The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

[Elizasong]

Hello,

I'm beginning this in an off-topic discussion area. After you read please move if you feel it belongs somewhere else.

So the Eagles don't like fans watching the show through their camera phones. I've seen people do this for an entire song. It's not for me and I can see their point.

I'm just now watching an Elton John concert on AXS TV. He was singing Saturday Night's Alright and he has a slew of audience members around his piano. I can see a little bit of the getting intimate with the audience but there were people standing right in front of him holding up their camera phone for the whole song. Watching it on TV it was fine because the broadcast cameras moved around so I could see him but if I was in the audience at that concert I'd be pissed.

Of course the Eagles don't go to that length and I'm glad they don't because holding up a camera can be distracting to someone behind you but in this case it was ridiculous for the audience who were staring at people standing right in front of Elton John. :eyebrow:

[Witchy Woman]

I agree, it's annoying when people hold up their phones and try to take pictures all night. I don't have a problem with someone sneaking a few pics here and there. I understand wanting to commemorate the concert and preserve memories, and I do it myself. I am also mindful of those around me, and it's a shame those that are ignorant and rude necessitate such actions from the band.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

The Eagles are certainly not the only group that cracks down on cameras, but they are in the minority. The way I look at it, the Eagles have always been a band who cares, really cares about their fans, and during a concert, those in the audience in particular. They work hard to put on a stellar performance every night. Then they see a few ruin the experience for others. At least in the front rows and on the sides near the stage, they have the best view of people having to bob and weave to see around the cameras or people standing, and they can see the expressions of irritation on the faces of those trying to see.

All that being said, it feels to me that the camera issue is more than blocking the view of others. I know for an usher in dim lighting, it's difficult to distinguish between those taking a picture and those taking video. I would like a few pictures at each concert for my own memories. The last two shows I went to, a person was allowed to take a few photos, but not a constant stream of them. I didn't because knowing how these guys feel about it, it didn't feel right. I guess because even at a show where cameras were allowed, when I held my phone at shoulder level to keep from blocking the view of those behind me, Glenn shook his head at me. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

[Brooke]

Es, I watched that Elton John concert last night too and noticed that! I was thinking, I'm glad it was only for that one song, because they did surround him on the stage. You would have thought they wouldn't have been allowed to be in between him and the stage because no one in the audience on the floor could see him! You know everyone paid big bucks to go to that show in Vegas! I would have been upset! Great show, btw!

Anyways, I was shocked to also see the people on stage with their cameras out taking live photos and videos too! I wonder if these people were selected or were from the front row?

I do understand the Eagles side of it all, just don't really agree with it. But when you put it like VA did, I do. I guess there's two side to every story! Maybe even, as Don says, three! :lol:

[WalshFan88]

I can understand not wanting to have someone holding up a phone all night. And now they do it with iPads and tablets!!!!! Seriously.

But I do think pictures here and there should be allowed at all concerts. I'm fine with no videography and no filming or audio recording. But pictures are a great way to share with friends and keep for personal memories. I agree on no flash, that's fine...

But being scolded for just having your phone out in plain sight in your hands sitting down before the show even starts just pisses me off. I was scolded in St. Louis last year for just having my phone on and in my lap doing Facebook while the house lights were on and no band onstage. That's ridiculous.

There's a difference between making sure everyone has a good experience with no annoyances and just being overly controlling.

Needless to say, my phone got put on silent and stowed away in my jeans pocket for the rest of the evening - way before the band took the stage.

My dad was going to be a rebel and have his phone out and take pics anyway but I insisted that he didn't as he didn't realize how "funny" Eagles security was about it and if we got kicked out I'd be REALLY pissed off - at them AND him. :hilarious:

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I agree, WF. If the guys aren't coming on stage until 8:10, I should be able to check the score of the hockey game until then. Or baseball game. If nothing else, it makes the time go by faster. The time between 7:30 and when they come out on stage seems to take a DECADE or two. Plus, I've not owned a watch since 2004, and the phone is my clock.

Speaking of issues, our guys are lucky to only have the few issues they have. Here's an article posted in Pittsburgh today about the recent Kenny Chesney concert at Heinz Field.

http://www.pittpunk.org/save-city-ban-concert/

[WalshFan88]

The KC concert was a MESS!!! That was downright disgusting.

Luke Bryan just played there at Heinz Field and they said they did a better job of cleanup this time....

[Elizasong]

Wow!! That KC concert sounds like a big mess! I agree they should make stricter rules and not such a free for all.

Thanks for everyones feedback. I also agree restricting phones before the show starts is excessive but I guess they figure turn them off from the start rather then having to make sure all phones are off during the show. I'm sure if someone had an emergency they would make an exception.

[Witchy Woman]

That's a damn shame. This happens every year at my local country music station's concert. Piles of trash everywhere, underage drinking, throwing up and urinating everywhere. Not to mention the public sex acts. The concert is free, so every loser who managed to snag a ticket is going to show up. I went a couple of years ago because a friend didn't want to go by herself. I will never do it again. Bunch of filthy, disgusting slobs.

[Brooke]

Speaking of issues, our guys are lucky to only have the few issues they have. Here's an article posted in Pittsburgh today about the recent Kenny Chesney concert at Heinz Field.

http://www.pittpunk.org/save-city-ban-concert/

Wow! I haven't noticed any of this at any of the concerts I've been to, thank heavens! Sounds like 'country stars' need to shape up! I'm pretty much disgusted with most country music these days. All they seem to sing about is getting drunk, partying, or girls with not much on!

[sodascouts]

Sounds like 'country stars' need to shape up! I'm pretty much disgusted with most country music these days. All they seem to sing about is getting drunk, partying, or girls with not much on!

Unfortunately, that trend is not confined to country!

[VAisForEagleLovers]

That trend is why I mostly listen to Contemporary Christian! The Message, Classic Rewind, and Classic Vinyl are basically the only stations I listen to...unless there's a ballgame on :wink:

[sodascouts]

Regarding the phone issue, I just saw that the Eagles are playing the "Phones 4u Arena" in Manchester tonight. Ironic! lol

[MaryCalifornia]

I wanted to post this guy's tweet in this thread, but I don't know how to do it. I think it's hilarious and could be the start of something...fans drawing the Eagles in concert - stick figures even better - and posting it to social media, because no cameras allowed. The only rule is it has to be drawn and posted DURING the show, and you should put the date and location on it.

It's like his 19th tweet down at this point in time. He has several Eagles show tweets on there.

https://twitter.com/BarryBadKnees

Soda - Phones 4U arena - that's hilarious!!! Phones 4U not going to be happy about the $$ they paid for the naming rights tonight when everyone is being told they can't use phones, even before the show!!!

[thelastresort]

https://twitter.com/BarryBadKnees/status/481150571848953857

[MaryCalifornia]

Thanks TLR!!

Am I the only one who thinks this is funny?

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Regarding the phone issue, I just saw that the Eagles are playing the "Phones 4u Arena" in Manchester tonight. Ironic! lol

I thought it was tomorrow night? It is ironic, though!

[sodascouts]

https://twitter.com/BarryBadKnees/status/481150571848953857

LOL! That's hilarious!!

ETA: VA is right; the Phones 4u date is tomorrow. My mistake.

[Freypower]

They are also playing Allphones Arena in Sydney.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

LOL! That's hilarious!!

ETA: VA is right; the Phones 4u date is tomorrow. My mistake.

You had me all excited for a moment that it was Wednesday already. God knows it feels like I've worked three days this week.

[ktdids]

Thanks TLR!!

Am I the only one who thinks this is funny?
MC you are not alone in thinking these are funny! I don't even tweet and I think it's hilarious, as well as some of the remarks following the tweets of the drawings! I think someone said that one of the drawings had them all without any hair, and well Don does have some hair you know!

[Glennsallnighter]

They also played in various 02 arenas! O2 is also a phone company.

Mixed feelings about the whole issue. As a semi pro photographer, I do regret not having the opportunity to take good clear pics of all of the guys performing, and for the 5 European shows I've been right there at the front. I'd love to have a pictorial record of my memories too.

However I DO see how constantly taking pics can take away from the enjoyment of both myself and other fans. And it is just not fair to constantly block viewers behind you. Problem is, it's all or nothing. Either you will take loads of pics or no pics. If people took just say 5 it would not be as big an intrusion on others. But to have say 15,000 people snapping all night has to be distracting for that band and the fans. Then there's the effect of the flash.

However it is ridiculous to ban the use of phones before the show or during the interval. People do have lives to lead. Families get in touch, and the odd crisis DOES happen. people expect you to be contactable now. One guy I saw in Dublin had 2 strikes before the show even began!!

[thelastresort]

That's odd, I never encountered any outright ban on phones at the O2 outwith the times the guys were on stage.

[Tiffanny Twisted]

there was an article in aarp magazine about "thinking that snapping a view will preserve the moment". It was very interesting

yes we all like to have a "snapshot" of the guys when we go to a concert but living in the moment has its benefits.

I find people who hold up their I pads to take pictures the most annoying.

[Brooke]

https://twitter.com/BarryBadKnees/status/481150571848953857


MC, it's :hilarious:

I think they've taken it too far. Is there any other band in any genre out there that does this?

[SoaringRockyMountainWay]

I saw the Eagles in Milwaukee and Auburn Hills and we were allowed to take pictures but not video. I took a couple pictures at the beginning of both concerts. In Milwaukee my uncle got busted for taking a video of the beginning of Lyin' Eyes and security wouldn't let him take his phone out the rest of the night. Why did they allow pictures at the beginning of the tour but not at the recent dates?

[WalshFan88]

I think they've taken it too far. Is there any other band in any genre out there that does this?

IMO they took it too far a long while ago. It's only getting more controlling. While it didn't ruin my show it certainly put me in a bad mood when I was harped on for checking Facebook before the show started.

I don't know of any other band who is this controlling of their fans. New bands and other classic bands encourage photo taking and social media. The guys need to get with the times. Pictures, texting, facebooking, etc is the "in" thing and they are coming off as egotistic power-hungry fuddy duddys by having the policies that they do. Just like DH and his stance on internet and social media. Don't get me started. :hilarious:

[sodascouts]

I've been to several venues that enforce the standard back-of-the-ticket rule of no cameras or video, but no other artists that I've seen make such a big to-do over it (admittedly, my experiences are limited to Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks, and Lindsey Buckingham besides Eagles shows lol, though I have seen Bonnie Raitt, Marc Cohn, and a few others who've never said a thing. Chris Isaak actually encouraged it at the show I went to, totally mugging for the cameras).

I did hear that Prince is worse about it. In the past, he's gone so far as to threaten to sue fans who posted photos and videos of him that they'd taken at concerts.

What really blows my mind is when they tell you to put away your phone an hour before the show starts. The first time that happened to me was the LA Forum, and I thought it was a mistake - overzealous security. I told the guy, "I understand that it's rude to text during the show and I won't, but it's still 45 minutes before showtime." He was insistent. When I was told the same thing in New Orleans, I was flabbergasted. That is just way over the top. If the Eagles want to get a jump start on eliminating the phones so the guards don't have to tell people to put them away during the first song, I understand that - but it would be sufficient to have them start telling people to put away phones 15 minutes before showtime, not a freaking HOUR.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Some articles I found on the discussion:

This is about the idea in general:
http://www.popphoto.com/how-to/2013/07/why-camera-bans-concerts-arent-insane-just-misguided

This article has some artists who have banned pictures:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/7-musicians-who-would-like-you-to-put-away-the-camera-or-else-theyll-do-it-for-you/

This is a list of annoying concert behavior published by The Rolling Stone. Guess what's #1?
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-10-most-annoying-concert-behaviors-20130114

Here's one from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/26/tech/social-media/apparently-this-matters-concert-phones/

This venue says that cameras are allowed, but some artists do not allow cameras. They don't list who, just that it happens. As a side note and completely off topic, this venue is hosting a Buffet concert and you can win tickets on SiriusXM:
http://www.jonesbeach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=53

From The Wall Street Journal(from 2010):
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704129204575506281834570988

From a random venue, trying to make a point:
http://feitheatres.com/somerville-theatre/events/

That's from three pages of search results, there were a lot more pages than this...

ETA: Another about Prince:
http://chicagoist.com/2013/07/01/when_prince_says_no_photos_prince_m.php

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I forgot to mention that the Seger concert I went to in 2011 did not allow cameras or pictures of any type and security was very zealous in enforcing it. Amazingly, I had people around me complaining and we were so far back on the floor, we couldn't see him. I have no idea what they thought they'd get a picture of.

The Seger concert last year allowed pictures, and I've mentioned before that even being three rows from the stage, I couldn't see the man when he was directly in front of me, sitting at the piano. Well, I could see him through the tiny screens of the phones of the woman in front of me and the one in front of her.

[WalshFan88]

One of those articles states The Black Crowes banned photos. Not the case when I saw them in 2013. They (the band) even saw us taking pictures and never pointed or acted like they weren't comfortable with it.

Like it or not, times are changing and mobile devices (phones/tablets), social networking, texting is the new norm and while you don't have to do it or like it, you should respect it IMO....

As I said I'm not saying it's ok to film, take pictures non-stop, text non-stop, or use flash but the fact they are slapping people with warnings for having their phones out or taking the occasional pic is really stupid. And while I think holding up an iPad or tablet looks silly, it is slowly becoming the even newer way to take pics. And it's FAR more intrusive than your average 5 inch smartphone.

Gone are the days of holding up lighters for the encores, it is now smartphones. And I'm ok with that - and I'm one of the biggest stuck in the past classic rock fans you'll find. This is one of the only things were I think the Eagles could take some cues from newer bands as well as their contemporaries - welcome the new era of social media not just for concertgoers taking pictures but as a way to connect with fans and also share news.

I welcome new technology with open arms and I think to be that stuck in the past only makes them look bad.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

The Beacon doesn't allow photos regardless of who the artist is:
http://www.beacontheatre.com/faq.html

[sodascouts]

Yeah, some venues are really hardcore - some will not even let you bring cameras in to the venue, much less take photos with them. I had to go back to the car with mine one time in 2003. I forget which venue.... maybe it was the one in Columbus... I went to so many Mac shows that year, lol. Indeed, I got harassed by security in Moline, IL at another Fleetwood Mac concert for taking photos thanks to vigorous policy enforcement by a venue. The Toyota Center in Houston won't let you bring cameras in. The list goes on and on.

The phones are more problematic because they have camera functionality, but banning them from venues is out of the question. They're too much a part of people's lives. Can you imagine a venue turning away everyoneone who came to the door with a cell phone? "Take that back to your car. No phones allowed." They'd be saying that to THOUSANDS of people. It would be a fiasco.

Venues banning cameras is nothing new. However, I think the difference is that what people begrudgingly accept as a corporate venue policy becomes harder to swallow when it's band policy. Logistically, it's the same; it's just different on an emotional level.

[WalshFan88]

Agreed.

[Elizasong]

I just went to a concert at Highland Ballroom in the city. The artist Beth Hart was phenomenal but the picture and video taking was out of hand!! People were taking group shots in front of the stage as the artist was performing!! I'm glad there are some venues that ban it.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

An article that quasi-explains one of the most annoying concert experiences... Free Bird.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/yelling-free-bird/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=referral

[Prettymaid]

This is the first I've heard about Eagles concert security forcing you to put your phone away 30 minutes to an hour before showtime. The Eagles, or their individual band members, have done things to tick me off in the past, but this takes the cake. I agree with WF - they are on some kind of power trip to do this. What other reason is there?

[Freypower]

This is the first I've heard about Eagles concert security forcing you to put your phone away 30 minutes to an hour before showtime. The Eagles, or their individual band members, have done things to tick me off in the past, but this takes the cake. I agree with WF - they are on some kind of power trip to do this. What other reason is there?

