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DonFan
10-09-2008, 08:09 AM
Over harmonies of the Eagles came the screeching chords of selfishness



By DAVID ENGLAND October 9, 2008

Dear Mr. Section 311/Row N/Seat 17: I drove to St. Louis on a recent Saturday to see the Eagles at the Scottrade Center. Little did I know, as I made this 600-mile round-trip journey, that I would receive the value-added experience of sitting next to you.


Let me say first that I appreciate your enthusiasm for the finest-ever band of its genre. Clearly, at your tender age, you have adopted this music and made it your own. I was impressed that you knew every word to every song. Even more impressive was your ability to sing along with every song, not just in unison, but in your own crunchy, discordant, sixth-part harmony. I'm sure the Eagles' arrangers would be pounding at your door if they only knew there was an extra dimension the band had been lacking all these years.
http://www.tennessean.com/graphics/adlabel_horz.gif


Your screaming was instructive, as was your clapping. I would never have thought to stand and scream at the top of my voice midway through a verse. I would never have considered I Can't Tell You Why that delicate exploration of a relationship in jeopardy as a clap-along.

I do want to apologize for yelling at you when your random "Whooooooos" rattled my eardrums and actually kept me from hearing the band. But while you were screaming/singing/clapping, here are some of the nuances you may have missed: the quiet virtuosity of Timothy B. Schmit, the accessible versatility of Glenn Frey, the smoldering intensity of Don Henley, the carefully controlled aggression of Joe Walsh. Those of us around you struggled to notice those things, too, because we were too busy noticing you. There are certainly moments when screaming and clapping are called for. If Frey starts clapping over his head instead of playing, that's a good sign it's OK. If no one within 200 feet on either side of you is clapping, however, that's a pretty good sign you shouldn't, either.

You see, when you express your enthusiasm so loudly for so long, it is obvious your only concern is yourself, with no thought to those around you who may have waited far more years than you for this one night with their favorite band. Although this may be difficult to accept, we did not come to see you we came to see the Eagles.

Perhaps it is not your fault. You have grown up in a time when selfishness has taken center stage. A traffic light? If it's yellow or even red, that just means you should speed up to make sure you get through. Fast food? Throw your trash on the street; after all, the city pays people to pick it up.

Selfishness is insidious, and it is getting worse. It is very easy to see in someone else, but as one also guilty at other times, let me thank you, Mr. 311/N/17, for your powerful and distracting reminder that we are better people when we take an extra thought to be courteous to others.
And to the Eagles, thank you for what, I think, was a great show.

David England is associate vice president/advancement at Lipscomb University in Tennessee.
---------------------------------------
(I couldn't have said it better myself! Bravo!)

TimothyBFan
10-09-2008, 08:25 AM
That poor man! It's a shame that his experience was hampered by the loud mouth next to him. Why can't people have some consideration for others around them, especially when you know they are shelling out major $$ also for their ticket. I admit, I sang along with every song, but did it to myself and never interrupted anyone else's enjoyment (except Larry-who indeed expected it when I would grab him and say "did you see that, did you hear that?").

Prettymaid
10-09-2008, 08:33 AM
By DAVID ENGLAND October 9, 2008

Perhaps it is not your fault. You have grown up in a time when selfishness has taken center stage. A traffic light? If it's yellow or even red, that just means you should speed up to make sure you get through.

I do agree that the current generation generally is a selfish one (but who's fault is that?) But hurrying through a yellow traffic light? They didn't invent that one!

MikeA
10-09-2008, 08:42 AM
That is a hard one to call. I've experienced it from both sides as one who has been distracted by a neighboring fan who thought that it was required that he sing the song about three counts ahead of the band so that everyone would KNOW that he knew the song better than the band. But I've also been in a situation where I was in the middle of a group of folks (hard to call them fans) who sat through the entire concert like an Old Stone Wall out in a Meadow. And they got belligerent when we got into the music.

There is a place somewhere between Opera and Riot that should be adhered to when attending a Rock Concert. I think that point varies depending on the general level of enthusiasm expressed by those in attendance and in particular those seated close to you. It is difficult to sit in your seat with your hands carefully folded when the Eagles crank up Life In The Fast Lane or Take It Easy. But by the same token, you shouldn't be swinging from the chandeliers when they are doing Desperado.

Prettymaid
10-09-2008, 08:57 AM
I defintely understand the magic of being in a hall or arena where your favorite band is playing your favorite music. It is possible to go into your own little world. Sometimes it's almost an out of body experience! But you have to have somewhere in your inner self a certain amount of respect for people, and if you do that just naturally takes precedence over anything else.

