Shakespeare

[sodascouts]

This came up in another topic, and as I love talking about Shakespeare, I figured I'd start a thread for him!

What are you favorite sonnets, your favorite plays?

My personal favorite sonnet is 130. Here's how it goes:

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red, than her lips red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound:
I grant I never saw a goddess go,
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
And yet by heaven, I think my love as rare,
As any she belied with false compare.

- I love how he looks beyond appearances and says that while the one he loves may not be perfect or a traditional beauty, his love for her is as powerful as those with the most beautiful girlfriends in the world.

My favorite comedy is Much Ado About Nothing. I love the sparring between the two leads, Beatrice and Benedick - and I love that unlike some plays, the female star is just as clever as the male star. The romantic in me also loves that they get together in the end - the thin line between love and hate, eh?

My favorite drama is Hamlet. I know it's the one everybody has to study in school and to some it may be old hat, but there's a reason why students have to study it again and again. It is BRILLIANT. Hamlet's speeches are riveting, and the plot is compelling yet still has moments of joy (unlike some of his other tragedies). I can't get enough of this play.

My favorite history play is Henry V. It is excellent. The Saint Crispin's Day speech makes me choke up every time. The odds are 5 to 1, yet the English still pummel the French because they are the ones with heart. If only it worked like that in the real world! We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...

So, what are other people's favorites? Feel free to chime in!

[Freypower]

Soda, I will chime in, but your education & teaching experience will put you at a great advantage when describing what you like. I can do a bit of academic analysis but not to the extent that you can. Also I will have to get out my Complete Works in order to contribute properly (it's downstairs).

You started with a sonnet and I have to say I have not studied them in depth, but I also like 130 and the one my mother recited at our wedding, 116, which of course is:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.


Is it a cliche to have this said at your wedding? It wasn't for me, because it's true.

At the other extreme you have 129:

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Enjoy'd no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted; and no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallowed bait,
On purpose laid to make the taker mad:
Mad in pursuit, and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

He could do wide eyed romanticism & he could also do cold eyed cynicism.

My favourite play is Macbeth. The 'tomorrow & tomorrow' soliloquy is my favourite passage of literature. My second favourite play is King Lear & then Hamlet.

I would say my favourite comedy is Tweltfh Night because it is so bittersweet. Although I named my daughter Rosalind, to be honest I don't know As You Like It that well.

All the English history plays are great but I don't really have a favourite. Of the Roman history plays it has to be Antony & Cleopatra.

[Glennsallnighter]

I didn't study much Shakespeare in school but I do remember my favourite sonnet going something like (and please bear with me. I haven't seen this one since 1985. I have No idea what number it is). We had to stude about 8 sonnets for our Leaving Certificate. Nancys was included in the 8.



Not marble, nor the gilded monuments
Of princes, shall outlive this powerful rhyme;
But you shall shine more bright in these contents
Than unswept stone besmear'd with sluttish time.
When wasteful war shall statues overturn,
And broils root out the work of masonry,
Nor Mars his sword nor war's quick fire shall burn
The living record of your memory.
'Gainst death and all-oblivious enmity
Shall you pace forth; your praise shall still find room
Even in the eyes of all posterity
That wear this world out to the ending doom.
So, till the judgment that yourself arise,
You live in this, and dwell in lovers' eyes.

ok, I googled it! It was easier, tho I did remember a fair bit. Even at 15 I loved the idea that a poem could survive while great monuments buildings and inventions might not. I had this image in my mind of a piece of parchment with words on it floating above a ruined city!

As regards plays, the only ones I have read and am in any way familiar with are the Merchant of venice and King Lear. Both were interesting but I probably would have understood the Merchant better!

Very interesting topic Soda! I'll be interested to hear what other Borderers have to say!

[Freypower]

That is Number 55 and it sums up how Shakespeare's work will survivie forever.

[Henley Honey]

I have to be honest. It was mandatory that I take a Shakespeare class in high school. It was at a snooty "Academy" for fine young ladies where I learned lots of stuff (bad, fun stuff) -- but not a lot about Shakespeare. Honestly? I don't get it! BA-HOR-RA-HING. Sorry ladies, I know that's blasphemous. It goes right over my pointy little head. Whoopsie!

[Freypower]

Well, I would give you some suggestions for where to start so that you wouldn't find it boring, but if you're not interested I guess it wouldn't make a difference. There's nothing worse than being 'forced' to study Shakespeare and developing a lifelong dislike for his work as a result. And sadly, I think that happens to many people.

I think the first play I studied was Midsummer Night's Dream and I still love the fairytale ambience of the language, plus it also has the comedy of the 'rude mechanicals' which makes it fairly accessible.

[sodascouts]

Have you ever seen Shakespeare performed, HH? His plays were meant to be acted, and sometimes people have such trouble reading the language it turns them off. That's not the case when you see it performed and it all comes together. While it's not 100% true to the text, I recommend watching Kenneth Branagah's Much Ado About Nothing for an entertaining adaption. I am betting it will make you laugh!

However, even if he's not to your tastes, literature - and even the English language - owes him a great deal.

Check out this list of words and phrases he invented - I think you'll be surprised! For instance, did you know Shakespeare coined the word "zany"?

http://www.pathguy.com/shakeswo.htm

[Freypower]

And then there were those Eagles related phrases:

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers

- Henry VI Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2

Oh brave new world,
That has such people in 't!

- The Tempest, Act 5, Scene 1

Although the phrase Brave New World was also used as the title of Aldous Huxley's novel of the 'future'.

[sodascouts]

Also, possibly, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more" from Macbeth might have inspired the line "Peacocks prance and strut upon the stage" from "Waiting in the Weeds."

[Freypower]

Also, possibly, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more" from Macbeth might have inspired the line "Peacocks prance and strut upon the stage" from "Waiting in the Weeds."

Do you think so?! :woah:

As I said above, that is my favourite piece of literature. I would also say 'possibly'.

Another interesting reference is in Don's song Building The Perfect Beast where he sings 'sharper than a serpent's tongue'.

The lines from King Lear are:

How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is
To have a thankless child (Act 1, Scene 4)

[sodascouts]

I thought of another one that might possibly be at least inspired by Shakespeare: Perhaps the description of Othello as "One that loved not wisely but too well" influenced the choice of words for "You didn't love the boy too much - You just loved the boy too well" in "Wasted Time."

[EaglesKiwi]

I thought of another one that might possibly be at least inspired by Shakespeare: Perhaps the description of Othello as "One that loved not wisely but too well" influenced the choice of words for "You didn't love the boy too much - You just loved the boy too well" in "Wasted Time."
I think that one is very likely.

Loving this topic, will be back in to post more. Off the top of my head, my favourite play to read was Merchant of Venice, I also like Othello.

The Kenneth Branagh version of Much Ado About Nothing was wonderful - the opening scenes did a fabulous job of both setting context and establishing that this was meant to be a bit of fun. Emma Thompson made a wonderful Beatrice. Some nice eye candy in that too.

[UK TimFan]

I have to be honest. It was mandatory that I take a Shakespeare class in high school. It was at a snooty "Academy" for fine young ladies where I learned lots of stuff (bad, fun stuff) -- but not a lot about Shakespeare. Honestly? I don't get it! BA-HOR-RA-HING. Sorry ladies, I know that's blasphemous. It goes right over my pointy little head. Whoopsie!
Know what you mean, HH. :smile:
Shakespeare leaves me cold. I don't know why - perhaps it was just the obligatory 'you have to study Shakespeare' at school.

Though I have to agree about the difference that seeing a play performed, as opposed to just reading it, makes. Reluctantly, I was dragged with my classmates to see 'As you like it' at the theatre, and was astonished to find that it was quite funny with some laugh aloud moments.

Some years later, after reading the excellent reviews, I went to see Zeferelli's 'Romeo and Juliet' starring Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey. I was doing quite well until near the end when Romeo finds Juliet presumably dead and he says 'Here's to my love' and drinks the poison. I cried from then until I got home. :blush: As I was travelling by bus in central London, for once I was so pleased that the British reserve stopped people asking me if I was OK. Can you imagine their reaction if I'd replied 'I'm crying because Romeo died'?

Soda will probably cry 'a plague a'both your houses' :grin: for the the liberties Zeferelli took with the text (omitting quite large chunks at times, some of which people consider almost vital to the play), but the fact remains that so many people simply love this version, and more than one admits that it was this film which was the start of a love affair with Shakespeare in general.

Also worth a watch for non-Shakespeare fans is Zeferelli's 'The Taming of the Shrew' with Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor.

Have to add that much as I love the two films I've mentioned, that apart from the The Merchant of Venice which we did at school, I still haven't read any other Shakespeare; I'm a Robert Burns girl. :grin:

ETA: Though I used to hate Robert Burns' 'My love is like a red red rose' with a passion, and used to cover my ears every time it was played on the radio. Then I saw on TV a one-man play starring John Cairney (who bears an uncanny resemblance to portraits of R. Burns!) called 'There was a man' about the life of Robert Burns. The main props were a table, chair, bed, and a hatstand, and possibly pen and paper and food utensils (cup, plate) but it was absolutely engrossing, and several years later I had the good fortune to see John in the play in London.

[Glennsallnighter]

Do you think so?! :woah:

As I said above, that is my favourite piece of literature. I would also say 'possibly'.

Another interesting reference is in Don's song Building The Perfect Beast where he sings 'sharper than a serpent's tongue'.

The lines from King Lear are:

How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is
To have a thankless child (Act 1, Scene 4)

I must remember that next time Laura starts moaning about something trivial.

[EaglesKiwi]

I noticed when flicking through the sonnets that there are some common themes repeated over and over again - he seemed quite enamoured of the idea that his work would endure. Fair enough too.

Yet do thy worst, old Time; despite thy wrong;
My love shall live in my verse, ever live young. (from 19)

For an expression of love, I like this one [91]:

Some glory in their birth, some in their skill,
Some in their wealth, some in their body's force,
Some in their garments, though new-fangled ill,
Some in their hawks and hounds, some in their horse;
And every humour hath his adjunct pleasure,
Wherein it finds a joy above the rest.
But these particulars are not my measure;
All these I better in one general best.
Thy love is better than high birth to me,
Richer than wealth, prouder than garments' cost,
Of more delight than hawks or horses be;
And, having thee, of all men's pride I boast -
Wretched in this alone, that thou mayst take
All this away, and me most wretched make.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I enjoyed studying Shakespeare in school, and I also enjoy occasionally watching some of the plays/movies. However, I must admit that I'm not one that can really discuss them in any detail because there's so many of them that I get them all mixed up. In order to contribute much to this discussion, I'd have to refresh my memory a LOT.

However, I do recognize a lot of Shakespeare's sayings that are now commonplace in every day speech because I had a professor in college that spent time in class discussing this. Another Eagles' reference that no one has mentioned yet is "every dog will have it's day" from Waiting In the Weeds. I knew it was Shakespeare, but I couldn't have told you which play or sonnet it was from without looking it up ... so I did, and it turns out it is from Hamlet - one of my favorites. :thumbsup:

[Freypower]

I thought of another one that might possibly be at least inspired by Shakespeare: Perhaps the description of Othello as "One that loved not wisely but too well" influenced the choice of words for "You didn't love the boy too much - You just loved the boy too well" in "Wasted Time."

I thought about that later on; it's obvious, in my opinion. Love Othello but it's so sad.

I don't want to overdo 'misattribution' but another Eagles line which many people may think is Shakespeare is actually Sir Walter Scott:

'What a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive' (from Marmion).

[Freypower]

Know what you mean, HH. :smile:
Shakespeare leaves me cold. I don't know why - perhaps it was just the obligatory 'you have to study Shakespeare' at school.

Though I have to agree about the difference that seeing a play performed, as opposed to just reading it, makes. Reluctantly, I was dragged with my classmates to see 'As you like it' at the theatre, and was astonished to find that it was quite funny with some laugh aloud moments.

Some years later, after reading the excellent reviews, I went to see Zeferelli's 'Romeo and Juliet' starring Leonard Whiting and Olivia Hussey. I was doing quite well until near the end when Romeo finds Juliet presumably dead and he says 'Here's to my love' and drinks the poison. I cried from then until I got home. :blush: As I was travelling by bus in central London, for once I was so pleased that the British reserve stopped people asking me if I was OK. Can you imagine their reaction if I'd replied 'I'm crying because Romeo died'?

Soda will probably cry 'a plague a'both your houses' :grin: for the the liberties Zeferelli took with the text (omitting quite large chunks at times, some of which people consider almost vital to the play), but the fact remains that so many people simply love this version, and more than one admits that it was this film which was the start of a love affair with Shakespeare in general.

Also worth a watch for non-Shakespeare fans is Zeferelli's 'The Taming of the Shrew' with Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor.

Have to add that much as I love the two films I've mentioned, that apart from the The Merchant of Venice which we did at school, I still haven't read any other Shakespeare; I'm a Robert Burns girl. :grin:

ETA: Though I used to hate Robert Burns' 'My love is like a red red rose' with a passion, and used to cover my ears every time it was played on the radio. Then I saw on TV a one-man play starring John Cairney (who bears an uncanny resemblance to portraits of R. Burns!) called 'There was a man' about the life of Robert Burns. The main props were a table, chair, bed, and a hatstand, and possibly pen and paper and food utensils (cup, plate) but it was absolutely engrossing, and several years later I had the good fortune to see John in the play in London.

I completely agree about the Zefferelli films, both R&J & Shrew. Taylor & Burton were at their best in Shrew, comparable to their efforts in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf.

My favourite Shakespeare films are still Olivier's Richard III & Hamlet, though.

[Freypower]

I enjoyed studying Shakesphere in school, and I also enjoy occasionally watching some of the plays/movies. However, I must admit that I'm not one that can really discuss them in any detail because there's so many of them that I get them all mixed up. In order to contribute much to this discussion, I'd have to refresh my memory a LOT.

However, I do recognize a lot of Shakesphere's sayings that are now commonplace in every day speech because I had a professor in college that spent time in class discussing this. Another Eagles' reference that no one has mentioned yet is "every dog will have it's day" from Waiting In the Weeds. I knew it was Shakesphere, but I couldn't have told you which play or sonnet it was from without looking it up ... so I did, and it turns out it is from Hamlet - one of my favorites. :thumbsup:


As I'm being so precise with the references, here it is:

Let Hercules himself do what he may,
The cat will mew and dog will have his day." (Act 5 Scene 1)

although apparently the first use in English was by Richard Tavener in 1539.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080522103110AAZSBkl

[Lisa]

"Julius Caesar," by a thundering mile.

