". Mostly, I think of the "Civil War" when I hear these. "Dixie" was the marching song for the Confederates. "Battle Hymn" I associate with the Union. Both were in need of some "Amazing Grace" and Glenn summed it up with "I Dreamed There Was No War".

None of these had any accompaniment...just the "vocals" on guitar.

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Medley.mp3

Thanks for posting that, Mike. Those songs make a nice medley. I enjoyed hearing it.

Prettymaid
10-17-2009, 04:56 PM
When I was growing up Rocky Top was a big radio song sung by Lynn Anderson.

MikeA
10-17-2009, 06:07 PM
I think just about "everyone" has taken a stab at Rocky Top. Even the Everly Brothers.

Roy Clark did a full ensemble of it playing guitar, bass, banjo, fiddle and believe it or not, a trumpet.

With all the songs that have come out of Tennessee over the years, Rocky Top was named one of the Official "State Songs".

Rocky Top has been "up the creek and over the hill" several times and survived.

<LOL>

MikeA
10-19-2009, 09:54 AM
I mentioned earlier that I was having some hassle with monitoring the D.I. (Direct Interface) when recording. I'd been working with a set of wireless headphones, but I never was satisfied with those. There always seemed to be too much interference. I'd tilt my head or something and they would give off a horrible BUZZZZ that overpowered anything that I might have been recording.

So I tried coming out of the interface into my sound card to my surround sound computer audio setup. That worked okay, but it was a real hassle. I had to physically unhook my speaker system from the computer and plug it into the TonePort of the D.I. And then remember to hook it back up to the sound card when done. I listen to a lot of MP3 stuff and do not have a computer completely dedicated to recording. This was not satisfactory.

I thought I might be able to just hook a dedicated computer speaker system to the D.I. I went to Wally-World and bought a pair of speakers that drew power from the USB port. They sounded HORRIBLE and had no volume to speak of.

I returned those speakers and upgraded to another set that had a powered woofer. That setup was no better than the first one and neither compared to the killer sound system that I have on the computer now! I'm taking these back for a refund too.

I found a much better way that I had at my disposal all along and just hadn't thought about it!

I have a Fender Acoustasonic Jr. amp. It's a VERY clean amp when I kill the reverb and the chorus. My setup now comes out of my VOX AD30VT amp into my mixing board. From there, I go into the USB TonePort D.I. that I use. The USB port on the D.I. feeds the Audio Interface software that provides the signal for recording with my Audacity DAW. I come out of the Analog output on the D.I. and run into the Instrument input on my Fender Acoustasonic. I have to turn the volume DOWN on the Fender to about 1.5 out of 10 unless I'm wanting to peel paint!

But with that setup, I get a very "full" sound that I can monitor and I can adjust the tone knobs on the Acoustasonic to match what's actually being recorded. It's nice because I have volumes and tone controls on my Vox, on my Fender and ALSO on my mixing board. The final volume, I control with the volume knob on the TonePort D.I. It effects ONLY the volume going to the monitoring devices...not the recording volume!

I think I have my setup now. Still have to turn on the Fender If I want to monitor, but with this setup, I can either unplug the Vox from the mixer and play it directly out of the Vox speaker, or I can play it through the Acoustasonic. It's a pretty sweet setup.

TimothyBFan
10-19-2009, 01:01 PM
I took this picture last night just for you Mike and Rhonda.... while the roadie was putting away the instruments, he laid this one out so I was able to take a picture of it. I had seen it before the show sitting in the stand but couldn't get a decent picture of it. Tim's guitarist, Hank Linderman played it. Don't know what kind of guitar it is but just loved the look of it.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/williehoo/Timothy%20B%20Schmit/1018092248.jpg

MikeA
10-19-2009, 02:00 PM
It is a "Dobro". Usually played like a steel guitar with a slide and even with metal finger picks. Players often lay them up in their laps when playing them so they are sometimes called "lap steels".

These guitars are recognized by the metal "resonator" instead of a sound hole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobro. The one you got the picture of looks like a "vintage" instrument...quite old.

How did you manage to get that shot of it? Were you up on stage with them?

TimothyBFan
10-19-2009, 02:10 PM
:hilarious: Yeah, I was on stage and they let me play it! Actually the roadie was getting things put away and he laid it out so that I could get the picture for you.

When Hank played it, he did use a slide. Cathy and I were talking about it before the show and we figured it was some kind of slide guitar. It was definitely my favorite one that was played last night. Very cool!!

MikeA
10-19-2009, 02:14 PM
:hilarious: Yeah, I was on stage and they let me play it! Actually the roadie was getting things put away and he laid it out so that I could get the picture for you.

When Hank played it, he did use a slide. Cathy and I were talking about it before the show and we figured it was some kind of slide guitar. It was definitely my favorite one that was played last night. Very cool!!

That's REALLY cool that they would let you get up there and shoot pics of the gear. Way to GO!

Prettymaid
10-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Here's a picture of Hank playing it from the slideshow that CL posted in the Nashville thread.

http://www.hanklinderman.com/expandolive/13.jpg (http://www.timothybschmit.com/)

MikeA
10-19-2009, 04:40 PM
Yeah Cathy, I've seen them played in the same position as a normal guitar as "Hank" is playing it, but have also seen it held face up with the person's "picking arm" twisted around the strap to hold it in that position.

But then, I've seen guitars held in all sorts of positions...including behind the head <LOL>. Seriously, I've seen people play regular six-string guitars "face up". It's odd to see it, but it happens. Remember that blind guy in "Roadhouse" that that ole "Dirty Dancing" stared in? He played a Fender I believe, "face-up".

Prettymaid
10-19-2009, 04:57 PM
Yup, that was Jeff Healey. Here's a photo of him from Wiki.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/JeffHealeyAug312002.jpg/220px-JeffHealeyAug312002.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JeffHealeyAug312002.jpg)

He died last year from cancer at the age of 41. How sad.