My husband is of the opinion that when you buy a ticket to an Eagles concert you are entering into a contract whereby the venue becomes 'theirs' & they set the terms & conditions on the night of the show. This presumably includes the right to tell you to turn off your phone before showtime. I thought this was drawing a long bow but that is one way of looking at it.

[Prettymaid]

My husband is of the opinion that when you buy a ticket to an Eagles concert you are entering into a contract whereby the venue becomes 'theirs' & they set the terms & conditions on the night of the show. This presumably includes the right to tell you to turn off your phone before showtime. I thought this was drawing a long bow but that is one way of looking at it.

My understanding is that it is not the venue, nor it's personnel, that is setting this 'term and condition', but rather the Eagles and their staff. The person who comes out to state the 'standing rule' is definitely with the band - not the venue. I've had the pleasure :yuck: of meeting that guy.

ETA: FP, I just realized I misread your post. I understand what your husband is saying. Either way, I think it's bull:censored:

[DJ]

I've seen this happen at a lot of concerts, so I guess our band isn't alone in this. We'd all love to have pictures of them but then someone would go too far and boom, it's in a tabloid or somewhere else. Also I would image if there are flashes that it may interrupt their train of thought or music.

[Freypower]

I've seen this happen at a lot of concerts, so I guess our band isn't alone in this. We'd all love to have pictures of them but then someone would go too far and boom, it's in a tabloid or somewhere else. Also I would image if there are flashes that it may interrupt their train of thought or music.

I don't see how it's going too far to take a photo of a rock band during a concert. It isn't a private shot of them. They are doing their job. Why would a tabloid publish a rock concert photo?

[DJ]

Not necessarily the concert itself but perhaps something that happens on the sideline or something not scripted, who knows. What is the reason then they don't want pictures taken or videos recorded if it isn't that they don't want content of the concert or whats happening there showen elsewhere? Does anyone know the real reason behind no camera's or phone's allowed? I guess I could understand not wanting bootlegged concert video's.. And perhaps I should explain too far meaning someone gets out of hand with the camera such as doing selfie's with the band,etc. interrupting the venue, not just taking a picture of the concert.

[Freypower]

Not necessarily the concert itself but perhaps something that happens on the sideline or something not scripted, who knows. What is the reason then they don't want pictures taken or videos recorded if it isn't that they don't want content of the concert or whats happening there showen elsewhere? Does anyone know the real reason behind no camera's or phone's allowed? I guess I could understand not wanting bootlegged concert video's.. And perhaps I should explain too far meaning someone gets out of hand with the camera such as doing selfie's with the band,etc. interrupting the venue, not just taking a picture of the concert.

Sorry, but how many audience members get anywhere near the sidlelines or see anything unscripted? I assume by selfie you mean turning the camera around to include yourself along with a band member. I don't frankly know why anyone would want to do that and what difference it would make even if it was to occur (I have never seen such a photo). I also don't know what you mean by interrupting the venue. How can taking a photo affect the venue or the staging of the show except possibly regarding the use of flash photography?

The bottom line is they (the Eagles) have never given any reasons why they won't allow photos. They have only adopted this attitude on the current tour. Previously they didn't seem to mind that much as long as it wasn't too excessive. I can only think it has something to do with image rights in the case of photography & certainly copyright in the case of video.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Not necessarily the concert itself but perhaps something that happens on the sideline or something not scripted, who knows. What is the reason then they don't want pictures taken or videos recorded if it isn't that they don't want content of the concert or whats happening there showen elsewhere? Does anyone know the real reason behind no camera's or phone's allowed? I guess I could understand not wanting bootlegged concert video's.. And perhaps I should explain too far meaning someone gets out of hand with the camera such as doing selfie's with the band,etc. interrupting the venue, not just taking a picture of the concert.

DJ, yes, the selfie's were ALWAYS annoying, and when they realized they couldn't get themselves and the band in the picture, they'd hand me the camera and ask me to take them. This happened to me twice during the HOTE tour. I did it and quickly because it was the only way to get them to sit down and stay out of my way. It happened to me twice in one concert at Henley's concert in Atlantic City last year. It's the downside of going to a concert by yourself, I guess. People find you more 'approachable'.

As far as why they don't want the photos, my opinion is that it's more than one reason. Other than annoying fans behind the one taking the photo by sticking a camera up in their view, I can't guess as to why they don't want photos taken. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it's obviously something they feel strongly about.

[Brooke]

It would be a great question to ask if anyone ever got the chance!

I do seem to remember Don saying sometime back that the constant flashes bother his eyes. But if people would not use them......

[DJ]

Maybe the answer is just because they can say no camera's or phones, I guess since they are putting on the show they can say or do whatever they like for whatever reason they want. I know at one concert they singer did stop the show and say please no more flashes, who knows...If anyone gets the opportunity to ask they should and let us know.

[sodascouts]

I think one reason may be they don't like how they look or sound in videos, so they want to keep them offline because they're embarrassed by them. The only way to ensure they don't get online is to ensure they're not taken in the first place (or at least, minimize the videos by cracking down on phones and cameras).

That affects still photos because the vast majority of cameras and phones can do both, so they demand you put away the camera / phone regardless of whether or not you planned to video... just in case.

The above is all complete speculation on my part!

[Freypower]

I think one reason may be they don't like how they look or sound in videos, so they want to keep them offline because they're embarrassed by them. The only way to ensure they don't get online is to ensure they're not taken in the first place (or at least, minimize the videos by cracking down on phones and cameras).

That affects still photos because that vast majority of cameras and phones can do both, so they demand you put away the camera regardless of whether or not you planned to video... just in case.

The above is all complete speculation on my part!

As I have said on numerous occasions if they don't like how they look or sound in bootleg videos they could do us the honour of releasing more concert DVDs. They are well overdue to give us another one. I thought this tour would be perfect but so far, deafening silence.

If they don't want amateur photography then employ a professional & put professional photos on that joke of a website. It has now got to the stage where on the European tour there was hardly even any press photogrpahy.

[Freypower]

Maybe the answer is just because they can say no camera's or phones, I guess since they are putting on the show they can say or do whatever they like for whatever reason they want. I know at one concert they singer did stop the show and say please no more flashes, who knows...If anyone gets the opportunity to ask they should and let us know.

I did allude to this in an earlier post. During a show the band sets the terms & conditions & they decide what can & can't be done.

As for 'asking' about it... good luck with that. The only band member who would be likely to do a meet & greet would be Joe & I think he would evade the question or mumble something about 'policy'.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Another article that makes it clear that taking video at concerts is unwelcome, and doesn't discuss the copyright issue. Merely the performers and those around a person. If #5 could be enforced, it would definitely stop completely! :rofl:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-10-commandments-smartphone-usage-concerts-20130730-story.html

This is an article from 2011 that discussed Apple flirting with the idea of shutting phones off when in concert situations. It's now 2014, and obviously Apple never did this, but it amazes me they even considered it.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/industry_news/apple_to_disable_iphone_concert_filming.html

This is a debate site and it's interesting that the people who are the type to use technology to debate are still the ones who think phones should be banned at concerts. Not just photos and videos, but the phones themselves.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-cell-phones-and-cameras-be-banned-during-concerts

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Thanks for the research, VA. In the first article, I also like #9 ...

9. Those who insist on recording entire performances shall inform the person behind him in advance, and allow this person the opportunity to switch seats. This process shall be repeated until an amenable (and taller) soul -- or the back of the venue -- is found.

And the results and comments on that debate forum are very interesting.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I want to say upfront that my search for these articles (and those above) was a generic one like 'using cell phones at concerts'. I didn't search on a slant one way or the other.

This one makes a great point about why a performer might stop a song and ask people to stop, even if it's not the best way to handle it.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/2013/07/31/207686810/the-good-listener-are-bands-right-to-scold-fans-with-cell-phones

This one uses the Eagles somewhat recent performance in New Orleans to ask the question, and the results are interesting (overwhelming against the use of phones at concerts)
http://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2014/02/cell_phone_bans_at_concerts_ap.html

This is by a news station in DC:
http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/339860/top-10-reasons-its-still-not-ok-to-use-your-smartphone-at-concerts.htm

This one is a proponent of cell phone picture taking (and video), although #10 implies if you ARE a phone, then putting the thing down is the thing to do:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2013/sep/02/10-reasons-use-mobile-phone-gig

This one counters each argument in the article above:
http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/339860/top-10-reasons-its-still-not-ok-to-use-your-smartphone-at-concerts.htm

I'm surprised by the sheer number of results to this and the different articles. No way can I post them all, but in general, it seems popular opinion is that it's selfish and rude to use your phone for any reason during a concert. I'm sure the average 25-year-old disagrees, but then, they are quite used to missing out on real life and living in their phones.

[Brooke]

VA, loved #5 too! :lol:

[WalshFan88]

This is the first I've heard about Eagles concert security forcing you to put your phone away 30 minutes to an hour before showtime. The Eagles, or their individual band members, have done things to tick me off in the past, but this takes the cake. I agree with WF - they are on some kind of power trip to do this. What other reason is there?

Agreed. To me it screams power trip, and control issues. I'm not saying the Eagles are the only ones, but it's certainly not something I've experienced at other concerts.

It might depend on what venue you are at and what kind of show but most rock n' roll shows are loud and people are standing, so having your phone on isn't an issue. If you are seeing someone like Barry Manilow, or perhaps Merle Haggard in a sit down venue, perhaps keeping your phone in your pocket is best. But I like to think of the Eagles as a Rock N' Roll band in the same vain as say, the Stones or Aerosmith.... And more high energy.

And I'm not one who lives by my phone, far from it. But not being able to check it before the show, or take one or two pictures for a souvenir is totally ridiculous. People need to get with the times and realize that smartphones, tablets, gadgets, social media, etc are the future and that they need to get on the bandwagon or simply be left in the dust.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

And then there's Tim McGraw...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2014/07/18/tim-mcgraw-has-audience-trouble-at-a-concert-thats-nothing-new/?tid=hpModule_1f58c93a-8a7a-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e&hpid=z13

It begs the question of why he goes out into the audience if he doesn't want people grabbing at him....

[Brooke]

Yeah, he's pretty much asking for it, but to grab and hold on......pretty stupid!

These stars try to be fan friendly and the fans go too far. Imo!

[WalshFan88]

Now that's taking it WAY over the line. Totally agree with throwing them out.

[DJ]

Just read where Peter Frampton interrupted his concert grabbed a concert goers cell phone and threw it into the audience! The person wouldn't stop videoing when they told them to.

[sodascouts]

Dang! Hope he doesn't get sued.

[Victim of Love]

Here's the Frampton article for anyone who hasn't seen it. It will be interesting to here more about this.

https://music.yahoo.com/blogs/music-news/what-made-peter-frampton-confiscate-a-concertgoers-camera-phone-and-throw-it-002452952.html

[MaryCalifornia]

This should be interesting. The Ryder Cup (US vs. Europe in golf) is banning everyone from taking photos or video (however, texting and talking on the phones is allowed) This would be like telling fans in an NFL stadium not to take pics or video, except instead of a stadium, the fans are spread out over 18 holes. Good luck enforcing this stupid rule! The article mentions that Kate Bush asked for this last week, too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/rory-mcilroy/11066747/Rory-McIlroys-love-of-selfies-could-land-him-in-hot-water-at-Ryder-Cup.html

[VAisForEagleLovers]

It will be interesting to see how that works.

[prayfordaylight]

Cell phones are actually banned from many golf tournaments in the states or they designate special cell phone areas on the course for spectators. They do bag searches and pat downs and will kick people out for using them.

I don't know the extent to which they're banned at European courses.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

This article is about our guys at the Grand Rapids show.

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/09/the_eagles_cell_phone_ban_at_v.html

[WalshFan88]

Biting my tongue. :hilarious:

[prayfordaylight]

Although I feel it's a bit draconian to not be able to check your phone during intermission, I've had a few of my last concert experiences ruined by devices blocking my view all night that I've come around on the whole thing.

iPads/tablets shouldn't be allowed period. They're the worst culprit.

[Brooke]

I think they are being too hard about it, but, knowing their strict enforcement, if you need to use your phone just go to the lobby!

The last line says it best:

" A better approach might be for fans and band to use common sense and, you know, just take it easy." :wink:

[VAisForEagleLovers]

HaHa, Brooke, we know common sense is rare!

At both shows last weekend I was able to use my phone up until show time and during intermission, for which I was grateful.

[prayfordaylight]

HaHa, Brooke, we know common sense is rare!

At both shows last weekend I was able to use my phone up until show time and during intermission, for which I was grateful.

Hopefully that's the case tonight. Taking my dad tonight and he was a little cranky when I told him the rules (and that we have to follow them sitting right by the stage).

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Getting ready to watch some baseball and just saw a commercial for T Mobile. They were filming a concert, actually filming people in the audience filming the concert, and promoting this as a good thing. Something people can do when they buy their phones and use their network. They honestly think this is a good thing!! I mean, look at this! I took a picture of the TV, and so it's not the best picture, but still, pretend you're in row 20 and trying to see the stage. What do you see? If you want to see the band, you need to view it through the phones in front of you, or watch it on YouTube the next day. They are encouraging this...

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/vernakrose/misc/IMG_20140914_131516087_zpskpimf8ta.jpg

This is their most recent Facebook ad... They didn't bother drawing in a band because hey, you wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/vernakrose/misc/tmobile_zps97b9c6f8.jpg

[EagleLady]

I can see how that would be a problem, but People really do need their phones in case of Emergency, Maybe use one that has no camera?

[Brooke]

A 'no camera' phone is few and far between these days! lol

[Topkat]

It seemed to me at Sat. night show most people were respectful & didn't use the phones or take pictures, but there are always a few people that sneak some pics in. At least that was the case where I was sitting & I had full view of the front sections, as I was on the side but close.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Today at work, I moved from the location where I'd been sitting since March and back to the area where I sat when I first moved here. I mentioned that I wouldn't be in the rest of the wee, and so of course someone asked me where the Eagles were playing this time. Someone who is new to the group listened as others explained my Eagles adventures, and a conversation ensued. Someone asked why they hadn't seen any pictures from me of the concerts. So I mentioned 'the rule' about cameras, even with cell phones.

The new person said, "What a great idea! I wish other bands would do that." Others were shocked by that and one said, "Everyone takes photos with their phones." The guy said that he had determined he'd not go to any more concerts, because the last one he went to, the guy in front of him used an iPad to take photos and video and it blocked his view the entire evening. He said he and the lady behind him both asked the guy to put it down, and the guy said 'no'. Apparently security was uninterested in doing anything about it. His exact words as he ended the conversation? "Everyone using cell phones and tablets has completely ruined concert experiences for my wife and I. It's way too much money to spend and only see the artist through someone else's lens." He then asked me if the Eagles would be coming to Louisville anytime soon.

[sodascouts]

I think the problem is when heavy-handed security becomes even more distracting than the phones / cameras / etc.

The past couple of shows have been better about this, though - let's hope the trend continues!

[prayfordaylight]

If you're not going to ban cell phones, at least ban tablets. Those seem to be the worst offenders because they seem to care least about blocking the view of those around them and the block far more people than a phone does.

Friday night at the Eagles show a guy down the row from me not only took out a tablet but left the flash on. Not only were security on him in seconds, the rest of the row pointed towards the guy to make sure the right person got busted.

[Brooke]

Funny, pfd!

I can't believe people have the nerve to take a tablet and try to use it! A cell phone or camera is not nearly as bad, but I do sympathize with those whose views are getting blocked.

[WalshFan88]

I think the problem is when heavy-handed security becomes even more distracting than the phones / cameras / etc.


Bingo.

