Greatest Band Round #5 Finale

[MikeA]

Here are the 5 top vote getters. In this round, select only ONE contentant for the most influential in the Business Honors.

Bob Dylan
Chuck Berry
Jimi Hendrix
Elvis Presley
Rolling Stones

[MikeA]

Note that it would disappoint me NOT AT ALL if all 5 of these got an equal number of votes and TIED for Top Honors. I must admit that I am a bit shocked that Led Zeppelin did not make the final cut but I don't know who I would have chopped to make room for them! There is an absolute dead head between two of the final 5 in my mind and I don't see how I can vote for one over the other!

<SIGH>

[TimothyBFan]

I'm not going to play with any of you any more!!!!! I can't believe Zep is gone!!! What the heck people?

I had this all figured out--now what am I going to do! When do you need our final vote by Mike?

[luvthelighthouse]

Last round I said it pained me to cut Zeppelin, so I know how you feel. I just decide between Dylan, Berry and Hendrix. I've already crossed Elvis and Stones off of my list. This is where subjectivity comes in, eh?

[EagleLady]

Elvis Presley

[cynd1231]

BOB DYLAN

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well, I’m not too surprised at the results here. It is hard for me to choose with the bands and solo acts mixed. I am very conflicted right now about which act will get my final vote – right now it’s a virtual tie in my mind. When I decide, I’m going to rank my top five.

If you take away the solo acts, the way I see it, there are four bands that are in the very top echelon above and beyond all others – The Beatles, Eagles, The Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin. The criteria I used in forming my opinion are:


Popularity
Quality and quantity of their music and songwriting
Influence on other musicians and rock culture
Longevity

Of course, my two favorites were left out of this “experiment”. Now if they had been included, I think The Beatles should probably win most of the time in any kind of poll, contest, or “exercise” such as this. My second place vote would go to the Eagles, even though I know everyone would not agree with me. I personally think the Eagles have always been extremely underrated by the critics. Also, because of their mass appeal, I think in some respects it was considered “cool” to hate them – kinda the anti-establishment attitude. It’s very difficult to explain because in so many ways the Eagles were among the anti-establishment, but yet, they somehow managed to break the barrier with their beautiful harmonies and melodies so that their music also appealed to the establishment. It’s as if some people loved their music, harmonies, and melodies so much that they didn’t care what the lyrics were about. Even though they are the band that defines country rock, they also managed to very successfully crossover into so many other genres of music. So while the band does have some detractors, I believe their popularity surpasses the Stones and Zeppelin, and that helps earn them 2nd place on my list. I just don’t believe that any other band has such widespread “crossover” appeal among all kinds of people and age groups. Many people from all walks of life just plain and simply love their music. I think this is why, even after the band broke up, their music just wouldn’t die.

I’ve never been a huge Rolling Stones fan, but their longevity alone puts them very close to the Eagles on my list. As has already been pointed out, these guys were kind of the “anti-Beatles” when they first arrived on the scene with a harder, edgier, sound – perhaps the precursor to hard rock. I like a lot of their songs, but not to extent that I like Eagles songs. There is no denying the impact they have had on rock music. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any other band that has stayed together for 45 years without breaking up.

Now, this brings me to Led Zeppelin. My purely objective head acknowledges that they have earned a place among the other three elite bands mentioned here. However, my heart always tells me that they have also always been overrated. They are the original hard rock band. It’s not that they aren’t talented, and I know they have big fan base and sold lots of records, but I don’t believe they (or hard rock) have anywhere near the broad crossover appeal of The Beatles or the Eagles. For whatever reasons, as much as it was considered “cool” for the anti-establishment to hate the Eagles, it was also considered “cool” to like Zeppelin. To this day, I still feel so “uncool” when I admit that I am not a big fan. But, I actually know a lot of other people who feel much the same way as I do. In all honesty, Stairway to Heaven is about the only Zeppelin song that I like a lot – to me, it is indeed the band’s one true masterpiece. Most of their music just doesn’t appeal to me. The only CD I own these days is Mothership, but I never listen to it. I actually once tried to give it away to my 18 year old niece, but she listened to it and said “no thanks”. Sorry, Led Zeppelin fans, but I just don’t think their music resonates that well outside of the hard rock/heavy metal fan base, and that is the reason that the band didn’t make the final cut here.

[MikeA]

I'm not going to play with any of you any more!!!!! I can't believe Zep is gone!!! What the heck people?

I had this all figured out--now what am I going to do! When do you need our final vote by Mike?

Willie,

I've been giving 48 hours between rounds. So to keep it level, I'll make the final tally Wednesday morning at 7am CDT (-6 hrs GMT).

BTW...I could make a solid case for ANY of the TOP-10 and certainly for the TOP-5. I really do not think we are going to come to any conclusions here. I'm thinking there is going to be a veritable tie between these top-5 finalists. I'll make the Tally, but am NOT going to suggest any "tie-breakers" to eliminate all but ONE.

In my opinion, it is a dead heat between Dylan and Hendrix and with that said, I can argue myself out of that statement when it comes to crossing off Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley or the Stones. I just don't have either the objectivity or the data to empirically conclude that any of the top 5 stand significantly above the other four in enough ways to designate them "THE Greatest".