DonFan
10-09-2008, 09:55 AM
I completely agree with you, Mike. As the reviewer pointed out:

"There are certainly moments when screaming and clapping are called for. If Frey starts clapping over his head instead of playing, that's a good sign it's OK. If no one within 200 feet on either side of you is clapping, however, that's a pretty good sign you shouldn't, either."

Unfortunately, the bad behavior the reviewer wrote about is one reason why my hubby won't attend Eagles concerts with me anymore. I have attended more concerts than he has so I tend to take this kind of thing with a grain of salt if at all possible. Anyway, he had the distinct misfortune, on the initial two Eagles concerts I took him to, to be sitting beside obnoxious fans who were continually getting up & down to buy beer, guzzle beer, empty beer and buy more beer, sing off-key and throw their arm around hubby's shoulders while telling him how AWESOME the Eagles were. (Of course, hubby already had to listen to me telling him the same thing on the trip to the concert.) As a casual fan attending with his wife, hubby said listening to their perfect harmonies on the CD player would be quite enough for him from now on, thank you.

DonFan
10-09-2008, 10:06 AM
On a positive note, I love this description of the guys:
"The quiet virtuosity of Timothy B. Schmit, the accessible versatility of Glenn Frey, the smoldering intensity of Don Henley."

Timothy, Glenn and Don he got right. I don't really think Joe has "controlled aggression," however. :?:

StephUK
10-09-2008, 10:42 AM
To add my 4-penny worth....

At one show we had a guy next to us who had obviously drank more than was good for him; before the show even began he had managed to elbow my friend in the head(quite hard) & then stand on her foot. Then he spilled his beer onto my foot.
In his drunken state he'd have been better to have sat down instead of standing & waving his arms about, but no, that didn't occur to him.

Then during the 2nd part of the show, he started fighting with the guy next to him(who had come to the show with him). Did they fight in front of their own seats? of course not - they had to stand up & do it in front of us. Luckily the ' drunken pain in the arse' decided to leave at this point & didn't come back.
You may be wondering where the security people were? Probably too busy making sure that real fans didn't get any photos.

IF YOU PREFER GETTING DRUNK TO SEEING A BAND ......GO TO A BAR INSTEAD and leave the rest of us to enjoy our evening.

Steph

sodascouts
10-09-2008, 10:49 AM
Ugh, I'm sorry guys, I can't get into the spirit of this so-called review, where he's more concerned with criticizing fellow fans than telling us about the concert.


Perhaps it is not your fault. You have grown up in a time when selfishness has taken center stage. A traffic light? If it's yellow or even red, that just means you should speed up to make sure you get through. Fast food? Throw your trash on the street; after all, the city pays people to pick it up.Hate to break it to you David, but as PM says, people have been speeding through yellow lights since they were invented. Same with litter... when did littering become enough of a problem for the posting of "Don't Litter" signs, Mr. England? Those signs have been around as long as I can remember, and I'm over 30.

About concert behavior... here's the thing. Most people resist the obviously obnoxious - those who yell constantly, bellow words at quiet moments. But applause? Hoots? I've let loose some of those during the quiet moment when Don holds out that note at Desperado... and he encourages it. Same for the relatively quiet Hotel California trumpet solo... again encouraged.

We all have different standards as to what is appropriate - and those standards are far from generational. One of the most obnoxious concert goers I have ever dealt with looked to be in her 40s. (She drunkenly used me to brace herself while climbing onto her seat, then steadied herself using my shoulder to keep from teetering. Luckily I was able to "talk her down." This was during Fleetwood Mac's slow and sweet Landslide.) I don't categorize that with applause and hoots, however. And while I agree that constant, loud off-key singing is distracting, isn't it cool when you hear everyone around you singing along with Take It to the Limit? With Desperado, in a moment of beautiful cross-generational unison, as people put their arms around their S.O. and sway with smiles on their faces, perhaps even tears in their eyes?

If David England wants to look for a selfish generation... well, there was a reason the "ME generation" was called that. Did he ever consider that his yelling at the people next to him was probably just as distracting, if not more so, than what he considers their poorly-placed applause?

I'm just glad he takes a couple of lines to praise the concert in the midst of his rant. Talk about selfishness... why did this "concert review" focus solely on the writer's displeasure at a fan sitting next to him??? Please! We want to hear about the Eagles, not how pissed off you are at some random fan. It's NOT ABOUT YOU, David England.

