KISS

[Grey Sadler]

OK...I'm gonna step out and admit it...my other favorite band is those crazy makeup-wearing guys from New York!! :partytime:
Sometimes I find it strange that my two favorite bands are so diametrically opposed in so many ways (soothing country rock vs. fire-breathing antics?!)...
and then I remember this: http://youtu.be/GUFuJQATLZA :thumbsup:

[zeldabjr]

well GS I'm finally glad you've come clean!!...lol...I like all kinds of music...

[chaim]

KISS has always been and will always remain my favourite band. I mean the whole package; the music, personalities, the magic...There are many bands I prefer musically today, but there's no denying that KISS has released tons of incredible rock music. The first few albums were amazing arrangement-wise. Paul and Ace had their own rhythm parts that complemented each other. Gene did his extremely melodic basslines. Peter had a lot of imagination in his drum patterns, and he was also a beast live.
You can really hear in Hard Luck Woman (the song you posted a link to) how Gene will play some "real sensual" bass for you when you give him a nice song to get off on.

Check this out. A 1975 live performance of Parasite with Peter's drums mixed above everything else:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCNcTXlVWf4

The original KISS was like the original Eagles - four totally different personalities that somehow created magic together. In the original KISS one guy was from Israel (Hungarian parents), whose mother's family was executed in a concentration camp, one guy was half German/half an Indian, one was half Italian/half Irish, one was half German, whose mother had to escape from Germany because of the Nazis. And none of them had nothing in common, except Peter and Gene both loved comics.

[WalshFan88]

I also like KISS... Especially the original members.

My favorite song is probably "Strutter", from the first album. Also the big hit, "Rock N' Roll All Night" too. "Lick It Up" from the 80s unpainted era is a good song to play - it's very easy and probably the only song I like from that time. I played it at my event a few months ago when someone sang it and it was a good one. But generally I prefer the earlier KISS stuff.

I saw them a couple years ago... I can't say much on it though because there was somebody in the crowd being overly obnoxious and pushing me and it was not letting me focus on the concert so I can't really say how the current band is. It wasn't until this person knocked down 2 people that he got booted, right before the encore. I'm not sure if I'd go again, but you never know.

I'm not a huge Gene Simmons fan, but I do like Paul Stanley. Gene is just too arrogant for my tastes.

[Grey Sadler]

OK...stupid question...can someone direct me to how to post videos?? :-(

[WalshFan88]

OK...stupid question...can someone direct me to how to post videos?? :-(

If they are from YouTube, just copy and paste the link. But not the shortened one. The youtube.com/watch........ is what you want to post.

[Grey Sadler]

Thanks, Austin!
Let's try this...in honor of Eric Carr (who left us 21 years ago today)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gNK-ic2OkE

[zeldabjr]

Good job GS!

[Topkat]

Kiss is one band that I could never get into. I could never get past the ridiculous outfits & the persona of the band. Some of the songs are OK, but once when I worked downtown in the 90's they were making an appearance at a record shop (yeah, remember them?) I saw them outside in the street. People were stopping them for autographs, but I couldn't help thinking how ridiculous they looked, & that they were just some band totally in it for the money & promoting themselves on any piece of plastic junk they could. They made millions off just the junky stuff they sold with their likeness. To me this band was not about the music at all & that they were a kids band..Are they deserving of all the accolades? To me, No they aren't!

[EagleLady]

Kiss is one band that I could never get into. I could never get past the ridiculous outfits & the persona of the band. Some of the songs are OK, but once when I worked downtown in the 90's they were making an appearance at a record shop (yeah, remember them?) I saw them outside in the street. People were stopping them for autographs, but I couldn't help thinking how ridiculous they looked, & that they were just some band totally in it for the money & promoting themselves on any piece of plastic junk they could. They made millions off just the junky stuff they sold with their likeness. To me this band was not about the music at all & that they were a kids band..Are they deserving of all the accolades? To me, No they aren't!

I think you are wrong on All Accounts and are Judging them unfairly based on their unique costumes.

I believe KISS IS About the music!

Many Bands have had merchandise, Beatles for example, did that make them in it for the money? I am sick of All the KISS Bashing because of it.

[Tiffanny Twisted]

sorry never was really into this badn but they did look/sound good on david letterman the other night

[Grey Sadler]

Yep, I finally got to see it (no DVR here :eyebrow:)...
IMO, the boys looked great, but I just don't know how I feel about the status of Paul's voice (post-surgery)...gonna have to compare what's on YT with the actual recording from Monster...

But yes, I do love me some Paul...and Bruce Kulick (favorite former member, now with Grand Funk) :partytime:

[chaim]

If people discuss KISS's music, I don't see the relevancy of the way they look. It's like saying "Randy Newman sucks, because he's doesn't look good at all". If the famous portrait is to be trusted, J. S. Bach was one ugly son of a gun. So I guess his music isn't that great. I realize that KISS has sold a lot of stuff that doesn't have anyhing to do with music, and they wore silly clothes and makeup, but how does that make the songs worse???

[UK TimFan]

Kiss is one band that I could never get into. I could never get past the ridiculous outfits & the persona of the band. Some of the songs are OK, but once when I worked downtown in the 90's they were making an appearance at a record shop (yeah, remember them?) I saw them outside in the street. People were stopping them for autographs, but I couldn't help thinking how ridiculous they looked, & that they were just some band totally in it for the money & promoting themselves on any piece of plastic junk they could. They made millions off just the junky stuff they sold with their likeness. To me this band was not about the music at all & that they were a kids band..Are they deserving of all the accolades? To me, No they aren't!
I know I will be howled down, too, but I can see where TK is coming from.
I have never knowingly listened to a Kiss song. Never will.
Why? Because the way they dress doesn't make me want to listen to them or know more about them.