I'm happy with just having narrowed it down to the TOP-TEN. My selections for the top-5 were pretty much arbitrary...random selection.

And before anyone else says it, I'll say it myself:

"THAT'S A COPOUT"

[luvthelighthouse]

I think this is hard, becuase you aren't comparing the same things. How can you decide who contributes more, a songwriter or a guitar player. KWIM?

As for Chuck... the creator of rock'n'roll? So yeah, I may just throw a dart and see where it lands.

[Prettymaid]

Chuck Berry for the win!

[MikeA]

Chuck Berry had the concept and did play different genres in order to hook more people and become more popular. Nothing wrong with that. And it did pave the way in general for what was to come. You can never take that away from him.

But when it comes down to who did the most, I think that the Stones, Presley (who pioneered along with Berry), didn't contribute as much to the basics as did Dylan and Hendrix.

Dylan certainly gets "my" nod for busting the game wide open when it came to the content and relative significance of popular music.

Hendrix gets the nod for technical breakthroughs both in prodigy class (COMPLETE use of the guitar as an instrument) and in his innovations with hardware. But it didn't stop there. His innovations in the studio with production set new standards.

In terms of Performance, I'd give the nod to Stones or Presley and I can't chose between the two of them!

So in my own criteria, there are three factors: Songwriting, Technical and Performance.

With those three Criteria, I think that Hendrix probably came the closest to excelling in contributions in all three than the other four. He was an accomplished songwriter. He was the focus of performances in everything from his flashy stage presence along with the theatrics of burning his guitar (a gimmic I think he got from The Who with their violent destruction of equipment). Then to top it off, he introduced "effects pedals" both to generate distortion as well as the new Wah Wah pedal effects. He became a master in the studio in putting the polish on the end product fully incorporating the new "stereo" format that no one really knew how to use before he showed them.

It is quite possible to be validly argued that others excelled Jimi in either Songwriting or Performance, but I don't think any of the artists did all three of the major categories as well as Hendrix and certainly, none exceeded his self taught expertise with his instrument of choice which set the standard for guitar players that has lasted through to the current day.

My vote has to go for

Jimi Hendrix

[TimothyBFan]

However, my heart always tells me that they have also always been overrated.

Well Dreamer--you have truly broken my heart with that statement! :weep:But everyone has their opinion, even if it's wrong. :hilarious: Actually you aren't the only one that I've ever heard say that even tho I don't get it but like I've admitted before, I don't get the whole Beatles thing myself so it's all a matter of taste I believe.

After a long and hard thought process (which really hasn't helped much) I narrowed it down to Hendrix and the Stones. I kept telling myself that by golly, the Stones are still doing it as good as they ever did. But then that isn't fair to Jimi because I think he probably would still have been also given the chance.

Elvis & Chuck of course were there first and paved the way but don't think they are really deserving and don't really know why. Maybe I'm just a tad to young to remember the hysteria of Elvis and all. When it comes to songwriting, no one can deny that Dylan definitely broke that wide open. They don't call him a poet for nothing.

Which once again brings me to my last 2 choices. I wish we had narrowed this down to two catergories, group and individual, then I would have my winner for both. But I am going to give the nod to....

JIMI HENDRIX for the win. Sorry Mick & Company!

[luvthelighthouse]

Heaven knows I've thought about this too much! I have decided to eliminate Chuck Berry. His contributions are nothing short of awesome, but hey, I had to cut someone.

Mike, you have made good agruements for Hendrix all along. I agree that he was certainly an innovator. His playing style unique and never quite duplicated... but to me, what makes a song is the lyrics. Even if it has a good beat and you can dance to it (American Bandstand for those that may have been lost on), I need content. Yes, some instrumentals are great, but I'm a lyric girl. I like the story, I want the visuals. I want someone to wow me with their mind. Others wanted to sing Dylan's songs, The Byrds, Sonny and Cher, Manford Mann, etc... He influenced Lennon, McCartney, Joni Mitchell, Cat Stevens and the list surly goes on. His lyrics made you think, they were smart, I like that! While it wasn't easy, my vote goes to

Bob Dylan.

To back my arguement, he wrote for a nation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yaoc_mMMTFk&feature=related

[MikeA]

Good arguments everyone! You cannot lose in choosing any of these five! Between Dylan and Hendrix, I don't think there is a hairsbreath of superiority or in contributions and influence either. It just depends on which rubber ruller you use to do the measurements.

[eaglesvet]

OK, it's very tough....and of course, if we had categories for solo and group, I'd be all set. Choosing between Dylan and the Stones, for arguments already well said by the others...I choose Bob Dylan.

[Brooke]

Well, I’m not too surprised at the results here. It is hard for me to choose with the bands and solo acts mixed. I am very conflicted right now about which act will get my final vote – right now it’s a virtual tie in my mind. When I decide, I’m going to rank my top five.

