Greatest Band Round #2 Top Twenty

[MikeA]

Here is our Top Forty. Pick the TWENTY from this list that you think have contributed the most to the Music Industry in innovative ways. Do your lobbying here for your choices.

The numbers to the right of each band's name indicate the number of votes that band got in the first elimination round.

BB King 11
Beach Boys 11
David Bowie 11
Elvis Presley 11
Eric Clapton 11

Bob Dylan 10
Bruce Springsteen 10
Chuck Berry 10
CSNY 10
Jimi Hendrix 10
Led Zeppelin 10
Rolling Stones 10

Aretha Franklin 9
Byrds 9
CCR 9
Doors 9
Michael Jackson 9

Bee Gees 8
Bob Marley 8
Elton John 8
Fleetwood Mac 8
Grateful Dead 8
Heart 8
Janis Joplin 8
Joni Mitchell 8
Pink Floyd 8
Supremes 8
WHO 8

Buddy Holly 7
Simon & Garfunkel 7
Stevie Wonder 7

Aerosmith 6
Alman Bros 6
Cream 6
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers 6
Little Richard 6
Madonna 6
Prince 6
Queen 6
Stevie Ray Vaughn 6

[Prettymaid]

When's cutoff Mike?

[cynd1231]

BB King
Bob Dylan
Chuck Berry
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Aretha Franklin
CCR
Doors
Bob Marley
Grateful Dead
Janis Joplin
Pink Floyd
WHO
Buddy Holly
Simon & Garfunkel
Aerosmith
Cream
Little Richard
Prince
Queen

[MikeA]

When's cutoff Mike?

It ain't no exact "science" Cathy. WE need plenty of time to do whatever research we want to get done. Probably the end of the week. Maybe Saturday Morning? I'm open to suggestion.

I just don't want to make any selections until after I hear from everyone who wishes to point out justifications for bands they know the background on.

[luvthelighthouse]

I think Sat is too long. I'm thinking 48 hours seems to be the normal time frame for games around here.

[MikeA]

I think Sat is too long. I'm thinking 48 hours seems to be the normal time frame for games around here.

I don't think I can be ready by Wednesday Morning. Let's shut the submissions down Thursday morning at 7am CDT (UT -5 I believe)

And I was very serious about reading comments made by everyone else about groups.

[EagleLady]

Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
Chuck Berry
CSNY
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones

Aretha Franklin
Byrds
CCR
Doors
Michael Jackson

Bee Gees
Bob Marley
Elton John
Fleetwood Mac
Grateful Dead
Heart
Janis Joplin
Joni Mitchell

[luvthelighthouse]

As documented, I'm still sour about the Ramones and Nirvana... so I have to ask, how can Heart make the first cut? I see they are now on EL's list, so maybe I'm missing something about them. Would anyone care to chime in on why Heart should stick around? Same with Cream. Would anyone care to lobby on their behalf?

I think the top 20 is going to be kinda predictable, but before I post my list out their, I'd like to hear what others have to say about some of these bands.

[EagleLady]

As documented, I'm still sour about the Ramones and Nirvana... so I have to ask, how can Heart make the first cut? I see they are now on EL's list, so maybe I'm missing something about them. Would anyone care to chime in on why Heart should stick around? Same with Cream. Would anyone care to lobby on their behalf?

I think the top 20 is going to be kinda predictable, but before I post my list out their, I'd like to hear what others have to say about some of these bands.


Are you kidding me? Heart, Basically the best Female rockers of all time. and Cream, Very influential! JMHO.

[Fan_For_Life]

Aerosmith
BB King
Beach Boys
Bob Marley
CCR
CSNY
Chuck Berry
Cream
David Bowie
Eric Clapton
Elvis
Fleetwood Mac
Heart
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zepplin
Madonna
Michael Jackson
Queen
The Rolling Stones
Who

[Fan_For_Life]

Personally, Heart are among the few female singers I consider listen worthy. I could play a song of theirs and actually enjoy the entirety of the song.

Musically, Magic Man and Baracuda are the more influential of songs from their catalog.

[luvthelighthouse]

Are you kidding me? Heart, Basically the best Female rockers of all time. and Cream, Very influential! JMHO.

But why? What makes Cream influential? As for Heart, I would put Joan Jett or the GoGo's before Heart, but that's just me.

[EagleLady]

But why? What makes Cream influential? As for Heart, I would put Joan Jett or the GoGo's before Heart, but that's just me.


You gotta be kidding me, Heart came way before GoGos or Joan Jett, I would say they were influenced by Heart. Cream had Eric Clapton, who is a very influential guitarist.

[Freypower]

Although my husband loves Heart, they are just a standard rock band who happen to have two female singers. I fail to see how they have been 'influential' in any way. Popular, yes.

Cream invented the power trio along with the Jimi Hendrix Experience and wrote some of the most memorable rock songs of the late 60s - Sunshine Of Your Love, Strange Brew, White Room, Badge and the blistering version of Crossroads.

I don't really want to lobby that much for the people I think should win but they should include Bob Dylan, the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin.

Dylan is the greatest songwriter ever apart from Lennon/McCartney. He drew on and added to so many genres from folk to blues to rock and even during his 'born again' phase. Every songwriter working today is in his debt. Before he came along songs were restricted pretty much to innocuous love songs.

The Rolling Stones are not known as 'the greatest rock band in the world' for nothing. Again, their appeal stretches across the many genres they have played. They have a wonderful songwriting team, a great singer/lyricist and a great guitarist. Just get some of those riffs in your head and see if you can get them out.

As for Led Zeppelin they are the 70s answer to the Rolling Stones with a gigantic, incredibly deep catalogue which includes everything from blues to cod-reggae. They invented heavy metal, but they were better than that.

OK. My top 20:

Beach Boys 11
David Bowie 11
Elvis Presley 11
Eric Clapton 11

Bob Dylan 10
Chuck Berry 10
Jimi Hendrix 10
Led Zeppelin 10
Rolling Stones 10

Aretha Franklin 9
Byrds 9
CCR 9

Bob Marley 8
Joni Mitchell 8
Pink Floyd 8
WHO 8

Buddy Holly 7
Simon & Garfunkel 7
Stevie Wonder 7

Cream 6

How it hurt me to eliminate Elton and the Bee Gees there. Oh well. Incidentally I think Nei Young as a solo artist was far more influential than CSNY, whose collective recorded output was very small.