[Topkat]

On Thurs night at the Garden I was in front section C, & the security was pretty strict about the pictures. One guy in my row was told that if he took one more pic or video, he would be thrown out, but he was told several times to stop.
I for one, being only 5'2" was grateful that people were not video taping. I was able to see really great from 13th row, toward the center, near Joe.
We had a great time. I mean Eagles Sat night & Thurs night!
What could be better than that!!:inlove::inlove::inlove::inlove:

[MaryCalifornia]

OK, I do not understand the tablet thing!!! Why on earth would someone leave the house for any event with a tablet under their arm or in their bag, with the intention of using it to record video??!! I have to think that these people also have phones that record and require only one hand to hold up...I seriously don't get it! They look so dorky!!! Next we'll see someone with a desktop and a full-size monitor camera holding up the entire contraption!!

[WalshFan88]

OK, I do not understand the tablet thing!!! Why on earth would someone leave the house for any event with a tablet under their arm or in their bag, with the intention of using it to record video??!! I have to think that these people also have phones that record and require only one hand to hold up...I seriously don't get it! They look so dorky!!! Next we'll see someone with a desktop and a full-size monitor camera holding up the entire contraption!!

Now this I agree with....

Pocket cams and phones are fine though IMO.

But yes, holding up an iPad (especially the bigger model) looks silly and can block view.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well, you can call me an old fuddy-duddy if you wish, but like I’ve said before, as a very short person, I very much appreciate being able to see most of the concert even if I’m not right up front. However, I also like to get up and dance around, especially to the rockin’ songs. Austin, you mentioned in another thread recently that you felt bad for other folks that have to sit behind you at concerts so you have the opposite problem than I do. But, the thing is we try to be respectful and considerate of others around us. And I agree with you - we both paid for our tickets so we both have a right the see the show. I have had a couple of bad experiences, even when I bought VIP tickets – I’ve had the bad luck of the draw and had to stand behind someone Austin’s size and couldn’t hardly see a thing the entire night from my 4th row VIP seat in Charlottesville. Then, last year at MSG, Henley Honey and I had 3rd row center VIPs, and we were seated behind another huge guy (or dickhead as HH aptly named him) who rudely held his cell phone up over his head almost the entire show, again totally blocking my view even when we were seated. Sadly, in both cases, those guys didn’t really care about anyone other than themselves.

Therefore, I think the way the band is doing things is a good compromise. But as Soda said, I do have a problem if security uses Gestapo tactics and enforcement becomes more of a distraction than the cell phones or cameras themselves. I also prefer the band to leave it to the security staff to handle things and not admonish the audience themselves. That tends to make fans feel uncomfortable.

As has been mentioned in other threads, the policies were relaxed at the most recent shows that I attended in New York and Boston. From where I was sitting, it seemed that only the most egregious offenders were reprimanded. I do have one last complaint though. In Boston, the girl sitting next to me was on her cell phone during the entire show. I have no idea what she was doing, but she wasn’t even taking pictures or videoing the show. Not that it’s really any of my business, but I thought it was very disrespectful and extremely annoying. There are thousands of real fans that would have given anything to be in her awesome seat to actually watch the concert. Then, at the end of the show, she actually said, “Wow – that was a great show!” I had to really bite my tongue to keep from saying “Really – and how would you know?” I mean where are people’s manners these days … I’m all for multi-tasking, but some things deserve your undivided attention. :fingerwag:

[WalshFan88]

Dreamer - I definitely do feel bad for others behind me....I sit down most of the show and only stand for my favorite or top 2 favorites and only for a short while at that. I do feel I have a right to be there, but I try to be as accommodating as possible. I definitely don't like when people are inconsiderate and I feel those big @ssholes out there give the rest of us big and tall guys a bad name and people get bent out of shape when they see us. I think I've heard enough jokes about "How's the weather up there" for being so tall, for a lifetime and a half. And plenty of other jokes about my weight....just don't care at this point. I do what I can, and I'll leave it at that.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Austin, if all people who attended concerts were even half that considerate, there wouldn't be any of the problems referenced above. Or, at least, not as many at Eagles' concerts. The guys still don't like pictures from the front rows and it's more than being inconsiderate of those behind them. It amazes me to sit there in the audience and listen to people. Those who really want to take pictures and yet respect the band's wishes and those who feel they can do whatever they want. I have to say, those in the latter category tend to also be the ones who made heavy use of the bar before being seated, so they are more likely to be obnoxious to security when told to stop.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Peter Frampton and Cheap Trick have announced a tour, and in this article, you can read Frampton's thoughts on taking pictures and video during a concert.

At the Seger concert, there were people in the next section over on the floor that had brought tablets to take video with. The people behind them weren't very happy.

[Glennsallnighter]

Whatever about a small camera or a phone I think a tablet is very unfair. It would have to infringe on other peoples viewing in a negative way

[Freypower]

The Guardian weighs in on the Eagles policy:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/feb/25/the-eagles-fly-too-close-to-the-sun-by-banning-mobile-phones-at-their-concerts#comment-48033867

For me, I'm going from taking 200 photos in 2010 to being able to take precisely none.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

At one of the Atlanta concerts I took nearly that many. Of course, only about 50 actually turned out well, but while I would like a few snapshots from each concert I go to so that I have a memory keepsake, I found that actually sitting and watching the concert and not worrying about the camera was rather liberating. I didn't take any on the HOTE tour even before the ban started in LA of 2014, because I'd gotten the distinct impression from both Glenn and Don that they did not like photos being taken. A year ago (nearly exactly), they lightened up a bit towards the end of the tour leg, so at both Raleigh and Cincinnati they allowed people to take 'a few' photos, but not a lot. I still didn't take any, because I knew they preferred to not have them taken. I have to say, when they wear the same clothes over and over, having photos from each concert would kind of lose something anyway.

[Freypower]

At one of the Atlanta concerts I took nearly that many. Of course, only about 50 actually turned out well, but while I would like a few snapshots from each concert I go to so that I have a memory keepsake, I found that actually sitting and watching the concert and not worrying about the camera was rather liberating. I didn't take any on the HOTE tour even before the ban started in LA of 2014, because I'd gotten the distinct impression from both Glenn and Don that they did not like photos being taken. A year ago (nearly exactly), they lightened up a bit towards the end of the tour leg, so at both Raleigh and Cincinnati they allowed people to take 'a few' photos, but not a lot. I still didn't take any, because I knew they preferred to not have them taken. I have to say, when they wear the same clothes over and over, having photos from each concert would kind of lose something anyway.

I agree about their wardrobe. It used to be that when you took photos you could remember each night for specific reasons. That is no longer the case. I'm glad I got the photos in 2010 & also in 2013 & I'm resigned to my fate.

[Glennsallnighter]

It was very refreshing at both Ultimate Eagles concerts and also Spandau Ballet on Tuesday night to be able to snap away to my hearts content, although I did keep aware not to annoy others. In fact I asked Danny (Don, lol) from the Ultimate Eagles did they mind us taking pictures of them performing and I quote 'No, thats another way that we are different.... we also have to drag our own guitars around'

[Brooke]

I've been searching through the last couple years of concert reviews wanting to listen to a few of the songs again (DD, Reprise, Those Shoes, especially) and have noticed that, evidently, the strict policy of no videoing of shows has worked pretty well for them. At least, we haven't had many posted here, so I'm assuming they aren't available. There were quite a few posted back in July of last year at the Lucca, Italy show and before. Then when they came back to the States, very few.

Don't know why I'm telling you, but it makes me sad! I really wanted to see some from some of these newer shows! :sad:

[Glennsallnighter]

You see thats part of the point Brooke, they want you to GO! Which isn't really fair because it doesn't take into account that some people just arent in a position to go financially, location wise, health wise or whatever. But they seem to want to be in control of everything and that includes what is posted on video sites.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Unfortunately, GA, I don't think they see it as 'unfair'. They may feel bad that not everyone is in a position to attend one or more of their concerts, but they do not feel that person is entitled to view a concert on the internet for free. I realize that what Brooke wants doesn't apply here, she's just looking for a physical reminder of the concert(s) she did pay to go see. For others, though, expecting to be entitled to view a concert for free because they don't have the money (or choose to put their money elsewhere) is the same as expecting their hairdresser to do their hair for free and being upset when that doesn't happen. Or a free cab ride, or a free dinner at a fancy restaurant because all they can afford is McDonalds. It totally baffles me that people expect a free concert when they would never apply those expectations elsewhere.

You are right about the control thing as well. The pictures and audio from these phones and small cameras are very similar to foggy glass and nails on a chalkboard, and they don't want that to be what people see and think of them. You'd like to say that the average user realizes all that and takes it into consideration when listening, but they don't.

[Brooke]

Unfortunately, GA, I don't think they see it as 'unfair'. They may feel bad that not everyone is in a position to attend one or more of their concerts, but they do not feel that person is entitled to view a concert on the internet for free. I realize that what Brooke wants doesn't apply here, she's just looking for a physical reminder of the concert(s) she did pay to go see. For others, though, expecting to be entitled to view a concert for free because they don't have the money (or choose to put their money elsewhere) is the same as expecting their hairdresser to do their hair for free and being upset when that doesn't happen. Or a free cab ride, or a free dinner at a fancy restaurant because all they can afford is McDonalds. It totally baffles me that people expect a free concert when they would never apply those expectations elsewhere.

You are right about the control thing as well. The pictures and audio from these phones and small cameras are very similar to foggy glass and nails on a chalkboard, and they don't want that to be what people see and think of them. You'd like to say that the average user realizes all that and takes it into consideration when listening, but they don't.

I get what you're saying, and yes, the videos that we have been able to see and hear are not very good quality and sound nothing like hearing it live.

Which brings up the next point, how about a dvd of this show? I so hope they will put one out! Why do people want to watch these clips of shows? Because there is no where else to see them! And even though I have had the opportunity to see a very few shows, it's better to see a clip or two than nothing at all!

So, Glenn and Don, PLEASE put out a dvd of this tour! Please?

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Brooke, it's like a salary. You're happy with what you make and three months later you want more! I went to 14 HOTE shows and I want to see more! I don't want to see poor quality videos on You Tube where every slug in the audience attempts to record Hotel California, Take It Easy, Desperado, and Lyin' Eyes like there are no other songs. I want the real thing! I want more concerts and I want a DVD. I don't ask for much, do I?

[Brooke]

I'd be very happy with a dvd! Win, win! More money for them and more viewing for me!

Of course I'd like to go to more shows, but there doesn't seem to be any in the near future. Plus if they do a residency thing, they'll probably be too expensive for me and too far away. If!

[Glennsallnighter]

I hear you both too and I totally agree. I have been to 8 HOTE shows and still find something new and different at each show. There are some performances that I know I will probably never see again if they drop HOTE after the Australian dates (AG, D-D and Reprise...etc). I loved this show and would gladly go again.

A DVD would be wonderful.

A residency I could cope with - I'd be prepared at least once a year to travel pretty much anywhere in the USA - its a time off work thing that prevents me from seeing them more (and meant I couldn't commit to Australia).

I'm anxiously awaiting what plans they have for after this leg of the tour!

[StephUK]

Those of you who know me will have realised already that I've got a typically British satirical sense of humour. If you have too, then read on. If not, then best ignore this. Steph





THE ROYAL HOAXER DAILY



Saturday 14 March 2015



PALACE ANNOUNCES BAN ON PHOTOGRAPHY AT ROYAL EVENTS



In a press release issued today the palace announced an instruction from HRH Queen Elizabeth II banning the public from taking photographs and videos or using mobile phones at future royal events.

The Queen is quoted as saying that ‘she doesn’t want the public turning these events into their own personal photo shoot’, and is concerned that the enjoyment of other spectators is being ruined by those taking photographs. She is also concerned that some members of the public jump up and down at these events, thus spoiling the view for those behind them.

On the day of a royal event, signs showing these new rules will be erected along The Mall and all other routes to be taken by the Queen and other members of the royal family.

The Metropolitan Police have the authority to enforce these rules and have been told to be especially vigilant to ensure that no member of the public seen holding a camera, video recorder or mobile phone goes without notice. Police from other forces will be drafted in to assist the Metropolitan Police in this duty. Anyone breaking the rules after being given a warning by a police officer, will be removed from the area and taken to a motorway service area on the M25.

When informed that the British tax-payers were unhappy about these new rules, as their taxes fund royal events, the Queen said, ‘quite frankly my dear, one doesn't give a damn’.

Many tourists visiting London, most notably from the USA and Japan, were also unhappy to hear of the new rules, and have said it may affect their decision to holiday in the British capital in future.


:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

[Glennsallnighter]

Looks like they have taken advice from some maestros!!

:hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious:

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I have to say, I've never heard (or seen in writing) anyone leaving an Eagles concert saying the last line! People might be torqued at the rules, but they generally never say they'd never go to another of their concerts. Of course, the 140 character limit on tweets may have something to do with that!

I mentioned in the second Auckland review thread that those in Australia hadn't tweeted much after concerts. I neglected to mention that those who did tended to mention the lack of using phones and nearly always as a good thing. Of the tweets I saw, I'd say over 2/3 were supportive of it, compared to the ones that complained.

[StephUK]

I have to say, I've never heard (or seen in writing) anyone leaving an Eagles concert saying the last line! People might be torqued at the rules, but they generally never say they'd never go to another of their concerts. Of course, the 140 character limit on tweets may have something to do with that!

I mentioned in the second Auckland review thread that those in Australia hadn't tweeted much after concerts. I neglected to mention that those who did tended to mention the lack of using phones and nearly always as a good thing. Of the tweets I saw, I'd say over 2/3 were supportive of it, compared to the ones that complained.


I don't think the last line was meant to be a direct reference to the Eagles. Maybe you need to be British to understand it!

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I thought of the Eagles' policy on phones when I saw this on Facebook:

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/vernakrose/misc/pretty%20great%20life_zpspmvz2yoy.jpg

[Brooke]

Love it! And noting how some people are always on their phones..... :rofl:

[MaryCalifornia]

Now guess which band said "no cell phones or photos" at their (intimate) show last night? Yep, the Rolling Stones. It's catching on!!!

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/local/la-et-ms-rolling-stones-secret-los-angeles-show-fonda-20150521-story.html#navtype=outfit&page=1

[Glennsallnighter]

Now, I was at Taylor Swift the other night. We had excellent seats, a few rows from centre and to the side. At the start of the gig Taylor told everybody 'Don't mind what those security guys say about staying in your seats. Stand up and dance and do what you like'. So everyone did. The guy in front of us put his child standing on the seat beside him. This kid was tall enough and completely blocked Lauras view. It was also dangerous as those seats fold up automatically. Laura had been asked to take down her sign (They all bring signs to Taylor Swift concerts) as it 'could block someone'. So she asked me to say something to the security guard. He had every sympathy for her but said he could do nothing as 'she' (TS) had told the audience to do what they wanted.

In the end he upgraded us to a centre front enclosure section, where we were in the front and Laura had a great view.

But that is the other side of allowing people to stand up and dance for the whole show.

[WalshFan88]

Sebastian Bach, formerly of Skid Row wants venues to adopt a phone ban:

http://classicrock.teamrock.com/news/2015-07-10/sebastian-bach-wants-gigs-to-adopt-theatre-no-phones-policy

Baz, really?! A rock concert is NOT a movie, a musical or broadway show. It's freaking rock n' roll.

I've talked a lot about how amazing social media has been for concertgoers to interact and encourage others to go to shows. And how the artist can use it to great extent to involve their fans, interact in ways never possible before.

No instead, he wants us to sit in our seat and eat popcorn (exaggerating a bit, but to get the point across). That's not rock n' roll.

Sometimes these aging rockers say things that make me facepalm.

It's one thing if it's affecting others, but if you find a way that it doesn't, who is someone to tell you what to do at a rock concert. I mean COME ON! You paid your ticket, your seat is your own. Again, I draw the line at affecting others. But if you want to sit in your seat and text all night (which I'm not advocating or saying I would do), that's your business if you can make it happen without affecting others.