If you take away the solo acts, the way I see it, there are four bands that are in the very top echelon above and beyond all others – The Beatles, Eagles, The Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin. The criteria I used in forming my opinion are:


Popularity
Quality and quantity of their music and songwriting
Influence on other musicians and rock culture
Longevity
Of course, my two favorites were left out of this “experiment”. Now if they had been included, I think The Beatles should probably win most of the time in any kind of poll, contest, or “exercise” such as this. My second place vote would go to the Eagles, even though I know everyone would not agree with me. I personally think the Eagles have always been extremely underrated by the critics. Also, because of their mass appeal, I think in some respects it was considered “cool” to hate them – kinda the anti-establishment attitude. It’s very difficult to explain because in so many ways the Eagles were among the anti-establishment, but yet, they somehow managed to break the barrier with their beautiful harmonies and melodies so that their music also appealed to the establishment. It’s as if some people loved their music, harmonies, and melodies so much that they didn’t care what the lyrics were about. Even though they are the band that defines country rock, they also managed to very successfully crossover into so many other genres of music. So while the band does have some detractors, I believe their popularity surpasses the Stones and Zeppelin, and that helps earn them 2nd place on my list. I just don’t believe that any other band has such widespread “crossover” appeal among all kinds of people and age groups. Many people from all walks of life just plain and simply love their music. I think this is why, even after the band broke up, their music just wouldn’t die.

I’ve never been a huge Rolling Stones fan, but their longevity alone puts them very close to the Eagles on my list. As has already been pointed out, these guys were kind of the “anti-Beatles” when they first arrived on the scene with a harder, edgier, sound – perhaps the precursor to hard rock. I like a lot of their songs, but not to extent that I like Eagles songs. There is no denying the impact they have had on rock music. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any other band that has stayed together for 45 years without breaking up.

Now, this brings me to Led Zeppelin. My purely objective head acknowledges that they have earned a place among the other three elite bands mentioned here. However, my heart always tells me that they have also always been overrated. They are the original hard rock band. It’s not that they aren’t talented, and I know they have big fan base and sold lots of records, but I don’t believe they (or hard rock) have anywhere near the broad crossover appeal of The Beatles or the Eagles. For whatever reasons, as much as it was considered “cool” for the anti-establishment to hate the Eagles, it was also considered “cool” to like Zeppelin. To this day, I still feel so “uncool” when I admit that I am not a big fan. But, I actually know a lot of other people who feel much the same way as I do. In all honesty, Stairway to Heaven is about the only Zeppelin song that I like a lot – to me, it is indeed the band’s one true masterpiece. Most of their music just doesn’t appeal to me. The only CD I own these days is Mothership, but I never listen to it. I actually once tried to give it away to my 18 year old niece, but she listened to it and said “no thanks”. Sorry, Led Zeppelin fans, but I just don’t think their music resonates that well outside of the hard rock/heavy metal fan base, and that is the reason that the band didn’t make the final cut here.

Dreamer, this is all perfect! Thank you for this.

First of all, this contest started out being to choose the greatest BAND. Now I know they all had bands behind them, but they weren't known for them.

So, some of you may not like it for that reason, but my vote goes to

THE STONES.

They've been my choice from the very beginning, as you know. As someone just said, they've been doing it for over 40 years and most of the time, they've done it very well and not broken up.

That doesn't in any way diminish what these others have done, but this is for The Band.

[EagleLady]

Why does it have to be a band? A solo artist can also influence a generation, JMHO.

[luvthelighthouse]

Why does it have to be a band? A solo artist can also influence a generation, JMHO.

I think she just means the contest originally started as, "who is the second greatest band" ... not second greatest act. It was lightly debated in the beginning if we should just do bands or allow solo acts as well. It's Mike's game and he decided to allow both. That's all Brooke meant, I think.

[Brooke]

Exactly right, ltlh. Thanks.

[EagleLady]

Well, IMHO, I think if Both Bands and Acts are influential, then they both should be included.

[luvthelighthouse]

I would like to have had two classifications, more for solo artist and one for bands... but that would have been even more work! All in all, this was really fun and way too thought provoking! Also, I learned some things along the way too... I think that was the best part for me. I was talking about these artists to someone at work and another person rounds the corner and says, "wow, you sure know a lot about the music of my generation, I don't even know all that". She was impressed and I felt cool. :hilarious:

[MikeA]

EagleLady, Brooke, and everyone else,

You are right about the name of the "game"....I definitely stated at teh beginning, that it was "Second Greatest Band" thinking that I had to state it somewhat like that to disallow Both the Beatles and Eagles from the competition. The Beatles, well, because every poll ever taken has rated them the #1 influence. I wanted the Eagles eliminated simply because of the bias of this Forum.

Now, I have to make apologies for the rest of the title. I was more concerned with the elimination of the Eagles and Beatles with use of the word "SECOND BEST" than I was in my misuse of the word BAND. It never occurred to me that we wouldn't be including both solo acts as well as bands when I initially suggested we do something like this.

"We" (Mainly Luvthelighthouse and I if I remember correctly) talked about whether we should have two contests...one for bands and one for individuals.

I thought about it and decided that rather than have another contest to decide the rules on this contest (LOL) we should include BOTH individuals as well as groups. My reasoning really was that if there was a band contest, it would probably include an individual who would probably be a major contender in the individual contest.

