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WalshFan88
12-05-2011, 10:21 PM
I've never been able to tire of something I love or anything for that matter. The overplaying/burnt out/tired of/etc thing never affected me. In fact hearing those songs all the time over and over just makes me want to listen to them more. I know I'm weird! :D As I've said before in other threads - I listen to HC (the song) about every day and the whole album once a month. Normally after a couple days of that people wouldn't want to hear it ever again. I've been doing this for a couple of years. And I'm not close to being tired of it. It's a timeless classic record. A true rock masterpiece. I feel emotional connection to not only the title track (which everyone already knows) but some of the others too like NKIT. I really cannot tire of this album. It means so much to me and is my favorite. But putting my connection/bias aside, I do think musically it is superior to any other Eagles album.

But I've never been able to tire of any overplayed song. Free Bird, Sweet Home Alabama, All Right Now, etc. Bring it on I say! Can't get enough of those radio hits. :D

TimothyBFan
12-06-2011, 09:25 AM
I've never been able to tire of something I love or anything for that matter. The overplaying/burnt out/tired of/etc thing never affected me. In fact hearing those songs all the time over and over just makes me want to listen to them more.

But I've never been able to tire of any overplayed song. Free Bird, Sweet Home Alabama, All Right Now, etc. Bring it on I say! Can't get enough of those radio hits. :D

You're killing me!!!! Ugh!!! It drives me crazy!! With so much good music in rock n roll, even if I like a song, I do NOT want to hear it over and over and over and over and over....... Hotel California has gotten to the point where I turn the radio station when it plays, as I do with Stairway To Heaven and a few others from my favorite bands. That's not to say that I don't go through stages where I will listen frequently to a song or album but it's a temporary thing and then I move on.

Congratulations to Hotel California! A great album and well deserving!! It didn't become an icon in Rock n Roll for no reason!!! :thumbsup:

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 02:40 PM
You're killing me!!!! Ugh!!! It drives me crazy!! With so much good music in rock n roll, even if I like a song, I do NOT want to hear it over and over and over and over and over....... Hotel California has gotten to the point where I turn the radio station when it plays, as I do with Stairway To Heaven and a few others from my favorite bands. That's not to say that I don't go through stages where I will listen frequently to a song or album but it's a temporary thing and then I move on.

Congratulations to Hotel California! A great album and well deserving!! It didn't become an icon in Rock n Roll for no reason!!! :thumbsup:

Yeah there is a lot of good music in Rock, I agree, but none comes close to Hotel California (the song or the album, the song in this case). It truly is the best rock n' roll song out there. I will never burn out on it and I can't even stomach the thought of changing the station on a song that means so much to me. It has become the song that I feel is my life's theme song and the album is certainly the soundtrack of my life. But I cannot tire of something I love so much. Hotel California is one of those timeless masterpieces that never gets old and I can't get enough of. The solos on the end are amazing too and I love listening to Walsh and Felder duke it out. My favorite version is the recorded version but I also like the version on Eagles Live. I don't particularly care for the acoustic version on HFO though. It's too tame for me and I miss the electric solos. I want the original masterpiece.

sodascouts
12-06-2011, 06:19 PM
I do think it's interesting that many hardcores don't list Hotel California as their favorite Eagles album. Perhaps it's because we focus on more than just the hits and popular sentiment.

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 08:24 PM
However, I do think it's interesting that many hardcores don't list Hotel California as their favorite Eagles album. Perhaps it's because we focus on more than just the hits and popular sentiment.

Ouch!

No really, I would definitely consider myself an Eagles hardcore fan and definitely an expert in the HC era Eagles in particular and HC is definitely my favorite. I think it has great song after great song, the fact they are hits aside. I also think sentiment means a lot to people and it certainly does to me. If it meant something to you or it was your favorite, you'd put it first on your list regardless of the quality or ranking of musicality. I find that HC is not only a musical masterpiece as I have said but the highest quality Eagles album not just in guitar parts (which I obviously am attracted to being a musician myself) but in lyrics and songwriting and overall composition. They just sound like great songs. There isn't a bad song on the album. Can't say the same for some of the others.

My whole thing on hits is that if a CLASSIC ROCK song is a hit, then it has to be a great song. There are no bad songs that are radio or otherwise hits. If a song is popular or a hit, it must be a good song musically. And if a song is high in the charts, it has to be that it is a great musical song and has great lyrics/musical parts/etc. Now obviously with modern music that is no longer true but for the GENRE of music we are talking about, it is true IMO.

I am admittedly attracted to hit songs. Deep Tracks/Obscure Songs don't do much for me I'm afraid. There is a reason they are deep tracks and not hits IMO! :hilarious: There are very few obscure songs that are truly great IME. When I listen to music, I want to hear Hotel California, Sweet Home Alabama, Walk This Way, You Shook Me All Night Long, etc. NOT Doolin-Dalton, All I Can Do Is Write About It, F.I.N.E, Bad Boy Boogie, etc.

Topkat
12-06-2011, 08:33 PM
Quote, Walshfan88

My whole thing on hits is that if a song is a hit, then it has to be a great song. There are no bad songs that are radio or otherwise hits. If a song is popular or a hit, it must be a good song musically. And if a song is high in the charts, it has to be that it is a great musical song and has great lyrics/musical parts/etc.


I totally disagree with this statement. Are you serious? You've never heard a really crap song that was a hit on the radio??? I can name at least 20, right off the top of my head

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 09:11 PM
Quote, Walshfan88


I totally disagree with this statement. Are you serious? You've never heard a really crap song that was a hit on the radio??? I can name at least 20, right off the top of my head

Not from the 70s classic rock, no. All of the classic rock hits were amazing songs. Currently yes definitely but it is of my opinion that all modern current music pretty much sucks. :rofl: I'm a strictly 60s/70s/80s guy. So when I talk about hits - I'm talking 70s stuff. All of the 70s hits were great amazing tunes. All Right Now, Free Bird, Hotel California, Free Ride, Walk This Way, I could go on and on. I NEVER change the channel on a classic rock radio station. It is of my opinion that all Classic Rock from the 70s is amazing/perfect and that there are no bad Classic Rock songs. That is all I listen to - Classic Rock from 70s/80s and some 60s. I'm a purist in that regard. I want to hear the hits of the 70s and some 80s. That's my kind of music. New music since 1989 turns me off. I don't even bother listening to new music because whenever I do it makes me want to vomit profusely. :rofl: So yes all new songs on the radio do and can definitely suck. But not Classic Rock 70s hits. I love all of them. It's all I listen to. I'm picky. :D

Topkat
12-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Walshfan88, I still have to disagree with you, there were plenty of crummy hit songs in the 70's. One that comes to mind is a song that a guy who sat behind me in school & kept singing in my ear "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" I still hate that song!!

Oh, & what about all that Disco Crap, that was the 70's also. You are only listening to a Classic rock station, but the 70's had loads of bad music that were big radio hits.

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 09:28 PM
Walshfan88, I still have to disagree with you, there were plenty of crummy hit songs in the 70's. One that comes to mind is a song that a guy who sat behind me in school & kept singing in my ear "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" I still hate that song!!

Oh, & what about all that Disco Crap, that was the 70's also. You are only listening to a Classic rock station, but the 70's had loads of bad music that were big radio hits.

70s Disco isn't Classic Rock though! :D I'm talking about 70's Classic Rock. There might be others outside of the genre but as far as 70s rock ("Classic Rock") there are no bad songs and I love all of the 70s classic rock hits/songs.

Topkat
12-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Quote Walshfan88

My whole thing on hits is that if a song is a hit, then it has to be a great song. There are no bad songs that are radio or otherwise hits. If a song is popular or a hit, it must be a good song musically. And if a song is high in the charts, it has to be that it is a great musical song and has great lyrics/musical parts/etc.


This is your statement. I'm not going to argue this anymore, but what you said here, is not really what you are saying now! I was commenting on this quote. Peace out, baby............

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Quote Walshfan88


This is your statement. I'm not going to argue this anymore, but what you said here, is not really what you are saying now! I was commenting on this quote. Peace out, baby............

Let me finish with this statement. I mainly was referring to the genre of the music - which is Classic Rock. I was mainly referring to that era/genre. That said, to avoid any confusion for you or anyone else I will edit my original post to reflect that.

That said, if a song becomes a hit - it has to be LIKED generally. A song doesn't sell if it's truly crappy. Someone out there likes it. Just like my thoughts on Desperado. I don't think it's that great, but obviously others out there like it as it has sold lots of copies and the two main songs are on the radio. But a hit doesn't become a hit by being a bad song. It is generally requested enough or high in the charts of sales to get it played most of the time. Just because one of us thinks it's crappy doesn't mean others don't like it. Ranking the songs musically, most hits from this era we speak of are good musical songs. Rather you like them or not is another thing and is completely subjective.