MikeA
10-19-2009, 05:06 PM
I can't imagine WHY things like that catch my eye Cathy <LOL> Not laughing about his death....nor that of Patrick Swazey. Both were sad.

But I pick up on things like that guitar position. I have noted that while SRV just played like something non-human, his brother Jimmy plays rather unconventionally by using only fingers...seldom if ever uses a pick! I believe Albert King played that way too. Didn't seem to hamper either one of them!

Phil Keagey plays with only three fingers and a thumb on his picking hand. He lost a finger to an old water pump when he was younger. Says it doesn't hamper him any...and if you've ever listened to him play, you'll believe him!

Of course Hendrix played left handed...but played a Strat flipped upside down and strung backwards! He played some of his licks with his right hand on top of the neck instead of under it....I suppose some of that was for show...but I'm also sure that some of it was because with the Strat upside down, he couldn't REACH the upper frets unless he used his hand on top of the neck!

Guitarists generally find a way to make it work for them.

Freypower
10-19-2009, 06:53 PM
Check out the cover of Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms. It's what MK plays on Romeo & Juliet.

bernie's bender
10-19-2009, 07:34 PM
a lap steel and a dobro are different beasts.

A dobro has a resonator (a mechanical amplification system) they typically have 6 strings.

a lap steel is not a resonator and uses a pickup (like an electric guitar) and must be connected to an amplifier to be heard. most lap steels have 8 strings (although some have 6)

A resonator guitar (like a dobro) can be fretted like a guitar, but a lap steel cannot.

not important information... but, the two are different. I know a drummer who always says 'steel pedal' when he means pedal steel... it only matters to people who know and care.

MikeA
10-20-2009, 07:14 AM
Got me on that one Bender. While the Dobro or Resonator guitars are definitely "different beasts", I've always considered basically any guitar played in the face-up position with a slide, a "Lap Steel" guitar.

I guess I've always considered the term "Lap Steel" as being one to refer to the position in which the instrument is played rather than the definition of a unique instrument.

I'm never too old to learn...I hope! Thanks

bernie's bender
10-20-2009, 11:05 AM
yeah, it is all semantics and jargon anyway, right? I only mentioned the difference because you may run into some steelers and they can be very particular about the terms... and unintentionally you can have a debate when none really exists...

http://www.steelguitarcanada.com/img/forsale/Gold%20Tone%20LS8.jpg

I play a little steel, pedal steel and lap steel and man... they are different animals to say the least.... that is why you'll see someone like jerry 'flux' douglas play dobro, but never steel or pedal steel... very different approaches... or Dave Lindley doesn't play pedal steel he sticks to lap steel.

you usually see the all metal dobros used by blues guys and the wood dobros in bluegrass and old timey music... I think that is a tone thing... the other difference is many of the wood dobros have square necks and can only be played as dobros while the metal nationals can be played like guitar...

a really good example of dobro being played like a guitar is Les Dudek's "oh baby" on the record with "old judge jones"... he tears it up.

TimothyBFan
10-24-2009, 03:39 PM
This is one of the pics on Hank Linderman's website of the Expando mini tour and I really like the guitar (the guy playing it isn't to bad either ;-)). You know I know nothing about them, thought maybe someone could shed some light on what it is.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/williehoo/Timothy%20B%20Schmit/Expando-1.jpg

MikeA
10-24-2009, 04:14 PM
Looks like a Telecaster to me. It does have a strange finish....like an ole apple crate or something, but I'm sure it's Ash. Can't make out the headstock to be positive though.

WAIT A MINUTE Willie! Is that a BASS?

bernie's bender
10-24-2009, 05:37 PM
it looks like a danelectro body style... but it is probably a parts instrument...

It isn't a guitar, it is a bass, right? (counting strings... I count 4... geetars have 5, 6, 7, 10, 12 or 18)

I'd bet money it is a 'partscaster' (my favorite) where you take some existing parts and make your own other parts and it becomes an instrument of your own creation!

http://seawebmedia.com/assets/images/GUITAR_Danelectro_bass_2.jpg

fatdog at subway guitars in berkeley used to make an animule like'at one.

MikeA
10-24-2009, 06:21 PM
You could sure be right. From what can be seen of the headstock, it looks like it tapers to a smaller top than a Fender. I'm not sure about the Danalectro though...it looks like it has tuning pegs on both sides of the headstock.
And the switches and Tone And volume are different than a DE....that part looks Telecaster.

I'll go with your assessment....a "partsocaster".

bernie's bender
10-24-2009, 06:39 PM
yeah.. that isn't a commodity device like a regular dano or tele... it is a banged together groove machine.

MikeA
11-08-2009, 12:41 PM
With 'Life Of Illusion" being spotlighted in its own thread, I started messing around with it. I found a TAB of it out on the Internet but it wasn't really right. It was re-keyed to fit "normal people's" voices <LOL> It was TAB'd in "C" I believe but you could really tell the difference in the song when listening to that signature riff at the beginning. It was WAY too high.

I listed closely to the recorded version of the song. Joe sings in in the key of "G"....REALLY HIGH, but that opening note in the riff just doesn't exist on a normally tuned guitar. It is a low "D".

I first tried playing the thing with a drop-D tuning but the riff was really weird when played that way though it could be done.

Then I got to thinking, what if I de-tuned the entire guitar down two semitones! That would put the riff easily accessible. But I was left with playing the song using the right chords down in "F". That wasn't right!

So, I bumpped the chord shapes up so that for all intents and purposes, I was playing it in "A", but the lowered tunings brought the actual key back to "G"...just the way Joe played and sang it!