So in the end, it was MY decision and no one else can claim that responsibility <LOL> I shall bare my back (but only to the waist!) and allow alternating participants to whip me with wet noodles!

If we had two contests, one for individuals and one for bands, it could result in Brian Wilson winning the Individual contest and then the Beach Boys (mainly because of the output of Brian Wilson) winning the Band contest....so in reality, there would be only one contest.

By doing it the way we have done it with both in the same contest, my hope was that we would come up with the most influential factor in Music Culture whether it be an individual Artist or the conglomerative efforts of a complete Band.

The bottom line is that the entire thing should have been named:

"The Second Greatest Influence to Music Culture" or something like that.

The good thing about this is that no band or individual is going to get much gratification from the thoughts of the eleven or twelve of us participating in this momentous endeavor! <LOL>

It has been good mental exercise. It has caused me anyway, to look at a lot of factors associated with groups and individuals that I had not paid enough attention to in the past....genres that I have little emotional interest in.

[EagleLady]

Disallowing The Eagles just because this is an Eagles forum is very uncalled for.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Disallowing The Eagles just because this is an Eagles forum is very uncalled for.

And so is your rude remark!

Since Mike was the one who initiated this "experiment", he could establish any rules and guidelines that he wanted to. Anyone who doesn't like his rules is free to "opt" out.

[luvthelighthouse]

Disallowing The Eagles just because this is an Eagles forum is very uncalled for.

You are joking, right? I took it as a joke... but maybe you are serious. If you are serious, you have to understand where Mike was coming from. I mean, we all hang out on an Eagle message forum... we wouldn't be here if we all didn't love the band and think they were amongst the best. Heck, if they were allowed in the contest, I'd put that at the top of my list!

[EagleLady]

And so is your rude remark!

Since Mike was the one who initiated this "experiment", he could establish any rules and guidelines that he wanted to. Anyone who doesn't like his rules is free to "opt" out.



Rude? This is America, Freedom of speech, Right to an opinion.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Rude? This is America, Freedom of speech, Right to an opinion.

EL - At the risk of totally hijacking this thread or going into an extended lecture on the 1st amendment to the U.S. Constitution, let me just say that freedom of speech does not extend to a message board that is created and run by individuals on the Internet. The owner of this site set the rules here and if you review them, they ask that all of the members here be respectful of one another.

[EagleLady]

Ok then. :computer:

[MikeA]

I tried to explain why I disqualified the Eagles AND Beatles. With either in the contest, it simply would not have generated the interest. No Brainer. Eagles Win, Beatles come in Second. End of discussion. I don't know how I could more clearly state that as a reason and it was stated in the BEGINNING before any votes were cast.

As for 1st Ammendment Rights, yup....the right is there to say whatever you wish. But you ain't gonna get no Dale Carnegie "Win Friends and Influence People" awards. <LOL>

If anyone is confused or offended by my statements, then I respectfully suggest making use of the "IGNORE POST" option this Forum so thoughtfully provided.

Personally, I've had fun with this. I found it extremely interesting. No regrets other than I wish I had come up with a different Thread Title.

[EagleLady]

Sorry! I did not mean to offend anyone. Perhaps I should stay away for a while :-x:-(

[TimothyBFan]

Mike---I thank you very much for this and hope we can do something similar once again. I thoroughly enjoyed it!! I wish to give you a great big ovation :applause::applause::applause::applause: for all your hard work!!! I know it took some time. Also thanks to everyone that participated and put in their 2 cents, it was extremely interesting to see what everyone's opinions were. I'm always open to hear people's takes on my greatest pleasure in life, music! It's been fun playing with all of you---- even tho in the long run, you all voted for the wrong act. :hilarious:

[Freypower]

Mike, I agree with TBF. Congratulations to you on the hard work and stimulating discussion you have created here.

Now for my vote. It was always going to be either the Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan. But ultimately when I consider which act I believe to have been the most influential, well.... 'you can call me Bobby or you can call me Zimmy'!

It has to be the great Robert Allen Zimmerman. Too many of his songs are touchstones for my life. Two examples only:

'Ain't it just like the night, playing tricks when you're trying to be so quiet' (Visions of Johanna).

'There was music in the cafes at night and revolution in the air' (Tangled Up In Blue).

[luvthelighthouse]

Sorry! I did not mean to offend anyone. Perhaps I should stay away for a while :-x:-(

I personally don't think that is neccessary. I believe people can say what they want... just remember, others also have the right to comment too. All in all, no biggie.

I'm personally awaiting the results to be in, but that's not gonna be for another day! Mike, thanks for all the work you put into this. I think we all probably learned something we didn't know a week ago. :thumbsup:

[MikeA]

Let me make a prediction based on scientific research and analysis conceived and initiated by a self proclaimed Statisstition dealing primarily in Probabilities using the aggregate accumulation of permeations concerning the objective data collected from a statistical universe; somewhere beyond the Twilight Zone.

Bob Dylan is going to win <LOL>

But that's just my guess.

[sodascouts]

My vote:

ELVIS PRESLEY.