Peace out. :thumbsup:

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 09:56 PM
You know I thought about doing this earlier in the game if Desperado won that I was going to make a video summing up all of my thoughts and anytime someone hadn't heard my thoughts on Desperado, Country Music, Hit Songs, Hotel California, Joe Walsh vs Bernie Leadon, Early Eagles vs Later Eagles, Thoughts on Modern Music, Not burning out on songs, etc I can just link them to my video where I give a 10 minute talk about my feelings along with some factual information on music and why I like and don't like the things I do and why I believe what I do.

I think I'm going to do that now and I'll post it here when I'm done. Should be a fun one to watch as I'm sure some of the things I will say most will disagree on but I'm going to put it all on the table. That way from now on instead of typing it all out every time to explain why I think the way I do, I'll just link to this private Photobucket video. Makes it easier for writer's cramp! :hilarious:

ETA: It's uploading to my private YouTube section right now. It was too long for Photobucket. It's a doozy and very much strong in my beliefs but it is very clean. Just very strong thoughts and a very thought provoking rant of mine along with some explanations and just some basic overviews. I also threw in some guitar intro's for those out there that enjoy them. :D

WalshFan88
12-06-2011, 11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs2X6MoXJTw

That is my video explaining and talking about everything I talked about in my above post.

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 12:17 AM
I'm sorry Walshfan but I have to disagree with some of the stuff you said. Especially about Desperado, Joe Walsh vs Bernie Leadon, Deep Tracks, Modern Music, and Nirvana.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 12:22 AM
I'm sorry Walshfan but I have to disagree with some of the stuff you said. Especially about Desperado, Joe Walsh vs Bernie Leadon, Deep Tracks, Modern Music, and Nirvana.

To each his own - as I said in the video. I am just taking my musical background and experience as a musician and also what I prefer and also what I am close to and mixing those together in what I say.

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 10:16 AM
I am admittedly attracted to hit songs. Deep Tracks/Obscure Songs don't do much for me I'm afraid. There is a reason they are deep tracks and not hits IMO! :hilarious: There are very few obscure songs that are truly great IME. When I listen to music, I want to hear Hotel California, Sweet Home Alabama, Walk This Way, You Shook Me All Night Long, etc. NOT Doolin-Dalton, All I Can Do Is Write About It, F.I.N.E, Bad Boy Boogie, etc.

Before I start--remember I'm a huge fan of the "rock" stuff also and feel the same about Desperado as you do. And moderators, please move this whole post if you need to to another thread.

This statement really bothers me!! I know we've done this before but seriously, how can you say that? There is so much good stuff on albums by so many classic rock bands that have never made it onto a radio or became a hit. I just feel that if you are limiting your listening pleasure to nothing more than hits, you are missing out on a majority of the good stuff. Again, just like you, this is my opinion, but I am older and, therefore, wiser than you. :hilarious:
Are you seriously telling me that Aerosmith, for example, has no other good music out there other than the hits that get radio play like Walk This Way and their other hits? How about Walkin' The Dog, Seasons Of Wither, Hangman's Jury? These were never "hits" but are some of the better stuff off the top of my head. I could go on and on about your favorite bands and give you example of d*mn good music of their's that were not hits for every one of those bands. Seriously?


Not from the 70s classic rock, no. All of the classic rock hits were amazing songs. Currently yes definitely but it is of my opinion that all modern current music pretty much sucks. :rofl: I'm a strictly 60s/70s/80s guy. So when I talk about hits - I'm talking 70s stuff. All of the 70s hits were great amazing tunes. All Right Now, Free Bird, Hotel California, Free Ride, Walk This Way, I could go on and on. I NEVER change the channel on a classic rock radio station. It is of my opinion that all Classic Rock from the 70s is amazing/perfect and that there are no bad Classic Rock songs. That is all I listen to - Classic Rock from 70s/80s and some 60s. I'm a purist in that regard. I want to hear the hits of the 70s and some 80s. That's my kind of music. New music since 1989 turns me off. I don't even bother listening to new music because whenever I do it makes me want to vomit profusely. :rofl: So yes all new songs on the radio do and can definitely suck. But not Classic Rock 70s hits. I love all of them. It's all I listen to. I'm picky. :grin:

OMG---You want to make me pull my hair out in frustration!!! :brickwall:I love ya, baby, but I want to educate you a bit!!:hilarious: First and foremost, I quote you again, "All of the classic rock hits were amazing songs" ---NOT!!!! And again, this is all a matter of opinion, we both agree, but off the top of my head, bad hits..... Paradise By The Dashboard Light, Glory Days, Do You Think I'm Sexy (really?), We Built This City, Born In The USA----KILL ME NOW!!!!! UGH!!!!

As for the statement, "I don't even bother listening to new music because whenever I do it makes me want to vomit profusely"---This also saddens me. There are some really good newer bands out there that given a chance, I think you'd probably like. And again, I'm not talking about the hits. Charts should mean nothing and have no baring on what you might like to listen to. Nickelback, Incubus, Foo Fighters, Lifehouse, Everlast... to name a few!!




That said, if a song becomes a hit - it has to be LIKED generally. A song doesn't sell if it's truly crappy. Someone out there likes it. Just like my thoughts on Desperado. I don't think it's that great, but obviously others out there like it as it has sold lots of copies and the two main songs are on the radio. But a hit doesn't become a hit by being a bad song. It is generally requested enough or high in the charts of sales to get it played most of the time. Just because one of us thinks it's crappy doesn't mean others don't like it. Ranking the songs musically, most hits from this era we speak of are good musical songs. Rather you like them or not is another thing and is completely subjective.

I beg to differ with you once again. Here's an example. I, as did about a gazillion other hormone raging pre-teen girls in the 70s, bought a few albums by "hit" artist like Shaun Cassidy, Andy Gibb, Leif Garrett, etc....... I'm here to tell you, I didn't buy them because of the quality of music, that's for sure!!! Honey, I helped put them on the charts for no other reason than I thought those boys were the sexiest things I had ever seen!! They couldn't sing, but who cared? They sure looked good on an album cover and lip syncing on American Bandstand. :hilarious: They hit the top of the charts thanks to us!!

As we all seem to keep saying and agree---it's all "completely subjective", so I'm sure this isn't going to change your mind, but I swear, if you only would listen to me, I'd open your eyes to a whole lot of different music you would enjoy!

sodascouts
12-07-2011, 10:50 AM
I agree with everything you said Willie except for some of your examples of bad classic rock - I love those Springsteen songs as well as We Built This City! However, your point about Leif Garrett et al sure hits home.

I get the feeling when Austin refers to "classic rock hits" he is referring to the songs that still get played on classic rock stations to this day, which is actually only a small percentage of what was on the charts back in the day. Because he likes what the classic rock radio plays, he assumes that there were never any bad classic rock hits. This reliance on radio also means he hasn't really explored the catalogs of most classic rock bands and is thus unfamiliar with any other quality music they have done. Am I right Austin?

Now, let's all enjoy a top 5 hit from 1976, a song which peaked at a higher chart position than "Life in the Fast Lane" would a few months later (LITFL never even made it into the Top 10):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBYV_7a0FQs

Brooke
12-07-2011, 10:51 AM
However, I do think it's interesting that many hardcores don't list Hotel California as their favorite Eagles album. Perhaps it's because we focus on more than just the hits and popular sentiment.

I think that's exactly right. I enjoy listening to most all the songs on an album. I don't just listen to the hits. I think a lot of people miss out on a lot of good music by just listening to the hits. No matter who the artist is.

Topkat
12-07-2011, 11:05 AM
WalshFan88, I still have to disagree with you about "Hit Songs" all being good songs due to requests & sales. Have you ever heard of "Payola"??Yeah, that's when record companies & mangers "PAY" to have their artists & songs on the radio. It's been going on since the 60's & still happens today.
These songs get so much radio play, they become "hits" because they are pretty much shoved down our throats, via radio & tv appearances.

I agree with TimothyBFan in that the 'teenybobber idol of the moment" is the one with the "hit" & the "huge sales', ( for example Justin Beiber is the "It Boy" of the moment for the 12 year old girls.

I was lucky enough to be exposed to great bands & concerts at a very young age, as I was seeing the Who, Clapton, Ten Years After & others at about age 13, so my musical taste developed from there, but most young kids fall into the "teen Idol" guy of the moment. It has a lot to do with looks, & less to do with real "Talent"....