Maybe Sebastian needs to get back to making music and not trying to show his age. You don't have to embrace it with arms wide open, but let your fans be themselves and do what they want to do. They are paying to see you, afterall. If they want to take pics or send a text, let them. Otherwise you just look foolish.

ETA: I realize some artists have trouble with flash and some like Ryan Adams have an eye problem that makes phone light painful and I'm totally cool with that and respect it and would never use one that would affect that. It's different when you are just a jaded has been rockstar who likes to complain about the way it used to be as compared to now. :nahnah: :hilarious:

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Don't forget the copyright issue, WF88. Not everyone wants to give their work away for free, and just because 'everyone does it' doesn't make it right. Some people think there are more important things than 'looking cool' and 'being with it'. Sometimes, there's a moral integrity that someone has to stand up for. People are not entitled to see concerts for free, nor are they entitled to provide them for others to see.

It is distracting and to more than just the artist. Plus, there is no way for someone under six feet tall to film a concert from five rows back or further without blocking the view of someone unless possibly they're in an aisle seat, and even then that would stop around row 10. It's distracting for the people who paid good money and it's distracting for the artists to see people with devices in front of their faces, or others bobbing and weaving to see around them. Even if they're not held up high into the air, it's a lighted moving picture that is distracting. Plus, it's a disservice to those who care about their music to have others see it on social media and have crappy sound and an out of focus picture represent their work. There are those who say people watching the vids know better and realize it was better in person, but that's just not true, I've heard too many say otherwise.

All I can say is that when I was 20 years old, I scraped and saved in order to go to big name concerts on a regular basis. My husband and I had to work a lot of overtime to afford it, and we did without other things. There were black market concert tapes available, but back then, it was considered wrong to watch them or buy them. The laws haven't changed.

People are conditioned to look where others are looking. You've all heard of the experiments people have done, send one person to a crowded intersection, have them stand there and look up. Even as people rush by them, perhaps annoyed they're in the way, they look up to see what the person is looking at. It's the same with people having their heads in their phones. The person next to you has their phone out and reading something, during a concert or wherever, you are going to look at it at least peripherally. Even if you don't, you have to force yourself to ignore it, and the part of your brain telling you to ignore it is distracted.

Go to the Caption This thread and look at the last picture that AG posted. How many of us looked at that picture and were distracted away from Ringo celebrating by the fact Joe had his head in his phone and was missing the moment? I know I was.

[WalshFan88]

I was mostly referring to just pictures and using the phone normally.

The recording video and youtube thing is another can of worms, much like spotify.

But I do think people have a right to take photos and text during concerts and such.

I just went and looked at the Caption This. To me that is normal nowadays that people are really involved in their phones and are constantly checking notifications, responding to things, posting pictures, etc. I think that's ok. Some people now have rules about a phone pile at the dinner table at a restaurant and the first one to grab theirs pays for the dinner. :hilarious: I would definitely be paying lol. But I would try to not be in that situation.

There's no doubt people are missing out, but I think that's their choice to make.

Again, the sticky subjects are when it involves others experience and the royalties/copyrights/content. That's another ball of wax.

[WalshFan88]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2912sdg.jpg

LOL....

If you look hard enough at the second picture, you might see me. :p

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I was mostly referring to just pictures and using the phone normally.

The recording video and youtube thing is another can of worms, much like spotify.

But I do think people have a right to take photos and text during concerts and such.

I just went and looked at the Caption This. To me that is normal nowadays that people are really involved in their phones and are constantly checking notifications, responding to things, posting pictures, etc. I think that's ok. Some people now have rules about a phone pile at the dinner table at a restaurant and the first one to grab theirs pays for the dinner. :hilarious: I would definitely be paying lol. But I would try to not be in that situation.

There's no doubt people are missing out, but I think that's their choice to make.

Again, the sticky subjects are when it involves others experience and the royalties/copyrights/content. That's another ball of wax.

I get the whole checking notifications thing, and before cell phones were totally outlawed, I did check hockey scores between songs. Not looking them up on an app, just reading the notification. Because of course my Pens don't have the first idea of how to play the game unless I'm screaming instructions to the TV, but I digress. Unfortunately, I've sat beside people at concerts who texted, were on Facebook, and Twitter the entire time. Having that slightly moving glow out of the corner of my eye was annoying.

Earlier tonight as well as Monday night, I saw tweets from people asking their friends what songs they should Periscope live from the Eagles concerts. In both cases, I did reply and let them know that wasn't an option. Ha, one of them now follows me because we've bonded over the Eagles apparently. In both cases there were comments by people for specific songs they like and a few made comments that they don't have the money to see concerts.

[Glennsallnighter]

I would have liked to check in with my kids before the show started on the Saturday night in Dublin, but we all just got a dirty look from security if we as much as took out the phone.

[WalshFan88]

I would have liked to check in with my kids before the show started on the Saturday night in Dublin, but we all just got a dirty look from security if we as much as took out the phone.

:( That sucks GA. For a guy like me, that messes up the whole fun vibe of going to a concert. I'll still enjoy the show but it puts a damper on the opening of the show.

I love the band and the guys, but that just really doesn't look good when you've got security giving stink eye to people, especially people from my generation, the "social media" generation to be exact and making people feel intimidated. And then you've got Don going on about social media.

I know when I saw the band in St. Louis it started off on the wrong foot with some lady saying "the black shirts" are coming if you use your phone, put your phone away. I did, but with a grimaced face to let them know I wasn't pleased. It really made me mad. I'm not one to make a scene, but I have my ways of letting people know when I'm not pleased, more through subtle gestures.

I'm just so used to high energy rock shows and bands that welcome social media and heck, even POSE while you are taking a picture. I'm a classic rock fan and I love older rock music but I have to say, some (definitely not all) of those artists are such fuddy duddys. And I think our guys are at the top of the list.

Look, I'm not advocating recording or stealing of intellectual property. I'm not advocating that. I've never ONCE recorded audio or video at show, I swear my life on that (although I have watched them).

But take some pictures and post to social media? You bet. This is 2015, not 1975. Get with the times guys! And while it's not good for younger fans, more and more middle aged people are getting into smartphones and social media and texting and it's a beautiful thing. So not only are they alienating younger/newer fans of the band, but perhaps some of their main fanbase as well.

Oh well. At least Don has a Facebook and YouTube page now! We just need to get him on Twitter and for him to realize that it isn't the bad boogieman he makes it out to be! :hilarious:

[Topkat]

At the WHO concert Roger Daltry requested people not smoke pot as he has become very sick from it, as I believe he had some throat issues or cancer a few years back. ....Well, people could not even respect that request, as the place was reeking of pot & I saw several people lighting up. We were told as we entered the venue that people would be thrown out if caught smoking weed.

There is just no controlling people these days, Phones, pot, videos, whatever!
It does annoy me when people are filming & holding a camera up for a long time & block my view, but being 5'2' even when people stand up, I can't see that well. I have come to accept this is a concert & things will go on. I don't recall if I was this fussy about it as a teen going to shows, but the shows have gotten a LOT more expensive than back then & I guess getting older has something to do with it...LOL

[Zanny Kingston]

I wanted to weigh in on this one as I am really of mixed opinion on the issue.
I have now been to about 5 shows on the HOTE tour and the Buffalo Show I was at this past Saturday night ( 7/18) was the first time I really saw the security in action over the phone policy. Which I have read about in many previous posts here on this board.
So I had great seats -4th row. Mr. Frey did actually call out a woman who was sitting in the first row center for texting. He then went on to say something like " Everyone ,this is our time together just sit and enjoy the show" So what happens? The man two people over from me decides to record some songs on his phone, got warned by security, and then got asked to leave because he did not stop. Then there was a girl in the row in front of me taking pictures while Don was singing and her flash went off. The couple sitting near her were older than her ,and I saw them trying to tell her to stop, but she did not, she kept taking pictures,, so guess who else was asked to leave?
I get that people spend a ton of money for these shows and want a few pics because its a great keepsake, but most people just seem to lose control over it, and it becomes a phone being held up all night to record a show. That is why the Eagles do what they do. I respect it, and further, I am glad people get asked to leave. So many people believe that there are no consequences to breaking or ignoring rules but the Eagles, unlike a lot of others, actually put a policy out there, they tell people what the policy is , they announce it ,and what happens, people still just go ahead and do as they wish in terms of their phone use. So its not like you are not warned, its just unexpected to be caught and asked to leave as a result of breaking the rules.. It's really symptomatic of a much bigger issue but that is not for this forum.
As someone who spent a ton of money for great tickets to another show recently and had it ruined by people in front of me waiving their ipad mini's and phones around over their heads all night - I have to stand with the Eagles policy on this one.

[WalshFan88]

I don't think people should hold tablets in the air, that's silly. Besides, iPads have WORSE cameras than iPhones despite being bigger screens.

I always turn flash OFF - I wouldn't like being blinded either. I also don't record video. I also don't hold my phone up through the whole show. I take pics for maybe 3 or so songs. I do check social media for responses of pics I post, but not the whole show. I sometimes send an occasional text.

But if I were called out by Glenn or Don or any of them and made a spectacle of and tried to intimidate me, that'd be the last show I'd go to. I'd go to the shows that welcome the modern era of social media, texting, hashtagging, and sharing. I mean so many artists now even provide hashtags for you to use to share for their tour. Some post backstage stuff on YouTube. That's why I love the modern country artists and even some of the older more understanding rock artists. They encourage you to do all of that. They realize the cool ability to share with friends and it brings them more attention and makes them trend.

Now knowing their current policy I wouldn't ever pull my phone out if I were to see them again as I'd be asking for it. But if I didn't know at the time and they embarrassed me in front of an arena for something I should have the right to do (which in my case is texting or picture taking), I would have flames coming out of my ears and I would escort myself out to never go back again and you can guarantee I'd light up social media and email inboxes over that one and would probably never listen to their stuff again. That's just me. It's one thing to send security over, it's another to have attention drawn to you in embarrassment for doing nothing wrong.

There are some things I think aren't good about it - tablet usage (again why use them as your phone has a better camera anyway and as many pixels if not more on the phone), flash, recording video, etc. But I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives. I just don't jive with the idea of a musical or play or broadway show of staying in your seats, setting for a bit, and not using your phone or taking pics. It's rock n' roll, at least it was in the 70s for the Eagles. Back when it had a lot of energy and was more free spirited and not so formal and serious.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Yes, Social Media is here to stay. I use it, extensively at times. I've used it to replace emails, and to replace phone calls. I don't live my life through social media. I know you say that if you were to take pictures, it wouldn't be many and it wouldn't disrupt other people around you. You do realize that if they allowed pictures to be taken, you'd very much be in the minority?

It's the complete lack of control, as Zanny said, that appalls me. No one can take just a few shots, and they lift that camera higher and for longer as time goes on.

I do hear complaints by some people at the concerts, but I always hear people who are very happy at the ban, because it means they aren't distracted.

Out on a different forum today, I read a review of the Buffalo show. It wasn't good. Everyone on it seemed to think they had a right to take pictures wherever they were, and it didn't matter if it bothered others. I believe the exact quote was "people who have their heads up their asses so far they can't see that if I spend over $200 to get in, I should be able to take as many pictures as I want." They weren't talking about the Eagles, they were talking about those in the audience who might be distracted.

All I can say, Austin, is that if your approach were the rule and not the exception, the Eagles wouldn't have the rules they have. I don't think it's fair to blast the guys for not allowing something you yourself don't even condone. They went quite a few shows with trying to get people to cut down and it's nearly impossible to enforce, you can't expect security to count the number of pictures from a lot of different people. It was all or nothing, and for the sake of the majority of the fans they went with 'nothing'. I think it's telling that more and more artists are stepping up and doing the same.

[WalshFan88]

I realize I'm in the minority. I realize most people aren't considerate. To me it's just anti rock n' roll, which was so against the system and rebellious and free spirited to treat a concert like a orchestra or play or broadway musical. To me it just doesn't seem right. I realize most people don't have regard, but I guess I feel that there is nothing wrong with using your phone at a show within limits. I feel all-or-nothing is a bit extreme. To each his/her own I guess. There is no good solution.

For someone like me who has paralyzing social anxiety and cannot interact in real life, Facebook has been a godsend. It's easy to fake confidence online and live out the life I wish I had online through social media. That's why I think it's hard for some to imagine me as someone with severe social phobia and an introvert who can't leave the house unless it's to a doctor appointment or to a concert in a big place where I can isolate myself and can focus on the music. I can't go to Walmart or anything local anymore. That's why I'm such a proponent of it and a strong supporter I think. My therapist tried to get me to cut back and force myself to interact in real life but I think she realizes now that it's much too hard for me and can't be done.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

That's a shame, Austin. I hope you keep trying, stepping out in small doses, and interacting with people one-on-one. In general, people are nicer in person than online! I seem to remember your therapist asking you to do less social media and more 'live' interactions, but it seemed like it was more of an all or nothing deal. I'd approach it more in baby steps. One small success leads to another.

[Brooke]

I completely agree with VA, Austin, and I hope you keep trying.

[WalshFan88]

I will. It's just really hard and I'll be the first to admit I'm in a comfort zone of sorts, but at the same time realize I'm isolated.

[zeldabjr]

I wanted to weigh in on this one as I am really of mixed opinion on the issue.
I have now been to about 5 shows on the HOTE tour and the Buffalo Show I was at this past Saturday night ( 7/18) was the first time I really saw the security in action over the phone policy. Which I have read about in many previous posts here on this board.
So I had great seats -4th row. Mr. Frey did actually call out a woman who was sitting in the first row center for texting. He then went on to say something like " Everyone ,this is our time together just sit and enjoy the show" So what happens? The man two people over from me decides to record some songs on his phone, got warned by security, and then got asked to leave because he did not stop. Then there was a girl in the row in front of me taking pictures while Don was singing and her flash went off. The couple sitting near her were older than her ,and I saw them trying to tell her to stop, but she did not, she kept taking pictures,, so guess who else was asked to leave?
I get that people spend a ton of money for these shows and want a few pics because its a great keepsake, but most people just seem to lose control over it, and it becomes a phone being held up all night to record a show. That is why the Eagles do what they do. I respect it, and further, I am glad people get asked to leave. So many people believe that there are no consequences to breaking or ignoring rules but the Eagles, unlike a lot of others, actually put a policy out there, they tell people what the policy is , they announce it ,and what happens, people still just go ahead and do as they wish in terms of their phone use. So its not like you are not warned, its just unexpected to be caught and asked to leave as a result of breaking the rules.. It's really symptomatic of a much bigger issue but that is not for this forum.
As someone who spent a ton of money for great tickets to another show recently and had it ruined by people in front of me waiving their ipad mini's and phones around over their heads all night - I have to stand with the Eagles policy on this one.

I was in Buffalo too...and when Glenn called out that woman for texting...I was thinking...there are signs everywhere and they kept doing the announcements about it before the show...and she was in the first row texting?...maybe you could get away with it in the nosebleed section...but not in the first row...what the heck is wrong with people...and how bad would you feel to be the one scolded by one of the guys?...I'd want to crawl in a hole...

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I wouldn't want to be the one who paid $950 for a front row seat and spent the time texting! What a moron!

[WalshFan88]

Knowing what I know now, I'd never break out the phone at their show.

But if they weren't obvious about it as they are now (back when I got scolded it wasn't printed or known much about) and I was made a spectacle of out of the blue, I'd be a combo of embarrassed and pissed I've never been before! :hilarious:

FWIW, it's not that I'm advocating texting the whole show. I just believe in the modern era of smartphones and people sharing stuff online and using it.