Looks like someone is still stuck in that "ME generation" after all.

tbs fanatic
10-09-2008, 10:49 AM
That poor guy. Sounds like he endured it. My hubby would of exploded all over the 'obnoxious one' - lol. I remember some concert (I don't remember who was playing) we went to that had a guy like that a couple of rows in front of us. Hubby finally gave him a good tongue lashing and everyone cheered - Ha! I just pretended I didn't know who hubby was.:blush:

DonFan
10-09-2008, 11:05 AM
Although I referred to him as a "reviewer" in my earlier post, I should have said "writer," as this was not actually a review--it was an essay.

I am sorry to disagree with you, soda, but I appreciate what he wrote. Don't get me wrong--I am all for reacting to the concert and I know the guys feed off our energy. However, I operate on limited funds and when I pay large amounts and travel long distances to see the Eagles, I don't want to be sitting next to an obnoxious fan such as the one he described who is ruining my experience.

I guess that is why I love this quote from Don so much, when he said to an overly talkative fan:

"Don't you hate it when you are having a conversation and a rock concert breaks out?"

sodascouts
10-09-2008, 11:08 AM
Who can blame you for thinking it was a review? Look how he titled it - "An Ode to the Finest Ever Band of Its Genre." There was a reason you put it in the "concert review" forum - he characterized it as one.

Ive always been a dreamer
10-09-2008, 11:41 AM
Well I definitely see both sides of this issue. When I go to a rock concert, I really don't want to sit in my seat like a bump on a log, and it annoys me to get one of those "looks" from one of the people who refuse to move. On the other hand, I can definitely do without a drunk using me as a leaning post or continuously screaming in my ears. As usual, I guess the right answer lies somewhere in the middle. As a very wise man once sang - "there's three sides to every story - there's yours, and there's mine, and the cold, hard truth".

Brooke
10-09-2008, 01:56 PM
Well, I can see both sides (or all three as that wise man once sang) to the story, too. I'm all for enjoying show and certainly did the last one I went to and joined right in with everyone around me standing, clapping, singing and dancing. And I have been to concerts where I wanted to do all that, but everyone else around me decided to sit and I was pretty bummed, but went along so as not to upset anyone.

Now that it's over, I find myself thinking about the show and trying to remember how this went or who did what on which song and I'm thinking that IF I get the chance to go to another, I'm going to try and really, really listen and take in as much as possible and NOT do much singing or dancing. Cause I really want to hear THEM, not everyone else. I may never get another chance.

Prettymaid
10-09-2008, 02:26 PM
While David England did not mention alcohol in his article, that does seem to be the common denominator in most of your stories here. Maybe they shouldn't sell alcohol at the venues.

sodascouts
10-09-2008, 03:01 PM
I agree, PM. I think I mentioned in my Wed. Chicago review how a middle-aged guy sloshed beer over everybody as he went up the aisle because he was already too drunk to walk straight. While it's true they can load up before, there's no reason to enable it during the concert... except, of course, the money the venue makes off its alcohol sales. In Chicago, they had vendors running up and down the aisles, cases of beer slung around their necks, yelling "ANYBODY WANT BEER?" just like it was a freaking baseball game!

Ive always been a dreamer
10-09-2008, 03:14 PM
I don't really agree that they should ban the sale of alcoholic beverages. I, for one, enjoy having a glass or two of wine or beer before/during the show. I think the majority of people know how to behave in public, and shouldn't be penalized for the actions of a few irresponsible jerks. Besides, the sale of alcoholic beverages provides a large source of revenue for the venue. However, I do think most states/venues have a law that prohibits the sale of alcohol to intoxicated individuals. There should be very strict enforcement of this rule. Instead, as Steph mentioned earlier, the security staff is too busy making sure someone doesn't snap a photograph.

MikeA
10-09-2008, 03:56 PM
I Instead, as Steph mentioned earlier, the security staff is too busy making sure someone doesn't snap a photograph.


Ahhh, for the good old days. I remember when Ma and Pa Kent came out of rock concerts freaked out about the smell! <LOL> And it WEREN'T alcohol!

Seriously, I would think that a discrete complaint to a Security Guard with time for him to observe to confirm and I should think such knee wobblin', snot slingin' comode huggin' drunks would be escorted to the Exit. No one could possibly enjoy a concert with someone completely out of control interfering.

I don't know how it would be possible to police an arena with maybe 10's of thousands of people to be sure that a few mixed in were not ruining the experience for all those around them. I wouldn't be opposed to a complete ban on booze during the concerts.

But even then, it wouldn't stop the problem being discussed here. There are always going to be those who just don't care that what they are doing is truly interfering with the experience others around them are having.

Freypower
10-09-2008, 05:10 PM
I tend to agree with Soda about the reviewer's own psyche taking over the review, just as in the Rolling Stone cover story Charles Young could not stop reminding us that he also wrote the 1979 story.