And I refuse to believe that other people don't like other singers/bands for equally illogical reasons.
Sometimes, you can't even give a reason. If you ask me why I don't like the Rolling Stones, I can't explain why; it's simply that I don't. :)
Um, make that 'I just don't like their music'. Does that sound more logical?

[EagleLady]

Its ridiculous to Judge them based on Costumes.

[Topkat]

If people discuss KISS's music, I don't see the relevancy of the way they look. It's like saying "Randy Newman sucks, because he's doesn't look good at all". If the famous portrait is to be trusted, J. S. Bach was one ugly son of a gun. So I guess his music isn't that great. I realize that KISS has sold a lot of stuff that doesn't have anyhing to do with music, and they wore silly clothes and makeup, but how does that make the songs worse???

I don't base them on the "ugly" factor. I base it on the persona of the band, the fact that to me they looked like kiddy cartoon characters, & they were presented that way. I can only say that a few of their songs are decent, but they are never a band I could get serious about...That is just my opinion. I know that some people love this band, but I would have absolutely zero interst in seeing them at a live show. They are tv entertainment at best. JMHO

[TimothyBFan]

Count me among the non Kiss fans. Never really got the whole Kiss Army thing and it really hasn't got much to do with the way they dress. I simply don't like the whole package and that includes their music. I've been known to say if their music is so good, why do they need the costumes but I don't know if that's fair because even without the makeup, etc... I don't like them. I can think of only a couple of their songs I've ever really liked and that was Beth and Detroit Rock City. I will say that I think Gene Simmons must be a genius with the way he's marketed them. And I really like watching Family Jewels--I get a kick out of his kids and wife and the way they pretty much laugh some of his antics off. :hilarious: And I do own Ace Frehley's album (from when they each put out a solo album way back when) because I do love the song New York Groove.

[EagleLady]

I don't base them on the "ugly" factor. I base it on the persona of the band, the fact that to me they looked like kiddy cartoon characters, & they were presented that way. I can only say that a few of their songs are decent, but they are never a band I could get serious about...That is just my opinion. I know that some people love this band, but I would have absolutely zero interst in seeing them at a live show. They are tv entertainment at best. JMHO


How are they Just "Tv Entertainment" You are being WAY Too Judgmental, JMO!

[UK TimFan]

Its ridiculous to Judge them based on Costumes.
It's one of the reasons why the word 'illogical' is in the dictionary. :grin:

[chaim]

One thing that we should remember about KISS, I think, is that all of their first album and some of the second and third had been written before they even came up with the makeup concept. And in the studio they certainly never wore makeup. So personally I see the the makeup and music as two separate things. In fact I feel that they may even somewhat contradict each other. With the except of The Elder, and possibly a bit of Destroyer, (and occasional pieces like Almost Human) their music is a lot more rock'n'roll than what their superhero image would suggest.
Anyway, I enjoy most of their 80's music too; and my favourites from that era seem to be the tunes that aren't well known. :rockguitar:
My apologies to Topkat if I was a bit harsh. I guess I'm just a desperate KISS fanatic who sees red whenever his heroes are being talked down, even when that person makes it clear that it's his/her opinion.:evil: To me personally that "TV entertainment at best" definition is way beyond silly, but your opinion is just as important as mine.

[sodascouts]

Music is very subjective. I know I'd get up in arms if I saw the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, or any of their respective members get hated on.

That said, KISS has always been controversial. I wasn't allowed to listen to them as a child because my mom heard KISS stood for "Knights in Satan's Service." Still, I'd see them occasionally on magazine covers and such. When I saw them, they often had fake blood dripping from their mouths, and that freaked me out. I didn't understand why they did it - I just thought they must like blood and hurting people because they were Satanists (I was pretty young). I was both frightened and repulsed. It made the associations I had with the band very negative. Like UK TimFan says, it's illogical. I understand that the quality of their sound has nothing to do with their "look" or stage behavior. It's just such a complete turn-off to me, though, that it makes it hard for me to get past that and enjoy the music.

I'm not saying that what I feel is "right" nor do I judge those who feel differently. If you enjoy their music, more power to you! To each his/her own.

[chaim]

Music is very subjective. I know I'd get up in arms if I saw the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, or any of their respective members get hated on.

That said, KISS has always been controversial. I wasn't allowed to listen to them as a child because my mom heard KISS stood for "Knights in Satan's Service." Still, I'd see them occasionally on magazine covers and such. When I saw them, they often had fake blood dripping from their mouths, and that freaked me out. I didn't understand why they did it - I just thought they must like blood and hurting people because they were Satanists (I was pretty young). I was both frightened and repulsed. It made the associations I had with the band very negative. Like UK TimFan says, it's illogical. I understand that the quality of their sound has nothing to do with their "look" or stage behavior. It's just such a complete turn-off to me, though, that it makes it hard for me to get past that and enjoy the music.

I'm not saying that what I feel is "right" nor do I judge those who feel differently. If you enjoy their music, more power to you! To each his/her own.