The music business is like any other "business" about the MONEY

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 11:20 AM
I get the feeling when Austin refers to "classic rock hits" he is referring to the songs that still get played on classic rock stations to this day, which is actually only a small percentage of what was on the charts back in the day. Because he likes what the classic rock radio plays, he assumes that there were never any bad classic rock hits. This reliance on radio also means he hasn't really explored the catalogs of most classic rock bands and is thus unfamiliar with any other quality music they have done. Am I right Austin?

Now, let's all enjoy a top 5 hit from 1976, a song which enjoyed a higher chart position than "Life in the Fast Lane" would a few months later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBYV_7a0FQs

You are sooooo right about that. I swear radio stations get the same 100 songs over and over again!!!! In fact, in that article Koala just posted in Timothy in the Press thread, when he said he had been listening to a classic radio station when they played Night By Night by Steely Dan on it, I thought to myself, I wonder what radio station that was. It's rare to get something like that, at least where I am.

OMG---Muskrat Love----:hilarious:. Wasn't that a great hit?!?!? :doh:


I don't just listen to the hits. I think a lot of people miss out on a lot of good music by just listening to the hits. No matter who the artist is.

EXACTLY!!!! And you managed to say it in just a couple of sentences, unlike my previous post that took me an hour to compose and took up half a page. :hilarious:

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 11:28 AM
And check out what I found a minute ago when I was "researching" bad rock songs. Seems 3 of the songs I listed, this person agrees with. :hilarious: Darn, I'm good!!!!

http://trueslant.com/michelecatalano/2010/03/29/the-worst-best-classic-rock-songs-of-all-time/

Brooke
12-07-2011, 11:28 AM
Darn it Willie! Muskrat Love was such a fantastic song! I always loved it! :lie:

:hilarious:

sodascouts
12-07-2011, 11:45 AM
And check out what I found a minute ago when I was "researching" bad rock songs. Seems 3 of the songs I listed, this person agrees with. :hilarious: Darn, I'm good!!!!

http://trueslant.com/michelecatalano/2010/03/29/the-worst-best-classic-rock-songs-of-all-time/

Well I just looked over that list and I have to say I love most of those songs! I know most here will agree with me that at least one of them is far from sucky... ;)

On the other hand, how about this song which reached NUMBER ONE on Billboard in 1976:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irgJPqkuakM

Topkat
12-07-2011, 12:15 PM
Quote. TimothyBFan

And check out what I found a minute ago when I was "researching" bad rock songs. Seems 3 of the songs I listed, this person agrees with. Darn, I'm good!!!!

Who is this woman Michele Catalano? She doesn't know what the heck she is talking about. Most of those songs are great, but mostly just Overplayed, which is why people are just maybe sick of them.

There are plenty of songs that made #1 that are really bad, like some mentioned here, Muskrat Love, & that Disco Duck. I couldn't even open those videos to watch because I know how bad they are.....Like I said,"PAYOLA"

Many great artists & bands didn't make the charts because their management didn't know how to promote them. Poco, & Humble Pie are perfect examples of that. Those bands should have had the fame & the money, but never made it.

VAisForEagleLovers
12-07-2011, 01:38 PM
Oh my, TBF! Great find! I'm not sure I agree with ALL of Springsteen, but the rest I can agree with. Especially The Doors (ALL of their songs). I find that a lot of songs I loved loved loved back when they were popular are now on my list of songs I can go my entire life without ever hearing again. Overplayed? Maybe, but others have been overplayed and I still love them. When I stopped drinking cheap wine by the bottle, I stopped liking most of these songs!

I wouldn't put HC on my 'hate' list, but I do have to admit that when making a playlist, it goes on next to last (followed by Desperado) of all Eagles songs and then I get involved in other things and end up not getting that far. It wasn't a song I ever liked in my youth and I actually like it better now than back then.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 01:39 PM
I get the feeling when Austin refers to "classic rock hits" he is referring to the songs that still get played on classic rock stations to this day, which is actually only a small percentage of what was on the charts back in the day. Because he likes what the classic rock radio plays, he assumes that there were never any bad classic rock hits. This reliance on radio also means he hasn't really explored the catalogs of most classic rock bands and is thus unfamiliar with any other quality music they have done. Am I right Austin?

You got it half right. :hilarious:

I am mainly referring to current classic rock radio hits yes. But I have indeed explored almost all of the "Classic Rock"/AOR Rock out there album by album(Eagles, Stones, Beatles, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Guns N' Roses, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Foreigner, Boston, etc etc etc etc) to come to the conclusions I have. I don't only listen to radio, I do own lots of CD's and am a huge Classic Rock lover in general. It's just that the songs I like and want to hear happen to be the hits and the popular songs of the band(s) in question. :)

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 01:57 PM
Before I start--remember I'm a huge fan of the "rock" stuff also and feel the same about Desperado as you do. And moderators, please move this whole post if you need to to another thread.

This statement really bothers me!! I know we've done this before but seriously, how can you say that? There is so much good stuff on albums by so many classic rock bands that have never made it onto a radio or became a hit. I just feel that if you are limiting your listening pleasure to nothing more than hits, you are missing out on a majority of the good stuff. Again, just like you, this is my opinion, but I am older and, therefore, wiser than you. :hilarious:
Are you seriously telling me that Aerosmith, for example, has no other good music out there other than the hits that get radio play like Walk This Way and their other hits? How about Walkin' The Dog, Seasons Of Wither, Hangman's Jury? These were never "hits" but are some of the better stuff off the top of my head. I could go on and on about your favorite bands and give you example of d*mn good music of their's that were not hits for every one of those bands. Seriously?



OMG---You want to make me pull my hair out in frustration!!! :brickwall:I love ya, baby, but I want to educate you a bit!!:hilarious: First and foremost, I quote you again, "All of the classic rock hits were amazing songs" ---NOT!!!! And again, this is all a matter of opinion, we both agree, but off the top of my head, bad hits..... Paradise By The Dashboard Light, Glory Days, Do You Think I'm Sexy (really?), We Built This City, Born In The USA----KILL ME NOW!!!!! UGH!!!!

As for the statement, "I don't even bother listening to new music because whenever I do it makes me want to vomit profusely"---This also saddens me. There are some really good newer bands out there that given a chance, I think you'd probably like. And again, I'm not talking about the hits. Charts should mean nothing and have no baring on what you might like to listen to. Nickelback, Incubus, Foo Fighters, Lifehouse, Everlast... to name a few!!



I beg to differ with you once again. Here's an example. I, as did about a gazillion other hormone raging pre-teen girls in the 70s, bought a few albums by "hit" artist like Shaun Cassidy, Andy Gibb, Leif Garrett, etc....... I'm here to tell you, I didn't buy them because of the quality of music, that's for sure!!! Honey, I helped put them on the charts for no other reason than I thought those boys were the sexiest things I had ever seen!! They couldn't sing, but who cared? They sure looked good on an album cover and lip syncing on American Bandstand. :hilarious: They hit the top of the charts thanks to us!!

As we all seem to keep saying and agree---it's all "completely subjective", so I'm sure this isn't going to change your mind, but I swear, if you only would listen to me, I'd open your eyes to a whole lot of different music you would enjoy!

I'm just very picky on music. Most of it just isn't my stuff.

As far as obscure songs - I just never connected with 99 percent of them. I just don't feel a connection to them. I can think of some rare exceptions but most of the time the songs I dig and LOVE to death and want to hear all the time just so happen to be "radio hits". As far as Aerosmith goes - Walkin' The Dog is a good one but I'm not a big fan of the other two you mentioned. Again - I'm just very picky on what I like to listen to. I'm attracted to a mainstream classic rock 70s analog sound and that's what I want to hear and why I cannot stand modern music of today which I'll get to later. :D

As far as hits - I love most of those songs you mentioned. :hilarious: Except for the Rod Stewart song and We Built This City but the Meatloaf and Springsteen songs I love. :rofl: I guess "bad" is subjective because there is a lot of people out there that love it. Musically, from a music standpoint they are composed well but rather we will like it or think it sucks is another thing.

As far as modern music. I just cannot get into modern music. All of those bands you mentioned are my least favorite of modern music.... I just cannot stomach those bands at all or any of the others. And I DO actually try to listen to new bands as they come out but they do nothing for me. I also try to listen to individual artists and very few I can stomach. I do like a couple of them mainly for their guitar playing but not their songs. :hilarious:

There is a much different sound and creativity in the music now than there was in the 70s. The 70s/80s was the peak/highlight period of rock n' roll music. After Nirvana came on the scene it totally murdered good music (rock music) as we know it today. IMHO Guns N' Roses was the last good band on the Rock scene. They were cut from the same mold as the Stones, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Zeppelin, etc (the good stuff). They had the classic vibe. They are the newest band I like. But after GnR went down - rock music like I know and love ceased to exist. There has never been another band cut from the same mold that was an analog band with a classic rock sound or vibe that appealed to me.