Regarding 'accessible versatility' and 'smouldering intensity', in my opinion Glenn can smoulder just as well as Don and can be just as intense. If he is more 'accessible' it is because he is the frontman.

My husband doesn't want to go to concerts any more because of the way people talk incessantly. He has very sharp hearing and it gets on his nerves. People are so selfish. My daughter was in a spelling bee recently, and the people behind me even talked through that!

But as for drinking alcohol during a show, for years down here you couldn't take anything inside. Now you can and for me at least it was a huge relief. When I saw the band in 2004 I was sipping champagne while staring at Glenn singing TITTL. It was wonderful. Despite the reputation Australians have, we tend to behave very well when we consume alcohol in these circumstances.

Prettymaid
10-09-2008, 07:39 PM
I agree, PM. I think I mentioned in my Wed. Chicago review how a middle-aged guy sloshed beer over everybody as he went up the aisle because he was already too drunk to walk straight. While it's true they can load up before, there's no reason to enable it during the concert... except, of course, the money the venue makes off its alcohol sales. In Chicago, they had vendors running up and down the aisles, cases of beer slung around their necks, yelling "ANYBODY WANT BEER?" just like it was a freaking baseball game!

:blush: I partook during intermission - very thirsty - best damn beer I ever had!

tbs fanatic
10-10-2008, 12:36 PM
I remember at the St. Louis concert there were a couple across the aisle from me. The guy was seriously drunk (staggering all over the place), his poor wife was mortified and spent most of the night just 'dealing with him'. I felt so sorry for her. You could tell she was walking a fine line between trying to keep him under control and not ticking him off. I'm sure she didn't enjoy the concert at all.

ticky
10-10-2008, 12:48 PM
Cliff took me to a Hank Jr concert when we were first dating. I wore my new coat. BIG mistake! EVERYONE (except us) was drunk. It was GA and two drunk girls spilled their beer on the coat, then two guys who were soo drunk (I think they were with the two girls) started to fight, but they were so plastered they ended up falling on top of each other instead of fighting. When Hank Jr. finally came out, HE was so drunk, he mumbled two or three songs and said goodnight and staggered off stage. It was an awful concert. Im NOT a Hank Jr. fan at all (which I suppose was a mark against it to begin with) but I can appreciate any type of music (with the possible exception of Ganstah Rap) but this wasnt any kind of music. The thing is, I think it got GOOD reviews!! (the reviewers must have been drunk too) Anyway, Im all for NO DRINKS during a concert. Before, sure, after, fine, During... no.

Maleah
10-12-2008, 04:21 PM
I TOTALLY agree about not serving beer during a concert! When we went to the American Idol concert it was HORRIBLE! Beer spilled on our seats multiple times, entire cups dumped down our backs, people falling and landing on us because they were so drunk. It was ridiculous

sodascouts
10-12-2008, 04:23 PM
My bag of souvenirs was literally DRENCHED in beer at the Lindsey Buckingham Milwaukee concert. I guess someone kicked their drink over accidentally. Luckily, the bag was plastic and the liquid didn't get inside of it, or my new shirt would have not smelled very good.

Freypower
10-12-2008, 06:59 PM
Well, I'm sorry so many people have had bad experiences with the serving of alcohol at concerts. I think it's weird that coming from a country with a huge drinking culture, I have not experienced it.

Brooke
10-12-2008, 08:40 PM
Wow, some of you have really had bad experiences with the alcohol. I'm happy to report that I really have not. So far!

sodascouts
10-13-2008, 01:55 AM
Another alcohol-enhanced moment:

At the Chicago House of Blues Lindsey Buckingham show about 30 minutes in, this drunk guy decided to come barreling through the crowd in order to get a "high five" from Lindsey. Since my friends and I were at the stage at Lindsey's feet, we were "obstacles." You know, I would've moved aside if he'd have asked, but he was pushing people right and left. He shoved my friend Tiffany aside and when I braced myself against the stage and refused to move out of his way, he just crushed me against the stage while he held out his hand and hollered "LINNZZZZZZY! GIMME FIVVVVVVE!" Now, this was a big, heavyset guy crushing up against me! I elbowed him in the chest and cried "DUDE GET OFF OF ME!" and he didn't move one centimeter, just pushed me up against the stage harder. JERK! When Lindsey gave him five, I wanted to shout "Don't reward his bad behavior!" But at least once the guy got his high-five he got off of me.

Oh well. Show was great otherwise, and it was the House of Blues - of course there's gonna be drinking. I just wish people would show some self-control.