That "Knights in Satan's service" thing was invented and spread around the world by some religious group in the 70's. Personally I think this doesn't fit that well with "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor".
A few years ago someone asked Gene Simmons via his website if "KISS" stands for "Knights (or kids) in Satan's Service". Gene's response was: "I can't believe that this bullshit is still out there". Anyway, as far as I know "kiss" means the act of two beings putting their lips together and so on...Gene actually knows an awful lot about religions and he has often educated Christians, who have attacked him on his website, about their own religion.
It's also bizarre that KISS has been accused of Nazism (because of the lightning SS's in the band's name), when you think that Gene's mother's family was wiped off in a concentration camp and Paul's mother had to escape from Germany because of the Nazis.

[sodascouts]

It's awful that people started such lies about them. I can't blame my mom for believing the lies, though, considering the way they dressed, the faces they made, all the blood, song lyrics that reference demons and the occult, the way they write their name in all caps so that it looks like an acronym, etc. Still, what those people did was obviously wrong. I wonder why people start such stories?

[chaim]

It's awful that people started such lies about them. I can't blame my mom for believing the lies, though, considering the way they dressed, the faces they made, all the blood, the way they write their name in all caps so that it looks like an acronym, etc. Still, what those people did was obviously wrong. I wonder why people start such stories?

Personally I think they mean well, but when they start to "bear false witness against their neighbor", they certainly cross a line. And, of course, it's always a small bunch of religious extremists starting these things, but the consequence is that everyone is going to believe it's actually true.
It's one thing to think that someone breathing fire and spitting blood seems satanic, but claiming that there are certain words that a band name consists of is sick (I don't actually know what group came up with that, but I've heard that it was some religious group.). KISS still has to face that lie today. For Gene that demon character came from comics he had always loved; and that fire breathing was the manager's idea and Gene was the only one in the band willing to learn to do that.
Gene is a very educated person (he's schooled and he's read hundreds - perhaps thousands - of books about all kinds of things) and he's very intelligent. I think he once summed up his own stage character pretty well: "I'm a complete buffoon, but nobody does it better". :hilarious: The KISS image is just fun.
By the way, which lyrics did you mean when you mentioned "demons and the occult"? There's only one KISS song that could be read like that (God of thunder), and even that is tongue-in-cheek; sort of a twisted love song with that "Daughter of Aphrodite" line.

[sodascouts]

"God of Thunder" is the one that was held up as evidence. I went back and re-read the lyrics to make sure, and they were pretty bad. It also happens to be one of the three KISS songs I am familiar with, lol. I'm not exactly an expert on their catalog, and I defer to your knowledge that this is an exception - albeit a notable one, as it seems to be treated as a "theme song" by Simmons for his persona and it gets featured prominently during live shows as a result.

Gene Simmons knew what he was doing when he based his stage persona on a "comic book" demon and all that entails. He doesn't worship Satan, but he didn't mind doing a good impersonation if it sold records and concert tickets... And it probably did. It just didn't sell them to people who are uncomfortable with that kind of thing. No fundamentalist liars are necessary for that kind of thing to turn me off. If you get a kick out of it, though, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not my deal.

[chaim]

"God of Thunder" is the one that was held up as evidence. I went back and re-read the lyrics to make sure, and they were pretty bad. It also happens to be one of the three KISS songs I am familiar with, lol. I'm not exactly an expert on their catalog, and I defer to your knowledge that this is an exception - albeit a notable one, as it seems to be treated as a "theme song" by Simmons for his persona and it gets featured prominently during live shows as a result.

Gene Simmons knew what he was doing when he based his stage persona on a "comic book" demon and all that entails. He doesn't worship Satan, but he didn't mind doing a good impersonation if it sold records and concert tickets... And it probably did. It just didn't sell them to people who are uncomfortable with that kind of thing. No fundamentalist liars are necessary for that kind of thing to turn me off. If you get a kick out of, though, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not my deal.

That's the point. People should be able to decide for themselves. If someone feels an artist is satanic, it's different, but being told so by people who don't know is another (I'm not referring to your mother, but the people who started that).

God of thunder was a song Paul Stanley (with the Starchild character) wrote for himself. It was a love song with bizarre imagery. A total departure for Paul lyricwise. The "hear my word and take heed" was originally "we make love till we bleed". The producer decided that it was better for Gene to sing, and Paul reluctantly agreed. It certainly wasn't written for Gene's character. There are child noises in the song, and those are the producer's kids running around in the studio with miked helmets. I can understand how the song might bother people, but the band and the producer (and his kids) were just having fun in the studio.

(the God Of Thunder Lyrics:

You've got something about you
You've got something I need
Daughter of Aphrodite
Hear my words and take heed
I was born on Olympus
To my father a son
I was raised by the demons
Trained to reign as the one

God of thunder and rock and roll
The spell you're under
Will slowly rob you of your virgin soul

I'm the lord of the wastelands
A modern day man of steel
I gather darkness to please me
And I command you to kneel
Before the

God of thunder and rock and roll
The spell you're under
Will slowly rob you of your virgin soul


I am the lord of the wastelands
A modern day man of steel
I gather darkness to please me
And I command thee to kneel
Before the

God of thunder and rock and roll
The spell you're under
Will slowly rob you of your virgin soul)

[Topkat]

Its ridiculous to Judge them based on Costumes.

I never judged them based on the costumes, or the ugly factor, I just don't care for them & their "thing" whatever it is. I heard the music on the radio before I even ever saw them & nothing about it inspired me to buy any of the music. When I did see them, it further confirmed my decision not to be a fan!
Believe me, if I loved the music, none of that stuff would have prevented me from seeing them in concert or buying their records...So I would say it is a combination of everything.