I realize I'm picky but I'm picky about everything. If I told you about my eating habits and how I only eat about 5 different things, how I avoid all green foods, how I don't eat vegetables, or how I have to smell every new food before eating it to decide if I even want to try a bite and I also eat by looking at the food deciding which thing to eat next and I eat only one thing at a time before going to the next side on the plate rather than jumping back and forth, that'd be another topic and discussion. :hilarious:

I've always been a picky, narrow minded kind of person. I truly love very few things. But boy - when I do watch out because I'll support them to the death. :D Old habits die hard I guess! But music is VERY personal - can't stress that enough. And I just can't dig the new stuff and it just so happens the older stuff I do dig are radio hits and/or popular songs.

I'm willing to give a listen to anything you suggest - but I can't promise you I will like it or love it. But I am open to try to listen to new stuff. It's just that nothing attracts me and I can be hard to please.

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 02:09 PM
I've always been a picky, narrow minded kind of person.

Admitting it is half the battle!! :laugh:

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Admitting it is half the battle!! :laugh:

:rofl: I have no problem admitting it - I know I am! I'm picky about everything. For me everything has to be like Baby Bear's porridge. Not too hot, not too cold. It has to be juuuuust right! :hilarious:

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Walshfan what is so wrong with Nirvana? There are so many good bands now a days and singers. One that comes to mind is Ray LaMontagne. Some good bands to listen to are Youth Group, The Sounds, She & Him, Wilco, Wild Light, The Vines, The Strokes, The Kooks, Kasabian, blur, Gorillaz, Coldplay and Arcade Fire. All are great bands with great songs, but guess what some of them aren't played on the radio. Nirvana was a great band that gave way to new artists "in my humble opinion."

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Walshfan what is so wrong with Nirvana? There are so many good bands now a days and singers. One that comes to mind is Ray LaMontagne. Some good bands to listen to are Youth Group, The Sounds, She & Him, Wilco, Wild Light, The Vines, The Strokes, The Kooks, Kasabian, blur, Gorillaz, Coldplay and Arcade Fire. All are great bands with great songs, but guess what some of them aren't played on the radio. Nirvana was a great band that gave way to new artists "in my humble opinion."

Just not my kind of music, sorry. I like classic rock. I don't like hiphop, pop, country, rap, grunge, indie, modern rock, alternative rock, progressive rock, experimental, metal, etc etc etc. Nirvana killed off my kind of music. Therefore I dislike them greatly for it besides not liking their music. I cannot stand any of those bands - they are too far "out there" for me. I like Classic Rock music and rock music from the 70s and 80s and ever since Nirvana came on the scene all of that went way sadly. The new artists that came after Nirvana weren't my type NOR do they have the same creativity that the artists of earlier days had. Nirvana to me IMO is nothing more than angered teens screaming and making no sense and writing angry or just generally unhappy music. Smells Like Teen Spirit is a perfect example of a song I never want to hear again in my life.

I get my music tastes from my dad. He is all about Classic Rock and hates modern music like I do as well. My mom on the other hand loves modern rock and metal and alternative. My dad is from the classic rock time and he is the one where I get my great tastes in music from.

Simply put - I was born in the wrong generation. 70s/80s is my era and especially the 70s. Guns N' Roses was the last band to come out that I like. Ever since they stopped and Nirvana started - new old school Rock bands were never formed. It was all downhill from there and has got continually worse as time goes on. But Nirvana put an end to old school rock music and changed music forever - but not in a good way IMO. There is no denying they changed music but the change was unwelcome for me and not good.

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 04:44 PM
"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was about a movement same as The Beach Boys "Surfin USA" or even The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows". As for the creativity died after the 90s that's complete bullocks. Ray LaMontagne could've easily joined Crosby, Stills, and Nash. The Sounds could've joined the ranks of Blondie and The Clash. The Vines and Strokes would've been great bands to join the 60s and 70s. Anything that Damon Albarn does is genius. So for you to say the creativity died or whatever is just plain ol wrong.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 04:46 PM
"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was about a movement same as The Beach Boys "Surfin USA" or even The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows". As for the creativity died after the 90s that's complete bullocks. Ray LaMontagne could've easily joined Crosby, Stills, and Nash. The Sounds could've joined the ranks of Blondie and The Clash. The Vines and Strokes would've been great bands to join the 60s and 70s. Anything that Damon Albarn does is genius. So for you to say the creativity died or whatever is just plain ol wrong.

Well that's like, your opinion man! :hilarious: I'm not wrong, and you're not wrong. It's all subjective. Creativity is a matter of opinion and IMO those bands aren't creative nor do they have much to say nor are they my type of music to begin with. I do not care for any of that music you mentioned - it's not for me and IMO it can't hold a candle to the rock music of the 70s/80s.

I'd rather the hair bands would have stayed around longer than for alternative to have started. At least I can stomach them and even like some of them (Motley Crue, Ratt, etc).

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 04:52 PM
Personally, I don't care for Nirvana either but I'm also not understanding how you keep saying Nirvana "killed off" your kind of music. They expanded on the grunge that, even tho they try to claim as theirs, people like Neil Young started. It's just another form of music, that may not be for everyone. But I refuse to believe that one group can be responsible for ending another whole form of music. There's still plenty of rock today that will become classic rock 20 years from now. The word "classic" is used to describe the old rock. I will admit I don't believe that today's groups/sounds/songs/etc, will EVER measure up to the old stuff and some of it will not stand up to the test of time but doesn't mean a lot of it isn't worthy of listening to. Groups like Nickelback have been around for years and continue to put out top selling albums.

MODERATORS----This has gotten so far off topic and I claim partial responsibility for it. I don't know if we have another thread this would be better suited in but I would really, really like to continue on with this discussion and don't feel right doing it here. I apparently like :brickwall:. :hilarious:

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 04:59 PM
"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was about a movement same as The Beach Boys "Surfin USA"

Actually, Austin--that's not opinion, that is pretty much fact and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything, anywhere that says otherwise.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:00 PM
Personally, I don't care for Nirvana either but I'm also not understanding how you keep saying Nirvana "killed off" your kind of music. They expanded on the grunge that, even tho they try to claim as theirs, people like Neil Young started. It's just another form of music, that may not be for everyone. But I refuse to believe that one group can be responsible for ending another whole form of music. There's still plenty of rock today that will become classic rock 20 years from now. The word "classic" is used to describe the old rock. I will admit I don't believe that today's groups/sounds/songs/etc, will EVER measure up to the old stuff and some of it will not stand up to the test of time but doesn't mean a lot of it isn't worthy of listening to. Groups like Nickelback have been around for years and continue to put out top selling albums.

MODERATORS----This has gotten so far off topic and I claim partial responsibility for it. I don't know if we have another thread this would be better suited in but I would really, really like to continue on with this discussion and don't feel right doing it here. I apparently like :brickwall:. :hilarious:

Mainly because Nirvana changed the music scene and people lost interest in what I call 70s/80s blues based rock and hard rock and now were all into alternative which IMO isn't as good. Therefore because there was no interest no more old style rock groups (in the same vain as Stones, Aerosmith, etc) were made. Nirvana changed the music scene and not in a good way. That and I've never cared for Kurt Cobain but that's beside the point.

When I say Classic Rock I do mean old school rock in the style of Stones, Zeppelin, AC/DC, Aerosmith, GnR. Those types of blues based rock and hard rock from the 70s and 80s.

At least we agree that the new stuff will never hold up to the old stuff. That's for darn sure. But Nickelback? :hilarious: Really? Yes a lot of people like them but they are barf-worthy to me.

And yes lastly I would like to continue the discussion in a better place. Perhaps the Share The Music You Love thread would be better. Shall we move it there?

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:02 PM
Actually, Austin--that's not opinion, that is pretty much fact and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything, anywhere that says otherwise.

I highlighted the opinion part in bold. He said I was wrong for saying those bands don't have creativity. And I said it was his opinion that I was wrong because it's all subjective and that I wasn't wrong.