[EagleLady]

Well, I think Heart was influential in that they may have been the first official Female Rock Group. JMHO, and paved the way for other Female Rock groups.

[Freypower]

And what about all those 'girl bands' of the Phil Spector era like the Ronettes, Martha & the Vandellas, etc? They may not have written their songs and they may not have played instruments but they were 'girl bands'.

[EagleLady]

I was referring to the female bands who actually play instruments.

[MikeA]

"Heart" was big. Great songwriters too. Pretty good instrumentalists. They were very heavily influenced by Led Zeppelin and sort of proved that a band focusing on female artists DID NOT have to win their popularity by playing on the fact that they were beautiful women! Their music stood on its own. But then, Janis Joplin had already done that 10 years earlier!

Ironic isn't it though that both the Wilsons and Hendrix were spawned out of Seattle. Must be something in the air up there!

One must weigh whether the groundbreaking they accomplished with their success for women in Rock outweighs the contributions of other artists. At that point, it gets Subjective and there is no way to avoid it.

I almost got to see them in KC at a casino a couple of years ago. They still kick a$$! I was a big fan in their heyday and still am for that matter. I don't know if I can justify their position on my own list of 20 from their careers, but I'm definitely going to deliberate that possibility. There are a LOT of others in that Top Forty that are carrying some heavy weight.

Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker were and still are great musicians. But other than the Power Trio thing and some great Rock Ballads, I'm not sure what the group Cream did for the industry. They could just barely stand to be around each other from the get-go and their concerts pretty much were all a battle between all three musicians to see who outdo the other two!

I think Clapton carried a lot more influence on the Industry, particularly other guitarists, that did Cream. I'm not sure if it was Clapton who popularized the guitar solo extending song length into the 10 or 15 minute range. Everyone was doing it there for a while....Hendrix, Grateful Dead, Clapton, James Gang...they were all recording long jam sessions. But I'll have to dig to see who initiated it.

There were a lot of guitarists who cranked up after listening to Clapton. One of Jimi Hendrix ambitions was to jam with Clapton. In fact that was a determining factor in his agent getting him over into the UK..."ONLY if he could sit in with Clapton!" But Clapton was nervous about Hendrix. I mean, Clapton had already been proclaimed "Clapton is GOD" by graffiti artists in London! I think I recall that Clapton had seen Hendrix before or at least heard about him before he had agreed to the jam session and wasn't very enthused about it at the time.

But then Hendrix was a phenomena and I have a lot more to say about him!

[luvthelighthouse]

Well, I think Heart was influential in that they may have been the first official Female Rock Group. JMHO, and paved the way for other Female Rock groups.

They weren't an girl group though. I said Joan Jett, but I should have said the Runaway's. Runaways were an all girl group. Joan Jett went on to start the JJ and Blackhearts. Micki Steel went on to be a Bangle. Lita Ford had a solo career. Runaways were truly a Female Rock Band. Yes, Go-Go's came much later, but again, all girls. However, I would strike them from my first comment, as they were much later. Heart and the Runaways were both early-mid 70's.

Hmmm... just writing this up makes me feel like I should pick up some Runaways music. Good job Mike, I think that is what you intended! Get us stepping out of our box to explore or rediscover other avenues.

[luvthelighthouse]

As far as lobbying for who should stay... well, there are few, even if I wasn't a fan... but the Greatful Dead influenced a whole culture. Heck, even Henley sang a nod to them. Dylan was a poet and deserves his acclaim. Madonna, reinvented herself, music and stage presence for the past 20 years and is still going strong.

Led Zeppelin. Hmmm... In jr high, I recall having several of their albums (cassettes if you will). I listend to them because they were "cool"... or so I was told. However, aside from my favorites, I'm not sure I really dug all their music. I think I was 50/50. I may have to revisit them too. I mean, yes, the highly coveted Zepplin IV, with Black Dog and Stairway was a part of a generation. However, my favorites are Kashmir and All My Love. I do believe they should surely be in the top 10.

[sodascouts]

BB King
Beach Boys
Elvis Presley
Bob Dylan
CSNY
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones
Aretha Franklin
Doors
Michael Jackson
Bee Gees
Fleetwood Mac
Janis Joplin
Joni Mitchell
Buddy Holly
Stevie Wonder
Cream
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers
Stevie Ray Vaughn

[Prettymaid]

I think Clapton carried a lot more influence on the Industry, particularly other guitarists, that did Cream. I'm not sure if it was Clapton who popularized the guitar solo extending song length into the 10 or 15 minute range. Everyone was doing it there for a while....Hendrix, Grateful Dead, Clapton, James Gang...they were all recording long jam sessions. But I'll have to dig to see who initiated it.


Probably the first time I realized who Eric Clapton was, was when The Beatles' While My Guitar Gently Weeps came out. Even then it took years for me to fully appreciate the guitar work. Now I get it!

[TimothyBFan]

I have kinda worked on this list but plan to concentrate hard on it today and get it posted. As far as lobbying---I don't need to do to much of that thanks to FP and Mike who have pretty much said exactly what I would have.

Sorry but don't think Joan Jett/Runaways and definitely not the Go Gos are anywhere close to the same league as Heart! But I also agree that tho Heart is fabulous and very rocking and bluesy, there were others ahead of them (even tho they never played instruments perhaps) that might have paved the way a bit for them. Can we all say ARETHA!!! This is music in general, not by genre, but who can forgot all the great women coming from the Motown sound in the 60s and 70s?

As far as Cream, have to agree with what someone said where they really didn't do much for the industry. Don't get me wrong LOVE them~~~ but they were just another group of exceptional artists. I rank them like I would groups like Faces, Traffic, Yardbirds or Blind Faith. Great groups that have spawned many many many solo careers. Again, JMHO.