I was never into this whole "performance show" with any group. I hate it still today, when there is a bunch of fireworks, pyro tech, smoke, crazy dancing, or whatever they are using in shows these days, I'm just not into it. I want to hear the singing & the musicians & not be distracted with all this other stuff.

[chaim]

Incidentally, I think the funniest part in God Of Thunder is when one of Bob Ezrin's kids screams "What? I can't do it! I DON'T KNOW ABOUT VAMPIRES!!!!" (after being told to make some vampire noises) :hilarious:

[sodascouts]

Chaim, I agree that there is no excuse for lies. Thanks for all the info.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

In my younger days, I somehow missed the 'satanic' label for KISS. I enjoyed hearing their music on the radio, but I never bought any of their music or tried to see them in concert. I'm a 'blue jeans and work boots' kind of woman and so all the make-up and costumes were a huge turn off for me. It was hard to take them seriously.

[chaim]

One more thing about KISS and "satan". Gene's solo album from 1978 starts with a guy's voice repeating a word that has the letters "S" and "T". The word is "S--T--" something. A few years ago someone asked Gene via his website if that word is "Satan". Gene was clearly very annoyed and said, "It's 'SANCTUM' (and I believe he explained what it means). Stop being so childish".

[Brooke]

I've never been a fan of KISS, but like some of their songs. Rock N Roll All Nite, Hard Luck Woman, Beth, Detroit Rock City, I Was Made For Lovin' You, Calling Dr. Love, and Lick It Up are all great rock songs.

As far as their get up, I can say I tried to watch one of their concerts on tv a while back and I just couldn't watch! To me, they just looked bizarre and it made me not want to watch them. I could listen, but not watch. It was just too weird for me and seemed fake.

I heard all of the satanic hype about them too and just didn't care whether it was true or not. I just wasn't interested enough in it all.

I have heard through a friend that went to a concert that they put on one heck of a show, but I don't think I could watch one! :shrug:

I do agree Gene Simmons must be a genius and I like his show.

[chaim]

At first I must make clear that I LOVE this forum. Just to "stir the pot" in a warmhearted way ;)
A song with chord progressions straight from the renaissaince era (sung by Paul):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bcyk2C9Sto

A song that could be a troubadour song from the Middle Ages in terms of the scale and rhythm (sung by Gene):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTUPhS7cPA

And one of the most beautiful pop songs ever, with my favourite guitar solo of all time - by the RHYTHM guitarist of KISS, Paul Stanley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ofrdBdJRM

They are a truly lovely band, who can laugh at their own image, and it does break my heart that people think that those guys are "satanic".

[chaim]

...although Paul said in his speech that it doesn't mean a thing what a couple of people who make these decisions think.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk6RtvZIQAAwDjG.jpg

(I tried, but couldn't find the old KISS topic to put this in!)

[bluefeather]

:applause: for KISS

[Freypower]

Soda can probably move these posts to the existing HOF topic.

https://eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4816

[WalshFan88]

I'm glad they are in the HOF, no matter how much of a joke I think the institution is. I do however think the whole lineup should have been honored, especially Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick...

KISS was definitely influential on late 70s/80s hard rockers and many years after that. I mean KISS influenced glam bands like Motley Crue (along with the NY Dolls) and plenty of others.

I'm not a diehard fan and I get sick of the whole brand and I'll be the first to admit they aren't world class musicians by any stretch but their songs are FUN and they are a great example of rock n' roll and having fun, no matter how trivial their lyrics or simple their music may be.

I feel the same way about Poison.... I mean - they may not be the most talented bunch but I can't resist cranking "Nothin' But A Good Time" when it comes on. Or in KISS's case "Strutter" or plenty of others. And the fact KISS always wanted to put on a show and give fans their money's worth was always cool IMO. No matter how gimmicky it may be.

[MaryCalifornia]

I don't know if I should be in a different thread or what, but Paul Stanley is doing a book signing at my local military base on Friday - I have access to the base. I might go check it out. I'm not a big one for standing in line for ANYTHING, but if it is easy, I might buy the book and get a pic with him...in honor of the fact that theirs was the first album I ever owned, when I was in first grade in 1975!!

http://www.mccsmiramar.com/pdfs/PaulStanley_Booksigning.pdf

[WalshFan88]

Very cool MC!!

I definitely want to get his new book. I've read Gene's, Ace's, Peter's, and have been waiting to have the last piece of the puzzle!

[chaim]

If the old KISS thread still exists, maybe this thread can be moved there? I went through the old topics twice when I was thinking about this topic, but couldn't find it! Now that Paul's book is discussed too, maybe they all could be under the same KISS topic.

Anyway, I bought Paul's book yesterday. All signs I had seen said that the book won't be available here in Finland for a little while. So imagine my surprise when I made a routine visit to the biggest bookstore in this town and saw it there!
I've only read about forty pages so far, but Paul's childhood was clearly horrible. There was never any kind of affection or support from his parents. Paul was born with one good ear. The other one was deformed and he couldn't (still can't) hear with it. All the kids kept shouting ("Stanley the one-eared monster!" - Stanley was his first name originally). Paul writes that it was even worse that grown ups kept staring at him too. In classrooms he couldn't hear what the teacher was saying a lot of the time, so he missed a lot of stuff. Teachers kept telling his parents that this kid is bright, but he won't do anything with it. His parents bought this and were angry at Paul, although they knew that it was hard for him to hear. Paul eventually let his hair grow, and it hid his deformed ear. And his parents threatened to cut his hair!
Paul's big sister had bad mental problems. Once when she was "on holiday" from a mental institution, their parents left the children home alone when they went somewhere (A badly disturbed girl and his little brother). Paul's sister freaked out at some point and started running after Paul with a hammer. Paul eventually ran into a closet and kept wishing that their parents would come home. His sister started beating the closet door with the hammer. Then at some point it stopped. The parents were home and they were furious at Paul!
I'm so glad that Paul got through all that s*** mentally, although it took several decades. And above all, I respect very much the fact that he doesn't pass it on to his kids ("My parents didn't care for me, so why should I care for you?"). And I hope that his relationship with his parents is great today - especially his mother, who was the mean one. They appeared in a KISS documentary and look like nice people.