Ive always been a dreamer
12-07-2011, 05:16 PM
Hey everyone - I agree that this could be a thread of it's own. Don't have time to break it out right now, but we'll take care of it later. For now, I say feel free to continue your discussion here. Don't want to lose any momentum. :wink:

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 05:21 PM
There are still bands that are hard rock/blues based. The early Kings of Leon stuff for example. The Black Keys play very blues based hard rock. Even the bands of the 70s/80s weren't creative. They did what the bands of the 60s did, take music that came before them and add their own touch to it. That's what the Beatles did with R&B.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:24 PM
There are still bands that are hard rock/blues based. The early Kings of Leon stuff for example. The Black Keys play very blues based hard rock. Even the bands of the 70s/80s weren't creative. They did what the bands of the 60s did, take music that came before them and add their own touch to it. That's what the Beatles did with R&B.

Kings of Leon is alright but the Black Keys use too much fuzz for my tastes. Leon was good though - I'll give you that. :hilarious:

You are right in the sense that the 70s guys took the earlier stuff and improved on it but in the songwriting is where I'm talking about creativity, not just in the type of music but in the composition, music part creation, and lyrics is where I find the 70s/80s to trump anything since then. It just fits in with my style better. As I said, I was born in the wrong generation.

TimothyBFan
12-07-2011, 05:27 PM
I can see I'm getting nowhere here and it's hopeless!! I refuse to continue on knocking my head against the wall. Personally, I feel that you seem to think your opinion is the only opinion that can be correct. And some of what you are now arguing against and calling people's opinions are not opinion, but fact. I'm all about everyone having opinions but I also think there's opinion and then there's just being contradictory.

I think you are a very nice, smart young man, especially when it comes to the music YOU love and I enjoy talking with you about music. I know I will never know as much as you do about guitars and such. I've learned a lot from you. That being said, and please do not take this the wrong way.... I seldom pull out the "age" card (why would I want to remind everyone how old I am--48 for the record) but seriously, Austin, many of us here LIVED through that music when it was all new. I loved it then and also loved the bubble gum, glam, some disco (yikes), rap (when it was new -Sugarhill gang, etc). I just think that makes me a little wiser about some of it. Without those groups, there wouldn't be any new music and I know for a fact that a lot of the new groups will give credit where it is due. I think it's a testament to those new groups when the "oldies" will get on a stage and perform with some of those group.... Led Zeppelin with the Foo Fighters and the Black Crows or ZZ Top with Nickelback, etc.... If those new groups are good enough for the like of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant and Billy Gibbons, they are good enough for me.

Topkat
12-07-2011, 05:32 PM
I don't agree, early to mid 70's music was nothing like 60's music. The 60's was the British invasion, pop rock, & the Motown sound. The 70's was very hard, blues rock. They didn't really re-do the 60's pop; it was totally different.
The 70's blues guitarist were innovators, putting this music front & center in places like Woodstock. Also what about the infamous "drum solos" of the early 70's. i don't think anyone can argue the impact of Santana's "Soul Sacrifice" with drummer Mike Shreave just about stealing the entire show. One of the most famous drum solos ever!

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:44 PM
I can see I'm getting nowhere here and it's hopeless!! I refuse to continue on knocking my head against the wall. Personally, I feel that you seem to think your opinion is the only opinion that can be correct. And some of what you are now arguing against and calling people's opinions are not opinion, but fact. I'm all about everyone having opinions but I also think there's opinion and then there's just being contradictory.

I think you are a very nice, smart young man, especially when it comes to the music YOU love and I enjoy talking with you about music. I know I will never know as much as you do about guitars and such. I've learned a lot from you. That being said, and please do not take this the wrong way.... I seldom pull out the "age" card (why would I want to remind everyone how old I am--48 for the record) but seriously, Austin, many of us here LIVED through that music when it was all new. I loved it then and also loved the bubble gum, glam, some disco (yikes), rap (when it was new -Sugarhill gang, etc). I just think that makes me a little wiser about some of it. Without those groups, there wouldn't be any new music and I know for a fact that a lot of the new groups will give credit where it is due. I think it's a testament to those new groups when the "oldies" will get on a stage and perform with some of those group.... Led Zeppelin with the Foo Fighters and the Black Crows or ZZ Top with Nickelback, etc.... If those new groups are good enough for the like of Jimmy Page, Robert Plant and Billy Gibbons, they are good enough for me.


It's not that at all. :rolleyes: It's just that I stand up for what I believe in. All opinions are valid but I'm not going to have someone tell me I'm wrong for what I believe in or try to shove unwanted stuff down my throat, either. I'm NOT wrong, period for saying these bands don't have the same creativity as the older ones. I ALSO agree Nirvana changed music, that's not what I'm calling an opinion. My comment to Shadowman was that he said I was wrong for saying those bands weren't creative when I CAN'T be wrong because it's all subjective therefore no one is wrong. There is no fact to that I'm afraid. ;) I'm all for debating except when ganged up on. I've also shared plenty of facts as well in this thread and in my video which I am quite proud of, FWIW. When it comes to music - I know my stuff plain and simple. I've been in multiple professional bands (3) and I've been a music lover for a very long time and therefore am certainly entitled to my beliefs through my extended experience both as a professional (paid) musician and as a music lover both. Some here (actually MOST here) only have one side of that. I see it from both angles - as I state in my video. You may have seen it start and been around longer, but I also am an experienced musician and can evaluate these songs in a way normal everyday people cannot and therefore have another side to just "do I like this song or not" in that I can microscopically categorize, evaluate, and criticize them as for what they are. I call it as I see it I'm afraid and I'm not afraid to do so. It walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... It's a friggin' duck fer christ sakes. :rofl:

That said, I'm done and spoke my peace unless anyone responds with something I feel I need to specifically address in which I will feel most free to do so. I highly recommend this part of the thread be created into it's own thread for reference sake, including my informative video but I likely won't be adding anything. I've shared my expertise and knowledge here as have you and others. I think it is what it is. I know what I like and I know what I have a right to say and believe in and I am right, AFAIC.

And with that, I bid you all adieu. :applause::wink::brickwall:

Freypower
12-07-2011, 05:46 PM
I sort of get where Austin is coming from with Nirvana. I think Nevermind is overrated. To me it's just another rock album; it is nothing special. But it WAS special to the millions who bought it & formed bands as a result, just as the Velvet Underground was influential, or so some critics insist (I have never to this day heard a Velvet Underground song).

I don't agree that all 'hits' are great simply because they are hits. Muskrat Love is a perfect example. Austin likes Guns'n'Roses. I don't (sorry). They had hits. They did precisely nothing for me. Some of my favourite artists had hits with inferior songs; Elton John's Nikita, for instance. I cannot listen to that. It was a big hit. Similarly there are far better songs in Glenn Frey's catalogue than The Heat Is On, in my opinion.

The Deep Tracks thing is where I really take issue. Austin, if you love Hotel California so much surely you love the 'deep tracks' on that like VOL, PMIAR etc? You even like Out Of Control, which is a deep track on Desperado, an album you dislike.

A few examples dear to my heart: There is more to Led Zeppelin IV than Stairway To Heaven. There is more to Band On The Run than the title track. There is more to the self-titled Dire Straits album than Sultans Of Swing and more to Brothers In Arms than Money For Nothing. There is more to Rumours than Go Your Own Way.....

The only more recent bands I ever found that I liked were REM and Oasis, and neither of them really lived up to their promise, but I still hope, even at 51, to find some other act that can still excite me. I just can't close off my whole mind to the possibility. It's very difficult, and it's hard to know where to start, but I'm sure I can do it. I hear a lot about Kings of Leon & Mumford & Sons who might fit into what I am looking for, and also Ryan Adams, a singer-songwriter.

And incidentally Austin, you apparently only listen to bands, not solo artists. Don't you even listen to Neil Young? I think even you would enjoy the rockier songs on Rust Never Sleeps & Ragged Glory. You are missing out on some of the great music, in my opinion. Don't worry - I am not suggesting you try Bob Dylan!

Edit: I have just read your last post. Other people have as much right to express their opinions as you do and other people may also believe they are just as 'right' as you are. When you say that only you can evaluate these songs in the way you can because of your musical knowledge, that is dangerously close to saying that non-musicians have no right at all to express any opinions on the music they love.

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 05:48 PM
Sorry but just because you play guitar and were in a few bands doesn't entitle you to anything. I also play guitar and have been in a few bands but that doesn't matter. You're no more special than anyone else here on The Border.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:51 PM
I sort of get where Austin is coming from with Nirvana. I think Nevermind is overrated. To me it's just another rock album; it is nothing special. But it WAS special to the millions who bought it & formed bands as a result, just as the Velvet Underground was influential, or so some critics insist (I have never to this day heard a Velvet Underground song).

I don't agree that all 'hits' are great simply because they are hits. Muskrat Love is a perfect example. Austin likes Guns'n'Roses. I don't (sorry). They had hits. They did precisely nothing for me. Some of my favourite artists had hits with inferior songs; Elton John's Nikita, for instance. I cannot listen to that. It was a big hit. Similarly there are far better songs in Glenn Frey's catalogue than The Heat Is On, in my opinion.