Same with streaming. There is always the sticky situation side of it though be it royalties or people not respecting others space and view. I was there was a good answer for both.

I make a habit of posting a pic of the stage from my seat view when I get to a show and that's how I found out about the Eagles hating it when the venue security lady yelled and said Eagles security was coming. The opening band (who I just LOVE!!!! :nahnah:) hadn't even started yet or been onstage. I think that's a bit overbearing, but that's just me.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

I make a habit of posting a pic of the stage from my seat view when I get to a show and that's how I found out about the Eagles hating it when the venue security lady yelled and said Eagles security was coming. The opening band (who I just LOVE!!!! :nahnah:) hadn't even started yet or been onstage. I think that's a bit overbearing, but that's just me.

It's not just you! Up until show time and during intermission is very definitely not unreasonable. In Baltimore, during intermission, I checked the score of the Pirates game, and texted HH.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

An interesting article about when you're too addicted to your phone, and proof that just because phones and the social media they access are here to stay doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. The lady in the front row at Buffalo that got reprimanded obviously has problems.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/16-signs-you-really-need-to-put-that-phone-down-right-now/ar-AAdkS0X

[jms18222]

In Atlantic City people were taking pictures all through the show. I am guilty of sneaking a few photos but they will never be posted. They are for me. In all honesty I just wanted to enjoy the show through my own eyes & not that of my phone.
I will admit that my son sent me a text which sounded like something happened to my cat but I waited until intermission to text him back. She was fine.

[Glennsallnighter]

just because phones and the social media they access are here to stay doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. [/URL]

I think that just about sums it up really regardless of an individual situation. I know some calls and texts can be important from a work or family point of view, and I HAVE been guilty myself of having to text family when I don't feel its the right thing to do. But I wouldn't do it just for the sake of doing it!

[WalshFan88]

An interesting article about when you're too addicted to your phone, and proof that just because phones and the social media they access are here to stay doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. The lady in the front row at Buffalo that got reprimanded obviously has problems.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/16-signs-you-really-need-to-put-that-phone-down-right-now/ar-AAdkS0X

I fit most of the items on that list. I know I'm addicted, but I'm comfortable I guess. The only one that is a problem is the "text neck" issue, which I go to a chiropractor for. He's taught me to hold my phone straight across from me than in my lap. He knows detoxing from it and not using it wasn't an option lol.

I just think that social media has been a great way of connecting people. I think real life connection is good, but I see nothing wrong with social media or texting in the big picture, not just concert related. I think it's fine to have an online identity and life. I think Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Periscope, Vine, Pinterest, Google+, etc is all good and has brought me to people I would never have met otherwise.

It's hard for me to understand why some people hate it. I know in the guitar playing/music world it's been a blessing for the guitar players to talk and discuss gear, and it's been wonderful to connect artists and fans.

[AlreadyGone95]

An interesting article about when you're too addicted to your phone, and proof that just because phones and the social media they access are here to stay doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. The lady in the front row at Buffalo that got reprimanded obviously has problems.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/16-signs-you-really-need-to-put-that-phone-down-right-now/ar-AAdkS0X

I think that about 7 or 8 of those apply to me. Honestly, Facebook is the only social media site I use ( I have a twitter account that I haven't logged into in over a year).

I'm not gonna lie. I'd go nuts if I had to give up my smartphone. (Heck, I'm typing this response on it lol). I can do without it for a few hours, though.

My problem is that because of lack of childhood social interactions, I rely on online interactions too much. I don't do well in public, unless I'm by myself. (Ie: I go to FYE to find new music to buy. I'm good with that.). It's when I'm faced with more than just a few "yes/no" responses that my brain shuts down. I don't have that problem when typing words on a screen. My brain and mouth don't have to connect!

[WalshFan88]

My problem is that because of lack of childhood social interactions, I rely on online interactions too much. I don't do well in public, unless I'm by myself. (Ie: I go to FYE to find new music to buy. I'm good with that.). It's when I'm faced with more than just a few "yes/no" responses that my brain shuts down. I don't have that problem when typing words on a screen. My brain and mouth don't have to connect!

Totally my issue as well.

I didn't get along with my peers growing up, the kids thought I was different and treated differently than them because I'm disabled and so they got jealous and I was bullied severely so I grew up being anti-social and not liking real social interaction. I became a hermit and kept to myself, and still do.

Online is so easy to do, so easy to fake confidence or social skills. Hence why it's my drug. It feels comfortable and I don't have that painful feeling I get when I have to interact with people I don't know well.

[AlreadyGone95]

Totally my issue as well.

I didn't get along with my peers growing up, the kids thought I was different and treated differently than them because I'm disabled and so they got jealous and I was bullied severely so I grew up being anti-social and not liking real social interaction. I became a hermit and kept to myself, and still do.

Online is so easy to do, so easy to fake confidence or social skills. Hence why it's my drug. It feels comfortable and I don't have that painful feeling I get when I have to interact with people I don't know well.

That sounds almost like me, even the disabled part(mild cerebral palsy). I'm lucky that bullying never happened at my school(apart from the occasional "four eyes" taunt). I was the nerd, but I didn't do much talking. I kept to myself. I wasn't popular, but not exactly an outcast. I felt comfortable at school.
It was at home where the anti-social/hermit thing begin to form. My mom was my bully, verbally and emotionally. It got worse after my dad died to point where now, I usually only leave the house to go to a few places.That's why I'm dreading trying to attend college. I honestly don't think that I can handle it. I nearly had a panic attack when reading the housing info of the local college a few days ago! I'm still living with my mom, and it's not a great situation, so I'm torn. I have been for nearly a year. (Any therapy or anything to try and help me cope is not possible while under my mom's roof).
That's where the online thing comes in. Online, I feel that I'm among friends. People who won't judge me because of my checkered past. People who care. I've had more support from online friends than from my own family and the people I know in real life. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?

*I apologize if I took this thread way off course. I've only been to one concert. I don't remember much about it. (I was eight), so I can't comment on the photo/phone policy.

[NightMistBlue]

Kim, are you starting college this fall?

[AlreadyGone95]

Kim, are you starting college this fall?

No. The main reason being is because, I've yet to take either the ACT or SAT or the Compass test for the local school I'm looking at. I'll need to take one before I apply. It'll be at least Spring 2016, I'm sure.

[WalshFan88]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/29/sorry-but-this-new-apple-patent-could-stop-you-from-snapchatting-at-concerts.html

This pisses me right off as an Apple iPhone user. If they do this, I will happily go Android.

I fully believe in taking as many pics and even small videos as you want and posting to social media. I also believe in streaming on Spotify and YouTube. The minute a tech company starts to help a bunch of fuddy duddy stick-in-the-mud artists is the day I no longer use that company.

They should be thankful we are posting their photos and videos on social media, it generates interest and it makes more people want to see them. It's all beneficial. It's exposure, nonetheless. And it's the wave of the future. I'm all for everyone being addicted to their phones and I don't personally see an issue here.

Even the fact Apple is trying to do this is already making me think about how to go Apple-free in MY household.

I don't care if the artist is tired of seeing a sea of phones. If that's how PAYING consumers what to spend their time, that's their right given to them with paying the tickets.

Apple will definitely be getting a letter from Mr. Austin ASAP with a threat of leaving the company in the dust in favor of Google. I already support Google in the backlash of people saying YouTube is so bad (like DH has done lately). I think it's the future and it's up to the artist to find a way to get these companies to pay them without removing free content for us fans. I have no problem with freemium content. Freemium means a free tier with advertising and paying to remove said advertising (premium tier). People like Taylor Swift drive me nuts. She could generate even more listens to her music if she'd put it back on Spotify. She would gain more than she says.

Anyway. I'm totally against Apple here and I think they are just pandering to a bunch of young and old rebellious artists who are just living in a dream world or stuck in the past. If it comes down to it, I will quit supporting and listening to said artists if they remove my right to take pics at a show or remove their music from streaming services, OR, if I find them using Apple's feature at their concerts. It's that simple. I don't care how much I like their music. It's something I'm very passionate about - promoting smartphone use, modern technology, and supporting social media as a way of the future, and for some of us, a replacement for in-person interaction. I'll forever be an advocate for that stuff. And when it comes down to it, I'm willing to ditch a few things I like/love in the name of doing so.

And all of this is coming from a life long Apple devotee and someone who uses nothing but Apple for computers, tablets, phones, and mp3 players since I was little. But that could change in a New York Minute (to ironically quote DH here).

[Brooke]

The only thing is, if Apple does it the others will eventually follow suit.

[WalshFan88]

The only thing is, if Apple does it the others will eventually follow suit.

If that happens I'll just smuggle in a tiny digital camera and move them to my phone for social media. Or use a disposable one and scan them in and put them on that way. I'll buck the system somehow! lol

[Brooke]

Lol, Austin!

[sodascouts]

I know I'm late on this, but what is even more disturbing about this Apple patent is that it's exactly the kind of "Big Brother" control that we all fear. Powerful lobbyists decide what they want, they pressure Apple, and Apple enforces their will. What's next?

Most police don't like you filming them. If Apple were to come under pressure from police groups, what's to stop them from patenting something that wouldn't allow you to film if a police scanner, easily detectable by the phone, was within a certain range? There are myriad examples of how this type of control could be abused easily in even more serious ways.

It's possible Android will follow suit... or it's possible Apple's monopoly, already diminishing, will fall further. That would be nice, actually! It's already happening elsewhere. Their attempts to prevent customers from playing music bought at the iTunes store on non-Apple devices caused me - and many others - to start purchasing my music from Amazon.

Also, how would it differentiate between those performers who are OK with recording and those who are not? Venue policies always say "no recording" but leave room for artists to override it. Many struggling artists WANT the exposure. I guess they're just screwed if this goes forward; their needs will be overridden by the powerful and wealthy artists who no longer need promotion.

Finally, while it will certainly decrease instances at least in the short term, Austin is right. There are always workarounds for the determined, and rogue programmers who will be happy to develop apps which "fool" the device.

[travlnman2]

I am sure some of us remember this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSrN5b3fRnM


In Axl's defense there was a no flash photography rule and the guy was clearly breaking it. Heck even the band's manager ask security several times to take it before Rocket Queen. Also they were supposed to go back on but off course that did not happen and Axl's role was completely justified.

Though I can see better security at various Don Henley shows. Walsh doesn't mind it. Felder loves it lol.

Though can you Imagine someone like Don jumping into the crowd?:steviesmack::twisted:

[Brooke]

OMG, Axl was a man before his time there! :lol:

[Glennsallnighter]

I heard on the radio that phones are being restricted/ banned at some weddings here because couples are sick of people not being 'in the moment' while they take their vows and during speeches and other important parts of the ceremony. I don't think it's a total ban for the whole occasion. I would see it as being fair. Who wants their wedding all over social media as its happening?

[GlennLover]

I hear of more performers all the time asking fans not to use their phones. Some of the very young performers too!

[WalshFan88]

I heard on the radio that phones are being restricted/ banned at some weddings here because couples are sick of people not being 'in the moment' while they take their vows and during speeches and other important parts of the ceremony. I don't think it's a total ban for the whole occasion. I would see it as being fair. Who wants their wedding all over social media as its happening?

Yeah I would never take pics at a wedding or any social function unless it was going to be something with either me alone in it (selfie), or family or close friends. Certainly not as a guest taking pictures of everyone! And I almost never post photos of anyone else unless they know about it ahead of time and I let them do the tagging in case they don't want it on their page.

Concerts though are different for me. I guess maybe because it's entertainment and I paid to be there. I want to share with others and not only have memories to keep but also network with people on social media, gain followers, and if they are a new or up and coming act, give them some free promotion and reviews. I don't do flash though, and while I personally never record video, I do watch everyone else's lol. I take probably 20 or so pictures at a single concert. I'll generally post a pic from my seat before the show even starts when I get there to show off the view (or lack thereof), and one during. I'll save the other 15+ for after the show to upload and edit them. I personally don't have a problem with videos of songs, but perhaps not full shows. I do think short clips are fine though I personally don't record them. And I never take pictures of the crowd, just the band, again to make sure I'm not posting a photo of someone that doesn't want to be seen on public pages like Instagram!! LOL.

[WalshFan88]

I know I'm late on this, but what is even more disturbing about this Apple patent is that it's exactly the kind of "Big Brother" control that we all fear. Powerful lobbyists decide what they want, they pressure Apple, and Apple enforces their will. What's next?

Most police don't like you filming them. If Apple were to come under pressure from police groups, what's to stop them from patenting something that wouldn't allow you to film if a police scanner, easily detectable by the phone, was within a certain range? There are myriad examples of how this type of control could be abused easily in even more serious ways.

It's possible Android will follow suit... or it's possible Apple's monopoly, already diminishing, will fall further. That would be nice, actually! It's already happening elsewhere. Their attempts to prevent customers from playing music bought at the iTunes store on non-Apple devices caused me - and many others - to start purchasing my music from Amazon.

Also, how would it differentiate between those performers who are OK with recording and those who are not? Venue policies always say "no recording" but leave room for artists to override it. Many struggling artists WANT the exposure. I guess they're just screwed if this goes forward; their needs will be overridden by the powerful and wealthy artists who no longer need promotion.

Finally, while it will certainly decrease instances at least in the short term, Austin is right. There are always workarounds for the determined, and rogue programmers who will be happy to develop apps which "fool" the device.

Exactly.

[WalshFan88]

This isn't about concert photo taking but it's about smartphones.

Now I LOVE Stevie and I respect her and I wouldn't use it during lunch, especially with Stevie, but I disagree with her thoughts on phones in general.

http://societyofrock.com/what-stevie-nicks-has-to-say-about-cellphones-will-make-you-ashamed-to-be-a-cellphone-user/?a=de&var=stevienickscellphones-ILCR&utm_campaign=stevienickscellphones&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_term=original-ilcr-de&utm_content=stevie+nicks

[sodascouts]

I love Stevie - as most know lol - but she is ridiculously old school techno-phobic. If it was introduced after she turned 40 in 1987, it's destroying society!

[WalshFan88]

I love Stevie - as most know lol - but she is ridiculously old school techno-phobic. If it was introduced after she turned 40 in 1987, it's destroying society!

Yup. Still love her though. But yeah, I noticed that. lol

[RudieCantFail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRnmlSKAQIw&t=1s

A Dose of Buckley's take on cellphones at concerts. He's for the people w/ cellphones to some extent.

Viewer discretion is advised, since he swears a lot and can be offensive. "Angry Humour from an Angry Man" and "a Canadian rant comedian and a nihilist" are things that he has used to describe himself. He actually works in radio as a host, so he's familiar with one of the ways musicians get exposure/make a little money.

[WalshFan88]

Slash (of GnR fame) and Nikki Sixx (of Motley Crue fame) are ok with phones. I'm thankful they are out there talking about it.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-nikki-sixx-cellphones-at-concerts/

[sodascouts]

Agreed. The only thing that bugs me is when people put the phone ABOVE their heads and it blocks my view!

[WalshFan88]

Agreed. The only thing that bugs me is when people put the phone ABOVE their heads and it blocks my view!

LOL, that's never an issue with me. If I put the phone above my head, the photo would be of the rafters. :lol: Goes along with being tall. They never complain to me about the phone. It's my height. I've even had people come up to me after a show and thank me for sitting for most of the show and I've even got a guitar pick that way! They said "when you stood up, I feared I wouldn't see anything"...

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Austin - you were the first person that I thought of when I read Soda's post. :wink: As the resident short person on the board, just about any one holding their phone up blocks my view. The thing is if most people were as considerate as you are about this, it probably wouldn't be such a big issue. But, unfortunately, the people at shows whose main goal is to get as trashed as they possibly can or insist on viewing the entire show through the lens of their cell phone spoil it for others. Kudos to you for 'earning' that guitar pick! I'm glad your kindness and consideration were rewarded.