Paul also compares the kind of treatment he and Gene got from their parents. Well, Gene never saw his father again after moving to USA, but he was, and still is, very close to his mother. Paul was always wrong, while Gene's mother treated Gene like he was a king. Paul writes: "Even when he was on the toilet, she believed he created masterpieces".:hilarious::hilarious:

And one interesting thing. At some point I wondered who Paul's son, Evan, looks like. I don't see any Paul in him. There's a picture in the book where Paul's father is young - maybe in his twenties or early thirties. Know I know who Evan looks like!!

[Freypower]

Here is the old topic, but either Soda or Dreamer will have to move the posts.

https://eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3988

[Brooke]

Oh my, chaim! Poor Paul! How horrible for a child to have to grow up like that! It breaks my heart.

And I'm not really a fan of KISS. I like some of their songs though.

[sodascouts]

I did feel badly for their fans when the original four didn't perform. When will that opportunity arise again?

[chaim]

I did feel badly for their fans when the original four didn't perform. When will that opportunity arise again?

I don't think they will ever play together again. Gene is a softie, so there's possibly a part in him that would like to do it. When this Hall OF Fame thing started, I think Gene said he was willing to do it.
Paul is very much in charge of KISS today. Perhaps because Gene was away so much in the 80's and still got the same amount of money, Paul has this "my way or highway" attitude today. Like Eric Singer said in a recent interview, "Nothing happens in KISS unless Paul says it does". This hasn't always been so. Paul keeps the thing focused. If Gene was in charge, we would get a folk album today and an all-star big band album tomorrow.:hilarious:
So, while it was clear in the HOF ceremony that Paul still has a lot of affection for Ace (see his reactions behind Ace when Ace keeps saying some funny things) - although he obviously can't say it aloud - he seems to feel differently about Peter. Ace is lazy, but he's extremely bright and funny and can probably still deliver the goods on a good day. Peter has a real temper, he complains all the time about everything (always did - hence his nickname The Moaner) AND he can't really play anymore.

Also, when they reunited in the mid-90's, Paul and Gene noticed that all the old problems appeared again. PLUS the current linup is doing well today, so there's no need for a reunion, like there was in the 90's.

So, there are too many things - musical and personal - on the way.

[sodascouts]

Thanks for the info, chaim. Too bad about Peter. So do you think the "we're not playing because all of the members of the band weren't inducted" was just a cover for not playing due to bad feelings?

[chaim]

Probably only Paul and Gene know for sure what the real reason was. The reason for not playing could be the one that was announced. Fans can always speculate, and I think it's also possible that Paul didn't want people to enjoy the original lineup too much that night, because he's been hyping the current lineup so much and bashing the original one!

In my opinion Gene is the only one of the original bunch who still has it both vocally and instrumentally. Paul can play, but his voice is gone. Peter can hardly maintain a beat anymore. Ace can of course still play rhythm well, but you never know if he's going to be great or absolutely horrible when he plays a solo today.

They could have played the first song the four of them ever played together - when Ace was auditioning the band. It's a Gene song, so Paul could have just played guitar and sung harmony. It's a simple song, but even there it's probably easy to lose the plot during the second verse if Peter and Ace aren't totally in sync when they play that syncopated part together.

Anyway, for the good times; during the reunion era some of them had lost a lot of their ability in terms of playing, but there were still moments when they were amazing. The first song the original lineup ever played together, as played during one of their best gigs (a very short one) in 1996:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9nA8x1u2aM

[sodascouts]

Thanks for that video, chaim!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

KISS was definitely influential on late 70s/80s hard rockers and many years after that. I mean KISS influenced glam bands like Motley Crue (along with the NY Dolls) and plenty of others.

I'm not a diehard fan and I get sick of the whole brand and I'll be the first to admit they aren't world class musicians by any stretch but their songs are FUN and they are a great example of rock n' roll and having fun, no matter how trivial their lyrics or simple their music may be.

Well stated, Austin. I'm not a big fan of their music or stage gimmickry either, but I do think they earned their place in the R&R HOF for the reasons you stated.

[chaim]

Just finished Paul's book. For a long time it seemed like a list of misdeeds done to him by various people throughout his life and description of the emptiness inside him that prevented him from communicating with people. But in the end it all seemed to come together. He found things that matter in life and realized how to become a better and happier person. Giving was one of the things he learned - as was not being judgmental. Even his mother (who's dead now) told him that he can call her anytime and talk about things. I was glad to read that his relationship with his parents got better. Paul knows that they do love him.

[chaim]

Bruce Kulick (KISS's lead guitarist from 1984 to mid-90's) was there too, watching the original lineup being inducted.

http://www.kulick.net/photoalbum/RRHOF/BKFrey.jpg

[sodascouts]

Everybody wants their picture with Glenn! ;)

[Freypower]

Another one! Thank you Chaim!