The Deep Tracks thing is where I really take issue. Austin, if you love Hotel California so much surely you love the 'deep tracks' on that like VOL, PMIAR etc? You even like Out Of Control, which is a deep track on Desperado, an album you dislike.

A few examples dear to my heart: There is more to Led Zeppelin IV than Stairway To Heaven. There is more to Band On The Run than the title track. There is more to the self-titled Dire Straits album than Sultans Of Swing and more to Brothers In Arms than Money For Nothing. There is more to Rumours than Go Your Own Way.....

The only more recent bands I ever found that I liked were REM and Oasis, and neither of them really lived up to their promise, but I still hope, even at 51, to find some other act that can still excite me. I just can't close off my whole mind to the possibility. It's very difficult, and it's hard to know where to start, but I'm sure I can do it. I hear a lot about Kings of Leon & Mumford & Sons who might fit into what I am looking for, and also Ryan Adams, a singer-songwriter.

And incidentally Austin, you apparently only listen to bands, not solo artists. Don't you even listen to Neil Young? I think even you would enjoy the rockier songs on Rust Never Sleeps & Ragged Glory. You are missing out on some of the great music, in my opinion. Don't worry - I am not suggesting you try Bob Dylan!

Edit: I have just read your last post. Other people have as much right to express their opinions as you do and other people may also believe they are just as 'right' as you are.

I do love some deep tracks by the Eagles. Victim Of Love from HC is one of my favorites. It's also possible what I define as deep tracks are different than other's definitions. I love Victim Of Love from HC and James Dean from OTB and such even from other bands. Mama Kin from Aerosmith as an example.

I also listen to solo artists, it's just that I failed to mention them. I love Don Henley's solo music especially but also Joe's. I also like James Taylor and some other ones as well. I like Neil Young's more rockier stuff (Rockin' In The Free World, Ohio, Cinnamon Girl, etc) but not the folkier stuff (Old Man, Heart Of Gold, Southern Man, etc)

Obviously they definitely do and as I said all opinions are valid - but I feel like I'm being told I'm wrong for liking what I like and disliking what I dislike. I have nothing against any of the other opinions and I think they are fine and they certainly are open to think what I want. Just don't try to shove your religion down my throat and I won't try to shove mine down yours. Easy peasy, right?!

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Sorry but just because you play guitar and were in a few bands doesn't entitle you to anything. I also play guitar and have been in a few bands but that doesn't matter. You're no more special than anyone else here on The Border.

I didn't say I was special, did I? :confused: No, I just said I had some musical experience to be able to dissect songs musically. :rolleyes:

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 05:59 PM
When you say that only you can evaluate these songs in the way you can because of your musical knowledge, that is dangerously close to saying that non-musicians have no right at all to express any opinions on the music they love.

Not at all I'm afraid. I'm just saying I see things in a different light than 99 percent of music lovers. All opinions are valid. I may not agree with them - but they are valid nonetheless. I said nothing about rights. I just said I had an extra component to my opinion that I share that may be foreign to others.

Freypower
12-07-2011, 06:04 PM
I
Obviously they definitely do and as I said all opinions are valid - but I feel like I'm being told I'm wrong for liking what I like and disliking what I dislike. I have nothing against any of the other opinions and I think they are fine and they certainly are open to think what I want. Just don't try to shove your religion down my throat and I won't try to shove mine down yours. Easy peasy, right?!

Nobody is a) telling you you are wrong; b) 'shoving their religion down your throat'. All they are doing is attempting to contribute to the discussion in the same way that you are.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 06:08 PM
Nobody is a) telling you you are wrong; b) 'shoving their religion down your throat'. All they are doing is attempting to contribute to the discussion in the same way that you are.

Read back a few pages. I can think of two posts off the top off my head that tell me I am wrong..... Not that I care or it will somehow effect my belief. :hilarious:

I'm not saying anything about me having more rights - not at all. I'm saying ANY MUSICIAN will have more abilities to understand and dissect the composition of MUSIC better than your average person. Me, Joe, or Moe. Musicians study music, that's what they do. They learn how they make music and therefore can reverse engineer it so to speak. Where as most people's opinions are 'I like this.....I don't like this.... This sucks.... This is the best thing ever....etc'. Where as mine or another musician's may be 'This is well composed. This has great songwriting and lyricism. This has a great time and beat to it. This has no creativity. This is very creative. This is out of tune.'.

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 06:11 PM
Not true at all. Anyone can call themselves a musician. Some kid who can play three simple chords is not a musician. So no, not everyone who can play music can understand it better than someone who doesn't. :fear: shocker aint it

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Not true at all. Anyone can call themselves a musician. Some kid who can play three simple chords is not a musician. So no, not everyone who can play music can understand it better than someone who doesn't. :fear: shocker aint it

While anyone can call themselves a musician - people with professional gigging experience or studio experience are experienced and knowledgeable. I'm not talking about kids - I'm talking about pros or people with real life experience.

Some people may be more inclined than others to dissect music, but for the most part for most people its a simple thing of "Like or don't like".

Topkat
12-07-2011, 06:17 PM
WalshFan88

Where as mine or another musician's may be 'This is well composed. This has great songwriting and lyricism. This has a great time and beat to it. This has no creativity. This is very creative. This is out of tune.'.
__________________

Just because someone isn't a musician, doesn't mean they can't identify with great songwriting, & lyricisim or creativity for that matter. It is all in the ear of the beholder.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 06:19 PM
WalshFan88


Just because someone isn't a musician, doesn't mean they can't identify with great songwriting, & lyricisim or creativity for that matter. It is all in the ear of the beholder.

True, but most people don't. Very few do. There are some here that do. But most people don't. Most people just either like or dislike something.

Freypower
12-07-2011, 06:30 PM
True, but most people don't. Very few do. There are some here that do. But most people don't. Most people just either like or dislike something.

Yes, and to use your word, what on earth is 'wrong' with that? Sorry, but I don't consider my knowledge of music useless because I cannot play an instrument.

Of course you have a point about the extra knowledge that musicians have. But you seem to be saying that only their knowledge and their opinions have any validity. By which you mean YOUR knowledge & opinions.

Can you please accept that other people have as much right to comment on this issue as you do.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 06:32 PM
Yes, and to use your word, what on earth is 'wrong' with that? Sorry, but I don't consider my knowledge of music useless because I cannot play an instrument.

Of course you have a point about the extra knowledge that musicians have. But you seem to be saying that only their knowledge and their opinions have any validity.

Nothing is wrong with it. But I'm just saying musicians see it both ways, simply and comprehensively. I never said anyone's knowledge was useless so please do not put words in my mouth.

As I said earlier all opinions are valid. I'm not going to type that again as I meant it when I said it. I'm not saying only their opinions are valid, but rather they see it from two different angles where as most people only see one. And when we try to present the other angle people are confused by it because they only know it the other way.

Shadowland07
12-07-2011, 06:45 PM
I don't think anyone here is confused or seeing it only one way Walshfan.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 06:47 PM
I don't think anyone here is confused or seeing it only one way Walshfan.

Well I guess we all see it differently then and that's that.

Topkat
12-07-2011, 07:30 PM
My quote:

Just because someone isn't a musician, doesn't mean they can't identify with great songwriting, & lyricisim or creativity for that matter. It is all in the ear of the beholder.

WalshFan88:

True, but most people don't. Very few do. There are some here that do. But most people don't. Most people just either like or dislike something.

Say what??? Most people have more of an opinion than they either like or don't like something. I most certainly can identify with great songwriting & lyricisim, anybody who reads, can...
I don't consider myself a musician, even though I have studied piano & played the tuba.....but I have an opinion on a songs musicality, creativity, & lyrics. Don't think that non musicians don't have the capabilities of understanding music....I think people who are music fans can relate to much of it.

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 07:32 PM
My quote:


WalshFan88:


Say what??? Most people have more of an opinion than they either like or don't like something. I most certainly can identify with great songwriting & lyricisim, anybody who reads, can...
I don't consider myself a musician, even though I have studied piano & played the tuba.....but I have an opinion on a songs musicality, creativity, & lyrics. Don't think that non musicians don't have the capabilities of understanding music....I think people who are music fans can relate to much of it.

I know - and I said it's rare that people like you or others can understand musicality of a song. That's what I'm saying. ;) I'm not saying all non musicians can't understand it but most don't IME. There are definitely exceptions as with everything. I've said all I can say on the matter.