I wonder if that is the way he actually recorded it. It sounds something like this...however, I have one note that is off in the riff and I know what to do about it but am too lazy to go back and redo it. The chords for the key of "G", if you want to play the entire song this way, are "A", "B" and "E". They sound pretty good on the open frets (except for that fly-away high "D" that I didn't get muted.)

http://mvabercrombie.net/Life%20Of%20Illusion.mp3

bernie's bender
11-09-2009, 12:46 AM
this is in G although... (http://www.guitartabs.cc/tabs/j/joe_walsh/a_life_of_illusion_tab.html)

the original recording sounds like it is in open G tuning... or 'slack key'.. pretty sure of this... it will give you your 1 chord in open position... so your 4 chord is at the 5th fret and your 5 chord is at the 7th...

dgdgbd

so, the riff in the link could be moved down to the low 'e' string and you'd sound about right... it sounds like maybe a harmonizer on the original.. you could try some fairly wobbly chorus or light Flanger if you don't have a harmonizer...

MikeA
11-09-2009, 08:33 AM
this is in G although... (http://www.guitartabs.cc/tabs/j/joe_walsh/a_life_of_illusion_tab.html)

the original recording sounds like it is in open G tuning... or 'slack key'.. pretty sure of this... it will give you your 1 chord in open position... so your 4 chord is at the 5th fret and your 5 chord is at the 7th...

dgdgbd

so, the riff in the link could be moved down to the low 'e' string and you'd sound about right... it sounds like maybe a harmonizer on the original.. you could try some fairly wobbly chorus or light Flanger if you don't have a harmonizer...

"That" would do it wouldn't it! And it makes more sense than transcribing it into a different key to make it "sound" like "G". I'll play around with that and see what sounds the best. "Open-G"....hmmm...."slack" reaching "down" instead of "up" to get the "G". That's how much of a musician I am. I hadn't even heard of "Slack Tuning" until you mentioned it and I looked it up.

bernie's bender
11-09-2009, 11:02 AM
I learn four or five things I never knew just about every day....

it makes waking up all the better!

now, when you are in that tuning... barre the 5th fret and (don't hit the 6th string) hammer on a minor 7th (like an Am7 but at the 5th fret making a Dm7)

if you've never done that... well, you just played one of the major sounds the rolling stones made famous...

open G is a cool way of playing lyin' eyes too... and take it easy.... and tequila sunrise...

MikeA
11-09-2009, 11:13 AM
Well, I'm a 61-yr-old STUDENT and what I've picked up has been hard fought and not necessarily victorious! But my mistakes and ineptness will never stop me from trying as long as I can grip the neck!

It's pretty amazing what you can do with a guitar once you break out of the "box".

Anything you recall and can put into text, I'll be trying to absorb.

Thanks!

bernie's bender
11-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Miguel,

I was in Austin last week for meetings and a colleague/buddy who has taken up guitar (I got him a tele) and I were talking about playing and he said, "hey, we have like two hours between meetings... would you show me some theory stuff?"

I gave him what I call my 20 minute theory primer that takes 5 years to absorb. He started laughing when we were done (he is a very bright engineer and a great young guy) and he said, "it is just math."

and it is. He saw how things 'move' on the fretboard and how songs kind of have to resolve and have certain elements or they sound strange and then I told him that once he gets this part, a whole other part exists that will really blow his mind....

I do a demo for people with my iphone with a rubiks cube. (remember those?) Anyway, most people don't ever solve them so a guy wrote an app for the iphone where you can take a picture (seriously, no joke) of each of the faces and it will tell you step by step how to solve what you've got...

There are guys all over at Stanford and other universities who use it to teach group theory etc... It is pretty neat. Anyway, folks seem to think that solving one is either time consuming or nearly impossible, but it isn't it is lots of little challenges posing as a big challenge... and if a guy understands the theory... it is not so hard and just represents an understanding and ability to apply the concepts.

Guitar is kind of like that... not everyone can be Don Felder... but, with a little theory stuff is less mysterious and stuff comes easier.

MikeA
11-09-2009, 12:34 PM
I spent a lot of time (still do) learning the very BASICS. I'm talking about the bare bones...like how scales are determined...you know HWWHWWW. Then putting those together to get the I III IV and V and sometimes the VII for progressions.

I "invented" a sliderule for scales in the Pentonic as well as..well, you can take a look if you like at the link below. Construction steps are provided. It's made of the backs of notebooks (the old fashioned type...not notebook computers <LOL>)

http://mvabercrombie.net/Music/Scales/Scale%20Slide/Scale%20Slide.html

I'm sure you wouldn't need it, but it might come in handy for someone trying to learn the scales.

It all hasn't come together for me but I definitely see the relationship to Mathematics.

Interesting....The company I am with now started out back in 1968. I came on board with them in 1970 and am still with what was the nucleus of that group though it had been bought and sold three times now.

Anyway, back in the Sixties and most of the 70's, there wasn't anything like a degree in Computer Sciences in Colleges. Our company needed good programmers for all who were doing that line of work were, like me, self-taught for the most part. What was surprising is that one of the primary resume items for a College Grad was that they had at LEAST a "minor" in some area of "Music". It didn't matter what. It's just that the same aptitude in understanding Music Theory is also applicable in solving computer logic problems!

Glennsallnighter
11-09-2009, 06:19 PM
I teach Maths and always had an aptitude for numbers and I play music. I know what Mike means. There is basic maths in Musical forms.

MikeA
11-16-2009, 12:45 PM
With the addition of the new Les Paul, I really had no need for the FrankenStrat that I bought on a whim a decade ago.

But after listening to some of the work that Collin Brooks did on Dobro with the "Band of Heathens", I thought that I might re-rig the Fender for slide.

I raised the action at the bridge about as high as it will go. I have tried a couple of tunings (open "G" and open "D"). Of the two, I like to work in "D" best so far.

I have a 18mm x 60mm chrome slide that I really don't like. I'm thinking I'll probably use my pinky for the slide so I ordered a 17mm x 51mm Dunlop pyrex slide (heavy walled).

I get a lot of buzz on the bass string down-tuned to "D" so I ordered a set of .013 gauge strings for the Fender.

There's just so much with a guitar once you get outside the box. I wish that I'd started all this stuff seriously 50 years ago!