I've made it pretty obvious who I feel should get top billing when all is said and done. But no disputing those that have paved the way, such as the Dead, Stones, Hendrix, Bowie, Dylan, Aretha, Bluesbreakers, etc...Even those that claim they really don't know much about some of the artists who's names are being tossed around, have to have heard of the true legends and know what they have done.

[MikeA]

It has been said of Clapton, that he "does everything" in the minor pentatonic scales. But he knows them as well as he knows his own face. And, he plays them FAST.

The remark, by a self proclaimed music critic was meant disparagingly but he is right. However, that does NOT take anything away from his talent and imagination. And, it is not surprising that he knows the Minor Pentatonic better than any of the other scales. That's what most Blues is built on!

From the Yardbirds, to the Bluesbreakers, to Cream, to Blind Faith, to Derik and the Dominos to voluminous walls full of Gold and Platinium Records; Yeah, Clapton had a lot of influence on the industry. Yet, I think that Eric was more about sticking around within the boundaries of what he loved (the Blues) rather than breaking new ground or changing the "formula of the day" for for success. Eric along with BB King should go down in history for "Perpetuating the Blues Genre". Both, Eric especially, has remained loyal to the old "original" Bluesmen...helping them financially to reap some of the rewards that the Record Labels robbed them of. So many of the really Great Bluesmen, the ones like Muddy Waters, Lightning Hopkins, Little Walter, and even BB King, were screwed out of most of the money they generated in record sales and went to their graves poor as dirt! Eric at least paid homage to these guys and toured with them.

You can see currently the dedication to "making things right" that Clapton is responsible for with the Crossroads Festivals he organizes to raise money to fund the Antigua Drug Rehabilitation Center that he poured his fortune into. Just look at the masses of musicians who give of their time for that event every couple of years.

It took Eric Clapton a LONG TIME to grow up. He had a LOT of baggage to get rid of including NOT knowing that the girl he called "Sister" was really his "Mother". He didn't discover this until he was Nine Years Old! It pretty much warped his personality.

[Prettymaid]

But no disputing those that have paved the way, such as the Dead, Stones, Hendrix, Bowie, Dylan, Aretha, Bluesbreakers, etc...Even those that claim they really don't know much about some of the artists who's names are being tossed around, have to have heard of the true legends and know what they have done.

I know it's hard to believe, but I have never owned any music by the above-mentioned artists - even the Stones! (Sorry, never liked them!) All I know of these artists is what I've heard on the radio.

You have to understand, while some of you were listening to some of these artists I was listening to John Denver, Jim Croce and Cat Stevens. Eventually that developed into Heart, Queen, Firefall, Styx, Boston, Kansas, REO, and Chicago, to name a few.

So yes, I heard the legends, but I don't really know what they did, except from the radio. If I liked what I heard on the radio, I went and bought the record! It's just that it wasn't any of these artists.

[MikeA]

Someone mention or suggested that Cream initiated the Power Trio. It was a format for a band that encouraged long demonstrations of talent by all three members of the group since in most cases, vocals were not the emphasis.

Buddy Holly and the Crickets may be able to claim the honors of promoting the Power Trio format though their formula was a little different than that we call the Power Trio. The Crickets were more about rhythm so that Buddy could get out there and wail his voice as well as play his guitar.

It might be attributed to Muddy Waters and his trio.

But the origins of what we call Power Trio has to be given to Jimi Hendrix AND Cream. They defined the format with their configurations and it wasn't possible until the amplifiers became strong enough to allow all three sections of the trio to come through in BLISTERINGLY LOUD form! While Hendrix and Clapton were doing their thing, the "look back" moment usually signified as the beginning of the Power Trio is the '67 Monterey POP Festival when Hendrix blew everyone away in the USA!

There were certainly a LOT of successful bands following the lead of Hendrix and Cream. Heck, even Led Zep is a derivation of the power trio....three instruments plus Robert Plant as frontman or vocalist.

[Prettymaid]

I'm not sure if the arguments are infuencing anyone, but let me say a few words on behalf of Queen.

Queen is known for their diversity. From the beginning with Killer Queen, which is sort of camp and vaudeville-like, to the gospel-sounding Somebody to Love, to the Elvis-inspired Crazy Little Thing Called Love. And who can forget Queen when they go to a sporting event and hear We Will Rock You and We Are The Champions?

And then, of course, there is Bohemian Rhapsody, thought by some to be the greatest rock song of all time. It is in a category by itself. While studying up on Queen, I learned that the video they made for BR is perhaps the first video ever, not counting The Beatles'.

So, I'm going to include Queen and I hope you do too.

[MikeA]

Queen was another of the Power Trio +1 groups....Mercury was usually considered a vocalist leaving the others to the instrumental parts though Mercury played on a lot of their recordings as well.

[eaglesvet]

Although I don't have time to post my list right now, I am going to take the time to lobby for my fave...surprise...Bruce Springsteen! :)

He has had an extremely successful career from the mid-70's through today, which is not true of many on the original list. Back in May '74, then music critic Jon Landau made the famous comment, upon seeing Bruce play in Boston, "I have seen rock and roll future, and its name is Bruce Springsteen..." Not long afterward, Bruce appeared on the covers of Time and Newsweek in the same week of Oct. '75, and the rest, as they say, is history. To quote Wikipedia, he is known for his brand of "Heartland rock" full of pop hooks, poetic lyrics, and Americana sentiments...and from personal experience, he's certainly the forerunner of the "Jersey shore sound" (read: lots of big horns, accordians, and keyboards.) His marathon concerts full of emotional personal stories and changing setlists (currently decided by fan signs) are legendary, and would send many a younger artist back to the gym! Not only are two of his albums, Born to Run and Born in the USA among the top-selling albums of all time; he has served as a successful songwriter for other artists such as the Pointer Sisters, Donna Summer, Manfred Mann's Earth Band, and Patti Smith. He has recently been voted to Rolling Stones 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, as well as to Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People of the Year (in 2008. )

VOTE FOR THE BOSS!!

[MikeA]

Okay Eva, Springsteen. So Noted. But exactly what did he bring to the table? How did he revolutionize "life as we know it?" <LOL> Remember, we're stacking up these artist against those who "formed" the music with role models to contend with such as Hendrix, Clapton, BB KING and the other 36 contenders. Something has to stand out, so tell us as though we'd never heard of "The Boss".