Freypower
12-07-2011, 07:46 PM
I know a good melody when I hear it. I know good guitar playing and singing when I hear them. I know good lyrics when I hear them. I have an English degree. However, I am not going to claim that this means I have a better understanding of lyrics than everybody else.

I think it's interesting that even though you claim all this extra knowledge you are still willing to totally dismiss albums like Desperado & songs like Tequila Sunrise because they do not apparently fit your perspective of whether a song or album is any good. That is just personal preference; that is not knowledge based on how good these things are in a musical sense.

We have already accepted that musicians can have an extra dimension of knowledge about music. Now perhaps it is time to move on.

Glennsallnighter
12-07-2011, 07:51 PM
I would agree with FP. Just because you are not a professional musician, it does not mean that you cannot make an informed judgement on a particular song, songs or an album.

And at the end of the day there is the personal dimension. We all like or dislike certain songs/ genres of music. But we also respect others' opinions, once they are given objectively. You will never find an album that everybody in the world thinks is the best ever. Thats what makes us all different. And what makes this world interesting.

I would also second FP's suggestion that we all move on from this now

WalshFan88
12-07-2011, 07:58 PM
I think it's interesting that even though you claim all this extra knowledge you are still willing to totally dismiss albums like Desperado & songs like Tequila Sunrise because they do not apparently fit your perspective of whether a song or album is any good. That is just personal preference; that is not knowledge based on how good these things are in a musical sense.

I'm moving on as well except I feel the need to say this. I AM evaluating those songs in a musical sense. That IS knowledge based on how good they are. As I state in my video - personal bias aside and preference aside, MUSICALLY I find them to be very poor songs and don't hold up. 'Nuff said - moving on.

TimothyBFan
12-08-2011, 10:34 AM
Austin--I have a question I thought about last night. How do you feel about the new groups with classic rock members in them? How about Velvet Revolver with Duff McKagan and Slash from GNR or supergroup, Chickenfoot with Michael Anthony and Sammy Hagar of Van Halen and Joe Satriani, one of the most well known and sought after rock guitarist out there? They are putting out new music that is pretty darn good. You can't get more rock than songs like Get It Up by Chickenfoot. In case you haven't heard or seen them perform it, here's the video from a dvd they did a couple years ago of it. The way you love guitar, I think you will be completely amazed at the way Joe is playing on this. While watching it, I can't take my eyes off of him or Chad Smith on the drums---AMAZING!!! I hope you'll give it a chance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKe4zO20syQ

Freypower
12-08-2011, 06:16 PM
Willie, I hope you don't mind if I respond about Chickenfoot. I have heard them because Mike is a huge Van Halen/Joe Satriani fan so he got the DVD. It isn't my style of music. I respect the talent involved (we went to see Satriani a few years ago) but that's all.

I was going to post more about this anyway. Those of you with partners, have you been influenced at all in your muscial tastes by them? Have you influenced them?

Mike's hero is Frank Zappa & when we first started communicating he sent me tapes (remember he was still in England then) with some Zappa stuff. I would say that I like a lot of it, particularly the 'humorous' stuff but the long instrumental pieces don't really do it for me.

He also loves some prog rock particularly ELP. He has tried & tried to get me to like ELP & their various offshoots, for example Greg Lake solo & Keith Emerson in Moscow, but I have to say the only song I really like is Lucky Man.

He likes stuff like the Cult & Faith No More. We went to see Faith No More. They do nothing for me except for their version of Easy & another song called Stripsearch which isn't bad. But he also liked the Dead Kennedys when they were around. That was the closest he got to punk.

He is a massive fan of Glenn Hughes who was the singer/bassist with Deep Purple during the David Coverdale ere & finally got his wish to see him in Newcastle last year. Same with Ian Hunter. Hughes' voice is far too strident for me & I like some of Hunter's songs but that's it. He also loves Heart & I really don't get them.

I could go on but really the only acts that we both like pretty much the same are Dire Straits & Queen & some of Elton John & Billy Joel. I made him go & see the Eagles once (1995) and the Bee Gees once but now I go to concerts on my own.

EaglesKiwi
12-09-2011, 04:16 AM
My husband, Rob, likes a much broader range of music than I do. Recent concerts he has been to include the Pixies, the Who, he's going to Foo Fighters next week... and we are going to CSN next March (we think!).

He came with me to see the Eagles in Melbourne, and commented that he was surprised at how much he enjoyed it.

Rob is also quite good at picking music that I will like.

TimothyBFan
12-09-2011, 10:13 AM
Willie, I hope you don't mind if I respond about Chickenfoot. I have heard them because Mike is a huge Van Halen/Joe Satriani fan so he got the DVD. It isn't my style of music. I respect the talent involved (we went to see Satriani a few years ago) but that's all.


Of course I don't mind, somebody had to and since the person I asked the question of didn't, I'm glad you did. Great topic regarding our partners taste and influences. Sounds like your husband is my kinda music lover.

As for Larry--I have definitely influenced him more than him influencing me. He has become a big Cars fan and also admitted to enjoying the Eagles concert he's been to with me. Has even found a few Sweet songs that he likes other than Ballroom Blitz or Fox On The Run and admits that they are pretty talented artist, despite what they looked like. He always liked the hits and knew the Eagles music but wasn't a huge fan. We both loved Zep, Heart, Clapton (who happen to be our first date in 1987). Larry's actually the one that introduced me to Rush and tho I enjoyed the Pink Floyd hits, he turned me onto the rest of their stuff.

He'd never really heard the blues and now enjoys them but also likes Jazz which I'm not a huge fan of. We both agree that Country is crap. :lol:

He has said before that he had to get use to hearing music as a background of everything he does since he met me. In other words, he liked listening to music occasionally or the radio while driving but since I have it going literally 24 hours a day in the house, car, etc.... he's gotten use to it. But as he's matured, he now listens to talk radio in his car back and forth to work but if we are together, he knows it's music that must be played.

WalshFan88
12-09-2011, 03:07 PM
Gotta give me time - I don't live by my computer. :rofl:

To answer your question - yes I enjoy most of those bands with classic rock members in them, they are the exception to my rule. They have the creativity, musicality, substance, experience, and quality the bands with younger/newer/newbie members just don't have. I really liked VR in particular. I thought it was a good band and hopefully they will find another singer soon.

Freypower
12-09-2011, 05:46 PM
Of course I don't mind, somebody had to and since the person I asked the question of didn't, I'm glad you did. Great topic regarding our partners taste and influences. Sounds like your husband is my kinda music lover.

As for Larry--I have definitely influenced him more than him influencing me. He has become a big Cars fan and also admitted to enjoying the Eagles concert he's been to with me. Has even found a few Sweet songs that he likes other than Ballroom Blitz or Fox On The Run and admits that they are pretty talented artist, despite what they looked like. He always liked the hits and knew the Eagles music but wasn't a huge fan. We both loved Zep, Heart, Clapton (who happen to be our first date in 1987). Larry's actually the one that introduced me to Rush and tho I enjoyed the Pink Floyd hits, he turned me onto the rest of their stuff.

He'd never really heard the blues and now enjoys them but also likes Jazz which I'm not a huge fan of. We both agree that Country is crap. :lol:

He has said before that he had to get use to hearing music as a background of everything he does since he met me. In other words, he liked listening to music occasionally or the radio while driving but since I have it going literally 24 hours a day in the house, car, etc.... he's gotten use to it. But as he's matured, he now listens to talk radio in his car back and forth to work but if we are together, he knows it's music that must be played.

Larry needs to meet Mike, because Mike introduced me to Rush too. I had never heard of them. I can't go as far as he has (he has a 3 DVD set of Neil Peart talking about drumming - now THAT'S a fan) but I like some of their stuff. In moderation.

BTW I hope this still fits the 'good versus bad' theme of the topic. I think it does. For example Mike will never ever listen to Bob Dylan and he also doesn't like the Beatles or the Rolling Stones. :woah: No ten minute guitar solos.

sodascouts
12-10-2011, 03:42 PM
You know, I've said it before, but I don't understand the amount of adulation surrounding the Beatles. They had a lot of good, catchy tunes. Certainly they were a good band with many strong songs. However, the worshipful nature with which they are treated mystifies me. When I listen to their greatest hits, I enjoy most of them, but I never find myself thinking "Wow, this is by far the most compelling and brilliant music ever recorded in the history of rock'n'roll!" There are many moments of brilliance to be sure but frankly, to my ears at least, they do not make up the majority of their material. A good percentage, yes, but not the majority.

I realize that what I am saying is blasphemous to many, especially those who experienced "Beatlemania" firsthand and got caught up in the band's mythos as a result, but my unpopular opinion is definitely in the spirit of this thread in terms of demonstrating the subjectivity of one's assessment of quality.

