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Ive always been a dreamer
10-12-2007, 10:42 AM
We started this discussion over in the last Survivor game thread. I thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread for this topic. We can use this thread to talk about any suggestions or feedback you may have for the Survivor games. Even if you're just plain sick of them, what are your thoughts?

Ive always been a dreamer
10-12-2007, 10:42 AM
I'll start - I loved Sexy Girl's suggestion to do a "first impressions" LROOE Survivor game, and then follow up in 6 months to a year with another game to see if we change our mind or to give new board members a chance to play at a later time.

As far as solo albums, I am unsure about whether or not we should to do them all because we may not get as much participation. Maybe we could start by doing greatest hits compilations i.e. Actual Miles for Don, Solo Collection for Glenn, and Little Did He Know - Joe Walsh's Greatest Hits for Joe. For Tim, we could vote on which one of his albums to start with (you know - have a mini-survivor game to determine the order :wink: ). If that goes well, maybe we can do some of the more well-known ones. I also don't think it would be a very good idea to do all of one Eagle's solo stuff consecutively.

Sexy Girl
10-12-2007, 01:16 PM
That idea about the solo songs sounds very good, Dreamer.

Greatest hits are usually those everybody knows - and if there are still some missing we could send some mp3s :wink:

Brooke
10-12-2007, 03:35 PM
I've really had fun with the Survivor games. Lots of great comments and ideas about the songs.

As far as the next one, I think it would be fun to do some of the guys solo albums, but I don't have them all either. :roll: I'm working on that though. I have all of Don's and I think all of Glenn's except Soul Searchin'. I only have Timothy's latest and a greatest hits of Joe's. I think it would be best to alternate the guys works if we start with their solo albums. Don't want to overload on one of them too much!! (Although I don't think that's really possible!) Doing the greatest hits collections would be a good idea, too, I think.

As far as LROOE, I think it would be best to give us a chance to listen to it for a while. Let us mull it over for a few months. jmo

Ive always been a dreamer
10-12-2007, 04:14 PM
I understand why some of you would like to have a chance to listen to LROOE for a while before doing a Survivor game. However, all along we are playing Survivor games for albums that are 30+ years old because that's all we've had. We've had years to reflect on these albums so that's what we are comfortable with. We have never had the luxury of new music until now. It would be very different to get out of that comfort zone and have to vote for some stuff that is new to our ears. Then 30 years from now (or even several months from now), we can come back to this board to see if our opinions have changed any. :wink: JMHO

Freypower
10-12-2007, 06:05 PM
Dreamer's last comment about LROOE appeals. Yesterday I wanted to wait but today I think 'hey - why not'? It will be really spontaneous.

I agree it's a good idea to do Solo Collection, Actual Miles & Look What I Did (although that is a double CD). I don't have any of Tim's CDs. :blush:

timfan
10-12-2007, 06:17 PM
I really like the idea of doing a LROOE Survivior Game! We have waited so long for this album it will be interesting to see what everyone's opinions are!

We could do Tim's Feed The Fire CD at some point.... His website www.timothybschmit.com has clips of all the songs on that CD. At least that would allow the people that don't have Tim's material to have something to go on. JMO of course :)

Maleah
10-12-2007, 08:16 PM
I really like the idea of doing a LROOE survivor after the album releas and then doing another one later. Like it's already been stated, I think it would be VERY intriguing to see what songs are most popular right away......and what changes down the road after people have had a chance to listen to them over and over again.

Ive always been a dreamer
10-12-2007, 10:58 PM
FP - I think we are talking about 2 different CD's of Joe's here. The one I'm talking about is a single CD with 15 songs. The name of it is "The Definitive Collection: Little Did He Know ... Joe Walsh's Greatest Hits", not the 2-disc anthology "Look What I Did". Here are the songs it includes:

1. Funk No.49
2. Tend My Garden
3. The Bomber
4. Walk Away
5. Midnight Man
6. Mothers Says
7. Turn To Stone
8. Meadows
9. Rocky Mountain Way
10. Help Me Thru The Night
11. Life's Been Good
12. All Night Long
13. The Confessor
14. A Life Of Illusion
15. Ordinary Average Guy

However, I'm pretty sure that most all of these songs are on the 2-disc anthology that you are talking about, so you could still play a Survivor game without having to buy another CD.