He's called "the king of rock'n'roll" for a reason. Before Elvis, music from the likes of Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby was what dominated popular radio. No offense to those guys, but it sure wasn't rock. At the time, a lot of white folks considered what would become rock music as vulgar and low-class. Elvis brought it to the mainstream.

He also was the one who introduced the sex-ay into mainstream live performances. It may look tame now, but thrusting while you're grunting out "woah, woah, woah" on live television was pretty wild back then. A lot of girls had fantasies that never occurred to them while watching Bing Crosby stand there singing "bubaloo."

As the saying goes - women wanted him. Men wanted to BE him.

When we're talking influence and longevity... Elvis is universally recognized as a pioneer and many people credit him as an influence - in fact, most of the other "contestants" in this very competition have credited him as an influence including the Stones, Hendrix, and Dylan. Mick Jagger called him "an original in an area of imitators." Heck, Dylan even referenced Elvis in a song!

Elvis still has name recognition among all ages. That can't be said of many people who came on the scene more than fifty years ago, including Chuck Berry unfortunately.

Dylan as a lyricist is wonderfully unique, but I can't get over that awful voice (sorry).

GO ELVIS!

P.S. I still think Fleetwood Mac is the greatest band along with the Eagles!

[Maleah]

Mike I think you did a freakin' awesome job! I thoroughlly enjoyed this entire thing! Well....from the part where I came in at least. ;-)

This is SOOOO hard! But I'm going to have to agree with Soda on this one. You want to talk about longevity?? The man has been dead for how many years? And his music is still selling like crazy? Graceland is still one of the most popular tourist attractions? There are how many impersonators? lol And plus...there aren't many people who are known by just one name.....whether it's first or last in his case. ;) I think it's quite possible that everyone in the entire world could know who Elvis was! lol

So I vote (obviously) for Elvis Presley!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Mike - I also want to say thanks for all of your hard work and research during this. It has been entertaining and informative. :applause:


Well Dreamer--you have truly broken my heart with that statement! :weep:

Oh c'mon, TBF - don't be a wimp, now! :lol: But, seriously, no matter how objective we try to be about the music we love, when it comes right down to it, you are right - it's all boils down to our subjective personal tastes. OMG - does that mean all this analyzing we've been doing was meaningless? :faint: :wink:


Dreamer, this is all perfect! Thank you for this.

Hey, Brooke - you are welcome. You should expect nothing less from your twin separated at birth! :thumbsup:

Okay - now for the voting. I was going to hold off before casting my vote as I usually do in these types of things. However, I figured I'd go ahead and make this into a contest. So without further ado, here is my final list ...

5) Jimi Hendrix
4) Bob Dylan
3) Chuck Berry
2) The Rolling Stones

and my choice to win it all is, of course ...

Elvis Presley

I had been trying to decide between The Stones and Elvis, and quite honestly was leaning towards the Stones. However, since it doesn't seem like they have any chance of winning, and, especially after reading the persuasive cases that Soda and Maleah made, it sealed the deal for me. So, as it stands right now, both Bob Dylan and Elvis have 4 votes apiece. Will someone come along and break the tie or will it end like this. Ahhh - the suspense!!! :pace:

[luvthelighthouse]

Ugh, no! Elvis is so cliche...

It's kinda like what Hotel California is to Eagles. What Stairway to Heaven is to Zeppelin... both great songs from great bands... but so cliche too. We know these bands have better songs (in our opinions)... and I feel music has better musicians than Elvis.

Now, I'm not saying Elvis didn't contribute... but isn't he overrated, just a wee bit? Maybe? Just a tad?

I guess I figured it would be down to Hendrix and Dylan... boy was I wrong!

[TimothyBFan]

Let me make a prediction based on scientific research and analysis conceived and initiated by a self proclaimed Statisstition dealing primarily in Probabilities using the aggregate accumulation of permeations concerning the objective data collected from a statistical universe; somewhere beyond the Twilight Zone.


:headscratch::dizzy::unimpressed::crazy::shrug::hu h: Could you give that to me just one more time? :hilarious:

[MikeA]

Can't argue with Elvis. I was a young teenager when he made his splash (okay, tital wave) in music. But I never got into him either musically or wishing to be him. Didn't wear my hair slicked back or try to learn to curl my lip. I said earlier, though I was NOT "Country" as were most of my peers, I prefered Ricky Nelson. But I really preferred Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, Albert King.

So I guess I just never "got" Elvis though I freely admit I was in the minority, especially where the girls came into the picture!

As for his contributions, I think the one most "underrated" was his acting career. It wasn't Michael Jackson who busted open the Music Video. It was Elvis in the late Fifties and all through the Sixties. His "movies" were sorry excuses dramatically speaking. But they were a FANtastic platform to showcase Elvis as a singer and performer. Face it, in the early days, his stage act was as crucial as his voice. He was a very VISUAL performer and the Theater Screens showcased him better than anything else and the Audio Technology made the Theaters a much better way to listen to him than radio or the cheap record players available at the time.

To my knowledge, Elvis never wrote a single song! And that's okay. Not everyone noted as a Legend in Music had to be a writer or an instrumentalist. Elvis had far greater qualities that guaranteed his popularity and his significance!