Maleah
11-16-2009, 02:55 PM
Well, I guess all of that explains why I'm having a very hard time catching onto everything with the guitar. I'm horrible at math. lol!

MikeA
11-19-2009, 11:24 AM
<LOL>

I've got two songs that are semi-recognizable that I can play with a slide. Amazing Grace and the Star Spangled Banner. You have to try HARD to recognize them though!

Haven't gotten the glass slides in yet. I ordered another one off of eBay. It's one of the medicine bottle replicas.

TimothyBFan
11-19-2009, 11:34 AM
Since it came up in another thread this past weekend, I've been wanting to get in this thread and ask about it.

The "cigar box guitar"---- why? What's the purpose of it? Different sound or something? And is it really made from a cigar box? I sure found it very interesting to check out when I saw it Saturday night but really didn't pay any attention to that fact it may have sounded different or whatnot.

MikeA
11-19-2009, 11:43 AM
That's a good question Willie. I don't know the answer for sure, but I suspect that it was a combination of several things and I doubt that anything having to do with resonance was a real factor.

I'd imagine that he wanted to combine Bass and a "normal" guitar into one rig without having a double neck approach to it. Plus, I'd think he might have been after the novelty too. But who knows. It may be some deep dark musician's secret that cigar boxes have better resonance than any other material....I kinda sort of doubt that though.

Folksie type music...especially the Mountain Country type stuff (i.e. Hillbilly) can involved some pretty strange instrumentation! My son was telling me about something one of the local groups used here at a performance. I think he said it was a wash-tub with bass strings strung on it, a mic tucked inside it and played as a bass. Said it had a totally unique sound...now, I don't know what "totally unique" could mean <LOL>. But I'll bet it was at least interesting!

MikeA
11-20-2009, 06:57 PM
Well, finally, I'm pretty well set up to start really working on "slide" guitar. I mentioned before that I have a Fender "Prodigy" that I'm dedicating to slide. I've raised the action well off the fretboard. I've retuned to Open-"G". And I was beginning to pick up a few tidbits with my metal slide.

But I was getting a lot of buzzing with my Super Slinkys <LOL> These are like .009" on the high "e" string. Really light weight. For slide playing, you generally want heavy strings.

So, I bought a set of .013" strings (high "e"). The Bass string is like .054"....about the size of the cables that they use to suspend bridges over the San Fransisco Bay!

Did I mention that the FrakenStrat has a Floyd Rose bridge? A bridge that "floats" so you can really do deep dives with a whammy bar? Always hated that bridge. Just resting the heel of hour hand on it causes it to change pitch! I had stronger springs loaded on the bridge to hold it flat so it wasn't "that" sensitive and forgot about it. Never used the whammy anyway.

Well, I put those .013" strings on the Fender and by the time I put the bass string on, the high "e" had dropped in tune to about a "C"! So I tightened it and proceeded to tighten the rest of the strings and rechecked the high "e". It was back down to a "C" again! Man, I'm thinking these strings REALLY were stretching! Then I happened to notice the bridge! That thing was sticking up about an INCH above the surface of the guitar <LOL>

The string tension with the heavier strings was overpowering even the overloaded springs I had put on the bridge!

But after thinking about it, I figured out a solution. I put the whammy bar on backwards and tied it DOWN to the strap button on the end of the axe! I used a color coded coat hanger to tie it down <LOL> But it WORKS!

I'm not tuning any of the strings higher than the Standard Tuning. Not so far anyway. It's holding tune with the coathanger.

Here's a pic of the luthier work I've done on it:

http://mvabercrombie.net/FrakenStratSmall.jpg

MikeA
11-22-2009, 08:28 AM
BerniesBender or some of your other accomplished guitarists out there:

I've got a question.

I can see why in some cases, you would want to use open tunings when playing solo type stuff with a slide, and I can see where when playing Major Chords when tuned to a major tuning is much easier.

Forget the slide for a moment though. Say you are tuned to Open-G or Open-D; How in the world do you get a 7th or a Minor chord out of it. I've seen fingerings for those chords and my hands just will not contort to make those fret spanding spreads! There are TONS of positions on the neck where the chord you are after (say D7 in Open G) but none of them are really practical. At least they do not "seem practical" to me.

Am I missing something? Probably AM! I uploaded a fingering chart for D7 in Open-G tuning as an example.

bernie's bender
11-22-2009, 11:47 AM
The chords in that chart are pretty dang big (as in lots of notes!)

my suggestion to most folks is that since stringed instruments are 'tempered' tuning (meaning that they are never truly 'in tune') playing large clusters of notes 'ganged' together is usually not tonally satisfying.

In other words, strumming all six strings is usually not a good idea.

Also, the idea behind 'open' tunings is for using a slide and/or having lots of strings open to ring. Open tunings aren't a replacement for standard tuning just another way to approach some songs.

Now to your answer: The easiest way to play D7 in open G tuning is

0X0214 (the 4 can be left out, just don't play it) lets see that gives you two D's (you only need one at a time so don't play them both simultaneously) an A, a C, and the F#. The F# is the sweetness of a D chord... pushed against that C though in a D7 gives it that nastiness that sounds bluesy and pushes the turnaround. If you leave the F# out, the chord will sound sweeter and less "7th-ey" but it will fulfill what you need.

easy chords in open tuning (http://www.alanhorvath.com/images/Gchart.jpg)

One key thing to remember is that the whole deal with open tunings is to make things 'easy'... lots of one and two finger chords... if you are looking at pretzel chords, you can bet that Neil Young didn't play them... the goal was big airy chords with few fingers and lots of open strings...

hope this helps.

MikeA
11-27-2009, 07:38 PM
I haven't added vocals to this one yet, but it is a style of playing that I've never been any good at. What I ended up with seems acceptable to me. Some of my Family in Arkansas requested that I record it for them.