[Grey Sadler]

Bruce Kulick (KISS's lead guitarist from 1984 to mid-90's) was there too, watching the original lineup being inducted.

http://www.kulick.net/photoalbum/RRHOF/BKFrey.jpg

Aww YEAH!! Thank you Chaim!!

[chaim]

A snippet from a new Paul Stanley interview - talking about a Joel Peresman/Stanley Hall Of Fame dispute:

I saw you tweet a photo of yourself from the night of the induction with Glenn Frey, it looked like you were having fun.

I must say that I had a sense of vindication from the bleachers [laughs], I had a sense of ambivalence from some of the people on the floor. But Glenn was terrific, and the Eagles, you can’t deny that these guys have written the American songbook. So to spend some time with him was cool. Carrie Underwood [was there] — the reach and the breadth of the music [that night] was just terrific.

[WalshFan88]

A snippet from a new Paul Stanley interview - talking about a Joel Peresman/Stanley Hall Of Fame dispute:

I saw you tweet a photo of yourself from the night of the induction with Glenn Frey, it looked like you were having fun.

I must say that I had a sense of vindication from the bleachers [laughs], I had a sense of ambivalence from some of the people on the floor. But Glenn was terrific, and the Eagles, you can’t deny that these guys have written the American songbook. So to spend some time with him was cool. Carrie Underwood [was there] — the reach and the breadth of the music [that night] was just terrific.

Interesting!!

I've heard Paul say things not directly mentioning the Eagles but things like "we aren't a band who goes out and sits on stools and playing soft rock and looking bored" or something to that affect. I always assumed he was referring to the Eagles.

Glad to hear Paul praise the band.

[sodascouts]

Cool! Maybe he spotted Glenn smiling and clapping during KISS' induction, whereas some of the celebs and musicians on the floor looked... well, not so enthusiastic.

[WalshFan88]

Cool! Maybe he spotted Glenn smiling and clapping during KISS' induction, whereas some of the celebs and musicians on the floor looked... well, not so enthusiastic.

Could be.

I think KISS deserves to be in the HOF, but I'm sure some don't. I mean if you have ABBA and Blondie in there, KISS should be. :hilarious:

[Zanny Kingston]

Could be.

I think KISS deserves to be in the HOF, but I'm sure some don't. I mean if you have ABBA and Blondie in there, KISS should be. :hilarious:


Agree WF!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Thanks for posting that, chaim. I agree that Paul's comment about Glenn is pretty cool. Nice that members of bands that are so diametrically opposite can appreciate each other. Also loved Paul's observation about the Eagles writing the "American songbook".

[chaim]

Interesting!!

I've heard Paul say things not directly mentioning the Eagles but things like "we aren't a band who goes out and sits on stools and playing soft rock and looking bored" or something to that affect. I always assumed he was referring to the Eagles.

Glad to hear Paul praise the band.

Paul did mention the Eagles in their X-treme Close Up video. When they are talking about the KISS comics from the 70's, Paul says "You didn't see 'Marvel presents the Eagles'". I like to think of that as a comment referring to KISS's totally different image - not bashing the Eagles.
It's well known anyway that Paul and Gene listen to all kinds of music. They just like to see more than guys in T-shirts and jeans when they go to a concert. At least they keep saying that, but maybe they say it just to hype KISS...

Paul says it here at 0:50 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-luVcMPAC2w

[chaim]

Cool! Maybe he spotted Glenn smiling and clapping during KISS' induction, whereas some of the celebs and musicians on the floor looked... well, not so enthusiastic.

Glenn smiled and clapped? That's very cool! He certainly isn't a musical snob if he did that. In his position in rock/pop music he could easily look down to KISS and sneer. Maybe he's - unlike some celebrities - clever enough to realise that the makeup and show thing is just meant to be fun and it doesn't make the music bad.

Incidentally, when the original KISS made a surprise appearance at Grammy Awards in 1996 (before they had played a note in public), you can see Don Felder clapping and smiling. At 0:54 mark in this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekttWq_XDow

But in his book he kind of puts KISS down. But it's funny, he says that the Eagles didn't move enough on stage (or something like that) when he saw them before he joined. And when he had joined, he says the Eagles didn't need a show, unlike KISS.
Anyway, when I read his book I was thinking that maybe his smile in that clip is more sarcastic than sincere? Timothy's facial expression looks rather neutral.:hilarious:

[chaim]

By the way....
I may have mentioned this before somewhere in this forum. This is a thing that keeps coming up all the time in the KISSFAQ forum - just popped up again. Paul Stanley always says that Shandi by KISS was inspired by Hollies’ version of Bruce Springsteen's “4th of July, Asbury Park (Sandy). As far as I know Paul has never mentioned Joe's Tomorrow, but there's an obvious similarity. Shandi can be found on a KISS album, but Paul is actually the only KISS member who plays or sings on it. Paul plays even some guitar licks in the intro that can be heard in Joe's song. What's even more funny is that there's a song called Tomorrow (also by Paul) on the same album that Shandi is on.:hilarious:

Joe Walsh: Tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--f9y3gNftk

KISS: Shandi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWNYLMUg6B0

[sodascouts]

I'd never thought about it, but they do sound similar!

[WalshFan88]

Pretty similar.

There's actually an Illinois originals band that has a song with a riff that is a direct copy from All Night Long (Joe's tune)... Just different words and slightly different chord progressions. Wish I could remember the link to it on their "MySpace" (that old), it was a friend who shared it with me.