[Brooke]

Let me make a prediction based on scientific research and analysis conceived and initiated by a self proclaimed Statisstition dealing primarily in Probabilities using the aggregate accumulation of permeations concerning the objective data collected from a statistical universe; somewhere beyond the Twilight Zone.


:rofl:

Let me add my thanks also, Mike. This was really fun and informative. I know you put a lot of hard work into it and I really enjoyed it. And I hope all the losers aren't too sad. I don't think it will hurt their careers any!

And let me say, I would have chosen the Beatles and the Eagles, too, so I'm glad they were left out of this particular 'exercise'. There would have been no point, as you said.

All in all, great job and good fun! Thanks to everyone that put in their 2 cents worth, too!

[MikeA]

You guys overrate the effort required. Spreadsheets are wonderful creations, especially when you can us Subtotal Count functions <LOL>

Here's what it looks like after sorting and subtotaling. Takes three steps with one manual effort in placing the subtotal number in a column on one of the contestants' names. Then a final sort and this is what I get with the top list being what I "publish". Nothing to it.

The initials to the right are the initials of the voter so I can make corrections if someone changes their mind.


Bob Dylan 4 ev
Elvis Presley 4 el
Jimi Hendrix 2 ma
Chuck Berry 1 pm
Rolling Stones 1 Brooke

0
1
2
1
4
11
Bob Dylan cynd
Bob Dylan LTLH
Bob Dylan fp
Elvis Presley IABAD
Elvis Presley Maleah
Elvis Presley ss
Jimi Hendrix tbf

[Maleah]

As far as Elvis being "overrated".......aren't they all? I mean really? lol I think one could make that case for anyone if you're not exactly a fan in some way. If I spent the time typing it all out, there's something I could come up with for each of these that is overrated in some way. lol to me it just comes down to who has had the most longevity....the most influence....who had the most impact on the world around them? A lot of different factors....regardless of what I, personally, think about them. Because, like I said before, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a "fan" of a lot of these. ;) let's face, as has been said before......a big part of this is personal opinion and taste.....as hard as we try to avoid it ;)

[luvthelighthouse]

True Maleah. I don't own any music from the top 5 contenders... and yes, I believe we can all find reasons for any act to be overrated. Except the Beatles... and even then, I'm sure some would disagree.

I think another contributor to "some" acts success is their death. Really though, so many died young and then became immortalized through song... so would they still be considered awesome today had they lived? I don't know if anyone really has that answer. :shrug:

[MikeA]

As far as Elvis being "overrated".......aren't they all? I mean really? lol I think one could make that case for anyone if you're not exactly a fan in some way. If I spent the time typing it all out, there's something I could come up with for each of these that is overrated in some way. lol to me it just comes down to who has had the most longevity....the most influence....who had the most impact on the world around them? A lot of different factors....regardless of what I, personally, think about them. Because, like I said before, I wouldn't necessarily call myself a "fan" of a lot of these. ;) let's face, as has been said before......a big part of this is personal opinion and taste.....as hard as we try to avoid it ;)

I'm not sure to which statement you were making reference to in regards to Elvis being "overrated". I said something about him being "underrated" because of his contributions to "VIDEO" when I equated his movie stardom to Rock Music Videos.

Oh, in the post before your's, I said something about efforts being "overrated" but I was talking about MY efforts in tabulating the voting results.

Elvis is or was Elvis. Someone who could not be ignored. He wasn't <smile>

[luvthelighthouse]

Mike, it was a response to my comment. I said earlier, isn't Elvis overrated, just a wee bid, maybe? :)

[MikeA]

It's kind of fun to read about Elvis. He wasn't a song writer though he has credit for one song that someone gave him the rights to so he could buy a car for his mother with the proceeds. He wasn't an accomplished musician with any musical instrument except for his voice (and that was definitely an "instrument").

He wasn't much of an actor though he appeared as the Star in 33 motion pictures.

He didn't even invent his "style" according to what I've read. He was told by Sam Phillips of Sun Records what he wanted. Elvis couldn't do it but in that same session during a break, he and the session musicians started playing around and Phillips did record that because it was exactly what he was looking for ("That's All Right Mama"). Presley was in the right place at the right time and let's face it, that's how about half of the early stars got their start!

Even his signature gyrations on stage began as stage fright...nerves. But they were in tune with his developing confidence and he incorporated them and was known as much for those antics on-stage as much as anything else. Along with the "outlandish" costumes he wore, his longer than normal slicked-back hair and long sideburns, his style became iconic. Add to that a voice and attitude that was incomparable, and a star was born.

His voice: I'll give him FULL PROPS for this. When he sang something, ANYTHING, he put EVERYTHING he had into it. No one has ever squeezed emotion from a tune like Elvis Presley...NEVER. Think of some of the ballads and love songs he sang like "Love Me Tender". Well, draw your own conclusions, but if he didn't invent the term "Sex Symbol" he certainly epitomized it.

So, with no other criteria that quality of voice and presentation, he certainly is deserving of consideration.