MikeA
10-13-2008, 07:07 AM
When Lindsey gave him five, I wanted to shout "Don't reward his bad behavior!" But at least once the guy got his high-five he got off of me.

Perfect time for a taser or at least Pepper Spray! Taser preferably. Pepper Spray would have had the whole venue coughing! Buckingham SHOULD have called for security and bounced that idiot out the door and about 3 stories in the air! Could he not see what that guy was doing to you guys? That is asault by anyone's definition!

Prettymaid
10-13-2008, 09:24 AM
Perfect time for a taser or at least Pepper Spray! Taser preferably. !

Don't taze me bro! A sharp knee to the groin would have an equally positive effect!

MikeA
10-13-2008, 09:28 AM
Don't taze me bro! A sharp knee to the groin would have an equally positive effect!

I was struggling between the knee treatement and the tazer treatment. I thought the tazer was a less offensive action to describe here amongst all you ladies!

But it has long been known that males are the gentler species. <LOL>

ticky
10-13-2008, 10:53 AM
In my womens seldf defense class we were taught that an attacker or a drunk jerk is much less likely to notice a hand sneaking up to his groin area and grabbing and twisting then a knee AND a hand gives you a lot more control *G* If you're like me (no shame, not squeemish) I have no problem with this and it's very effective *G*

MikeA
10-13-2008, 11:00 AM
In my womens seldf defense class we were taught that an attacker or a drunk jerk is much less likely to notice a hand sneaking up to his groin area and grabbing and twisting then a knee AND a hand gives you a lot more control *G* If you're like me (no shame, not squeemish) I have no problem with this and it's very effective *G*


Yesh! Let's find something else to talk about! Hurts even THINKING about it!

And keep that Ticky person AWAY from ME!

LOL

Ive always been a dreamer
10-13-2008, 11:35 AM
Yesh! Let's find something else to talk about! Hurts even THINKING about it!

And keep that Ticky person AWAY from ME!

LOL

<he> <he> <he> Hey - I always say a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do! :nervous: :woah:

ticky
10-13-2008, 11:48 AM
EXCUSE me Mike *G* are you a sexual predator or a drunken sot invading my concert space? *G* If not, you're safe *G* for now anyway *G* heheehe and yes, a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do.

(my ex-brother in law would have said "they'd pay a lot for that in Europe") *G*

sodascouts
10-13-2008, 01:50 PM
Oh, Buckingham saw us all getting shoved around, that's for sure! We were in full view of him, the guy was making a spectacle of himself, and my yelling at him to get off of me was not quiet. I guess he figured that giving the guy what he wanted would be less disruptive to the show or something like that. Whatever. As the guy left, someone made a joke at his expense, and Lindsey kind of snickered, but that was it. Boo! :(

I don't think I'd have the nerve to grab the guy's privates, though. Makes me cringe just thinking about it!

MikeA
10-13-2008, 03:26 PM
I don't think I'd have the nerve to grab the guy's privates, though. Makes me cringe just thinking about it!

Thank you Soda....now I say again...KEEP THAT TICKY PERSON AWAY FROM ME!!!! She might mistake my intentions or something! She scares me!

ticky
10-13-2008, 07:02 PM
Ok, I think you're misunderstanding my idea here. theres a good joke that illustrates my point quite well.

What do you have when you have a Green Ball in each hand??

Kermit the frogs full and undivided attention!

In Soda's case, she could have reached down, gently grabbed a handful and said, "Excuse me sir, you seem to be SQUEEZING ME HARD against the stage. Should I return the favor?" I am betting he would have shaken his head. Then she could have let go and he would probably have put as much distance between her and himself as possible. IF he had gone to security and said ANYTHING, who are they going to believe??? even if they DID believe the drunken sot, they'd laugh their asses off.



Im not out to cause undue pain and suffering, I just want to be heard and understood :)

MikeA
10-13-2008, 07:05 PM
My wife is going to wonder what's happenin' tonight when I start screaming in my sleep!

ticky
10-13-2008, 07:07 PM
She's going to wonder why you're dreaming of ME, Mike!! LOL

Prettymaid
10-13-2008, 07:09 PM
That's okay Mike, we haven't even gotten into what we do to female concert ruiners!

DonFan
10-13-2008, 11:14 PM
Ok, I think you're misunderstanding my idea here. theres a good joke that illustrates my point quite well.

What do you have when you have a Green Ball in each hand??

Kermit the frog's full and undivided attention!
:)

Jeez, now we know why Kermit sang "It's not easy bein' green...":laugh:

MikeA
10-14-2008, 06:15 AM
Jeez, now we know why Kermit sang "It's not easy bein' green...":laugh:

Or "Take It Easy!":pimp: