Randy's 1978 album and songwriting

[sodascouts]

Does anyone else find it odd that on Randy's first solo album, released a year after he left the Eagles, there were no new songs even co-written by Randy? Indeed, the only song on the album which bears his name as a co-writer is "Take It to the Limit," a re-recording of the Eagles track which at that point was three years old.

What was up with that? Randy had already demonstrated his songwriting prowess as a member of the Eagles. Look at "Certain Kind of Fool" and "Try and Love Again." He had the chops. What was going on that he didn't even have one new original Meisner song on his own debut solo album?

I've also thought it was interesting that the first track off of Randy's solo album was actually a Frey/Souther composition! For those unfamiliar with it, the song is called "Bad Man." I guess feelings mustn't have been too hard for that to be featured as the first song off of his first album. However, it is odd.

For those who would like to listen to the song:
http://www.randymeisneronline.com/multimedia/MP3/BadMan.mp3

Anyone have some speculation as to why this happened?

[bernie's bender]

Does anyone else find it odd that on Randy's first solo album, released a year after he left the Eagles, there were no new songs even co-written by Randy? Indeed, the only song on the album which bears his name as a co-writer is "Take It to the Limit," a re-recording of the Eagles track which at that point was three years old.

What was up with that? Randy had already demonstrated his songwriting prowess as a member of the Eagles. Look at "Certain Kind of Fool" and "Try and Love Again." He had the chops. What was going on that he didn't even have one new original Meisner song on his own debut solo album?

I've also thought it was interesting that the first track off of Randy's solo album was actually a Frey/Souther composition! For those unfamiliar with it, the song is called "Bad Man." I guess feelings mustn't have been too hard for that to be featured as the first song off of his first album. However, it is odd.

For those who would like to listen to the song:
http://www.randymeisneronline.com/multimedia/MP3/BadMan.mp3

Anyone have some speculation as to why this happened?

Randy was never a prolific writer and never connected with someone or a group of someones to write with....

The touring and family trauma he had (and he is not a hugely ambitious person like Frey or Henley and not high energy like Joe...)

I think the record company probably wanted to get some product out while his name was hot and work with him to develop some tunes... they'd (record company) had already had the souther hillman and furay disaster and they'd fail again with the DFK band (Dudek Finnegan Krieger)... 'making a supergroup' is just not a shake and bake activity....

I remember getting the Meisner record and thinking that it seemed hurried and haphazard.... and I think it was... I still liked some of the songs...

Most artists when they are considering leaving a band start stockpiling songs.. I don't think Randy was ever that calculating... and most of his really great songs all needed polishing by harder working, maybe more talented songsmiths (like Frey finishing Take it Easy or Take it to the Limit or James Taylor finishing Her Town Too)

If consumers only knew how 'last minute' most products are... they'd be both amazed and appalled....

[whitcap]

In the booklet for the Live in Dallas CD Randy talks a little about his post-eagles career. Here's what he said about his first album:


When I did the first "Randy Meisner" album after leaving the Eagles on the completion of the Hotel California tour, what I really needed was a rest... However Electra Records had a "leaving members" clause and I had to record an album for them before I was able to do what I wanted.
I recorded the first solo album titled "Randy Meisner", which I didn't really feel was conceptualized to it's best at that time. I could have taken a bit more time and there was alot of confusion over leaving the Eagles still going on.

[sodascouts]

My version of Live in Dallas doesn't have a booklet. :( Thanks for the info, wc.

It sounds like the "rush job" theory is correct, although as bender points out, Randy never really did put out a lot of material song-writing wise. The exception is One More Song, where he collaborates a great deal with Kaz and Waldman. After that, it's once again mostly songs penned by others on his later self-titled album and on the Poco and Meisner/Swan/Rich projects - songs written or co-written by him do pop up every now and then, but they're in the minority (and there's none at all on the Poco Legacy album, nor on the Black Tie work).

Ironically, One More Song is his best album, IMHO.

[bernie's bender]

Ahh yes! Eric!

Eric Kaz and Tommy Snow could write a song in 10 minutes and it would be a pretty good song... and Wendy is pretty prolific too....

It is always interesting (well most of the time) to hear how these songwriting sessions happen... Sometimes the artists know or approach each other and other times they are 'put together'...

just kind of knowing those personalities... it sounds like it probably wasn't the three of them at once, but pairs... Eric is a classic professional songwriter (and very very talented) but almost chameleonic enough that he didn't fit a niche...

my memory of that record is that it was good, but good like a lot of records from that period with those production values, those songwriters etc... but, Meis got kind of 'generic'd' up instead of putting a stake in the ground as to his style... my sense is that he is a GREAT (maybe the greatest) high harmony singers... he is a really solid bass player... and he is a great catalyst in a band who does an amazing job singing in his niche (a few times a night.)

I used to work with a guy just like him (and high strung too)... he was always kind of unsettled and unhappy... he told me he wanted to sing 50/50 leads and well, it just wasn't gonna happen... our lead singer is the lead for a reason... he quit.

The stuff Randy did on Rudy the 5th with Ricky Nelson, his stuff with Poco and then with the Eagles... I think that is who he is.. he is a band guy...

The idea of putting him with Rick Roberts was failed just because neither had the stage presence nor the fire to succeed that they would need... people underestimate how much people have to want to do the BIDNESS side in order to really make it... I think, in the end, Randy is a band guy and needs to be part of a unit... Joe Walsh has always said that having to be the star of the show is just too damn much work and that is why he wanted to be a 'flavoring' instead of the main course... and it worked well for him...

The other thing that contributed to less than well received solo records have to do with the times in which they were released: 1) The LA music scene had become formulaic (cocaine played a HUGE role in this) 2) the punk/new wave era was starting to have an impact on listeners ears and 'perfect' recordings sounded dull 3) Great songs are really not manufactured... they come from the passion and heart... the types of songs that were on RM's solo records were uninspired and were mostly about 'someone else' and not Randy's soul... But, I also think that substantively, Randy is a less megalomaniacal and less self concerned personality.. so, he is not driven to write about those things... the end result... well, we have it...

I'd love to have him in any band anytime though... even if he complained the whole time!

[sodascouts]

The idea of putting him with Rick Roberts was failed just because neither had the stage presence nor the fire to succeed that they would need

I agree there. Frankly, I didn't even think their voices blended all that well together.

You can watch them doing Take It to Limit here (http://www.randymeisneronline.com/multimedia/live/robertsmeisnerbandtittl.wmv) to see what I mean - Randy pretty much carries it with most of the harmonies being handled by the keyboard player. When Roberts chimes in, it doesn't add much.

Then, there's this, from that same show - it's especially evident at the end that their voices don't really flow around each other smoothly, IMHO. Who knows, your ear may tell you something different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TCSV-Tp-mA

I guess they could have just been having an off night, though.

[bernie's bender]

I do love Rick Roberts! Anyone who can write a song like "Colorado" is an all star in my book. But, no where near the 'star power' of Frey or Henley....

I think that is Davey Muse on the flute (god how I hate flute!)

The problem with that song in this version: 1) Ralph Emery is a huge dick... I've never met someone who was more of a horse's ass... he HATED anything from California (Haggard, Buck, Country Rock) and treated people like crap..

2) the guitar player is about 1% as cool as Jock Bartley

3) Mark Andes (the firefall bass player) and Larry Burnett and Jock had their own sound... Randy is trying to glom the Eagles style onto that song and it isn't working...

4) Randy looks embarrassed to be there... and probably was....

That was such a brutal period for guys who sang songs where you could pay attention to the words and the playing... there was NO radio play for them.. you either had to play synth driven music (dressing like the guitar player) or you had to play pretty bad country...

I think that is before Dwight Yoakum and the new traditionalists hit.. so, it was Janie Fricke or Men without hats... or Huey Lewis... just brutal....

The music just seemed timid and self conscious...

sorry for the blast at that era... If I have the time right... we would actually have people come up to the bandstand and request "Maniac"...

I think Rick and Randy were pretty stuck and, in general, they did not blend... I'm thinking it was a booking decision to join up... get a decent band, Rick plays and sings his hits, Randy his and you can half fill a hall and who knows, maybe they blend well...

I've heard worse... but, it must have been pretty soul crushing for those guys.... in the meantime the drummer and guitar player now list on their resume that they played with the eagles and firefall.... you would not believe how many people tell you that kind of stuff when you play with them...

it is annoying.

[MikeA]

Great songs are really not manufactured... they come from the passion and heart... the types of songs

That's what I miss so much and find so seldom!

[sodascouts]

I believe this show was done in the late 80s, judging from Randy's look. I don't know how hard he was trying at that point to get new music out. It might have become simply a matter of keeping the coffers filled any way he could. I think Take It to the Limit is one of the best rock songs ever written and never tire of hearing it, but obviously they weren't taking this opportunity to introduce anything new. Perhaps they never intended to do anything more than tour together as a pair, with no plans to record.

I guess you could argue that they just assumed no one would be interested in anything more, but Poco's Legacy did pretty well a year or so later and that featured Randy's voice almost as prominently as the Eagles did. "Nothing to Hide," on which he sang lead, made the Top 40 if I recall correctly.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I pretty much agree with what everyone has said here. I actually made a similar remark in one of Bernie's thread a few minutes ago. I think Bernie and Randy both appear to be 'band' guys.

I do want to say something about Ralph Emery though. As many of you know, I had a late uncle that was a pretty successful fiddle player in Nashville. He played with Porter Wagoner's and Dolly Parton for many years, and was a friend of Ralph's. I had the opportunity to meet Ralph a couple of times. He seemed to be a really nice guy. From what I understand, he is a kind and giving person, and lent a helping hand to a lot of up and coming musicians throughout his career. It is true that he was 'old school' and did not care for the 'hippies' back in the day. He was a country music purist and was very vocal about not wanting any rock influence invading its traditional roots. He made it no secret that he didn't think there was any place in country music for those long-haired, dope-smoking, liberal hippies. Obviously, as time passed, he softened his views.

[bernie's bender]

I pretty much agree with what everyone has said here. I actually made a similar remark in one of Bernie's thread a few minutes ago. I think Bernie and Randy both appear to be 'band' guys.

I do want to say something about Ralph Emery though. As many of you know, I had a late uncle that was a pretty successful fiddle player in Nashville. He played with Porter Wagoner's and Dolly Parton for many years, and was a friend of Ralph's. I had the opportunity to meet Ralph a couple of times. He seemed to be a really nice guy. From what I understand, he is a kind and giving person, and lent a helping hand to a lot of up and coming musicians throughout his career. It is true that he was 'old school' and did not care for the 'hippies' back in the day. He was a country music purist and was very vocal about not wanting any rock influence invading its traditional roots. He made it no secret that he didn't think there was any place in country music for those long-haired, dope-smoking, liberal hippies. Obviously, as time passed, he softened his views.

Yeah, if you fit Ralph's vision of what was okay, he treated you like a human... if you didn't, not so much.

As for your broad characterization of folks with long hair, I guess it would include Charlie Daniels who is anything but a liberal.... oh wait, he WAS when it was fashionable, but not so much when he got older and it wasn't marketable in his new market which was Nashville.

Strom Thurmond supported segregation and was a Klan member... he 'softened' his views when he either saw the light or when he needed to (like George Wallace) to get elected.... I will say that while I forgave Strom's earlier stance, I didn't 'forget' that he victimized a lot of people needlessly through his actions. (I am using Thurmond as an example of someone who was 'a really nice guy' to people he liked and cruel and nasty to those who didn't fit.)

Ralph screwed a lot of people and helped some people who fit his view (and he was a VERY powerful DJ at WSM)... to me, he abused his power and was one of the folks responsible (along with Chet Atkins) for derailing country music and for adding cheesy string and horn arrangements and schmaltzing it up...

Ralph tried very hard to destroy the california/bakersfield sound and early on was awful to Haggard, Buck Owens etc... so... I"m glad he was nice to your uncle or whatever... but, Ralph's legacy is that he only adjusted when he had to... never a leader, always a follower...

[sodascouts]

When it comes to making personal judgments about Ralph Emery, it is important to note that Dreamer's uncle actually knew the guy....

I agree that it wasn't nice of Ralph to hurt the feelings of some rock stars eager to capitalize on the country market, or be rude to the country musicians he didn't care for because they wore their hair too long or whatever.... but that's how a lot of older folks are. It doesn't make them horrible people, nor does it define them and render anything good they do meaningless. Plus, he would not be the first man to use sharp, insulting words to criticize those he didn't agree with or like, would he now?

Indisputably, he gave Meisner/Roberts some exposure at a time when they were hardly on the A-list.