[Elizasong]

I'm reading Paul's book right now. Chiam I'm surprised you didn't mention this little snippet.

On February 18th Casablanca unveiled KISS at a party in Los Angeles. Before they finished playing everybody cleared the room. Too loud, too garish they complained. "Hey we weren't the Eagles. No comfortable volume of songs about being desperate in a desert. We were East coast and proud of it and thought the whole west coast cowboy things was a bit of a joke."

I'm glad years later they all respect each other. I like both bands for their individualities.

[chaim]

I'm reading Paul's book right now. Chiam I'm surprised you didn't mention this little snippet.

On February 18th Casablanca unveiled KISS at a party in Los Angeles. Before they finished playing everybody cleared the room. Too loud, too garish they complained. "Hey we weren't the Eagles. No comfortable volume of songs about being desperate in a desert. We were East coast and proud of it and thought the whole west coast cowboy things was a bit of a joke."

I'm glad years later they all respect each other. I like both bands for their individualities.

I didn't remember that. A rather dumb thing to say, but then again people tend to say dumb and over-simplified things about people they have decided to criticize. KISS is nothing but a show. Eagles is only about being desperate in the desert. And it's always "our" way that is the only right way to do it - and everyone else should do it too. It's rather funny actually.

[Elizasong]

Oh, I took it as he was just being upfront. I think he didn't get the country rock thing but I don't think he was criticizing.

[chaim]

I understand if Paul didn't dig the overall "scene", but here he mentions songs about being desperate in the desert. He has a very broad taste in music, so I'm sure he could still enjoy a good song when he heard one. Randy Newman was part of the East Coast scene, but his songs were far beyond being "desperate in the desert". Neil Young was part of the scene. They way Paul talks about this in the book sure makes it seem like he still thinks that way. But anyway, since Paul started to tweet he's sounded like a cranky old man.:hilarious:

[chaim]

A recent topic in the KISSFAQ forum. I guess you can guess which one is me.:hilarious:
http://www.kissfaq.com/forum11/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=105887

[Sebastian]

I am wearing a KISS t-shirt right now :partytime:

[chaim]

Paul just posted this old picture on his Twitter page. Any Eagles influence there? 8-) https://twitter.com/PaulStanleyLive/status/670467983324618752?s=09

[sodascouts]

lol! Looks like it!

[sad-cafe]

coming to ICT July

Tickets go on sale next week.

We are so there

[sad-cafe]

look up their video to Forever


no makeup no stage, just 4 guys playing and singing and pretty good I should add




We are going to see them in July

[chaim]

look up their video to Forever

no makeup no stage, just 4 guys playing and singing and pretty good I should add


We are going to see them in July

Not even four, but three guys playing! :hilarious: Bruce played bass on that one. It has been said that Paul considered Gene too heavy-handed for his ballads. Having said that, according to Bruce he tried to play like Gene whenever he played bass!

[WalshFan88]

Lookie, Gene opens his big mouth again.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2016/05/in-a-quest-to-stay-relevant-gene-simmons-now-has-some-thoughts-about-princes-death/

I personally take offense at this quote:


“Bowie was the most tragic of all because it was real sickness. All the other ones were a choice,” Simmons said. “Drugs killed [Prince]. What do you think, he died from a cold?”

I'm sorry, but I don't think Glenn, for example, died of a drug overdose or drug related illness. Scott Weiland yes, Lemmy Kilmister maybe (or alcohol abuse), but he's lumped all of the celebrity recent deaths together outside of Bowie. Glenn Frey died of pneumonia due to a low immune system because of his RA meds. Merle Haggard died of pneumonia. Maurice White died in his sleep of Parkinson's. Paul Kantner died of sepsis. On and on. David Bowie did die of cancer. Keith Emerson committed suicide.

I thought it was rather rude of Simmons. Not just for lumping everyone together saying it was because of drugs, but also for being so heartless about Prince's death too, so soon after.

[EagleLady]

Gene is an asshole always has been. that quote comes off as so uncaring and heartless, if only he understood that addiction is a serious disease.

[Freypower]

Lookie, Gene opens his big mouth again.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2016/05/in-a-quest-to-stay-relevant-gene-simmons-now-has-some-thoughts-about-princes-death/

I personally take offense at this quote:



I'm sorry, but I don't think Glenn, for example, died of a drug overdose or drug related illness. Scott Weiland yes, Lemmy Kilmister maybe (or alcohol abuse), but he's lumped all of the celebrity recent deaths together outside of Bowie. Glenn Frey died of pneumonia due to a low immune system because of his RA meds. Merle Haggard died of pneumonia. Maurice White died in his sleep of Parkinson's. Paul Kantner died of sepsis. On and on. David Bowie did die of cancer.

I thought it was rather rude of Simmons. Not just for lumping everyone together saying it was because of drugs, but also for being so heartless about Prince's death too, so soon after.


The only 'choice' if you want to be insensitive enough to view it like that, was Keith Emerson who committed suicide. We don't yet know what killed Prince.

[WalshFan88]

The only 'choice' if you want to be insensitive enough to view it like that, was Keith Emerson who committed suicide. We don't yet know what killed Prince.

Absolutely.

[chaim]

Here's Gene's apology. It's from his Twitter page: http://www.kissfaq.com/forum11/download/file.php?id=60897&mode=view

Gene is a good person, but sometimes I wish he'd just shut up about some things in public. IMO he's a bit like "I say the ugly truth out loud, which no one else has the guts to say because of political correctness." And it's well known that Gene loves to say things that shock and irritate. But he should bring at least one extra color into his black and white thinking about some issues.