EasyFeeling
10-13-2007, 05:58 AM
I really like the idea of doing a LROOE survivor after the album releas and then doing another one later. Like it's already been stated, I think it would be VERY intriguing to see what songs are most popular right away......and what changes down the road after people have had a chance to listen to them over and over again.

Sounds good! :) I would like to do LROOE next even if it's hard when our opinions are not definite.
As for me I don't have all the solo albums. I have most of Glenn and Don, but no album of Timothy and Joe.

Freypower
10-13-2007, 10:30 PM
FP - I think we are talking about 2 different CD's of Joe's here. The one I'm talking about is a single CD with 15 songs. The name of it is "The Definitive Collection: Little Did He Know ... Joe Walsh's Greatest Hits", not the 2-disc anthology "Look What I Did". Here are the songs it includes:

1. Funk No.49
2. Tend My Garden
3. The Bomber
4. Walk Away
5. Midnight Man
6. Mothers Says
7. Turn To Stone
8. Meadows
9. Rocky Mountain Way
10. Help Me Thru The Night
11. Life's Been Good
12. All Night Long
13. The Confessor
14. A Life Of Illusion
15. Ordinary Average Guy

However, I'm pretty sure that most all of these songs are on the 2-disc anthology that you are talking about, so you could still play a Survivor game without having to buy another CD.

You're right - in fact I thought I'd made a mistake later. I can certainly do Little Did He Know as I know all those songs.

sodascouts
10-15-2007, 12:08 PM
Well, after reading everyone's input, I say we go ahead and do two LROOE Survivors. The first will start Nov. 9. We'll do one disc, then take a break at Thanksgiving, then do the second disc. We should be done before the holidays.

Regarding the solo Survivors, I think doing a greatest hits for each would be a good idea and FTF for Timothy. We do have some live versions of the solo songs on the sites for download which can help people who aren't familiar with all of the songs. Even if the participation isn't as strong it will still be fun. We'll do those after LROOE.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

This brings me to one more thing. Maybe not for LROOE Survivor but for the solo ones... when I ran Survivor games on a Fleetwood Mac board, we had "immunity questions." I would post a trivia question at the opening of each round and the first person to get it right would be able to pick a song to be immune from elimination that round. This is meant to mimic the real show's "immunity challenges." However, if that's getting a bit too complicated, I understand.

EasyFeeling
10-15-2007, 12:50 PM
Your suggestion sounds good, Soda. Count me in.

Maleah
10-15-2007, 01:04 PM
sounds good to me Soda!

Ive always been a dreamer
10-15-2007, 03:11 PM
I like the idea of including the immunity questions. I think it would be fun, but if others think it would get too complicated, that works for me, too.

Brooke
10-15-2007, 04:27 PM
I like the immunity idea, too. Sounds fun.

Glennsallnighter
10-15-2007, 05:09 PM
All of this sounds great. I must admit that I dont have any of Joe's or Timmy's music but I'm sure I can acquire it somehow. I may not get my LROOE until the middle of November as its estimted dispatch date is 11th November but I'll join in when I can. And the immunity question sounds like a great idea! :D

Perfect Little Sister
10-15-2007, 06:55 PM
Well I'm a bit nervous as I just logged onto my musictoday acct and it said "no orders". :shock: Shouldn't it say there is an order pending? I did finally get the HL download after over a week of waiting. I'll be so upset if they've messed up my order. I know this is silly in the greater scheme of things...but still.

Freypower
10-15-2007, 07:10 PM
Keep checking it PLS.

The 'immunity' thing sounds good.

SweetHolly
10-17-2007, 06:50 PM
I would love to do a LROOE survivor game and it would be pretty cool to do some of the guys solo albums. I have all of Don Henley's, Glenn's, Timothy's, Airborne by Felder, both of Randy's self-titled albums and Joe's greatest hits Little Did He Know. I don't have any of Bernie's solo cds yet. I was also thinking maybe we could do a song survivor with the Poco songs that Randy and Timothy sing on.

Freypower
10-17-2007, 07:29 PM
Just on the LROOE game - I don't mind splitting it into two discs while we are still unfamiliar with it but once we get to know it and play the game again we should do the entire album.