"Puff The Magic Dragon"

I used to bang away at the chords on this one back when I was a kid with my first guitar.

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Puff Instrument.mp3

Prettymaid
11-30-2009, 09:29 PM
Good job Mike!
I was singing along!

:singer: Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee

Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff, ...

MikeA
12-08-2009, 12:11 PM
I don't remember PBS TV airing so much of Peter, Paul & Mary's music as they have these past couple of weeks. Put me in a very nostalgic mood and I thought that I'd try to get some of that finger picking down that Peter and Paul did so well.

Here is one that I used to play around with a lot back in the 60's. Please forgive the sour notes every now and again...and again, and again <LOL>

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Man%20Of%20Constant%20Sorrow.mp3

MikeA
12-27-2009, 09:20 AM
I did get a bit more gear for Christmas this year. My kids gave me a boom-mic stand and a hard case for my Les Paul. YEA!!!!!!

MikeA
12-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Okay, obviously I'm not rocket scientist! In another thread, something was mentioned about recognizing a track on a 33-1/3 RPM vinyl album by the radial width of the track. I questioned if the width was directly proportional to the length of the song or whether it might also be determined by WHERE on the disk the track resided.

I recalled that there was a "fad" or technological development back in the 70's that had audiophiles arguing. It was the introduction of radial arm turntables that provided zero tracking error. There was an angular error introduced by the arms on turntables that pivoted from a somewhere completely outside the circumference of the record itself. With a radial arm, the stylus would always be 90* to the groove being tracked and supposedly, the utilize the same angle that the recording was originally recorded at. I do remember that the radial arm turntables were one of the "status symbols" of the audiophile back in the day. I auditioned them many times side by side through the same speakers or heahphones and I was never able to discern any audiable difference.

But back to the question raised it that other topic. Thinking about the physics of the vinyl records makes my HEAD SPIN! I think I can "see" it in my head, but speaking of it in "words" and getting the meaning across without graphics might prove to be more than my "intellect" can cope with :headscratch:

A "record" spins at the same speed...33-1/3 revolutions per minute...or therebouts (33-1/3rpm isn't the exact speed they are pressed at, but that is the nomenclature used by the industry. You can read up on it in Wikipedia if you are interested...quite a history exists dating back into the 1880's I think).

But generally speaking, if you mark a spot on the outside rim of a vinyl record and one on the inside close to the center, it will take each spot somewhere around 1.8 seconds to travel around the turntable and return to the spot where you started. The travel time is EXACTLY the same for both spots in terms of time regardless of the actual speed of rotation.

Now, switch gears and think in terms of the circumference of those two circles (the one the mark on the outer rim of the record and the one on the inner rim). If you measured the arc of a 5 second segment of a groove on the outside compared the the arc of a 5 second segment of a groove on the inner part, the arc of the outer circle would be longer than that of the arc of the inner circle. Yet BOTH would contain 5 seconds of recording time! Think in terms of a baked pie with a wedge removed by some hungry eater. The angular size of the removed wedge could represent a 5 second arc. The outer crust is much larger in size than say, a bite sized piece on the tip that came from the center.

On the record, the outer circle or groove has more linear distance in which to record that 5 second segment. Yet, that same 5 second segment is also contained in a much smaller radial segment on the inner part of the record. That means that the SAME amount of recording TIME is contained in the circumference of both the inner and outer grooves.

Therefore, it would take exactly the same NUMBER of grooves on the outer part as it would take on the inner part of the record to record the same amount of TIME. From that, the statement that NANCY made is CORRECT. The more grooves, the longer the track no matter WHERE on the Vinyl it is located!

That does bring up another point though concerning the limitations of a LP vinyl recording. This is in addition to the angular problem addressed by the radial arm stylus holder. That addressed the problem with the elliptical stylus that comes into contact with the grooves. The radial arm insures that the elliptical stylus always sits at a 90* angle inside the groove and therefore tracks in such a way as to pick up the variations in the walls of the groove as perfectly as a mechanical device could be expected to do. With an arm that pivots, the elliptical stylus gets further away from that 90* angle as it moves radially from whatever point the arm was designed to hold the stylus at a perfect 90* angle. As I stated before, I could never really discern the problem that the radial arm was supposed to solve, but there may be people with a more critically accurate ear than I have who could tell the difference.

No, the other problem is one that I was able to hear! The example I'm going to give is a wild exaggeration that illustrates the issue. I used to have a reel to reel tape recorder. This was BEFORE the cassette players were available to audiophiles. There were three speeds that the owner of the recorder could use when recording. There was 7-1/2" per second, 3-3/4" per second and 1-7/8" per second I believe.

The faster the speed, the more the linear distance was needed to record a given amount of time. For example, maybe it would take 12" of tape to record a 5 second audio segment at 7-1/2ips. At 3-3/4ips, that same 5 second segment would take only 6" of tape and 1-7/8ips it would take only 3" to record it.

But there was a price to be paid and that was in the "fidelity" of the recording. 7-1/2ips recordings were MUCH better than 1-7/8ips recordings! Fidelity, especially the 'high frequencies" were lost with the slow speeds.

To a lesser degree, the SAME THING is true with the vinyl LP. The fidelity on the inner grooves was not as great as the fidelity of the grooves on the outer grooves! This was from the same cause as the loss in fidelity between the longer lengths of tape that the 7-1/2ips recordings had to record a segment.

Without repeating myself about the outer and inner grooves, the liner distance is greater on the outer grooves which makes them correspond to the 7-1/2ips tape speed versus the inner grooves which would correspond to the 1-7/8ips tapes!

Thank GOD that the degradation of fidelity was nowhere as apparent with the location of the grooves on an LP as it was between the extremes of tape speeds! Yet, the problem was there though it was seldom though about by audiophiles! It makes one wonder how much difference to an audiophile a hit recording would have been had it been cut on the inner grooves instead of the outer grooves? There was no way of knowing of course because there was nothing to compare the final pressings to (that was sacred ground that only the producer of an LP was privy too!)