After going this far with the "contest", I've come to the conclusion based on the things that impress each of us who have stated reasons for our selections, that there are three sub-categories and I may have mentioned only two before:

Songwriting, to which I gave Dylan an unqualified checkmark. He broke the barriers of what could and couldn't be stated in music and turned it into a tool for mass communications as well as entertainment. Thank God he did that! I was sick of hearing songs about "First Love", "First Kiss" and "Itty Bitty Yellow Poka Dot Bikinis!" The traditional Folkies were doing some of that but few cared. They weren't that popular. How many of you ever heard of the Women Folk? Not many I'll bet, yet they were one of the more popular Folk groups along with Peter, Paul & Mary, Trini Lopez and the Kingston Trio. I'm talking about back in the late 50's and early 60's. And that's where Dylan "exploded". He was basically a Folkie with acoustic instruments and then he "plugged in" to the grief of a lot of his fans. Then started the Folk Rock movement for which CSNY became known.

Presentation for which I'd have to go with Presley. Good grief, with a new genre, attempts to appeal to both Black and White audiences (and for a long time, people didn't know whether he was Black or White!) and an artist with nothing much to offer except his incredible voice and presentation, and "unique appearance", no one else comes close. Not the Beatles, not the Stones, not the Who...NOT NOBODY!

Then there are the Technical innovations which I'll give to Hendrix and won't elaborate on AGAIN.

All three of these people in their own way, more than anyone else EVER in my own opinion, eclipsed the rest of the entries on our lists. And to be quite honest, at the risk of my reputation and neck should any of you learn where I live (I'll send you my address <LOL>), I'd go so far as to say that these three MMFs (Major Musical Factors!) outshine even the Beatles and Eagles. There, I said it. I think that between these three, foundations were laid that changed music forever.

[sodascouts]

There is no one who is going to perfectly meet everyone's idea of what the "Greatest" should be. Not all singers can write good songs. Not all talented musicians can write songs. Not all songwriters can sing. Not all songwriters are master musicians. Even that is subjective; who has a "Great" voice? Some people love Dylan's sound, but his voice makes my ears bleed. What makes an innovator? Doesn't every "new" idea have a precursor that led to it, that inspired it? How do we judge? What do we prioritize in terms of criteria? Is any one or two criteria more legitimate than the others? There is no "right" answer to these questions.

So, in the end, you gotta go with your gut.

ELVIS FOR THE WIN!

[MikeA]

I think You're right Nancy. I was editing post #47 when you posted the one before this one.

[luvthelighthouse]

ELVIS FOR THE WIN!

Or Dylan... :) Aren't we currently at a tie?

[MikeA]

Or Dylan... :) Aren't we currently at a tie?


Yup. Shore are! A tie

[EagleLady]

Or Dylan... :) Aren't we currently at a tie?


Yep, but anything can happen. To me, It doesn't matter who wins, Dylan and Elvis are both great :)

[MikeA]

Oh, It ain't over yet! I've busily employed all of my spambots in a campaign of unmitigated effort to convince the masses that a vote for Buddy Guy will put money and love in every pocket. I have confidence he will win!

[Fan_For_Life]

Rolling Stones :)

[sodascouts]

ELVIS FOR THE WIN!

Or Dylan... :) Aren't we currently at a tie?

Yeah, that's why I said FOR the win. I'm cheering for him. Otherwise it'd be "Elvis has won" lol.

[MikeA]

And the Winner(s) are:

Bob Dylan and Elvis Presley tied with 4 votes each.

The complete tally is in the attachment.

Thanks to all who participated. I really enjoyed it.

[MikeA]

What? No exultations?????

Think about this:

What if the talents of Elvis Presley and Bob Dylan were put together?

WOW

[luvthelighthouse]

What if the talents of Elvis Presley and Bob Dylan were put together?





You get Bruce Springsteen, right? :hilarious:

[TimothyBFan]

Congrats to both.... But the real winner in my book is still...

LED ZEPPELIN

[MikeA]

I do know what you both mean. I seriously doubt that anyone changed their preferences. That's a matter of personal taste.

I can't say that the ones chosen were undeserving though. I think there was some very valid reasoning applied in choosing them. And that was after-all what this was intended to be...a stimulant to generate some really independent thought about these artists.

[Prettymaid]

I think that what this excercise showed me is that I have a hard time talking and thinking about music with my head! It's all about the feeling for me. It was interesting though!

Congratulations to the winners!

Mike, thanks for coming up with the game- now let's do something easier!!! :hilarious:

[MikeA]

Okay Cathy,

I have a new Quarter. ON it are two sides and an edge. Which of the three surfaces are superior and why?

Voting will commence Thursday morning.

LOL

[eaglesvet]

You get Bruce Springsteen, right? :hilarious:[/center]
Love this comment!! That's basically why I voted for Dylan, in honor of all the singer-songwriters who followed in his footsteps, so I'm glad you took it one step further!!