[MikeA]

I'll put in a plug for "Allman Brothers"...or at least Dwayne Allman. Virtually no guitar player of modern times fails to credit Dwayne Allman for giving them the slide guitar technique on electric 6-stringed instruments.

With alternate tunings and that slide...think about all who followed by using that technique. So much so that the slide enters the equation on so much music today that it has to be classed as a "staple". Clapton learned it from Dwayne as did Joe Walsh. Look at what Keith Richards has done with open tunings both with and without a slide. Nearly all of that is attributed to Dwayne Allman!

Something to think about!

As for the group, they are generally associated with the beginnings of Southern Rock as a genre. They didn't originate it necessarily, but they really gave it mass appeal.

[MikeA]

Bruce Springsteen

When I think of "The Boss" (or the Doctor), I think immediately of lyrics that portray life in America or protest songs reminiscent of CSNY or Woody and Arlo Guthery and maybe Peter Paul and Mary. Most of Springsteen's songs (and he is a very prolific songwriter!) are "significant" and not just "fun" songs though he wrote a lot of those too.

I guess I would have to say that in addition to being an American Icon, Springsteen would have to be synonymous with the thought of bringing musical lyrics back to the issues being dealt with by those in the country he is obviously so dedicated to. He, more than most artists of the times, wrote and performed about really difficult and sometimes unpopular issues...Nuclear Power, treatment (or mis-treatment) of Viet Nam soldiers.

That rejection of those who served in the military during an unpopular "Police Action" (don't get me on a soapbox!) is very puzzling to me. Those guys for the most part were conscripted (i.e. DRAFTED) and were given no choice in what they were doing in Nam. Yet when they returned, they were physically attacked in the worst scenarios and ridiculed by the ones who dodged the draft.

Okay, I got one foot on the soapbox after all. I didn't mean to.

Springsteen is one who HAS to be considered because of his influence on Society. He brought hard issues to the attention of the public and became incredibly popular as a result...or maybe IN SPITE of the controversial issues he wrote and sang about.

He didn't fit into a specific "genre" of music. He pretty much either made up his own feel for the music or chose whichever genre best conveyed the sound bouncing around in his head while composing the songs. A very unique individual whom I have a difficult time evaluating in terms of the perspectives I'm trying to use to pick the most "influential" in the industry.

[luvthelighthouse]

Looking at this list, wow, it's amazing how many of these artists spawned out of the late 60's early 70's. What would music be like if 65-75 hadn't had all these amazing people? What would our music today sound like. Wait, I know what some of today's music sounds like and it's not good! I think there is a reason I'm drawn to this era of music, it was great!

Boy, there are a lot of guitarist on this list!

[MikeA]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Boy, there are a lot of guitarist on this list!

I don't think that is cooincidental LTLH. It was pretty much the development of the electronics that eliminated all the feedback and interference that mic'd guitars produced and the huge advances in amplification that made it possible for groups to center on the guitar instead of keyboards as the "lead or melodic instrument". There are exceptions like "Yes" and a few others that stuck with synthesizers and the rock solid Hammond Organ for lead, but for the most part, it was the introduction of a practical guitar and the pioneers who took that instrument and wrung it dry to define the sound of "modern music".

From that standpoint, Les Paul and Leo Fender maybe should have been included on the list of most influential people in Music! Without these two inventors of the solid body guitar and electronics that DID NOT produce unwanted noise, we wouldn't have the "sound" we have come to rely upon!

Les Paul however didn't stop with developing pickups that gave clean sound and a solid body guitar which introduced Sustain unheard earlier, but he also developed revolutionary 8 track recording!

I'm attaching a pic of the original Rock Instrument, "The Log". It looks like what we think of as a guitar, but the "wings" were added ONLY for cosmetic appearance. Basically it was a 4x4 block of wood with a guitar neck!

Fender beat Les Paul into production because Gibson didn't think it was practical! They claimed that since it was solid, artists would have to lug both the LOG and an acoustic to performances.

I'm also sticking in a picture of the Fender Broadcaster...the first solid body guitar ever to be mass produced. Sure looks like a Telecaster doesn't it! No surprise, Gretch pointed out that "Broadcaster" was a model name they used on a set of drums at some point in time. Fender removed the "broad" from the name and those sold after the claims by Gretch were called "No-Casters". Later, one of the marketing people at Fender renamed it the "Telecaster".

I've attached a pic of the Fender here as well.

[MikeA]

I'm REALLY having trouble cutting that list of 40 down to 20!

[luvthelighthouse]

I'm REALLY having trouble cutting that list of 40 down to 20!

Me too! I thought it would easier than it is! I think some subjectivity is creeping in... although, there are some that must remain on the list for now. Next round is going to be super hard!

[TimothyBFan]

Not quite ready yet, but getting there. But I wanted to share something with all of you. I've got my list narrowed to about 25 or so and wanted to check a couple of things & know how I was stacking up to maybe some "official" list I could find on the internet. In doing my research (yes Mike, I'm doing my homework!!), I found this article that was published in 2004 by Rolling Stone Magazine. I'm doing pretty darn good as are most of us from the looks of it! I won't actually post the list but the link to the article (since it's out there for anyone who is willing to look for it anyways). This is not to persuade anyone! (Mike -if you think I shouldn't have posted this because it might wreck havoc with our official Border results---please don't hesitate to tell me to delete it!).

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5939214/the_immortals_the_first_fifty

[MikeA]

By all means...any resources such as you found Willie are very helpful. Certainly, whatever Rolling Stone published, while not "official" is certainly thought highly of by most people.

It is a bit gratifying that our list corresponds so closely to theirs. It did point out some that never showed up on our list and that is a bit embarrassing to me. I should have thought of Ray Charles! And, The Band. And I think I've already expressed regret of not remembering Bo Diddley!