To take this whole "fidelity" thing further...Compact Disk (CDs) eliminated that problem of inner and outer grooves. With CDs the platter can be slowed down or sped up so that the recording could be made proportional regardless as to where on the physical media it was located! The technology made it possible to slow down the rpm of the CD so that a 5-second segment traversed the same distance on the outer "groove" as the same 5-second segment on an inner "groove". BINGO! No loss of fidelity!

Ain't technology wonderful? Okay, back to regretful anticipation of having to go back to work tomorrow <LOL>

MikeA
12-27-2009, 12:23 PM
Wow, I'm taking off on some tangents today! I started thinking about the old gear I was at one time very proud of!

Back in the late 50's and 60's, I constantly has a transistor radio glued to my ear...you may remember them...a little larger than a pack of cigarettes and had a telescoping antenna about two feet long projecting from the top of them. Fidelity was horrible, but back then, AM broadcasts were all that was available so other than sounding "tinny" to the ear and overlaid by static, they were "the thing" to have!

I was maybe Twenty before I could allocate enough money to get a good stereo system. At the time, it didn't include any kind of recording equipment. Just a receiver (amp and tuner combined into one "box") and a pair of Scot bookshelf speakers and a Dual 1010s turntable. Oh how I loved that thing! it brought the music of the late 60's to LIFE!

At some point, probably aroudn 1970, I got my hands on a Realistic Reel To Reel tape recorder with three speeds. I've already discussed those and how the faster the speed, the closer to the original vinyl they recorded and reproduced the sound. I had bookshelves crammed with 7" reels and the floor around the walls stacked with original vinyl LPs (Long Play Records or Albums).

The sound on those 7-1/2ips recordings was surprisingly good, but anyone with a halfway sensitive ear could tell that the recording was never as good as the original....and a recording of a recording always lost fidelity on the new generations.

I don't remember when Dolby was introduced to recover the fidelity lost during the recording process. It was an artificial means of encoding the recordings but it was very effective in removing "tape hiss" inerrant in the amateur recording process. With Dolby equipped machines, we could record at 3-3/4ips and get almost as good a recording as with 7-1/2ips without Dolby and store twice as much music on one reel of tape! 1-7/8ips was still pretty much used ONLY for background music or recording speeches or something....not very practical for recording music.

But the somewhere along the way, maybe the mid 70's (??) Cassette tape recorders became available and recordings otherwise available to the public on vinyl were released on Cassette tape. They were always stamped prominently on the cover as to whether they were "Dolby encoded" or not. If you played a Dolby tape on a non-Dolby player, the result was almost always an exaggeration of the high frequencies. It wasn't "natural sounding".

Cassette Players were nearly always (I never heard of any exceptions) provided with only one speed...1-7/8ips. But with Dolby technology, the recordings were pretty good in fidelity even at the lower speeds. AND with the smaller size of both the players and the tapes themselves, cassettes quickly became popular with audiophiles...though all of the folks I hung out with still were of the opinion that a reel-to-reel was superior...just not as convenient. And, there were not too many reel-to-reel players in automobiles! The advantage of being able to play the recordings while driving weighed heavily in the choice of switching from R2R to Cassette!

Eight Track tapes were in the mix somewhere in there. While unbelievably popular for use in automobiles, I always felt they were too complicated. While tape-jams in the cassette players happened, with 8-track, they not only happened but were common occurrences. And I didn't know of anyone who had an 8-track recorder. I dismissed 8-track as a venture down a dead end path.

The late 70's and 80's were sort of blurry for me when I try to recall all of the technological advances being made. There was of course the blooming technology of Personal Computing. I got into that in the early Eighties and somewhere along during that time, I remember CDs becoming a GIANT KILLER with vinyl being the GIANT being killed. Oh how we fought that advance back then! CDs did not sound as good as Vinyl. At least that was our story and we were sticking to it! Man, I can still remember the heated debates we had over that! Maybe there was some truth to it in the early days of the CD (Compact Disk) because of the switch from analog recordings to digital recordings.

Thinking back, I can't honestly say that there was that much difference that I could discern, but I hated the loss of all the Ritual we went through with vinyl. We had our "Vac-U-Rec" machines to suck off the looser dust particals. We had our "DiscWashers" to "scrub" those particles that had embedded in the grooves. We had Zero Static guns that we blasted the vinyl with to remove static buildup on the platters. We had many of the same type things and rituals we went through with our R2R recorders and Cassette Recorders too. Especially special tapes that cleaned the heads and demagnetizers we hit the recording and playback heads with.

We fought giving up all those audiophile rituals (I can't think of a better word to describe them!) Part of That ritual applied to the care with which we handled our vinyl possessions! Never EVER touch anything other than the outside edges and the center where the label was! We NEVER stacked a record on an automatic spindle that would drop one record on top of another one. When we bought an album, we'd play it through one time to "clean out the grooves" and then the second time we played it, we recorded it either to R2R or to Cassette. Then when we put the album away in storage, we would first put it inside the sleeve and the rotate the sleeve 90* before sliding it into the cover (to keep dust off the vinyl!) We pretty much worshiped vinyl!

CDs changed all that. Or at least they vastly improved it. They were much less likely to become damaged...less likely to develop pops and skips than vinyl and without immaculate care taken in handling, were much longer lasting. They didn't jam up in a car player. Well, that's not entirely true as I have had to pretty much disassemble a car CD player to get a CD out of it that became wedged in to the player. But it didn't happen nearly as often as the jamming of any format of tape player.