[eaglesvet]

Seriously, I really enjoyed this game, Mike and everyone. I think we all learned to explore a little outside our own comfort zones in music, that's for sure. There's no way when we first started with the 82 that I ever thought that the final one (or two) would be who we ended up with, that's for sure. (Actually, I would've bet five dollars to a doughnut that Willie would be smilin' and Led Zep would be the winner, and look where that would've gotten me!) But, I do think that we have chosen two very influential artists in music history, and of that we can be proud!:thumbsup:

[luvthelighthouse]

I've been saying it the whole time, but this was so enjoyable for me! Music is a passion of mine, which is funny since I can't play an instrument or sing to save my life! I loved this game, because I thirst for musical knowledge. I learned a lot about some artists I previously had known nothing about!

I couldn't even imagine the winner when this first began... but now that the end is here, I'm pleased. Thanks so everyone, it's because of the choices that were made that I did my research and loved every minute of it!

[sodascouts]

I'm actually not surprised by the final two. While they both have different strengths, in their own specialty, each has been hailed as "the greatest" before. We're just joining the chorus. ;) I for one am happy with a tie.

Thanks for the fun, Mike! Well done!

[MikeA]

I couldn't even imagine the winner when this first began... but now that the end is here, I'm pleased. Thanks so everyone, it's because of the choices that were made that I did my research and loved every minute of it!

Have you read many books on the early days of Rock? You know, ones like those about the Eagles, Felder's book, books about Laurel Canyon, those two autobiographies by David Crosby....many many others?

I have books on Stevie Ray Vaughan, Janis Joplin, Grateful Dead, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix and who knows who else! They are just packed with trivia...some valid and some that are either "spun" towards the author's viewpoint, or that have been "mis-remembered". God knows there were enough mind altering drugs involved back in the early years (and probably today as well) that much that is provided in the books has to be sort of "sifted" to get at the most likely reality.

Unfortunately, it wasn't just the Artists who were "tripping". Agents, Record Execs and Fans were all playing that game...or most of them were. So "eye witness" accounts are not necessarily validating factors! But they do make a good read!

[EagleLady]

Well, Mike I guess you can say you have a Rock N' Roll Library ;)

[MikeA]

I've got a good start on one EL. I'm missing books on Elvis, Beatles and I know there are a ton of them written and available. I don't know about some of the others though I presume they have "histories"....Led Zep, Stones (I know they do!) The Who, Beach Boys, Dylan....My thirst for this kind of thing is insatiable.

I only regret that I cannot retain all that information. The up-side of that though is that I can go back and re-read those books and still enjoy reading them <LOL>

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Congratulations to Bob Dylan and Elvis Presley on their tie in our little Border experiment. I'm honestly not too surprised at the results either.

It was fun and informative, and I agree with others who say it all boils down to our personal tastes. But that is probably the way it should be. No matter how objective we try to be about music, or what criteria we use to judge, it is probably impossible not to let our preferences influence us.

[Fan_For_Life]

We had a discussion about this at the dinner table tonight and my daughter who is a huge Elvis fan was thrilled. She also made a comment about Bob Dylan and said he may have been an influence on the rap movement too.

Thank you Mike for taking the time to tally all the votes. Great way to feed through musicians I haven't listened to in a while and some I may have heard once or twice growing up and now because of this I am now making a trip to the record store this weekend. :)

[Maleah]

Great job Mike! :thumbsup: Truly enjoyed it and I'm quite satisfied with the result being a tie between two fantastic artists!

[Freypower]

We had a discussion about this at the dinner table tonight and my daughter who is a huge Elvis fan was thrilled. She also made a comment about Bob Dylan and said he may have been an influence on the rap movement too.

Thank you Mike for taking the time to tally all the votes. Great way to feed through musicians I haven't listened to in a while and some I may have heard once or twice growing up and now because of this I am now making a trip to the record store this weekend. :)


I would have thought if Dylan influenced rap it could only have been in the rapid fire delivery of Subterranean Homesick Blues. I can't see anything else except perhaps the use of free form lyrics.

[eaglesvet]

I didn't know where to put this bit of info, but since this forum is the first place I heard of this artist (thanks to Mike), this is where I chose. I noted today that John Mayall, legendary blues guitarist is going to be performing 2 shows in a lovely old theater in quaint Sellersville, PA in mid-August. Tix are $35-$50 pp. I thought that was pretty cool for those of you who might be interested in seeing one of the greats, and might be out this way in the summer.

The same theater is having a tribute band for the Eagles known as Hotel California later this week, but it is sold out.

[TimothyBFan]

I didn't know where to put this bit of info, but since this forum is the first place I heard of this artist (thanks to Mike), this is where I chose. I noted today that John Mayall, legendary blues guitarist is going to be performing 2 shows in a lovely old theater in quaint Sellersville, PA in mid-August.

WOW!! I guess I didn't realize he was still doing anything as far as shows. He's in his mid 70's or so! Would love to get a chance to see this but unfortunately, will probably never get a chance ever.

[MikeA]

Mayall was/is pure. Never wanted to do anything but perpetuate Blues and started at a time when Blues wasn't "cool". I don't know that I ever really liked a lot of what he recorded, but I nothing but adulation for the influence he had on so many of the Legends that got their start with him.

If you don't know who I mean, look up a geneology of John Mayall's Blues Breakers. You might be shocked at who all was in that band at one time or another.

For that reason, I'd not give a second thought to attending that concert if there was any way at all for me to get there!