[WalshFan88]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylan-photos-onstage-show-823436/

Another rockstar doesn't like having their picture taken. Boo hoo, lol.

Of course views seem to be split between two sides but I'm of the opinion - I'm buying the tickets, I can take your photo (or a few). If rockstars get too arrogant about this, then I won't go to their shows. Simply put. If more do that, they might be tempted to change their minds. I think there are some who have had bad experiences with people and phones at concerts that make them side with the band/artist but I think respectful photography should be allowed and is totally right.

I mean some acts aren't even letting you bring in a phone. How stupid is that?! Even if you don't take a single photo or video, what about a family emergency, another important event that you need to be notified etc that necessitates contact. I'm not talking a Facebook alert. But an actual situation that needs response or at least acknowledgement. Lets say you are by yourself at the venue/hotel, who are they going to call? The venue? Do you really think they will track you down in a sea of people or take the mic from the singer and announce it? And maybe you don't want it broadcasted to hundreds or thousands of people. I know I wouldn't. Embarrassing! It's just asinine. Some will allow them, but in a sealed bag. What if you can't hear it ring? I mean come on! Jack White is really quite arrogant I think.

I've said many times I understand the perspective of audience members of blocking the view, and using tablets or holding up big phones and all of that. But that's not my point. It's the fact that these celebrities don't want their photo taken. Too bad. It's like when they attack the paparazzi and stuff when they are out and about in LA or NYC or wherever. You chose to become famous, deal with it! I guess I just don't have much sympathy for them. If you wanted a private life, don't put yourself in the public spotlight. Same for those that don't like criticism. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen! I'm not saying I think they should have every detail put in public but they are just freaking pictures! In public places at that.

Now taking videos is a different topic. I'm of the opinion that you should be able to take one video from the concert. However I think that it is something that doesn't have to be allowed. It's definitely IMO a more sensitive topic. I DON'T agree with those that hold up devices and constantly film or livestream the entire thing. I am guilty as charged as far as watching full concerts on YouTube, but I can respect why artists don't like that - it cuts into their profits. But it may also motivate some to see a show, so that's shaky grounds for debate. I'm not sure that I can argue with them on that one. But I don't agree with the Don Henley types that think Google or YouTube or Spotify is the devil and is going to ruin the music industry, either.

It's like those who worry about Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc and privacy concerns. If you don't want it to be shared - don't share it! I'm not saying they should do everything but if you are worried about advertisers, don't put it up there. And if you are that worried about big brother, maybe you need to stop doing or sharing sketchy things, or at least realize that of course you might be being monitored, and I personally am ok with that. I think Edward Snowden did a lot of damage. I'm personally on the side of the government on that one, I think domestic surveillance can do a lot of good in terms of preventing attacks in our own country. I think people need to take responsibility of their online identity and public profile and quit complaining. Read the fine print on the TOS or privacy policy. Often times they'll tell you what they are going to do with your data. A lot of these networks have in depth settings now where you can turn off personalized advertisements too and lock down your social media accounts. There is a lot of FUD still when it comes to technology, even after all of these years. It's like those who believe everything they read online. Check your sources and do your research!

And that's the Austin rant for the day! :lol: I feel better.

[CAinOH]

Grumpy old men. :)

Take a lesson, Austin: Don't become a grumpy old man. There are too many of them out there already. :)

[WalshFan88]

Grumpy old men. :)

Take a lesson, Austin: Don't become a grumpy old man. There are too many of them out there already. :)

Haha agreed!

[FreyFollower]

It has been many years since I got to go to a concert. But it never occurred to me at the time that they wouldn't want their photo taken. I've had artists turn toward me for a long time when they saw I was photographing them. (Can you tell I've never been to an Eagles show?:sigh:) I never used flash, and my phone is about 17yrs. old and has no camera...call me Analog Woman!

While I agree some photographers can be distracting and obnoxious, generally I don't see a problem if they are polite and discreet.

I was wondering what artists/venues thought these days about small, actual cameras without flash and not blocking anyone. Would you get chased out for using one of those?

[Glennsallnighter]

Well FF I have done that and the only time I was told to put it away was at an Eagles show in NYC. But I got one of the best pics I ever got of Glenn :heart: and it was the last show that I saw him in so definitely worth it.
I think it depends on the Artists and the Venue.

For instance I have seen many artists in the 3 arena which would be the premier indoor concert venue in Dublin. The only band which had a strict 'no devices' rule was the Eagles. In fact many bands encourage the use of cameras and pose there for them. So its not a venue rule.

Alternatively I was at the Ultimate Eagles last weekend in the TLT in Drogheda. Here there was a ban on devices as per an announcement and a notice which said that LEGALLY they weren't allowed. I've never heard that before. I have spoken to members of this band on several occasions and they have told me they are quite happy with pictures and videos of themselves performing being taken by fans.

So venue, band, both, neither - I dunno. I guess we have to take it show by show

[WalshFan88]

It has been many years since I got to go to a concert. But it never occurred to me at the time that they wouldn't want their photo taken. I've had artists turn toward me for a long time when they saw I was photographing them. (Can you tell I've never been to an Eagles show?:sigh:) I never used flash, and my phone is about 17yrs. old and has no camera...call me Analog Woman!

While I agree some photographers can be distracting and obnoxious, generally I don't see a problem if they are polite and discreet.

I was wondering what artists/venues thought these days about small, actual cameras without flash and not blocking anyone. Would you get chased out for using one of those?

I think a lot of venues prevent actual cameras. I think phones are the only thing they do allow in, but it's up to the artist.

[WalshFan88]

While this isn't only to do with cameras in concert, it's another "get off my lawn" type thing that involves phones in general, social media, technology, and youth.


https://youtu.be/LKXQwrjdxOU?t=2464

The phone comments start at 41:04. I like how it starts out like "no offense, but" and then saying something blatantly offensive and he even admits he has no place to tell us this.

It's Jack White telling us all how shallow and ridiculous we are for loving cell phones. I recommend watching the 4-5 minute section I've shared. He says things like "people walking around looking at phones look silly" and that sharing pics to social media about what they are doing is "shallow" and implying that we are narcissistic, self-centered, jealous, etc. It's like those who look down on people who take selfies, etc. I'm not a prolific selfie taker by any stretch, but I say go right ahead with the selfies. He also says it's sad that we can only stop using our phones when it is forced (like in his concerts), and that it's an addiction and seemingly as bad as alcoholism. It's basically the same schtick we hear from these types of people. It's like the people who share photos (on Facebook, ironically!) that back in my day we didn't play Xbox, we played with sticks and tires, etc. I always put a laughing reaction to those types of posts. It's just another "our generation was better" type of thinking pattern so frequently seen by a certain part of the older gen.

It's a common theme, usually from older individuals. Rarely, young people (Jack White isn't a millennial, but a lot younger than a lot of the people that see it this way) can think the same way, usually due to being heavily molded by their parents as to how to act and think and tend to be more traditional and conservative. You see it more in rural, small, suburban areas and less in cities and bigger towns. And I don't have a problem if that's how you feel. My problem is when these people insist that it's the only way to do things or else you are "insert insult here". It's only gotten to be worse with the current state of the United States and until the next big change, I don't see it getting any better. I feel like someone has wound the clocks back in time and not for the better. It's a real shame that any progress that was made, a lot has been lost.

For whatever reason this type of thinking tends to come from men, who tend to be pretty conservative (and not just politically, but in viewpoints on anything) and backward thinking. Saying things were better "back then". And I'm sure to them it was, they had more control and less people resisting. Maybe men are just more vocal about their distaste for the youth of today and technology. On another thread we were laughing how dad hates social media and mom uses it. I find that to be true more often than not. What is it about old men (and their sons that were raised to be just like them) that makes them so bitter? LOL! I sure hope I die before I reach that point. I really, really would rather be almost anything than be a stuffy old man. Some might see this post as grumpy, and you'd be part right, but it's more venting because I'm tired of seeing one demographic tell all the other demographics what to do, and when and how to do it. It kind of goes back to the whole toxic masculinity thing, a lot of these guys are actually quite fragile and feel the need to push people around out of sheer insecurity. I definitely subscribe to a more modern and balanced identity, myself. Some see sensitivity as being weak but I see over-the-top manliness as being fake.

I really, really hate the curmudgeon old school-or-else fuddy duddy personality types. I should be clear I don't hate them as people (unless they are bullies or think that their belief system means it's ok to freely attack others, like minority groups. I'm not saying you can't speak your thoughts, but being respectful is key). I'm proud to be a millennial, Gen Y'er, progressive, etc guy. If for no other reason than to be a thorn in the backside of those who shake their fists at us and are stuck in past. Not every person is like this, but those that are and think their way of doing things is the only way and that things were better back then really bug me, ironically enough more as I get older. :lol: They will learn that they can either get on the bus or get ran over as we help take this world to the next place. They can kick and scream and say we are lazy, entitled, selfish, etc and that won't stop us from change. They like to cry "snowflake" and say we need our safe spaces and support animals, but it's usually the stick in the mud types who do the most whining about our every move. They claim everything is too politically correct. I take that to mean they can't get away with being bullies and being rude anymore without blowback. They use the 'get a thick skin' phrase and say it's just good natured ribbing and fun. Well if someone is being insulted, it's not good or fun. And they aren't wrong for reacting that way. Cue the "everyone is so easily offended these days" verbiage. And then you've got the "today's generation are wussies and so weak" type comments (cleaned up for the sake of the board) from people like Clint Eastwood. I'm not really going to worry what a my-time-is-up actor thinks of me. At least I'm not talking to an empty chair like it is a human being! :rofl:I think I'll choose to be a member of the so-called "wussy generation" over doing that any day of the week, thank you Clint!

The bottom line: if you don't want to use a phone, have social media accounts, or do anything the younger generation does - then don't. That's totally ok. You don't have to do it just because we do. You don't have to play along. You are entitled to your thoughts and I don't have a problem with that. I also don't mind more general expression of "I miss the old days" or "I'm old school". But when you start telling everyone who doesn't how terrible we are and how the young people are all worthless (in a roundabout way), I have a problem with you. And if you hide behind your belief system and thinking process so you can freely attack other types of people and people who think differently and then shout "It's too PC now" when people get upset with you, I think you are pretty worthless yourself. And if you are an artist who bans phones from your show, that's fine. Just understand that a lot of us won't come to your shows anymore and may even lose interest in your music entirely. Same for those that are against YouTube, Spotify, iTunes, etc. That's ok too. I'm not ageist. I'm "only do it the old way/my way"-ist. And with younger-ish guys like Jack White, that really proves my point. You can be a grumpy old fart at any age. And you can be a civil, well-rounded, mindful person at any age. Have your beliefs, not excuses.
Ok, off my soapbox for now. I just get fed up with the narrow-minded people of the world. :hilarious: And maybe I feel a little disheartened when I see someone like Jack who can be so forward thinking and mindful on one thing like immigration involving one group of people, completely disown, look down on, and talk rude about another. Until this whole phone thing I always thought Jack White was pretty cool, a rebel? Not now! And I'm not even mad about the phone ban anymore. That's fine. It's the way he talks about those of us who dare to think differently about smartphones, social media, etc and telling us how sad, silly, etc we are.

[New Kid In Town]

Right on Austin ! I totally agree with you !
I have a funny little story. I spend the holiday with my two sisters and their hubby's at the shore. While we were eating dinner one night my sister's each told a couple of stories that made us laugh/shake our heads. My one sister works in the city. She said she was walking from the subway station to her office when she saw a 20 something kid walk into a pole. The kid had her head down reading her phone, oblivious to everything around her. My other sister said they were out to diner a couple of weeks ago. They sat near a family of four, who did not talk to each other the entire time they were at the table. They only spoke when they gave their food order. Their entire time was spent on the phone - two hours !
I get what he is saying but those kind of preachy people get on my nerves. Jack is not THAT old. He is talking like he is 80 years old.

[sodascouts]

I love my phone, but people do get out of control. Dreamer, HB, and I were walking down a sidewalk in Detroit and there was a family blocking the way - Mom, Dad, and all three kids (ranging from what looked to be about 8-15) each on their own phones just standing around entertaining themselves and completely oblivious that they were taking up the entire sidewalk!!! We had to excuse ourselves so we could get by. I was like "Great parenting" lol.

Still, there's something I read once that I've found to be pretty true:

Tech popularized before you're 40: not too difficult to learn, makes life easier, really cool

Tech popularized after you're 40: hard to use, unnecessary, detrimental to society!

[WalshFan88]

Right on Austin ! I totally agree with you !
I have a funny little story. I spend the holiday with my two sisters and their hubby's at the shore. While we were eating dinner one night my sister's each told a couple of stories that made us laugh/shake our heads. My one sister works in the city. She said she was walking from the subway station to her office when she saw a 20 something kid walk into a pole. The kid had her head down reading her phone, oblivious to everything around her. My other sister said they were out to diner a couple of weeks ago. They sat near a family of four, who did not talk to each other the entire time they were at the table. They only spoke when they gave their food order. Their entire time was spent on the phone - two hours !
I get what he is saying but those kind of preachy people get on my nerves. Jack is not THAT old. He is talking like he is 80 years old.

Haha! Yep, I also really don't care for the preachy types.

[WalshFan88]

I love my phone, but people do get out of control. Dreamer, HB, and I were walking down a sidewalk in Detroit and there was a family blocking the way - Mom, Dad, and all three kids (ranging from what looked to be about 8-15) each on their own phones just standing around entertaining themselves and completely oblivious that they were taking up the entire sidewalk!!! We had to excuse ourselves so we could get by. I was like "Great parenting" lol.

Still, there's something I read once that I've found to be pretty true:

Tech popularized before you're 40: not too difficult to learn, makes life easier, really cool

Tech popularized after you're 40: hard to use, unnecessary, detrimental to society!

Yeah, I guess I can see that. You still need to be mindful of your surroundings and make sure you aren't standing in someone's way or that you don't run into someone or in traffic. But I personally don't mind if someone is standing off to the side or sitting on a bench using their phone. Some like to share that stupid "zombie apocalypse" photo of everyone on their phone in a group but I don't see a problem. As long as you aren't bothering others, do your thing. I still don't think it's an addiction. I don't see a need for the digital detoxes or the "disconnect" camps/retreats, etc. I just don't see it as that big of a problem but I know i'm probably alone. Even Apple and Google are implementing "screen time" features to control smartphone overuse, and not just for kids but for adults. I just don't see it as a problem. Maybe I'm in denial.

[WalshFan88]

As far as phones when you are out to dinner, some have a real problem with it. Some even insist that you turn your phone off if you eat with them or you have to put money in a jar if you grab your phone from a basket during the meal. IMO, that's silly. We aren't children needing to have a swear jar, lol. While I can understand the need to communicate during the meal and give attention and not be silent and glued to your phone, checking your phone randomly during the meal, especially when waiting for your food is not a big deal to me. Again, older people tend to be more "funny" about that kind of thing. They also tend to share photos like the one going around Facebook of a little boy on his phone sitting with his grandpa/great grandpa, designed to pull your heartstrings and saying something like "he will regret this later on". I guess I'm neutral on that. I can see both sides, but I think the anti-phone side tends to be more over-the-top and dramatic. It's definitely one of those things that a balanced mindset works well. Be present, but respectful.