I didn't swing over to CDs until it became economically feasible to use them for home recording! That pretty much demanded that you had a computer to digitize the recording before burning it. But computers were advancing by leaps and bounds in the 80's and 90's and the technology became both practical and economically logical for the audiophile. The "audiophile" as we were back in the Seventies just didn't exist in the 90's to any degree. No one seemed to care about investing lovingly into audio equipment like we did "back in the day". Not saying that is necessarily a "bad thing". But there was a price paid by those of us who considered ourselves audiophiles. No longer would we sit around and discuss the "Wow And Flutter" of a turntable or a tape deck. No longer would we be hanging out talking about the latest Amplifier for a home stereo audiophile system or the latest and greatest speakers that just hit the Audio Shop. We would spend hours in those shops listing to all of the combinations of speakers and amps and turntables and tape machines!

It (Audiophileism (don't look it up....I made the word up!) got even more degraded when MP3 technology hit the computer industry and iPod became the craze!

Then the DVD hit! That took CDs to another level by adding video to the mix!

What's next? "BluRay" technology maybe? I think that right now BluRay is at about the same level as the early CDs were. WAY too expensive for most people to afford for recording or burning capability. But I think that it might catch on and be "The Next" advancement. Good grief, with the ability to store 50 gigabytes on a single recording media, it will blow away the CD for the home recording affectionado! A CD basically will hold around 750 or 800 megabytes. I'm not even sure what a DVD will hold, but I do know that for shear storage capacity, a BluRay device just completely blows anything else away as a removable media!

We live in a rapidly changing world of technology. I only hope that I am always able to embrace the changes rather than fight them.

MikeA
12-30-2009, 09:54 AM
I was playing around with a new Simon & Garfunkel songbook I just got and took a stab at "Sound Of Silence"

http://mvabercrombie.net/Sound%20Of%20Silence.mp3

sodascouts
12-30-2009, 12:27 PM
Lovely song. Thanks for posting your efforts Mike! I enjoy them.

TimothyBFan
01-15-2010, 09:53 AM
You all know I'm technically stupid when it comes to guitars and the sound they make. I know the difference between a bass and a guitar, that's as far as it goes. I will admit I've learned a lot more on this board tho. Because of this thread in particular, I find myself checking out "gear" now. :hilarious:

That being said, last night I pulled out the Cars Live dvd which I haven't watched for a couple years because the interview that's included was done only a month before Benjamin died of cancer and it just depresses me seeing how he looks in it. While watching it, the first 2 songs Benjamin is using a strange looking bass I've never noticed or think I've seen before. Here's a video from YouTube where he's using it. He tends to use it on the same 2 songs most of the time, Bye Bye Love and Good Times Roll. My question is what kind is it and what kind of special sound does it make on those particular songs or whatever?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbXzAAXOBsY

MikeA
01-15-2010, 10:03 AM
Willie, I know nothing about basses really. That one is certainly nothing that I've seen before. Could be a custom built job.

bernie's bender
01-16-2010, 04:24 AM
it looks like a Vox Bass. (or someone's 'take' on it.)

He could have been playing it for a few reasons: liked the sound, lighter (hollowbody) so more comfortable, wanted a cool Brian Jones/Bill Wyman look (BJ/BW used to play Vox teardrops and phantoms)

It looks kinds of short scale.. those can have some additional punch and less woof... and that would make sense on that song... more staccato... less rubbery...

TimothyBFan
01-17-2010, 08:36 PM
Wow-who knew you could get such different sounds that way. Thanks for the answers guys.

MikeA
03-02-2010, 05:06 PM
It's been a while since I've posted anything in here. I guess the Les Paul was the last thing I got besides some guitar picks.

Today, I received an order from Musician's Friend. I've been wanting a condenser mic for a while and they had a sale on the large diaphragm MXL-992 (made by Marshal). The kicker was that they had this thing marked down $100 from retail and tossed in another $129 mic all for $99.00! Hard to believe my fortune! The big condenser has a low-rolloff switch that cleans up the low end of the frequency range (guitars sometimes boom and rumble in the low frequencies when recording). Also has an attenuator switch on it that kills sensitivity a bit if you are wanting to record really close to a loud amp.

The 992 will be a great vocal mic and will do a very good job picking up the air in front of an amp...especially on chords. Either will do a good job on higher end picking, but chords are difficult for me to get captured to where they sound like they did when I played them!

The second pic is the MXL-603s...a pencil mic with a small diaphragm. It's a condenser also. Actually, the quality of sound is as good as that from the MXL-992 as long as you are not worried about rumble or booming in the bass range. I was really surprised at the way it records. I'm thinking this will be a good mic to position somewhere around the 12th fret on my acoustic guitar.

http://mvabercrombie.net/mv2guest/MXL992.jpg
http://mvabercrombie.net/mv2guest/MXL603.jpg

MikeA
03-10-2010, 03:23 PM
I recorded this this morning while IM'ing a fellow Borderer. It's just pieces of CCR's "Born On The Bayou" with a couple of the solo parts laminated together with some chord progressions. I caught this one with my new MXL 992 condenser mic using a model of an AC30 with around 40% gain for the distortion.

It's in my "signature" so I won't repeat the link here.

bernie's bender
03-11-2010, 01:08 AM
nice! I like those MXL's.

I think there are hot rod mods for them too....

are you using a preamp?

MikeA
03-11-2010, 09:50 AM
I have heard of MXLs for a long time, but was not aware that Marshal made them. They get mixed reviews, but from what I've been able to find out, the MXL 992 was a significant improvement over the 990. I was surprised at the quality of that "free" 603s that was tossed into the Musician's Friend package.

No. I'm not using a preamp. I just plug the mic into a Peavey PV8 mixing board. It has 48v Phantom Power on it. I usually bypass the effects processor on "Gearbox" and just record it the way the mic picks it up. But I do have the option of several modeled mic preamps in Gearbox and have used some of them for compression or a little reverb. Mostly though, I just let the VOX amp introduce everything into the sound signal. I like the sound of that amp. I do wish I had a 4x12 speaker cab though. I can model those cabs but a model really doesn't sound the same as the brick and mortar cabs....anyone telling you otherwise would be someone whose ear I would question <LOL>

Miking amps is an art isn't it! Position is everything! That -10db switch comes in handy if you really want to pick up all the amp has but don't want to pick up the central heating fan as well. Shove it close and cut the sensitivity with that switch! I like that low-cut 10db switch too. Sometimes, getting the mic close to the amp will exacerbate the bass rumble too much. That's problem I've had for years with dynamic mics.

bernie's bender
03-11-2010, 03:50 PM
most modern studios would be raising eyebrows at 4X12's!