[TimothyBFan]

I am extremely stressed out (and embarrassed) that we left off the original list such artist as Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, The Band and Muddy Watters to name a few. :-( But I also need to say that Rolling Stone Mag. placed the Eagles at #75--So what do they know anyways! :hilarious:

[TimothyBFan]

My top 20:

BB King
Bob Dylan
Led Zeppelin
Aretha Franklin
Doors
Michael Jackson
Beach Boys
Pink Floyd
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers
Prince
Supremes
Who
Rolling Stones
Eric Clapton
Jim Hendrix
Elton John
Janis Joplin
Buddy Holly
Chuck Berry
Elvis Presley

[luvthelighthouse]

Hey, missing from that list is our very own Eagles!!! :sad: However, they are listed as #75. :thumbsup: (at least they made the top 100)

I don't know why, but oddly I feel vindicated that The Ramones are #26 and Nirvana #27.:hilarious:

I also have approx 25 on my list... and Rolling Stone's list is similiar to mine and therefor confusing me more. Who knew this would be so hard?

Edited: Willie, you were posting while I was typing... but we noticed our boys were missing! :)

[luvthelighthouse]

Ok, I can't look at this anymore! Here are my picks - so not easy:

BB King
David Bowie
Elvis Presley
Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
Chuck Berry
CSNY
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones
Byrds
Michael Jackson
Grateful Dead
Janis Joplin
Joni Mitchell
Pink Floyd
WHO
Allman Bros
Buddy Holly
Madonna

[Brooke]

Thanks for that, Willie. When I saw Ray Charles name I shook my head! I made my list and then compared it to theirs. I only have 6 of theirs in my top 20, but I'm sticking with my list. :brickwall:

This is really hard, but I'm going with my heart.

Brooke's Top 20

Aerosmith
Allman Bros
BB King
Beach Boys
Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
Byrds
Chuck Berry
Creedence Clearwater Revival (maybe this should read John Fogerty-he made them)
CSNY (the harmonies of all four are too wonderful)
Elvis Presley
Eric Clapton
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Lynyrd Skynyrd (cannot leave them out-southern rock kings)
Michael Jackson
Pink Floyd
Queen
Rolling Stones
Who

Now, let me make my case for the Rolling Stones. From Wikipedia:

24 studio albums
9 concert albums
Sold 200 million albums worldwide

The songwriting team of Jagger/Richards.

Sticky Fingers (1971) began the list of 8 consecutive #1 albums.

The album Aftermath, released in 1966 contained the almost 12 minute long Going Home, the 1st extended jam on a top selling rock & roll album. Later, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, and other 60's and 70's bands would release long jams routinely.

They made one of the 1st 'purpose-made' promotional film clips (music video) with the 1966 single, Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing In The Shadow?

There's lots more technical stuff, but the above made the most sense to me.

Ground breaking? Innovative? I think so. :nod:

[MikeA]

I'm really struggling here. I'm having to rethink NOT what my opinion of John Mayall is, but rather of the impact he had in comparison to the others on the list. Nothing I brought forward about his influence was wrong, but one has to wonder if people like Clapton, Green, McVie and Fleetwood and Taylor and Taylor joined The Bluesbreakers BECAUSE of their already influenced Blues tendencies or if they got all of that influence from John Mayall. I know in the case of Clapton that he was already entrenched in the Blues from the US bluesmen and I think he saw the Bluesbreakers as a "safe" outlet where he wouldn't have to battle the other members in the band to stick to a bluesy foundation rather than cutting corners for mass appeal.

I then have to look at what Mayall actually brought to the table and it was mostly covers of his Bluesmen Hero's work. I almost feel disloyal in making that statement, but it's getting to "crunch time" and I fear that Mayall may be the most vulnerable in my list.

I'm looking at the Grateful Dead. Most people listen to their recordings and their response is "So What!" I tend to agree. They were NOT a studio band. They were a LIVE BAND. Each performance was almost completely unique and that wasn't either by design or not by design....they were a train ready to wreck! And the only reason it didn't wreck is that Jerry Garcia didn't let it wreck! He really was a master musician and doesn't get the credit he deserves. He was a little bit "everything" and knew more about music theory and music history than virtually anybody. The way he could weave that band together on stage and magnetically DRAW the audience into the scene (whether it be Folk, Psychedelic, Bluegrass, Country...WHATEVER) is just amazing.

I read in Wikipedia where Bill Graham (their promoter) stated, "The Grateful Dead are not the "best" at what they do. They are the ONLY ones who do what they do!"

That pretty well sums up what I know about them. You could NOT categorize them. You couldn't go to a concert and predict what they were going to play and even when they did play some of the same songs, they never sounded the same because of the extended improvisational interludes that could run 15 or 20 minutes!

They were one of the first "Improv Bands" and by that I mean, they would launch into a stint in the middle of a song and just let them take them wherever it wanted to take them. Usually it was a very good place too. But that Improv didn't lend itself well to the Recording Industry. Everything they did, from designing speaker systems for stage use that were WAY ahead of the technology available to virtually anyone else, to the way they selected their songs....it lent itself to a cult following that may never be equaled. They made their success with the loyalty of an ever growing fan base who saved their money to travel to concerts rather than buy records.

"The Dead" is an enigma. Man, I don't know how much they contributed to "the industry" (hell, they were as anti establishment as anyone could be! They just didn't care!) But their influence on Society was tremendous. The Psychedelic Era certainly wouldn't have been what it was had it NOT been for the Grateful Dead. But because of the very nature of that era, much was "underground". Good grief...when you have Oswley Stanley camped out in the attic of your Haight-Ashbury house mass producing LSD (ever heard of "Purple Oswley"?) you don't actually advertise your business! And you cannot separate the Dead from the early years when they were the House Band for the fabled "Acid Tests". Those "tests" were NOT just a place for Stanley to try out his newest batch of LSD, but were also the venue in which what became the Light Shows that accompany Rock Shows of today! This was also where improved Speaker Systems and audio/visual displays were evolved.

quote from Wikipedia:

The Wall of Sound was an enormous sound system designed specifically for the Grateful Dead.[43][44] The band was never satisfied with the house system anywhere they played, so in their early days, soundman Owsley "Bear" Stanley designed a public address (PA) and monitor system for them.

All of these things...yes, including the drug abuse...came from those early years (circa 1965 in San Francisco!) At the time, LSD wasn't even illegal! But "the Man" won in the end and Stanley was imprisoned in 1970 for selling LSD.