[FreyFollower]

Like most things, there are both good and bad aspects to cell phones. It sure used to be nice to go on vacation, etc. and not have to deal with your boss, nosy Aunt Gertrude, and so forth.
I agree with Soda about the middle age technology gap. I don't think it is due to a lack of ability to learn, but teenagers, elderly parents, money issues, etc. cause tech to be a non-priority, and it passes you by. It seems that one day I was setting up friends' stereos and vcrs for them, and the next I was lost as a goose!
I will say that when I was in elementary school, we had some lessons in phone manners. I think it would be a good idea to return it, with added parts on safety from predators and admonishments not to bully.
But if people want to be rude, goodness knows they don't need a cell phone to do it! And people can obsess about anything.
My grandpa, born at the turn of the last century, found technology amusing AND helpful. He would laugh and say, "Some people talk about the 'Good Old Days'---this IS THEM!"

[sodascouts]

As far as phones when you are out to dinner, some have a real problem with it. Some even insist that you turn your phone off if you eat with them or you have to put money in a jar if you grab your phone from a basket during the meal. IMO, that's silly. We aren't children needing to have a swear jar, lol. While I can understand the need to communicate during the meal and give attention and not be silent and glued to your phone, checking your phone randomly during the meal, especially when waiting for your food is not a big deal to me. Again, older people tend to be more "funny" about that kind of thing. They also tend to share photos like the one going around Facebook of a little boy on his phone sitting with his grandpa/great grandpa, designed to pull your heartstrings and saying something like "he will regret this later on". I guess I'm neutral on that. I can see both sides, but I think the anti-phone side tends to be more over-the-top and dramatic. It's definitely one of those things that a balanced mindset works well. Be present, but respectful.

Ah, I'm one of the people who doesn't like it when people are on their phones during dinner with other people. I think it depends on how you think of dinner: a time when you just eat, or a social occasion with your family and friends.

I bring my phone to the table to check it when the meal is over, but when there's conversation going, I think it's downright rude to ignore people talking to you to check your phone. It's like "Hey, this is more interesting than you are."

I have friends who I've gone out to eat with, just one on one, and they've been checking their phone while we're eating together, and I am just a smidge offended. I swallow it down because they're my friends and I know they don't mean to be rude, but it's not a good feeling. It's like, "Am I not enough for you?" And I have to wait until they're done to talk to them.

When this is happening throughout the meal - and it always does, because they can't put down their phone for more than a few minutes - it sucks.

[Brooke]

I like Soda's thinking on it. Don't be disrespectful when you are with friends or family. You are spending time with them so give them your attention.

[FreyFollower]

I agree. Unless you have someone in the hospital or something, checking your phone can wait. Although not as obvious, it is not unlike pulling out your paperback book, putting on your headphones, or chatting at length to folks at the next table. Making your fellow diners feel uninteresting and ignored is not a good thing, whatever the means. It's not the fact that a phone is being used and old people hate it. It is the lack of consideration for your companion(s).

Cell phones are great technology, and some folks can be over the top fanatical against them. But if folks used more courtesy using them, maybe they would find less push back.

[WalshFan88]

Everyone has their own views on that, I understand. It's a touchy subject. I should clarify some things here, and maybe stand firm on some others I guess on where I'm personally at on dining with smartphones.

Do I mean use your phone throughout unless you are holding up silverware, no. But if there is a blank space in conversation or they've went off the rails with another person and left you out, do I think you should be able to pull out your phone and check notifications, heck yes! Again, if someone is having a conversation with me, or a group convo that involves me - absolutely I don't look down at my phone and scroll. But you can also bet that I will use it when I see an opportunity. And if I'm only dining with one other person, you can also bet that I will be scrolling like mad while you are in the bathroom. :lol: I don't see it as bad.

I personally don't see phones as being addictive, nor do I see a problem with people who have to check them all throughout the day, everyday. People call it FOMO - fear of missing out. I laugh. I mean, it's not like this is going to be a DSM diagnosis in the future. It depends on your viewpoint. I definitely take a modern, more "youthful" viewpoint of using a phone. Some people IMO go over the top with their 'pushback' of smartphone usage. These things are our lives now, and I'm ok with that. The people that aren't on board - that's fine. Don't use one. But don't expect me to be real over the moon when you chastise me for my love of it.

It's like those who go on about social media friends vs real life friends and how people aren't connected enough and rely too much on online communication vs in-person communication. If you are going to speak out about that - you best make sure you aren't one of those people who ever talk for hours on the phone. "Yeah, but you can hear their voice, etc" (as if FaceTime/Skype/Hangouts don't exist!). It's still not in person, so I'm absolutely going to call you a hypocrite if you say something to me about my preference of online communication, lol. Again, before you go raking someone over the coals, don't be guilty too.

Again, as I said in my last post - you do need to be present in conversation, in the place you are at, and mindful. But the other side needs to be respectful about how they go about showing their disdain for people. Otherwise we may just not go to dinner with you anymore and may remove the hassle altogether, and instead choose to sit at home and eat and yep - use our phone, which will probably have some even more up in arms about the current state of things even more. It's a delicate balance and both sides need to be able to be mindful of one another. I'll be in the moment for you and present, but don't rake me over the coals!

[WalshFan88]

I'm personally of the kind that could never take a trip or do any of those retreats where you can't use your phone or the internet. They'd end up putting me in an insane asylum before it was over! :D

I'm the guy that if I'm traveling and the hotel internet is slow or if the power goes out at home and my high speed wifi is gone, that's going to be a really bad day for me. :lol: First world problems, I know.

To some I'm sure they can't get over how trivial it is. They wouldn't be wrong I suppose but that's just how my life is. I'm a product of that generation. I think people that are older than I can handle it better. I can't imagine life without the internet. Or social media. Or a life without phones, tablets, and computers, which are all honestly pretty useless to me without the internet. I prefer to text than call, so I don't use my phone as a real phone very much. So if there is voice reception but no data, I might as well not even have the silly thing. I, like most other smartphone enthusiasts, spend hours on my phone. I pretty much only stream content now, and I'm using Netflix, Hulu, HBO NOW, Prime Video, Spotify, YouTube, etc way more than I turn on the satellite box. I consume content more on tablets than I do on the big screen anymore.

Some would call this an addiction, but I call it the product of being in this era and growing up always having it. People that grew up without it know better on how to live without it. I've had a personal computer of my very own since I was probably 10, and I had a BlackBerry for years as a young teen before I got an iPhone. I've just always needed to be connected to the net and I prefer to do everything online these days.

I think the generational gap is a big one. And I'm not just talking baby boomers vs Gen Y. Even Gen X and Gen Y have a huge gap between them. I think Gen Z will end up more like Gen Y.

I'm sure one of these days when I turn 50+ I'll be a curmudgeon about something too. But being 30, I just cannot imagine it. To me you are missing out on so much. FF is right - these are the good old days! And why not take advantage of that by taking photos of memories and love the fact that you have a great camera with you everywhere now! No more carrying one and forgetting it, etc. If something cool happens, or a big life event, you can have photos so much easier now. Same for taking videos. No more big bulky camcorders and having to use VHS tapes. You can keep them private or have them seen by a ton of people by uploading them to Facebook or YouTube. People have so much more options for capturing life.

[sodascouts]

Again, as I said in my last post - you do need to be present in conversation, in the place you are at, and mindful. But the other side needs to be respectful about how they go about showing their disdain for people. Otherwise we may just not go to dinner with you anymore and may remove the hassle altogether, and instead choose to sit at home and eat and yep - use our phone

Oh my gosh, this is such a sad statement, and you don't even realize it!

This is what I worry about. That people are so attached to their phones that if their friend has a problem with it, they would rather sever the friendship than try to work out their phone issues.... and wind up sitting alone at home with their phones 24/7... and not even realize they've lost something important.

You talk about a huge generation gap, but I'm in the generation that gets technology. I'm in that transitional generation - old enough to remember what it was like before the internet, young enough to love my smart phone and use it every day just like you do. My generation invented smart phones, texting, and social media. We were the first ones to use it and popularize it. I was using AOL message boards and AIM (AOL Instant Messaging) in the 90s. I was using Facebook when the site was only open to college students. But maybe this dual perspective allows me to understand that both have value and that you can't completely disconnect from the people physically around you in favor of the digital world. You need both.

How about this: "I don't agree with my friend and I think his attitude about phones is over the top, but I value my friendship with him. I'll humor him and put away my phone for 60 minutes while we eat." Is it really too high a price to pay?

[WalshFan88]

I should clarify. I still think there is a generation gap, but I'm not saying everyone is like that. I personally believe there is a big gap between generations, the biggest being between the baby boomers and the Gen Y/millennials. Some boomers tend to think we are worthless. That's fine.

Maybe my statement was a bit harsh and probably reactionary about not going to dinner (I was a bit upset at the time of posting by this idea that people who use phones at dinner are so bad), but it's just as sad to me to see older people chastise the younger generation for anything. They usually follow it up with "well if they didn't do X or they started doing X again they wouldn't get blowback". No, how about it's not up to you to decide what we do! We are different than our ancestors. And I find that to be wonderful! If I criticize them for being ancient with their thinking or their antics, they'd tear me to ribbons - and that's what they need to remember about attacking young people. Respect your elders, sure, but they can also respect us. Just because you are a certain age doesn't mean I give you unconditional respect. As with any age, that is earned. I'm not going to put up with your attitude just because you are a senior citizen. If people give me crap, they should expect to receive it back. That goes for all ages, genders, and walks of life. You reap what you sow. If you want to go to dinner, I will try to not use my phone and only use it when I feel it's right and not be glued to it. And similarly, I insist that you try to be cordial and also present in conversation. It works both ways, IMO, Soda.

Soda, while I agree it isn't too much of a price to pay, I also expect the other side to not say anything if I happen to glance at it out of habit without even touching the damn thing. It's a balance. To me the anti-phone people can be pretty exhausting to be around and I think if I'm going to go without my phone, which I will, you also best be present and engage in conversation. I'm not saying I would do what I said in that quote, but the people who don't like the technology and stuff need to be respectful too and realize that time moves on, and that being stuck in the past is annoying to younger people, just as much as they are annoyed by us. However we can learn to keep that to ourselves and just put it all aside.

Quite frankly people are so judgmental these days and especially older people that if I'm going to put in the time and investment to go eat with an anti-phone"r" (when I truly am happy eating alone or with someone else who thinks like me and is cool with phones), if you rake me over the coals about ANYTHING, that will be the last time until I receive an apology from whoever it is. I will compromise. Is that too much to ask? Surely not. It's all about balance and compromise. I refuse to do my part only to have someone give me crap anyway or to not hold up their end of the deal.

[WalshFan88]

I really wish social interactions weren't this difficult. I wish society was different. I'm afraid more and more people will become hermit crabs and stay by themselves, and when something does happen to the internet or power grid, we are pretty much screwed. I think a lot of people favor online interaction simply because people can't get along anymore. And if someone is a jerk, it's very easy to completely erase them from your online life. Not so easy to do with Bob down the street. Be it the political climate, the generational divide, whatever - it's pretty bad. Some people are going to say "people are offended so easily anymore" or "I hate PC". To me I say, no, people got tired of taking it, and now they are revolting. Good on them.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Austin - I think you make some valid points, but are over-generalizing both sides of the issue. I may have posted this before, but one personal incident that always sticks in my mind is when two of my nieces wanted me to invite the family over my house for dinner because they didn't get to see each other often enough. So I did, and what happens? The same two nieces are sitting in the family room with everyone and all this conversion going back and forth and what are they doing - they are sitting there with their phones texting one another and totally disengaged from the family. So, call me crabby if you want, but you better believe I said something to them. As others have said - it's about common courtesy and social interaction.

I will only make a couple of more points about this ...

First, if you want to change things in this world, you don't do it by withdrawing from society - you make it happen by uniting and collaborating with other people.

Secondly, I promise you, as you get older, your perspectives change and new things will come along that you will think are not for the betterment of society.

[WalshFan88]

I think it just drives home it's all about perspective and what your background is and how you were raised, etc. Your nieces probably didn't realize it would bother you, but because you are from a different time and come from a different raising or values about ethics/morals/manners/etiquette - it bothered you. In that case, I'd have to say neither side was wrong, JMO. This goes back to the whole division thing. I will say I think the anti-phone side has a legit point too, but they are also shifting some of the blame at the same time. One side is not guiltier than the other. I'm willing to compromise, but they need to back down some.

Again, I must say - I'm all for collaborating and social interaction Dreamer, but if I'm doing my part and complying with their demands (I mean requests!), I expect the other side of the aisle to do their part too and try to be amicable. That seems to be missed here. I have a huge problem with people who insist on us doing something, and we can't tell them to do the same (AKA, quit whining about how we do things differently). As I've said a couple of times now - I'll put my phone down for an hour and eat with you, but there better be equal amount of effort on your part to make it worth my while and be kind. You better be present, a good listener, and a good conversationalist. IE, you don't get to make all the rules and I have to follow them. I get to set some conditions as well. I feel like if someone is going to tell me not to do something or how to do something, I get to tell you the same thing, and tell you not to do something you do (complain) or to do something (be present and worth my time, energy, and frankly $). That's all I ask.

I think the anti-phone or anti-millennial side is every bit as guilty as we are. They like to "parent" us. They also see theirselves as authority figures over us, when IMO, they cease to exist after you are 18 or so and the only parents you need are the ones who brought you into the world. I'm a big believer of BYOB - be your own boss. But that's a whole other kettle of fish I won't get in to which is likely to cause even more controversy here among the spectrum of viewpoints, and again, is a product of how I view things with a very modern and young lens. Again, I'm willing to compromise. But that requires your effort, too. That's fair.

The only parting comment I will say is this. Yes, you have the right to want your dinner company to be present and in the moment with you. But, the people who perhaps have different views have the right to not be dragged through the mud for them. Sure, the answer is not to withdraw from society. That's clear. But that's exactly what will happen if one side of the equation keeps going for the jugular of the other side. It may not solve anything, but it's frankly less headaches for us, and we aren't having to listen to things that hurt us and are blatantly disrespectful. Even if it's not a resolution of the issue, I'm personally going to choose the path of least resistance. I get easily hurt, and I will withdraw if that's what it takes to keep my sanity. I'll try to be social and collaborative, but after taking several verbal beatings, I'm going to have to bow out, at least for awhile. Maybe because I was bullied and I was tolerant and I let them keep doing it until I was on the brink of suicide that I react the way I do and see things the way I do. Maybe it's true, the younger generation isn't as tough as the older generation. Maybe we are more sensitive. Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing. Feelings matter! The bottom line: if you are going to criticize me, you best be perfect yourself. Otherwise don't go crying when we finally choose to stand up for ourselves. I think that is more than fair to ask, and if that's too much to ask maybe it's time to take a good long look in the mirror.

Disclaimer - when I am saying "you", I mean the people who think the way I'm describing and not anyone on here in particular. I'm only referring to Dreamer's incident in the first paragraph.

[WalshFan88]

This is relevant not only to this thread but to this forum also. Lol.

https://i.imgur.com/YkCLCWQ.jpg

Is it just me or is there absolutely nothing wrong with this pic?! Who is the meme-maker or for that matter the photo taker (which if they did take it to push a narrative that would be ironic and hypocritical at best if they used a phone to take that picture!) to say those people aren't happy and comfortable in that situation. Things aren't like they were. Better/worse/indifferent - who cares. We have to always be moving forward regardless of that and we have to realize antiquated ways of doing things and societal norms have to change as do our viewpoints on social behavior of humans and the influence of technology on said behavior.

Now I consider myself an old soul and old school with my tastes in music and tastes in other entertainment like movies and such - but technology, social media, and politics are not one of those areas. I'm a very progressive person in all of those areas. As long as all the people at that table were good with everyone on their phones - who cares! If you don't want to do it fine. If you don't want your tablemates doing it, take it up with them (although it could lead to friction and lack of involvement from future engagements, including from the phone user). But if a table of people you don't even know are all on their phones, then MYOB!

[WalshFan88]

Oh and here's something I thought of.