Unless you use 4 mics... right? if it is just sound pressure you are looking for there are some tricks to getting that...

remember that those zeppelin records were made with a bunch of supro amps with 1X8's! and 1X10's! using a telecaster... there are so many kids who went out and bought stacks and les pauls chasing that sound.

one of the prettiest and nastiest sounds the eagles got imo was on one of these nights... I think they had a randall smith modded deluxe on that one...

I dig the el84 sound of the vox, but, if you have amp farm or the models in logic studio... I've not met anyone who could consistently pick between model and real... especially with mic'ing involved.

There are some pretty cool reamping (http://www.reamp.com/) boxes out there that do a nice job. I know Jimmy Wilsey (the guitar player on 'Wicked Game' uses one.... here is a 'sound' trivia question (don't go look it up or you spoil the game) on Chris Isaak's Wicked Game... what guitar and amp did Jimmy use?

(I'll know if you cheat) ha ha!

MikeA
03-11-2010, 05:48 PM
I can MODEL a 4x12. But no matter what I do with the modeling in my VOX amp, it is still going to be coming out of an 8" speaker (or 10" or whatever it is). That speaker isn't going to move air the same way as a premium speaker....A Celestion, or one of the other higher end speakers. I doubt that VOX put a premium speaker in my AD30VT amp.

That's what I was getting at. The Modeling makes an attempt to produce the sound of a 4x12 but the result is put out by whatever real speaker is in the amp.

I do know what you are talking about with the small studio amps. But they are miking the sound for that and it would sound different if they used some other amp.....or the same amp head but a different speaker.

Does that make sense?

Ultimately, whatever you hear is influenced by whatever speaker you are hearing it from. And anything you record is going to be a little different contingent upon the speaker that you are recording. Right?

MikeA
03-14-2010, 09:47 AM
I ought to redo this. The vocals anyway. I was singing it for Miles and recorded it so he could learn the words. You'd think that if someone was going to teach lyrics to someone, they'd get them right! Oh well, by the time he is recording himself, he'll undoubtedly learn the correctly <LOL>

I used my Yamaha electronic drum pads to create the drum loop. The rhythm track, I recorded out of my VOX amp using my Epiphone Sheraton II on a clean neck pickup. I used the little 603s microphone for the Epi.

I recorded the accent guitar using the MXL 992 mic and the VOX amp but used the bridge pickup with some distortion with the AC30 amp model I think.

I used the 992 mic for the vocals too. Miles got a kick out of the "talked" parts <LOL>.

Don't expect John Fogerty. For that matter, don't expect a version of "Bayou" that has likely EVER been done before!

http://mvabercrombie.net/Born%20On%20The%20Bayou%20Vocal.mp3

Prettymaid
03-14-2010, 11:57 AM
I enjoyed that Mike! :applause:

MikeA
03-14-2010, 12:35 PM
I meant to include a photo of my "Pop Filter". I didn't want to wait around for shipment of a $20 filter (or much higher!) so I made one.

http://mvabercrombie.net/Music/2010_0302_mic/mar3003.jpg

http://mvabercrombie.net/Music/2010_0302_mic/mar35.jpg

Okay, it's crude. But the dang thing actually works! I've seem some odd things men use panty hose for, but this one took the cake!

The thing is, that when I use the filter, I don't get any of those "plosives" when saying something like "Pop" or "Bayou" and it cuts down the splatter with the "S" sounds (sneeze, sugar, stomp {both S and P on that one}). Those plosives wreck havoc on a microphone....both in the audio wave it picks up that sounds horrible, but it also means that there is a lot of wet air hitting the diaphragm and that will eventually ruin a good mic.

Okay, so there is a light weight coathanger for the frame, the nylon for the filter, a zip-tie to hold the nylon tight, and a scrounged up battery tester clip I found in the garage. Actually, after making the one here that I pictured, I made another just like it but instead of using the toe of the nylons, I cut a section out of the center and used two zip-ties to stretch it over the wire frame. It doesn't work any better than the first one, but looks a little better.

Prettymaid
03-14-2010, 04:42 PM
Aha! I was right! Even before I read your post I knew that Verna was missing a pair a pantyhose! :hilarious:

MikeA
03-14-2010, 07:23 PM
Well Cathy, they dang shore tweren't MINE! <LOL> Verna selected them so it wasn't like I robbed the lingerie drawer! I didn't know they made "toeless" ones or I'd have gotten them. Hmmm, maybe in a nice red color or something!

Ive always been a dreamer
03-14-2010, 08:47 PM
Okay Mike - I definitely think that you are ready for the big time now. All that fancy hi-tech equipment has taken your act to a new level. I hope Miles appreciates that 'Bayou' clip so that he will be able to show everyone when his grandfather was just an ordinary average guy!!! :thumbsup:

MikeA
05-24-2010, 05:59 PM
I knew it wouldn't last. Getting that LP should have ended my obsession with guitars. But now, BB has got me thinking about a Telecaster!

Anyone want to buy a Fender Prodigy?

TimothyBFan
05-25-2010, 09:10 AM
With the clip and zip ties, I thought.... well let's just say.... uhh, forget it! :blush:

MikeA
05-25-2010, 09:42 AM
Boys and their Toys. :rockguitar::rockguitar:

ticky
05-25-2010, 04:38 PM
I went over to my brothers house today with my SG and amp (thanks Mike *G*) and Jammed a bit. He's got a Stratocaster and a killer amp. I made this video of him fartin' around with the blues on my phone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DklWrTTKW-4