One can argue he was not sincere in his praise of them, but unless one can read minds, that's just speculation which can be easily colored by preconceived notions.

[bernie's bender]

When it comes to making personal judgments about Ralph Emery, it is important to note that Dreamer's uncle actually knew the guy....

I agree that it wasn't nice of Ralph to hurt the feelings of some rock stars eager to capitalize on the country market, or be rude to the country musicians he didn't care for because they wore their hair too long or whatever.... but that's how a lot of older folks are. It doesn't make them horrible people, nor does it define them and render anything good they do meaningless. Plus, he would not be the first man to use sharp, insulting words to criticize those he didn't agree with or like, would he now?

Indisputably, he gave Meisner/Roberts some exposure at a time when they were hardly on the A-list.

One can argue he was not sincere in his praise of them, but unless one can read minds, that's just speculation which can be easily colored by preconceived notions.

Oh, the accounts of Ralph I got from friends who 'KNEW' him too and got the full force of his treatment... so, it isn't legend.. it is the guy.

at the point that they were on Ralph's show on TNN, he needed the booking as badly as they did, so he was doing them a favor.

If the words I use are critical... so be it. The historical record is the record... what I wrote is pretty commonly known about Ralph Emery... that doesn't mean that I dismiss him, just that just because he 'softened' doesn't mean that he did it because his heart changed... if he had continued his pocketbook would have been impacted...

Hey, you guys love Ralph and think he is a great guy and I have been told by friends (and I actually watched his show for years, don't know if you ever really watched ol'Ralph and shotgun red) and listened to him on the radio... so, over time and with accounts from musicians who dealt with him... I have a 'tempered' opinion of him....

[whitcap]

I've also thought it was interesting that the first track off of Randy's solo album was actually a Frey/Souther composition! For those unfamiliar with it, the song is called "Bad Man." I guess feelings mustn't have been too hard for that to be featured as the first song off of his first album. However, it is odd.

For those who would like to listen to the song:
http://www.randymeisneronline.com/multimedia/MP3/BadMan.mp3


I actually don't find it that odd that Randy recorded Bad Man for his first album. JD Souther sang background vocals on several of the songs on that album. I think that the song being featured first on the album is either coincidence or it could have to do with the song being on the FM soundtrack.

[sodascouts]

True. It makes sense that a song from FM would get the first slot.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Oh, the accounts of Ralph I got from friends who 'KNEW' him too and got the full force of his treatment... so, it isn't legend.. it is the guy.

Sorry bender - I guess I was confused about this. I got the impression from your earlier post that you knew Ralph. The only reason I responded to you in the first place was because you were painting a very different portrait of the man from everything I have ever read and heard about him.



If the words I use are critical... so be it. The historical record is the record... what I wrote is pretty commonly known about Ralph Emery... that doesn't mean that I dismiss him, just that just because he 'softened' doesn't mean that he did it because his heart changed... if he had continued his pocketbook would have been impacted...


Well, again what you say is "pretty commonly known" about the man is quite a contrast to what I've heard and read about him. As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I think it is human nature that most people want to help the folks that they like more than the ones they don't. I know for sure that there are lots of people in Nashville that hold Ralph in a very high regard, so I guess the jury is still out about what his legacy will be.


Hey, you guys love Ralph and think he is a great guy and I have been told by friends (and I actually watched his show for years, don't know if you ever really watched ol'Ralph and shotgun red) and listened to him on the radio... so, over time and with accounts from musicians who dealt with him... I have a 'tempered' opinion of him....

I don't love Ralph - I don't even know him. I have met him two or three times and been on the set of his show with my aunt and uncle, but I don't claim to know him. I only know what I have read, heard, and observed.

In your earlier post you said:


Ralph Emery is a huge dick... I've never met someone who was more of a horse's ass...

Thanks for not letting us know how you felt before you tempered your opinion of him. :wink: :)

And BTW ... Sorry - I didn't mean to take this thread so off topic.

[miket156]

I think everyone is being to tough on Randy. I don't know that he was trying to do the Eagles style and it just wasn't working as much as its a tough song to sing. Ever try it? You have to pick the songs you sing the best and let the other ones slide. I heard Poco live back in the old days when Randy was in the group, and they were great.


Cheers,


Mike T.