I just can't bring myself NOT to include the Dead in my top Twenty influences.

[luvthelighthouse]

Hey, you sold me on John Mayall... but if you are going to take it back, I'm gonna edit my list! :hand:

Since you aren't closing this until Thurs morning, I may edit. Now I'm all confused again! :headscratch:

Of course the Dead belong in the top 20! OMG, they influenced a culture! They didn't have groupies, they have Deadheads! (pretty much a cult following) The only true way to expierence them was to see them live. Their concerts were pretty much jam sessions that lasted for hours on end. They lived in the moment, for the moment and producing studio albums was on the back burner. To have that huge of a following, certainly dictates that they had a profound effect on music... be it live music!

[Prettymaid]

Beach Boys
Elvis Presley
Eric Clapton
Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
CSNY
Jimi Hendrix
Rolling Stones
Aretha Franklin
Byrds
Doors
Michael Jackson
Bee Gees
Fleetwood Mac
Heart
Supremes
Simon & Garfunkel
Alman Bros
Queen
Stevie Ray Vaughn

[eaglesvet]

Okay Eva, Springsteen. So Noted. But exactly what did he bring to the table? How did he revolutionize "life as we know it?" <LOL> Remember, we're stacking up these artist against those who "formed" the music with role models to contend with such as Hendrix, Clapton, BB KING and the other 36 contenders. Something has to stand out, so tell us as though we'd never heard of "The Boss".
I thought I just did that...:hand: :headbang:

[eaglesvet]

It was interesting to read the Rolling Stones' List, especially with regards to which artist was reviewing the honored artist. Great pairings! Anyway, here's my list:

BB King
Beach Boys
Elton John
Elvis Presley
Eric Clapton
Bob Dylan
Bruce Springsteen
CSNY
Chuck Berry
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones
Aretha Franklin
Michael Jackson
Grateful Dead
Supremes
Who
Buddy Holly
Simon and Garfunkel
Stevie Wonder
Madonna

[Prettymaid]

As you all know, I've been struggling with this game since the beginning. Most of the artists on the list are not my choice of "listening music". I keep thinking about Mike's challenge to vote for "who brought the most to the table". This morning as I was waking up a thought came to me, and I'm paraphrasing:"If a tree falls in the woods and I'm not there to hear it, does it make a sound?" I understand the rules, but I'm probably going to vote for who had the most effect on me.

[MikeA]

Eva...Sorry...I went back and looked and didn't see anything. But I'm using "One Of These Nights" skin for the Forum here and your text was black against a black background. I couldn't see it until I Highlighted it.

There have been a few other posts with lists casting votes but I think I caught all of them. I don't know why your posts tend to have a font color that blends so well with the background.

[TimothyBFan]

I'm starting to feel a wee bit guilty that I didn't include the Dead this round. I just have never gotten it!! I admit, I've never see them live, tho I've had several chances that I didn't take, and have been told that's when you understand. I actually had them in the top 25 but eliminated them in the end.
Side note: We have a friend that is a HUGE Deadhead and some how over the years has gotten his hands on almost 100 bootlegs that date back as far as the 60's, all on cassette. One day a couple years ago, he showed up at our house and gave them to our son (who loves GD). He has 3 boys of his own but they hate rock music and he said he knew Dillon appreciated music, liked the Dead and he wanted someone to have them that would keep them and appreciate them. I don't believe Dillon has ever played them because he's afraid to. His goal is to get them transferred to cd and put the originals away for safe keeping.

BTW---You all should vote for
LED ZEPPELIN

[MikeA]

I'm not particularly proud of this selection. Each elimination hurts.

Alman Bros
Aretha Franklin
BB King
Beach Boys
Bob Dylan
Bob Marley
Bruce Springsteen
Buddy Holly
Chuck Berry
Elton John
Elvis Presley
Eric Clapton
Grateful Dead
Janis Joplin
Jimi Hendrix
Joni Mitchell
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones
Stevie Ray Vaughn
WHO

[MikeA]

The front runners are not surprising. About what I expected and no real disappointments. We have 11 participants voting I think and all 11 are in. I'll still wait until tomorrow morning bright and early to announce the finalists.



Hendrix,
Stones,
Dylan,
Led Zep

Following closely is

Chuck Berry,
Elvis,

And then

WHO
Michael Jackson
Beach Boys
BB King
Aretha Franklin

[luvthelighthouse]

Mike-

I've made ONE change to my list. Heck, you sold me on John Mayall, but if even he doesn't make your cut, I'm taking him off of mine! I am taking out Mayall and adding Buddy Holly. I changed it on my list, but wanted to call it to your attention.

Mike, you and I have 75% of the same bands! I haven't compared my list to others, but yours looked so familiar... now I know why!

[MikeA]

Mike-

I've made ONE change to my list. Heck, you sold me on John Mayall, but if even he doesn't make your cut, I'm taking him off of mine! I am taking out Mayall and adding Buddy Holly. I changed it on my list, but wanted to call it to your attention.

Mike, you and I have 75% of the same bands! I haven't compared my list to others, but yours looked so familiar... now I know why!

Okay LTLH.....I've updated my master list that I've been updating for our Top Twenty.

I don't apologize much for lobbying for Mayall. I mean, his contribution was significant. Very significant. But it was not all that "original" after I started thinking about it and he did not have the popularity to include him based strictly on that. And when compared to the others, he just didn't measure up in my humble opinion.

I haven't said anything about Elvis. I didn't particularly like him myself. I preferred the music of Ricky Nelson who I always thought of as "the Other" major player of the 50's and early 60's. But that is all beside the point.

Elvis made a contribution to MUSIC that has to be as significant as that made by the Beatles. He rose to FAME during a very ugly time in American History. There was a huge racial rift and riots were commonplace where I grew up in Arkansas. It was a time of people trying to break seemingly unbreakable barriers and Civil Rights leaders were beginning to really force a huge social change.

Elvis Presley contributed as much to the eventual success of that movement as did any of the Proponents of the cause and absolutely more than resulted from the riots.

Elvis erased the barriers by combining virtually all genres of music into his style....Gospel, Country, the fledgling Rock and Roll, and Blues. And he did it so that White folks really listened to his music almost religiously. This I think did more to make possible the Integration of the American Population as did anything.

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether I "liked" Elvis or not, his impact on music was revolutionary both socially and in the influence on the growing movement toward what would become Rock & Roll. He just blurred the lines defining all genres and just as importantly, on all RACES!

He is a Hero in more ways than one.

[MikeA]

The way is stands right now, and all previous voters have submitted their picks already, the following will have made the cut. Note that we have 24 in our Top Twenty since there was a 6-way tie for last position.

I emphasize that this might change slightly but I do not expect it to change. I'll still post the official top-twenty in the morning.

Bob Dylan
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones
Chuck Berry
Elvis Presley
Aretha Franklin
BB King
Beach Boys
Michael Jackson
WHO
Buddy Holly
Eric Clapton
CSNY
Janis Joplin
Bruce Springsteen
Doors
Pink Floyd
Bob Marley
Byrds
CCR
Elton John
Grateful Dead
Joni Mitchell

Those NOT making the cut are below. Note that those with the "*" are only one vote off from being in that tie for last position.

* Allman Bros
* Cream
* Fleetwood Mac
* Queen
* Simon & Garfunkel
* Supremes
Aerosmith
Bee Gees
David Bowie
Heart
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers*
Madonna
Prince
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Stevie Wonder
Little Richard
Lynyrd Skynyrd

[luvthelighthouse]

It's not something I publicly admit to, but I'm not a big Elvis or Stones fan.

Just not "my" taste in music.

I wish others would jump in and cast votes too. Perhaps the first list was too overwhelming, but now that it's halved, I would nice if others cast votes too!

[MikeA]

I agree. It was an ambitious undertaking and I applaud everyone who has participated for the thought and research obviously performed!

And I would like to see more Borderers jump in and help narrow it down. I can't even imagine how we are going to get past the top-ten. In the end, I suspect that we are going to have a tie for top honors.

[TimothyBFan]

Well I for one will not apologize for voting for The Bluesbreakers! There's hardly a Saturday night vinyl get together where someone doesn't pull out the Bluesbreaker album and put it on. It usually sparks some conversation and many a time someone has had to go get the cover so that we can read who's on which song etc...

As far as Elvis, he's on my list but not because I ever was a fan! No one can dispute the legend he was and what he contributed, but I willingly admit, I've never been a fan.

Another one that looks like they won't make the cut this time that surprises me is Prince. I really thought he might do better. I was a HUGE fans of his in the 80's and still like him. He pretty much has written all his own material and the man plays something like 21 instruments, most of which were self taught. That's truly amazing!

[eaglesvet]

Eva...Sorry...I went back and looked and didn't see anything. But I'm using "One Of These Nights" skin for the Forum here and your text was black against a black background. I couldn't see it until I Highlighted it.


There have been a few other posts with lists casting votes but I think I caught all of them. I don't know why your posts tend to have a font color that blends so well with the background.
Whew...that explains it! I thought you were being aw-fully picky after what I thought was a reasonable argument, given the limited time I have available in my life at the moment!

[eaglesvet]

I agree, it would be nice to get some more opinions. I just PM'd
Stars, now that she's back from Scotland. Maybe she'll chime in tonight. Anyone else we can bug to join us?

[MikeA]

I don't even know where to start in talking about Jimi Hendrix.

He completely "rediscovered" the guitar. Before him, the guitar was like a human utilizing only 1% of their brain! Instead of fighting unwanted feedback between the guitar and amplifier, Jimi incorporated it into his music. In fact, there wasn't a square inch of the guitar that Jimi didn't incorporate. He plucked the strings between the nut and the tuning posts...and the strings behind the bridge! He even took the cover off the back the guitar that hid the tremlo tension springs and struck them for specific audio effects he wanted.

As for the guitar...his weapon of choice was a Fender Strat. Jimi was left handed and played left handed, but used right handed guitars because left handed ones were so rarely made by Fender at the time. That contributed to the tone of Hendrix. By flipping the right handed git over and stringing it backwards, a couple of things happened that affected the sound. First, the nut had to be removed and turned around to accommodate the large "E" string in the position that the small "e" string normally nestled. Repositioning also caused too much of a bend in the bass string between the nut and the tuning post and it would pop out of the nut. Jimi solved that by winding the string backwards on the tunning post which moved it's point of origin more toward the "bottom" of the guitar.

Backwards stringing also caused a different angle between the bass strings and the pickups producing a more treble sound than a Strat strung correctly. Jimi incorporated this into his "sound" to advantage.

By flipping the right handed guitar, it put the tuning knobs on then high side of the guitar as he was playing it making them more accessible for him to adjust during a song. It also caused the whammy bar to be on the high side of the bridge instead of down below the strings. Many think this a much more logical arrangement and some tremlos were even redesigned to offer the top side as an option!

And, flipping the guitar over restricted access to the upper frets with his right hand (his fretting hand). But this didn't impact Jimi at all. If he needed to fret the upper frets beyond where the horn restricted access, he would come in from the other side with his fingers, or fret with his thumb, or hell even flip it over and play behind his back or head which in some cases gave him a different angle to reach those strings and frets!

Jimi was one of the first if not THE FIRST to incorporate a Wah-Wah pedal into his stage gear.

To Hendrix, more so than any other guitarist, his guitar literally was an extension of his own self....the inner part of him...the creative part! He wasn't bound by scales and accepted chord progressions. Nor was he bound by any genre of music. His roots were Blues and he could turn them into his own and his own was totally and unmistakably Jimi Hendrix. He went "somewhere else" during performances and didn't fight the tug of established sequence but rather, improvised whenever the urge struck him.

I think that most of the guitarists of the late Sixties and the first couple of years before his death in '72, were intimidated by what Jimi had become. John Mayer may had said it best when (and I quote from memory) "Every guitar player can Identify themselves by where they STOPPED in their quest to master the guitar like Jimi." Personally, I agree. There never has been ANYONE able to take the guitar to the heights Jimi achieved. I don't think anyone ever will. Certainly not with just the technology Jimi had to work with!