From Shakespeare's Sonnet 18:

"Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temporate.
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date."
(...to end sonnet 18...)

From the Renaissance, not Shakespeare, not sonnets:

the Pastoral Poems,
"The Passionate Shepherd to His Love" by Christopher Marlowe.

"The Canonization" by John Donne, (a Song) from "Songs and Sonnets" by John Donne.

[sodascouts]

Regarding movies, if you're a purist, you can see all the plays performed in their entirety thanks to the BBC's television series where, over a series of years, they filmed every one of his plays without making any cuts or changes. Unfortunately, purchasing all of them is quite pricey, but you can get them from your local library, even if you have to request inter-library loan. Lucky for me, I could request the university to purchase them as a teaching supplement.

While the BBC productions have terrific acting and are true to the text, they also have limitations; certainly, the budget is much smaller than that of a film, and it shows. Secondly, some of Shakespeare's work simply does not translate well to the small screen. It can seem overlong when you're watching it on a television rather than a stage.

I enjoy film adaptions that keep most of the play intact and choose their cuts with care, but I understand why the cuts are necessary and don't begrudge them. I only begrudge them when they change too much and the play loses its punch.

Also, despite the fact that the original productions in the Globe had a minimal set, I like cinematographers to take advantages of the medium's larger scope to give the locales and sets additional realism.

A pet peeve of mine is when they change time periods. It takes the plays out of context. A lot of times it's done to make a "statement" - like the modernized Macbeth starring Patrick Stewart which likens his character to the Communist revolutionaries of the early 20th century - or to make it more "accessible" such as that awful modernization of Romeo and Juliet in the nineties starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Clare Danes. Sometimes it's done for no apparent reason at all, which is even worse! That's why I can't get behind Branagh's Hamlet, as much as I love his other Shakespearean productions. Moving the play up a few hundred years was so gratuitous that I wonder if he did it simply because he thought 19th century costumes looked better on him.

While the BBC productions are the truest to the plays, here are some film versions that, while not entirely true to the plays, I find entertaining (you'll note two directors who are excellent with Shakespeare that keep popping up, lol):

Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing
Branagh's Henry V
Parker's Othello
Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet
Zeffirelli's Taming of the Shrew
Zeffirelli's Hamlet (controversial, I know, but I think it works for all its flaws)
Olivier's Richard III
Radford's The Merchant of Venice
Brook's King Lear (the 1971 version)

Also, in spite of the swath of cuts made and the extremely low budget since they were produced for 1960s television, I love An Age of King's presentations of Richard II, Henry IV (all parts), Henry V, Henry VI (all parts), and Richard III all in a line using the same actors - including a young Sean Connery as Hotspur!

For the rest of Shakespeare's plays, I haven't yet found movies that have struck me as particularly well-done, except the BBC productions of course.

[UK TimFan]

A pet peeve of mine is when they change time periods. It takes the plays out of context. A lot of times it's done to make a "statement". Sometimes it's done for no apparent reason at all, which is even worse! That's why I can't get behind Branagh's Hamlet, as much as I love his other Shakespearean productions. Moving the play up a few hundred years was so gratuitous that I wonder if he did it simply because he thought 19th century costumes looked better on him.
:rofl::rofl:

[Freypower]

This is one of my absolute pet peeves. When Shakespeare is taken out of context and played in Fascist Germany or Stalinist Russia that is just telling you how 'clever' the director or actor thinks he is. We have a company called Bell Shakespeare which only performs his work in modern dress. Their 'vision' statement gives you an idea of what they are about:

http://www.bellshakespeare.com.au/about/vision

I take particular issue with 'to use Shakespeare as Australians'. Why? Shakespeare was/is for everybody and doesn't have to be dumped on top of a particular society to be relevant.

It says all you need to know now that the company logo has the word 'Shakespeare' upside down.

And look at what they apparently are going to do with their new production of Macbeth. Turn the Macbeths into yuppies.

http://www.bellshakespeare.com.au/whatson/2012/macbeth

As for Lady Macbeth being 'highly erotic'; she's the opposite.

I could go on. The bottom line is I don't believe in Shakespeare being used to push one person's belief in what it SHOULD have been about.

[EaglesKiwi]

I know I'm going back a few days, but I wanted to comment on this:


...
You started with a sonnet and I have to say I have not studied them in depth, but I also like 130 and the one my mother recited at our wedding, 116, which of course is:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.


Is it a cliche to have this said at your wedding? It wasn't for me, because it's true...
IMHO, Shakespeare is often quoted in little snippets which people then think are cliched. Certain of the sonnets are referred to over and over again, ditto lines from plays e.g. "To be or not to be, that is the question".

Taken out of contect and overdone they lose their original impact and/or beauty.

I watched an episode of Doctor Who where the Dr and Martha travel back to Shakespeare's time. At the very end of the episode Shakespeare is saying goodbye to Martha (after flirting with her all episode) and says something along the lines of writing a poem for her - then starts wtih "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?"

Okay, this is a very long-winded way of saying, "Wow, imagine being the person one of the sonnets was written for, and hearing it for the first time - not only is it so beautiful, but it's about you."

[Freypower]

I don't necessarily think use of Shakespearean lines out of context is cliched. I always get a laugh from 'it is a custom more honoured in the breach than the observance' from Hamlet even if the person using it has no idea it's from Shakespeare.

I think if there's one line that may be overused it is 'if music be the food of love, play on' from Twelfth Night.

[EaglesKiwi]

I don't necessarily think use of Shakespearean lines out of context is cliched. I always get a laugh from 'it is a custom more honoured in the breach than the observance' from Hamlet even if the person using it has no idea it's from Shakespeare.

I think if there's one line that may be overused it is 'if music be the food of love, play on' from Twelfth Night.
Yes - the line itself is good, but it MAY get a reaction from some people of "oh not that old line again".

Maybe you always get a laugh because you quote appropriately!

[Freypower]

What I meant was I find that line amusing, as so much of Hamlet's speech is:

Horatio:
My lord, I came to see your father's funeral.

Hamlet:
I prithee do not mock me, fellow studient,
I think it was to see my mother's wedding.

Horatio:
Indeed, my lord, it followed hard upon.

Hamlet:
Thrift, thrift, Horatio, the funeral bak'd-meats
Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables.

[sodascouts]

It's always interesting to see whether the actor playing Hamlet does those lines with a laugh or a sneer. The lines are obviously jabs at Gertrude and Claudius either way, but since this is the first time we meet Hamlet in the play, noting how they are said often cues you as to which direction the actor will go when it comes time to portray Hamlet's "antic disposition."

[Freypower]

If it were me, I would play that absolutely straight; he's still in shock at the betrayal of his father by his mother & he isn't kindly disposed to anyone or anything. Profound disillusionment is how we first see him.

[EaglesKiwi]

If it were me, I would play that absolutely straight; he's still in shock at the betrayal of his father by his mother & he isn't kindly disposed to anyone or anything. Profound disillusionment is how we first see him.
I agree - the laugh is more appropriate for the audience at this stage, not so much for Hamlet.

[sodascouts]

I watched The Taming of the Shrew starring John Cleese last night. I honestly wasn't that impressed, although I love Cleese. Perhaps my distaste for the play hampered my enjoyment of his performance.

[StephUK]

I didn't have to study Shakespeare at school, and I wouldn't say I'm over-familiar with his plays, but I love his poetry, especially the Sonnets.

This is part of the dedication from Shakespeare in the 1609 edition of the sonnets:-

TO THE ONLIE BEGETTER OF
THESE INSVING SONNETS (Insving is of course Insuing)
MR W.H. ALL HAPPINESS
AND THAT ETERNITIE
PROMISED

There is much speculation over who Mr W H was.
(Maybe he was predicting the beauty of a future Mr W H.........Will Hollis?!!!:lol::lol::lol:)

Seriously though, Shakespeare & his family had a very interesting life. Don't know if any of your saw the TV series by Michael Wood called "Searching for Shakespeare". I have it on DVD and also have the book which accompanied the series. It's very good and gives insight into what life was like in England in Shakespeares time - the police state of Queen Elizabeth 1st and the Reformation(Shakespeare's family were Catholics, so it was a troublesome time for them), and about where & how his plays were first performed.
I would recommend it as good viewing/reading if your interested in Shakespeare.

It's hard to say which are my favourite sonnets as it changes depending on my mood, but I think these are probably the ones I keep coming back to:-

29 When in disgrace with Fortune and men's eyes,......

34 which includes the lines Though thou repent, yet I have still the loss
Th' offender's sorrow lends but weak relief
To him that bears the strong offence's cross.

62 Being your slave, what should I do but tend, upon the hours and
times of your desire?

147 My love is as a fever, longing still For that which longer nurseth the
disease,

148 O me, what eyes hath Love put in my head,

I do so love poetry:nod:

[sodascouts]

I've seen that documentary, Steph. I think some of it is speculation rather than known fact, but with such old documents, it's understandable that they try to "fill in the blanks."

I love the sonnets too! My favorite, I think, is Sonnet 130 - aka "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun." It's funny but has a sweet message, too. His lady isn't a gorgeous, perfect, dainty "goddess" but a more earthy, average-looking woman - yet he loves her dearly. It takes the typical love sonnet praising a woman's (often greatly exaggerated) perfections and turns it inside out, so that it becomes a love sonnet for those who "tread on the ground." When I ask my students to pick a favorite sonnet, this one always gets several votes.

For those unfamiliar with it, here it is:

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.

I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.

I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress when she walks treads on the ground.
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.

[StephUK]

I think you're probably right Soda. Most documentaries include some speculation, whatever the topic.
Have you read the book?

[StephUK]

There was a series of TV films a few years ago which were modern translations of Shakespeare plays, played out in today's world. I saw The Taming of the Shrew and didn't like it at all.(Rufus Sewell played one of the main characters)
I prefer the old plays with actors like Laurence Olivier. Shakespeare's use of language is what makes it for me, so hearing it all in modern english and set in an office situation didn't appeal to me at all.

[Lisa]

A visit to see a play at the Globe takes the audience back a few (hundred) years, too! It is entirely renovated.
Stratford-upon-Avon has a relatively new arts and theater complex--where many name actors perform Shakespeare and other influential dramatic works. Maybe that is where the series was filmed?

[sodascouts]

Steph, I'm afraid I haven't read the accompanying book. I got the documentary off of Netflix. As for modernizations - UGH. Pale imitations of the master.

Lisa - I got to see a play at The Globe when I was in London in 2006. Unfortunately, it was one of my least favorites - the gory Titus Andronicus. Still, it was so cool to see a Shakespeare play there that I didn't care!

[Lisa]

"Titus Andronicus!"

I think the Globe often tries to perform some of the less performed works.

[Freypower]

I saw Henry IV Part One there in 2010. It was a fantastic experience.

[Henley Honey]

I learned this morning that there is a rather large bell that will be used in some capacity for the Summer Olympics in London. Inscribed on the bell is something from Shakespeare -- maybe from the Tempest??? I'm not positive about the Play, but I'm positive there is an inscription. Check it out Ladies and let me know!!!

P.S.. This will probably be my one and only post on this "cerebral" thread. Jus sayin. . . . . .

[Freypower]

I learned this morning that there is a rather large bell that will be used in some capacity for the Summer Olympics in London. Inscribed on the bell is something from Shakespeare -- maybe from the Tempest??? I'm not positive about the Play, but I'm positive there is an inscription. Check it out Ladies and let me know!!!

P.S.. This will probably be my one and only post on this "cerebral" thread. Jus sayin. . . . . .

I don't get the impression that there is an inscription on the bell, just that the theme of the opening ceremon, Isle of Wonders, is inspired by The Tempest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/furniture-beds-linen-and-more-_-its-moving-in-day-at-londons-olympic-village/2012/01/27/gIQAgnK0UQ_story.html

[Henley Honey]

I don't get the impression that there is an inscription on the bell, just that the theme of the opening ceremon, Isle of Wonders, is inspired by The Tempest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/furniture-beds-linen-and-more-_-its-moving-in-day-at-londons-olympic-village/2012/01/27/gIQAgnK0UQ_story.html


They read the inscription and were pretty definitive about it, so yes, I'm pretty positive there's an inscription.

[Freypower]

Here you are HH. This is more specific.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9043917/London-2012-Olympics-Shakespeare-theme-to-lead-Isles-of-Wonder-Olympic-opening-ceremony.html

The line is spoken by Caliban in Act 3:

Be not afeard. The isle is full of noises,
Sounds, and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices
That, if I then had waked after long sleep
Will make me sleep again; and then in dreaming
The clouds methought would open and show riches
Ready to drop upon me, that when I waked
I cried to dream again.
Shakespeare - The Tempest, Act III

[sodascouts]

Thanks for the info, HH!

It's interesting that the inscription on the bell is a line from a speech by Caliban, a bitter beast and would-be rapist. The line itself sounds nice at first, but upon closer examination in its context you realize that Caliban's dream that he cries to return to is the one that promises him "riches" rather than the music of the island, which he admits one hears when awake as well as asleep. At least, that's my interpretation.

[sodascouts]

I'm getting ready to teach my independent study for Shakespeare by watching the BBC's Othello starring Anthony Hopkins because it's very true to the text. I don't think he's very convincing as the lead, though. It's impossible for me to get past the fact that he's sporting no more than a suntan and a curly wig to play The Moor. A major part of Othello's issues are his insecurities due to his blackness, and this attempt isn't cutting it. Poor casting can really sabotage a production. You would think the BBC would want to cast a black man in the role.

For those who haven't seen it, here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pT_NAJZ9so

[Freypower]

I enjoyed Hopkins in the role. Have you seen the Olivier version, Soda? His 'blackface' was severely criticised but I thought he was superb. The interpretation I would have loved to have seen was Paul Robeson.

[EaglesKiwi]

I would have loved to have seen the Patrick Stewart stage version in 1997, where the races were flipped and he played Othello as the only white man instead of the only black man. Yes, I know it's not "true to text" but it was thought-provoking which IMHO justified the decision...

[sodascouts]

FP - I appreciated the Olivier version as high-quality but it's not his best work, IMHO. I did prefer his Othello to Hopkins'. I will say this though - Hopkins did really commit to the role, at one point literally frothing to the mouth. It was scary!

It's not my favorite play anyway. Desdemona is so weak and pathetic. She doesn't even try to run away from Othello when he tells her to pray because he's getting ready to kill her! Instead, she says, "I hope you will not kill me..." Um. How about you scream for help?? This is also true later when she pleads for her life. Screaming and running would have been far more effective! While Shakespeare isn't known for his realism, he usually is better about convincing characterizations in his tragedies.

The worst part of all is that when she chokes out her last words to her maid who finally has come to help her because she heads the smothering taking place, Desdemona tells her to not blame Othello for her death. I know that it's supposed to show that she's an angel instead of a whore, but it's too much.

EK - that definitely would have been interesting. I love Patrick Stewart!

[Freypower]

FP - I appreciated the Olivier version as high-quality but it's not his best work, IMHO. I did prefer his Othello to Hopkins'. I will say this though - Hopkins did really commit to the role, at one point literally frothing to the mouth. It was scary!

It's not my favorite play anyway. Desdemona is so weak and pathetic. She doesn't even try to run away from Othello when he tells her to pray because he's getting ready to kill her! Instead, she says, "I hope you will not kill me..." Um. How about you scream for help?? This is also true later when she pleads for her life. Screaming and running would have been far more effective! While Shakespeare isn't known for his realism, he usually is better about convincing characterizations in his tragedies.

The worst part of all is that when she chokes out her last words to her maid who finally has come to help her because she heads the smothering taking place, Desdemona tells her to not blame Othello for her death. I know that it's supposed to show that she's an angel instead of a whore, but it's too much.

EK - that definitely would have been interesting. I love Patrick Stewart!

You're like my mother; Othello is her least favourite play too. Desdemona is the classic 'victim' though. It's so incredibly sad & unnecessary, it's pitiful ('the pity of it, Iago'!) rather than tragic, really, but there is still some great language in it. I think that in reality Othello would have seen what Iago was up to from the start, but I suppose the jealousy & insecurity which amounts to his 'tragic flaw' prevents that.

[zeldabjr]

I have been reading "Classics" lately... my friends think I'm crazy... maybe I am but I would love to read some Shakespeare... any suggestions where to start?

[Freypower]

It depends what you are interested in. Perhaps start with one of the comedies, A Midsummer Night's Dream or Twelfth Night. Then you could try Romeo & Juliet or Much Ado About Nothing. Then you could move to the history plays & finally the tragedies.

[sodascouts]

I recommend Much Ado about Nothing. What a riot! Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet are always crowd pleasers. However, I would save the history plays for last. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of all the nobles in those and it gets confusing.

[sodascouts]

Speaking of Shakespeare's history plays, I'm teaching an honors seminar next semester and I've decided to do the class on the "miniseries" of history plays that portray the reigns of Richard II, Henry IV, Henry V, Henry VI, Edward IV, and Richard III in sequence! That's very rarely done and I'm excited about it. We will also discuss Shakespeare's use of "poetic license" with England's history.

[Freypower]

I wish I could be in your class, Soda.

[EaglesKiwi]

I wish I could be in your class, Soda.
Me too!

[sodascouts]

You would no doubt be my star students! Plus, when we get to Henry VI Part 2 and Dick the butcher says the line "Let's kill all the lawyers", the rest of the students would stare in puzzlement as we sang in unison "Kill 'em tonight!"

[Henley Honey]

You would no doubt be my star students!


Not me! I'd be the confused and disruptive student in the back of the classroom. :spin:

[zeldabjr]

I found a book today for $1 in a used book store... Shakespeare Four Comedies... It has The Taming of the Shrew, A Midsummer Night's Dream, The Merchant of Venice, and Twelfth Night. I'm going to start with a Midsummer Night's Dream... hope I can understand it.:hmm::headscratch:

[sodascouts]

I suggest you rent (or find on YouTube) performances of those as well. It will probably make it a lot easier to understand them! Plays were meant to be performed. Just make sure it's not one of those "put Shakespeare in another time period" versions before you view it.

[EaglesKiwi]

You would no doubt be my star students! Plus, when we get to Henry VI Part 2 and Dick the butcher says the line "Let's kill all the lawyers", the rest of the students would stare in puzzlement as we sang in unison "Kill 'em tonight!"
Oh my, I could immediately picture that! :hilarious:

[Outlawman13]

Do I love Shakespeare!!!!!!!! Man I can read all of his stuff everyday. My favvie is Much Ado About Nothing. LOL ohhh David Tennant's style is the best (I think). My favourite, writer/poet.

[sodascouts]

I know you love David Tennant from Dr. Who but oh my gosh, I found his Hamlet to be horrific. I don't blame him, really - I blame the director and adapters who found it necessary to truncate the "to be or not to be speech"(!!!) and have it delivered in the action section of a Blockbuster (!!!!)... while that was one of the worst moments, the movie is full of them. I understand the desire to modernize Shakespeare but in this case, "bastardize" is a more appropriate term. The best actor in the world couldn't have saved that wretched adaptation.

[Outlawman13]

LOL you and me both on the Hamlet. Not one of his finest hours for sure. LOL. I just love Shakespeare. His writings are always going to be my favvies (even though an actor screws them up). LOL.

[AlreadyGone95]

I thought that I would revive this super old thread to say that there is an hour long show that has aired a few times on PBS called Shakespeare's Tomb. It delves into the mystery surrounding Shakespeare's death, his burial, and tomb. I watched it, and was fascinated by it, despite knowing next to nothing about Shakespeare. It's available to watch online, but I don't know if it's available for international viewers.
http://www.pbs.org/show/shakespeares-tomb/

I would like know where a novice of Shakespeare should start. My 9th grade class was supposed to read Romeo and Juilet, but after 2 days of trying, the teacher gave up because of the language barrier. Instead, she showed us a movie of it from the 1960s. We also watched a movie of Much Ado About Nothing, but I don't remember anything about either movie. I dropped out of school not long after that, so I haven't studied Shakespeare since then (over 5 years ago). I'm pretty sure that I'll have to study his works a bit in college, and I would like to have some knowledge of his plays, so I would like to know what popular plays are the best, and what movies are the best adaptions of them.

[buffyfan145]

I love a lot of Shakespeare's plays!!! :D The first one I ever saw actually was a ballet version of "Romeo and Juliet" when I was about 8 or 9. My Girl Scout troop went to see it and I not only loved seeing ballet but I loved the story. Then I finally read it my freshman year of high school and it's still my favorite. We also in school had to read one of his plays every year so I also read "Julius Caesar", "Hamlet", and "Macbeth". After high school I read more of his plays and really loved "Much Ado About Nothing", "A Midsummer Night's Dream", and "The Tempest". I still have others I need to read and I've really liked the film adaptions of them, including ones I didn't realize like "10 Things I Hate About You", which is the 90s modern day adaptation of "The Taming of the Shrew".

[Freypower]

I know you love David Tennant from Dr. Who but oh my gosh, I found his Hamlet to be horrific. I don't blame him, really - I blame the director and adapters who found it necessary to truncate the "to be or not to be speech"(!!!) and have it delivered in the action section of a Blockbuster (!!!!)... while that was one of the worst moments, the movie is full of them. I understand the desire to modernize Shakespeare but in this case, "bastardize" is a more appropriate term. The best actor in the world couldn't have saved that wretched adaptation.

You wrote on Facebook that you thought Tennant was the best Hamlet of his generation. I had completely forgotten about this topic & assumed you were serious.

[Freypower]

I thought that I would revive this super old thread to say that there is an hour long show that has aired a few times on PBS called Shakespeare's Tomb. It delves into the mystery surrounding Shakespeare's death, his burial, and tomb. I watched it, and was fascinated by it, despite knowing next to nothing about Shakespeare. It's available to watch online, but I don't know if it's available for international viewers.
http://www.pbs.org/show/shakespeares-tomb/

I would like know where a novice of Shakespeare should start. My 9th grade class was supposed to read Romeo and Juilet, but after 2 days of trying, the teacher gave up because of the language barrier. Instead, she showed us a movie of it from the 1960s. We also watched a movie of Much Ado About Nothing, but I don't remember anything about either movie. I dropped out of school not long after that, so I haven't studied Shakespeare since then (over 5 years ago). I'm pretty sure that I'll have to study his works a bit in college, and I would like to have some knowledge of his plays, so I would like to know what popular plays are the best, and what movies are the best adaptions of them.

We saw the tomb programme. It was OK.

I would start with the comedies such as A Midsummer NIght's Dream & Twelfth Night, move up to Romeo & Juliet which speaks to practically everyone, and then maybe try one of the more accessible history plays like Richard II or Richard III, before moving on to the tragedies. With the tragedies start with Macbeth, Othello, then Hamlet & fiallly King Lear.

For movies which are very accessible you can't go past Zeffirellli's Romeo & Juliet & The Taming Of The Shrew with Elizabeth Taylor & Richard Burton. There is also a BBC adaptation of Shrew with John Cleese. The version of Much Ado About Nothing with Kenneth Branagh & Emma Thompson is very popular.

Lord Oliver's films of Henry V, Richard III & Hamlet may be slightly dated now but they are essential viewing.

There was great excitement in London on the 23rd with the 400th anniversary of his death. Even President Obama turned up at the Globe Theatre.

http://blog.shakespearesglobe.com/post/143260577253/president-obama-visits-the-globe-us-president

[AlreadyGone95]

Thanks for answering my question, FP. The next time I go to the library, I'll look for those plays and movies. I think that the anniversary of his passing is why PBS decided to show that program.