Freypower
12-10-2011, 05:50 PM
I didn't experience the Beatles at the time, although I was given A Hard Day's Night when it came out. They took time to grow on me, but I am in the 'worship' category as for me they were the greatest band of all time and every time I listen to them I hear something new & different, plus they always, ALWAYS make me feel good & lift my spirits when one of their songs comes on. I suppose I'm not claiming objectivity about them as I love them too much.

Some examples of the extraordinary variety of music & lyrics they turned their hands to:

Protest/Social Comment: Revolution
Heavy Metal: Helter Skelter
Psychedelia: Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds
R&B/Soul - Got To Get You Into My Life
Pure Pop: I Want To Hold Your Hand
Folk: Mother Nature's Son
Surrealism: Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Children's Music: Yellow Submarine
Love Songs: In My Life
Anthems: Hey Jude
'What Do They Really Mean': Norwegian Wood
Influence Of Indian Music: Within You Without You
Influence Of Classical Music: Eleanor Rigby (this song alone could go in several categories as it is a work of art)
Satire: The Ballad Of John & Yoko
Classic Rock (just for Austin): Come Together
Cover Versions: Twist & Shout
Harmony Singing: Because
Concept Songs: Side 2 of Abbey Road
England In the 60s: When I'm 64

And I have only give one example in each category when I could have listed so many others. I can't make people think the Beatles were great, but I will be as enthusiastic as I can about them given the chance.

NB: We do have a very good separate topic about them:

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1627

Part of me wants to go back there & post some more random thoughts.

Lisa
12-10-2011, 10:02 PM
The first 45 RPM record I owned was "Help" by the Beatles. 1965. Flip side "I'm Down." I still have the Capitol hit single in a record box.

"A Hard Day's Night" is before my time--I went to the movie "Help,"--and I have not yet seen the movie "A Hard Day's Night."

Subjectivity--in music or the arts--well, think of the enthusiasm of discovery and identity and entertainment--aesthetics--whatever it is that you bring to the art. It is contentious enough--

Ive always been a dreamer
12-11-2011, 11:33 PM
You know, I've said it before, but I don't understand the amount of adulation surrounding the Beatles. They had a lot of good, catchy tunes. Certainly they were a good band with many strong songs. However, the worshipful nature with which they are treated mystifies me. When I listen to their greatest hits, I enjoy most of them, but I never find myself thinking "Wow, this is by far the most compelling and brilliant music ever recorded in the history of rock'n'roll!" There are many moments of brilliance to be sure but frankly, to my ears at least, they do not make up the majority of their material. A good percentage, yes, but not the majority.

I realize that what I am saying is blasphemous to many, especially those who experienced "Beatlemania" firsthand and got caught up in the band's mythos as a result, but my unpopular opinion is definitely in the spirit of this thread in terms of demonstrating the subjectivity of one's assessment of quality.

Well Soda, I think a lot of the reason for the adulation has a lot to do with the fact that they were the first in so many things with regard to pop music and pop culture. Elvis is considered the "King of Rock and Roll" and it was around his time that rock and roll was born. But, The Beatles took just about everything in rock and roll to another level. They were the first band to really write their own songs - and their experimentation with music was pretty much unprecedented at the time. Everything about them was different - their music, their hair and clothes, and their attitudes. I remember that there was one point in the mid 60's where about 8 of the Billboard Top 10 songs were by The Beatles. I can't even fathom that ever happening again. They changed pop culture as much as anything did in the 20th century. Virtually every rock and roll artist today would probably acknowledge that they were influenced either directly or indirectly by The Beatles. Once they came on the scene, music would never be the same again. And they were so prolific in their short time together as they kept reinventing themselves with every new album. So to me - their unequaled influence over pop music and culture is why they get the recognition they get, and deservedly so, IMHO.

Freypower
12-12-2011, 02:19 AM
Dreamer, thanks for writing that, because I didn't really try to address the issue.

WalshFan88
12-12-2011, 05:29 AM
The Beatles are where they are in history for a good reason. Now I'm more of a Stones guy, but even I can see why they were so popular. While I do think Beatlemania is a bit...how do I say it....overrated and over the top, I think their success and fame is well deserved. They were amazing songwriters and IMO the best songwriters that came on the "scene" first, they paved the way for MANY acts, the Lennon/McCartney writing and all of that has directly influenced many bands and I'm sure I'm not wrong by saying that I'm sure Don and Glenn were influenced at least somewhat by that songwriting partnership. I consider them to be the Lennon/McCartney of their time. Don is my favorite, I can't lie. Best songwriter and lyricist of all time IMO and certainly my favorite vocalist.

Getting back to the Beatles, I think their success is in all in the songs and in their writing style and coming up with catchy songs. Also, I'm sure the look and attitude played a part in it but looks and persona will only take you so far in the music business IMO (as far as lasting and achieving historical status) and they certainly were masters of their craft, musically. I can't tell you how many interviews I've read or watched by bands or musicians and so many say the reason they got into music or what inspired them to get into music was after seeing the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show. So many 70s rock musicians are/were influenced by that appearance and that band.

While I'm not the world's biggest Beatle freak - I certainly give credit where it's due and can say that they have earned their place in music history.

And on the subject of the Beatles, and I posted this in the Harrison thread but IMO Joe Walsh is the George Harrison of his time. Always plays for the singer, a lyrical player that never overplays and is very melodic, and one that always plays the parts to serve the song that don't get in the way of the message. That is what George did and what very few have done since IMO. I think think of very few off the top of my head, actually. Joe Walsh and Mike Campbell are the two that come to mind from the 70s.

WalshFan88
12-12-2011, 06:23 AM
Classic Rock (just for Austin): Come Together

:bye: Classic Rock FTW! Actually, Come Together is my favorite Lennon/McCartney song. My favorite Beatles song of all time is Here Comes The Sun, which is a George Harrison song.

Topkat
12-12-2011, 08:14 AM
I have to admit when I saw that post about the Beatles, that smoke was coming out of my ears, but I have been away the past few days, so I thank those of you that have come to defend the Beatles place in Rock History.
I do believe I have read that almost every musician had indicated they were influenced by the Beatles.

My first album was "Meet the Beatles", my first real introduction to music & I swear I carried that album around with me everyplace I went. There was absolute craziness in the stores when the album came out, because people were literally fighting to get one. Remember, you actually had to go the the store & buy it & the stores were running out of them. It was my most treasured possession. It was not just the music, but the look of the group, the first real rock band, the haircuts, the clothing. They introduced the world to an entire new scene in music. They even crossed generations, as young & old people just fell in love with them:inlove:
It was something that if you didn't experience, it may be hard to relate to. But aside from that, the music itself is just pure genius. That first album still stands up today. They also started what became the "British Invasion" of groups from England like the Stones, Hollies, the Who, the Kinks, the Animals,& many others that took over the music business in the 60's. The Beatles did really change music forever.

TimothyBFan
12-12-2011, 10:19 AM
I've stated many times on the board how I just didn't understand all the Beatle hype. Hubby and I rarely argue but when we argue music, there are 2 things we argue, 1} Van Halen vs. Van Hagar and 2} his love of The Beatles and my lack of interest.

That being said, I admit that I've come to appreciate them a bit the last couple of years and have given them a few hours of play time on the turntable including John Lennon's solo works also. There are several songs I really like, such as A Day In The Life, Eleanor Rigby, Lucy In The Sky, Drive My Car and Lady Madonna. And then there's some that I actually cringe when I hear, Yellow Submarine, Sgt. Pepper and Hey Jude (kill me now! Ugh!!). But I'm trying!!!




It was something that if you didn't experience, it may be hard to relate to. But aside from that, the music itself is just pure genius. That first album still stands up today. They also started what became the "British Invasion" of groups from England like the Stones, Hollies, the Who, the Kinks, the Animals,& many others that took over the music business in the 60's. The Beatles did really change music forever.

I don't really remember the "Invasion" because I was so young but I do remember being 4 and having a teenage baby sitter who loved Herman's Hermits and The Animals. To this day, I love Eric Burden. A couple of my favorite bands are the Stones (my hubby's favorite band) and The Hollies. I may not remember it much but I sure do appreciate that it happened.

Topkat
12-12-2011, 03:54 PM
I really can't even pick my favorite Beatles song, but one of them is "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" written by George.
In this tribute to him, his son Dhani is joined onstage by some of his dads friends, Tom Petty, Jeff Lynne, Steve Winwood, & Prince for this song on his induction to the R&R Hall of Fame.....Dhani is the spitting image of George at his age.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ifp_SVrlurY