Stevie Ray Vaughan said that he thought there was a spirit of Jimi Hendrix incarnated within him. He made no bones about getting most if not all of his inspiration from the Electric Gypsy.

Vocally, Jimi wasn't the greatest. He didn't even want to take the microphone during performances but his record producers KNEW that he was something special and didn't want to chance any frontman taking credit away from Jimi.

Jimi's art didn't end on-stage though. He would spend hours and hours producing his own works, never satisfied with either the studios or the results on the master tapes. He was one of the innovators of multi track recording and stereo recording. Eventually, he constructed his own recording studio and then began exploring avenues other than rock. There was just so much inside him and it was like he knew that he didn't have long to get it all out.

If ever you want to read the story of a Genius, read the encyclopedic documentary "Electric Gypsy" by Harry Shapiro and Caesar Glebbeek. It is almost 800 pages of small print documenting his life, his career and some of his philosophies. It is an amazing read.

I never did care a lot for the tonal quality of Jimi's voice, but ignoring that, the lyrics and the way he presented them, you could tell was straight from somewhere deep inside himself and it always seemed that he was singing directly to whomever it was listening! Sort of like the Mona Lisa looking at you no matter where you are looking at the painting from!

Drugs? Yeah, he was wired most all the time. But a lot of his appearance in public was part of promoting his image. He wasn't as "spacey" as his promoters wanted the public to think he was! But there was NOTHING plastic or imagined about his virtuoso musical talent manifest primarily with a guitar!

[scottishlass]

David Bowie
Bruce Springsteen
Aretha Franklin
Bee Gees
Elton John
Fleetwood Mac
Heart
Queen
supremes

[MikeA]

Thank you Scottishlass

Even though it is less than twenty, it will definitely help identify who we Borderers think are the top groups.

Voting will close at 7am Thursday, July 16 for the Top-Twenty Honors.

Even if you cannot pick 20 entries from the 40 available, please jump in and add what you can to the process. All serious votes count and help portray the tastes and knowledge of those of us posting on The Border.

[Fan_For_Life]

Great list going. 13 artists on the majority list are on my personal top 20 list. Which 3 to eliminate is going to be tough. :headscratch:

[eaglesvet]

As you all know, I've been struggling with this game since the beginning. Most of the artists on the list are not my choice of "listening music". I keep thinking about Mike's challenge to vote for "who brought the most to the table". This morning as I was waking up a thought came to me, and I'm paraphrasing:"If a tree falls in the woods and I'm not there to hear it, does it make a sound?" I understand the rules, but I'm probably going to vote for who had the most effect on me.
I like your way of thinking....it makes sense!

[luvthelighthouse]

To make up for almost leaving him off my list, here's to you Buddy Holly!

Buddy was one of the first pioneers of Rock'n'Roll. One of the first inducted into the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame. He's guitar of choice was the Fender Stratocaster and many aspiring musicians wanted that as their guitar of choice. Could it be that Buddy made the Strat popular?

Both the Rolling Stones and the Beatles did renditions of Buddy's work. The Greatful Dead even performed Not Fade Away in concert.

Buddy heavily utilized the rhythym guitar along side the lead guitar to create a fuller and harder sound. Also, he was amongst the first to actually write and sing his own songs. Back in the day, there were songwriters and there were preformers. He did both! It's been said that Lennon and McCartney looked to Holly for inspiration.

It's is only right to credit Bruce Eder with the above info. I've always loved Buddy Holly, but I've learned more about him because of this little exercise. Kind of makes me appreciate him a little bit more than I did before. It's hard to believe he left us with such classic in the 18 months of performing. Peggy Sue, Oh Boy, Rave On, Not Fade Away... The ill fated day in Feb. really was the day the music died for many...

Oh, Buddy was amongst the first white people to ever play the Apollo Theater and actually won over the black audience. As for Buddy still being relavent today, even Weezer paid him tribute w/their song, Buddy Holly.

[MikeA]

There was a SIFI/Fantasy series on TV a decade or two ago about a man who had to travel in time (usually backwards to earlier years) and assume the BODY of someone long enough to set something right that person did or that someone that person knew did wrong.

In one installment, he found himself in Texas and encountered a young teenager. I recall when I watched it for the first time, the kid was sitting on the wooden porch of a Texas farm house, livestock wandering around doing whatever it is livestock does, and he was strumming a 6-string acoustic badly, trying to learn chords. Horn rimed glasses with lenses that looked thick enough to have been coke bottle bottoms. Later in the show, he was still struggling with the chords and really concentrating on the while singing: "Piggy Seueeeee, Piggy Seueeee" and other lyrics. He wasn't the target of our Hero in the show but at the very end of the show, the main character as he's leaving the scene turns around and suggests to him, "Try using Peggy Sue" in the song. Might work better." The show ended with Buddy Holly's version.

That "installment" has always stuck in my memory. It was NOT obvious this minor character in the show was the young Buddy Holly until that last scene.

[Fan_For_Life]

Mike are you referring to Quantam Leap?

[MikeA]

Mike are you referring to Quantam Leap?


YES! That's the show. Couldn't remember the name.

[MikeA]

Voting for Top-Twenty is now officially CLOSED.

Here are the top 27 (ties for last position are 8 groups with 5 votes each).

With 11 votes each:

Bob Dylan
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Rolling Stones

With 10 votes:

Aretha Franklin
Chuck Berry
Elvis Presley

With 9 votes:

BB King
Beach Boys
Michael Jackson
WHO

With 8 votes:

Buddy Holly
Eric Clapton

With 7 votes:

Bruce Springsteen
CSNY
Janis Joplin

With 6 votes:

Doors
Elton John
Pink Floyd

With 5 votes:

Bob Marley
Byrds
CCR
Fleetwood Mac
Grateful Dead
Joni Mitchell
Queen
Supremes


Those eliminated in this round:

Allman Bros
Bee Gees
Cream
David Bowie
Heart
Simon & Garfunkel
Aerosmith
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers*
Madonna
Prince
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Stevie Wonder
Little Richard
Lynyrd Skynyrd


Now, on to ROUND #3 in a fresh topic! See you there and THANKS for Voting!