Don Henley hates cellphones at concerts. How long before this pouch gets implemented at Eagles shows?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHNlVC8NRuI

I'm sure it is a big cost to the artists for these pouches to be rented or purchased and for the staff with unlocking stations to be there. They put your phone in the pouch outside the venue before you go inside or even go through security. You get to keep your phone on you (which is the only admirable thing about this invention), but you have to silence it (vibration only) AND put it into a locked pouch that requires a strong magnet to pull open. If you get caught tampering with said pouch once inside by cutting it open or telling them you have no phone and they catch you inside the venue with it - you're thrown out immediately. Also if you destroy your Yondr pouch, you won't get just thrown out. You either pay the $50 bucks for the cost of the pouch, or the cops are getting called. They aren't disposable. You must return them after unlocking.

Yondr's rationale is that if you need to make or take a call, there is a lobby area with an unlock station that can open it, but the people standing there to unlock it will watch you and make sure you lock it when you're done. There are also unlocking stations at the end of the concerts outside on your way out and you give the pouches back to the staff. Hard to say how much time it adds on the way out and the lines to get your phone unlocked so you can catch a cab and leave. Oh happy day. It takes long enough to get in and out of a venue, especially the big ones. This will definitely make this even more of a travel nightmare.

Personally - not only would I never go to a show with these implemented, I would be majorly turned off and quit financially supporting the artist and not buy anything. If you have a no phones out rule that's one thing and if you are caught you are removed like the Eagles do it now. But to lock MY personal possession and lifeline in a bag that if it malfunctions I or the Yondr people have to cut it open and potentially damage the phone - and I'm PAYING you to come see you, you can forget it. If any of my favorite artists sign on with Yondr - it won't be good. I'm just one person, but I won't be alone. Most other millennials like me will also likely revolt.

So far Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, and Jack White (who we've discussed recently) are the big named entertainers that have implemented these magnetic pouches in their shows and are not optional.

I'm not going to touch on the school issue is that is a different issue entirely and I can vouch for their use there way more than making an adult use one to be able to see something they paid for.

I just KNEW it was a matter of time before the anti-phone crowd came out with something like this. I can't believe I didn't hear about it until today. What's funny is the Yondr CEO is a fairly younger guy. I guess I shouldn't be so hard on the older generation. You can be a fuddy duddy at any age! :hilarious:

[Ive always been a dreamer]

This is relevant not only to this thread but to this forum also. Lol.

https://i.imgur.com/YkCLCWQ.jpg

Is it just me or is there absolutely nothing wrong with this pic?! Who is the meme-maker or for that matter the photo taker (which if they did take it to push a narrative that would be ironic and hypocritical at best if they used a phone to take that picture!) to say those people aren't happy and comfortable in that situation. Things aren't like they were. Better/worse/indifferent - who cares. We have to always be moving forward regardless of that and we have to realize antiquated ways of doing things and societal norms have to change as do our viewpoints on social behavior of humans and the influence of technology on said behavior.

Now I consider myself an old soul and old school with my tastes in music and tastes in other entertainment like movies and such - but technology, social media, and politics are not one of those areas. I'm a very progressive person in all of those areas. As long as all the people at that table were good with everyone on their phones - who cares! If you don't want to do it fine. If you don't want your tablemates doing it, take it up with them (although it could lead to friction and lack of involvement from future engagements, including from the phone user). But if a table of people you don't even know are all on their phones, then MYOB!

Well, Austin - This is one of those things that we just have a fundamental disagreement about. I am not making any judgment about these individuals, but, to me, this is a sad commentary on our society today. You complain about the issues we have today in our very divided country, but how are we ever going to solve this if we don't communicate and understand one another. There are many positive things about cellphones and other technology today for sure. But, there are also some very negative things. This kind of technology allows people to hide behind their 'device' and behave in ways that they would not do when they have to confront someone face-to-face. I think a lot of the venomous social behaviors we see today are a direct result of technology. I believe this is a form of isolation that is very unhealthy for a civil society, so, I am judging that.

Do these people have a right to be a 'prisoner of their own device'? Absolutely, as long as their rights don't interfere with the rights of others. Would I confront these individuals if I saw this in real life? No, I would mind my own business as long as they weren't violating my rights. But, I do care and I definitely believe I have a right to an opinion about the cultural impacts.

[WalshFan88]

Well, Austin - This is one of those things that we just have a fundamental disagreement about. I am not making any judgment about these individuals, but, to me, this is a sad commentary on our society today. You complain about the issues we have today in our very divided country, but how are we ever going to solve this if we don't communicate and understand one another. There are many positive things about cellphones and other technology today for sure. But, there are also some very negative things. This kind of technology allows people to hide behind their 'device' and behave in ways that they would not do when they have to confront someone face-to-face. I think a lot of the venomous social behaviors we see today are a direct result of technology. I believe this is a form of isolation that is very unhealthy for a civil society, so, I am judging that.

Do these people have a right to be a 'prisoner of their own device'? Absolutely, as long as their rights don't interfere with the rights of others. Would I confront these individuals if I saw this in real life? No, I would mind my own business as long as they weren't violating my rights. But, I do care and I definitely believe I have a right to an opinion about the cultural impacts.

I guess my problem with this meme is that I don't believe those people are in fact "prisoners of their own device". I don't see it as an addiction that is anywhere on the same level of alcoholism, crack addicts, IV drug users, etc. A lot of people think that you must be addicted or unable to control yourself if you love your smartphone that much. But it's just not true. I think people can become distracted by their device and not realize how much time in one sitting, but I don't think it's an addiction that needs rehab, an intervention, or a special detox program or camp. People can become distracted by TV programs, video games, or other forms of entertainment. Before kids had smartphones it was a tv program they wanted to finish before mommy sent them to bed. Then it was Pokemon. Then it was Xbox and Playstation. Then Fortnite. This is why both Apple and Google with their recent operating systems have offered a feature to not lock you out of your phone but to just send a reminder that you've been scrolling through Instagram for an hour, or watched Netflix for 3 hours, and it might be time to take a rest. And yes, if you truly cannot stop yourself, you yourself can set it to disable that app for a few hours. But YOU do it, not someone else. On iPhone it's called Screen Time, and on Android it's called Digital Wellbeing. And for parents - for years now there has been parental controls for timeouts, designated usage, website blocking, etc on smartphones and tablets.

I have no qualms about your comment on the fact that keyboard warriors are prevalent. Don't I know it! But where we differ is what causes it. What causes it and what platform enables it is two very different things. What causes it is often a problem with the person themselves. They just use technology as a platform to spout their vitriol. But yes, the ability to be anonymous and just use a screenname enables this. But then again I know people on Facebook use their real full first and last name and spout vitriol and they know some of their Facebook friends in real life and even meet with them regularly. It's still not a face to face conflict, but people know you and some of your social media friends can know you in real life. And frankly, there have always been groups of people that get together and bounce negativity off of one other whether it's gossip, talking behind someone's back, or making comments they would never share outside the lunch where they all privately sit and say those things. You can have an echo chamber in real life or online. I personally know there have been hate groups in real life before social media where people group together in real life and are evil and do terrible things, have a messed up belief system, etc. I don't need to name them, but KKK for one. What causes it is often someone's upbringing and antiquated viewpoints on religion, politics, ethics, morals, etc. People think they can shield behind their beliefs to enable them to target certain groups. It's like pit bull dogs. It's not the dogs, it's the owners. One bad owner breeds their dog with another pit bull dog, and those aggression tendencies are genetically sent down the chain and family tree. The dogs weren't created any more aggressive than a tea cup yorkie. Don't shoot the messenger, in other words. Instead of blaming phones, I think it's time to redirect it to the people who act like this. It's too easy for these nasty people to throw out excuses and hide behind some old outdated way of thinking to rationalize and justify their rude behavior. We are divided, and yes we do need to communicate. And yes, there needs to be in person communication. But that doesn't mean those of us who favor one method over the "old fashioned way" is in any way bad. Change is good, and should never be feared or avoided.

The difference between those who hide behind their anonymity online and the people who spread hate and nastiness in person is that most of those people are only saying that stuff in person with likeminded individuals behind closed doors and most try to hide their bigotry and racism. But it can still seep through the cracks. But let's face it, there is a lot of in person violence and discrimination and hate crimes all the time. There are people who bully people in real life all the time. I was one of the victims, I can speak from personal experience. And my experiences were pre-iPhone/Facebook/Twitter/etc btw. Can we really put 100% of this on technology? No. Is it a platform to do it on yes. And I think Facebook, Twitter, and other social networks need to be more proactive in deleting, hiding, and blocking that type of content and offering bans to those who abuse the platform. Alex Jones was banned on almost every platform largely in part after his comments about Sandy Hook being a hoax and then having his lunatic followers threaten and otherwise bother the families of the victims of that tragedy. We need to see hate speech accounts banned. We need to have more stringent reviews of reported posts and more harsh warnings. We need to also not allow political propaganda with false information not to be shared on Facebook, Twitter, etc. This is a big problem. Cambridge Analytica interfering with Hillary Clinton's campaign made me irate and is wrong. The potential for voting systems to be hacked or altered by Russia or another foreign entity is a MAJOR concern. But voting machines aren't smartphones. We don't vote via Facebook. But it IS still technology.

Social media is not perfect. Point blank. But I can't help but picture the character in the movie The Waterboy who was Bobby's mother who kept saying "foosball (football) is the DEVIL" and picturing some of the people who are so up in arms about it. Maybe instead of blaming the platform, it's time to blame the people. And yes, until people can control themselves and kept their hatred to themselves (or better yet, gain a better personality and a modern belief system), make the social networks enforce rules, react to reported posts, and ban people after only one warning. But we need to work on ourselves more than we need to do something about the smartphone revolution. Because to me, the reverse would be like putting a bandaid on a sliced artery. It just won't work. People have to change themselves. It's too easy to blame the venue.

If anything - these people have always thought this way, it's just that we didn't know they did until they had a platform to broadcast it. Some do it with their name attached, some under a random screenname. But this line of thinking and hatred has always been here. It's just been kept under wraps. And more than I'd blame social media for anything, I'd blame the last election for telling some of these people it's ok to hate.

Speaking for myself, I have far more online friends than in real life friends. In my experience, I have found more real loyal friends online than I have in person. Have I had some bad experiences, absolutely. But I've had very bad luck trying to form lasting relationships in real life. And no, it's not me. Well, maybe it is in the sense I used to let people walk all over me. But it wasn't because I was some jerk or standoffish.

Bottom line - of course you have a right to your opinion. But other people don't have a right to use that opinion to beat the other party over the head. I'm fine with differing opinions, but when it starts either affecting me or if I feel attacked, I'm going to revolt and make it known. Of course Dreamer you aren't guilty of this. But the person who made this meme, the people who share it, and others that bash smartphone users or the use of smartphones or try to pull on heartstrings about how sad some little boy is going to be because he's using his phone in front of his grandpa get no respect from me and I will react.

So while you are ok with it as long as it doesn't affect you or others, I'm more in the camp of I'm ok with it as long as it doesn't affect me. I don't try to police people to protect other people from their actions. I did that once in junior high. A son of a family friend who was a couple years behind me was being bullied on the bus by his classmate and I stepped in and stopped it. After we got off the bus, that kid came up to me and was mad at me for sticking up for him and made him feel like he needed me or couldn't stop it himself (even though he clearly was not handling it well) and in a roundabout way basically said it made him feel weak or that it might lead to future bullying for him because I had to help him. From that day forward I don't try to protect anyone from anyone else who doesn't ask/want me to. Again, minding my own business.

[sodascouts]

Well, I think the meme is implying that people are so addicted to their phones they're unable to talk to other people even when those people are sitting right in front of them, and they think that's kind of sad. And I must agree, I don't think it's cool to be with someone and ignore them so you can play on your phone.

[KingWalsh]

Soda=spot on

[WalshFan88]

Well, I think the meme is implying that people are so addicted to their phones they're unable to talk to other people even when those people are sitting right in front of them, and they think that's kind of sad. And I must agree, I don't think it's cool to be with someone and ignore them so you can play on your phone.

I just don't think it's an addiction, Soda. I mean I think that to say that it is minimizes the severity and lethality of real addictions like alcoholism or heroin, etc. Smartphone overuse isn't killing people. Even overeating can kill people. Last time I checked someone who has FOMO (fear of missing out) and checks their phone frequently or is obsessed with Instagram isn't going to die because of it. Talking and driving isn't an issue anymore with the bluetooth in the car and texting over voice hands free is easy with Siri. So until people start having real permanent potentially lethal damage because of a smartphone, let's not call it an addiction and dramatize the situation. Same with gaming, gambling, or whatever. It's overuse and distraction. It doesn't kill the person. It doesn't kill innocent people on the road. You can't overdose. The psychologists and psychiatrists that have cute little names for everything, like calling it "nomophobia" (no mobile phone phobia) love it. Another DSM code, another patient, more money, etc. Let alone big pharma.

And I find it highly hypocritical that this photo of this group was likely taken on - you guessed it - a smartphone. I'm a firm believer in all or nothing thinking - 0 or 100. Either completely avoid them and practice what you preach to the strongest level, or leave people be and enjoy what they enjoy. And if it was taken on a digital camera, that person uploaded it to the internet, and the meme maker made this, and shared on it social media to start a share chain. If that isn't pure irony I don't know what is. lolz I mean come on. Pot, meet kettle. It's just so overdramatized and people feel the need to police others or "save" them.

Also, in this specific case - EVERYONE was on their phone, Soda. No one was ignoring anyone and there were no feelings hurt because literally the entire table was doing it. This particular meme doesn't fit that narrative/agenda. Whose to say those people weren't completely happy and fulfilled and were in any way upset or sad or missing out? That's what I don't like about the anti-phone crowd. They project their thoughts and feelings onto others as if everyone thinks like them. That table of people could have been 100 percent happy and saw nothing wrong with it. And you know what, good on them! There are too many people out there that like to try to tell everyone how to live. Some of them live that way, and some of them tell others how to live while they never practice what they preach. Now, to me, that's what's sad! I'm totally fine with everyone having an opinion. But when someone's opinion and beliefs and the way they think I should live get in my way of doing what I want with my life, be it in person by demonstrating their disapproval, or with dramatic judging memes they share in an ironic fashion - Houston, we have a problem. Unless you are the one with me at dinner (ex.), I don't need that person's 2c on how I live my life.

To me this new wave of anti-phone memes is like when selfies started to become popular a few years ago and selfie sticks were being sold and someone made nasty little memes saying they were really supposed to be called "Narcissistie" and all of the judgmental people shared that meme. Sorry, but any distaste I have about that topic is going to be toward the person who made the meme or shared it, not the people who take selfies all the time. Luckily the whole anti-selfie thing has died down some. I'm not a prolific selfie taker at all, I take them occasionally, but I believe someone taking a picture of themselves is not a sign they are a narcissist. In fact, I'd say the one who thinks their way is the only way is the one with the problem. Even more so, I think selfies have helped the whole body positivity movement and overcoming insecurity.

Then you have people who are dramatic and exaggerate like Jack White. He said it's sad and that everyone looks silly to him using their phones out and about. Then he passive-aggressively states "but maybe this is the new normal and I'm the weird one. It will probably turn to implants or microchips". Wow. Yes because putting an electronic implant in your body is soooo closely related to using smartphones. It's not Star Wars or Inspector Gadget, Jack. You can't put in a new chip and suddenly gain new features, lol. Talk about science fiction and grasping at straws to make an already weak point. That's a real stretch, I'm sorry.

I like to think everyone on here doesn't act like the cases I've described and are like me in that if you aren't affecting me, I won't poke my nose in your business. Problem is - there are those out there who aren't like Dreamer, Soda, or I. Even if it doesn't affect them, they still have to knock that person. And that goes deeper than smartphones. That can be for a myriad of reasons that someone doesn't like your choices.