Now Gene's wife has slammed Paul Stanley on her Twitter page for slamming Gene on his Twitter page. It's hilarious. Shannon doesn't think that Gene was right, but she feels that Paul was pointing at him and throwing him under the bus, which, according to her, friends and especially partners of 40 years don't do.

It's been pointed out many times on the KISSFAQ forum that Gene is very selective about who he criticizes about drugs. His wife was a drug user at some point. KISS's manager of 20 years, so I've heard, even imported/sold drugs at some point. But that seems to be fine with Gene. But it's probably pointless to say this because, as has been pointed out above, Gene was soooo wrong when he said the other deaths were drug related.

I love Gene, but sometimes I wish he kept his mouth shut. :brickwall:

[WalshFan88]

And now Paul has apologizes on Gene's behalf. Then, Gene's wife Shannon didn't like that Paul did that to Gene after they've been partners for 40 years. Too bad Shannon, your husband is a liability when he opens his mouth and can do more harm than good for KISS's image, which is why Paul needed to say something. It's called cover your @ss. Paul has always seemed like a stand up guy to me and I'm way more of a fan of him than Gene. He wouldn't have been dumb enough to think that way, let alone say that. That said, KISS to me lives and dies with the Alive era early music. I never cared for much of their stuff other than Alive and Destroyer and maybe Love Gun. I just am not a superfan.

As far as the whole "I speak the truth thing when everyone is PC" stuff sounds like something he'd say and also Donald Trump, who is also a buffoon. I'll take political correctness and oversensitivity in America any day over absolute narcissistic rudeness like Simmons, Trump or Nugent for that matter. They all need to vacation together on a land far, far away lol.

Perhaps a part of Gene is a down to earth guy but he sure doesn't show it by saying things like this. Addiction is a real problem affecting real people and he should show more sympathy. Same for people who don't get depression or mental illness and brush it off heartlessly. People aren't always in as much control of that stuff as some would think. It's saddening that in 2016 it still happens.

[chaim]

Gene is an interesting character, because in public he makes himself easy to hate. And he probably even loves that. On the other hand he has some qualities I respect very much that are not that common among celebrities. One of these qualities is that Gene is the kind of person who does charity work and doesn't tell anyone - whereas some celebrities want everyone to know when they've "done something good". I'm sure Gene would be embarrassed to read something like "Gene Simmons: A musician, a philanthropist" (which seems to be a sought-after title these days) on Wikipedia. I respect that as much as I hate his big mouth on some issues.

Another quality I like about him is that when another celebrity slams KISS or Gene in the media or social media, it doesn't change the way Gene sees them, and he doesn't slam them back (at least if he respects them). Radiohead, Eddie Vedder and Sylvester Stallone come to mind. Gene can dish it out, but he can also take it. (one of the many areas where Gene and Paul are very different)

[OntheBorder74]

Gene is quite the conundrum, he can be quite gracious then say really dumb things but you know he's a good person and I feel he was more responsible for Kiss's image then Paul in terms of characters he had sketched out when he met Eddie Kramer for the demos sometime in 73. His grandiose ideas is what has kept Kiss alive and relevant in the 70s when musically they weren't the best; ultimately they were a fun band and Gene needs to be more fun IMO

[chaim]

Gene is quite the conundrum, he can be quite gracious then say really dumb things but you know he's a good person and I feel he was more responsible for Kiss's image then Paul in terms of characters he had sketched out when he met Eddie Kramer for the demos sometime in 73. His grandiose ideas is what has kept Kiss alive and relevant in the 70s when musically they weren't the best; ultimately they were a fun band and Gene needs to be more fun IMO

I think Gene is often very funny, but people decide to throw their sense of humor out the window and take him seriously. He also makes fun of himself. One of my favorite Gene quotes, where he made fun of himself, is from when he went to see Paul Stanley's solo band backstage and said "Aren't you all glad to see me?". Another one is "I forgot your question because I was fascinated by what I was saying". The guy can really laugh at himself, and he can also laugh along when someone makes a good joke about him.

[chaim]

The thought had never crossed my mind, but I just listened to a more "recent" live version of one of Peter Criss's KISS songs, and I went "this would sound cool with Don Henley singing".

This is the original KSS version; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbxQhjaZDBo

(Too fast to work for Don IMO)

A slightly slower live version from Peter's solo show (from 1995): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXx9IotHsE4

I think it's the way Peter sings it in that live version (with totally different lyrics) that made me think of Don. You know, the first phrase ends on a high note and the second on a low note.

[chaim]

I hate Tommy Thayer in Ace Frehley's makeup (otherwise I like him), but he seems to have good taste in music. 8)

ATP: If you were alone on a desert island, what 3 key songs would you bring with you?

Tommy Thayer: “Definitely I would have a Beatles song. I am a Beatles freak; I think they are the best band of all time. Maybe, even though it’s a little dark, I think Eleanor Rigby is one of the most amazing song ever written; it would that one.

Then I would go with something from the Eagles because I love them, so Tequila Sunrise fits the bill. And, in the spirit of rock and roll, I admire Alice Cooper, he’s always been a rebel and so I would bring “School’s Out.”

http://www.atimelyperspective.com/blog/2017/02/24/interview-kiss-guitarist-tommy-thayer-shares-his-grail-songs-and-more.html