Ive always been a dreamer
10-17-2007, 07:39 PM
FP - I believe Soda may be away from her PC tonight, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I think what she actually may have meant is that we will split the game up in to two halves. We will do 10 rounds to eliminate the first 10 songs, take a short Thanksgiving break, and then resume with Round 11 to do the 10 remaining songs.

Freypower
10-17-2007, 07:43 PM
Oh, I see. Thanks for clarifying that Dreamer. :D

sodascouts
10-17-2007, 08:37 PM
Just got back from teaching my night class. You're right, dreamer, that's what I meant.

glenneaglesfan
10-18-2007, 08:51 AM
Sounds good to me, too. I like the idea of doing the greatest hits solo albums. I have Actual Miles, Solo Collection and The Best of Joe Walsh and the James Gang, which has most of those on See What I Did. As timfan says, those of us who don't have Feed the Fire can listen to samples on Timothy's site, but first, let's see what we think of LROOE.

AzEaglesFan
05-03-2009, 02:03 AM
Soda, do I remember these right:
Glenn song- Part of Me Part of You
Don song -Heart of the Matter
Joe song - Life's Been Good
Timothy song- The Shadow
Eagles album-Hotel California

Have you done Eagles's Song already??

Freypower
05-03-2009, 11:26 PM
Soda, do I remember these right:
Glenn song- Part of Me Part of You
Don song -Heart of the Matter
Joe song - Life's Been Good
Timothy song- The Shadow
Eagles album-Hotel California

Have you done Eagles's Song already??

Before we did Tim's Survivor these games were all done by album or compilation album. So we did Survivor games for each Eagles album. It would be impossible to do a Survivor game including every Eagles song. I think we did one with the winning songs from each album.

sodascouts
05-03-2009, 11:31 PM
Yes, we called it "Eagles Song Survivor All-Stars" and put all the winners of each Eagles album survivor up against each other. The winner was Take It Easy.

sodascouts
05-04-2009, 12:33 PM
My pleasure guys - it was fun for me, too.

If anyone comes up with any more Survivor ideas, let me know! Dreamer suggested a Survivor for the videos, which I like except for that fact that in some cases (like Tim and the Eagles) there aren't very many.

Freypower
05-04-2009, 08:01 PM
I have always wanted to do Survivor games for all Glenn and Don's solo albums, but if there were not many participants it probably wouldn't be worth doing.

sodascouts
05-04-2009, 08:05 PM
I would love to do that if there were interest. Maybe we should start a separate thread for this.

TimothyBFan
05-05-2009, 07:32 AM
I don't know if you started a new thread or not-but my 2 cents--you know I'd be in on any survivor game! And would it really be a bad thing if to many participants? I don't understand why that wouldn't be worth it? It seems to me the more that participate the better. Am I missing something (remember-I'm the one that had so much trouble understanding the strategy of holding off on a vote-until this game and the ties)?

Ive always been a dreamer
05-05-2009, 10:12 AM
We have a thread in the Eagles forum for discussion and suggestions about the Survivor games that was started a while back. Maybe you could move this discussion over there Soda. Here's the link:

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=562&highlight=survivor

TBF - as far as participants, I think what everyone is saying is that the more participants in the games, the better. It wouldn't be very interesting to start a game if only a handful of people participate.

sodascouts
05-05-2009, 11:12 AM
Ah, thanks for reminding me of that thread, Dreamer! I'll move the posts there now.

Ive always been a dreamer
05-05-2009, 12:04 PM
NP Soda. Now, here are some of my thoughts on future Survivor games. As Soda mentioned, I thought we could do a Survivor game for Glenn's, Don's, and Joe's solo videos. Tim doesn't have that many videos even if you throw in the Poco ones that he appears on. However, Tim will apparently be coming out with another solo album later this year, and surely we can do a Survivor for that to make up for it. :thumbsup:

As far a doing some of the solo albums for the guys, I originally thought that not enough people would be familiar with the solo stuff to have an interesting game. However, the board has grown enough that it could possibly work now.

I think enough time has passed since we had the games for the 70's albums that we could actually repeat them at some point. By the time we get around to doing that, there will have been about a 3 three-year lapse since we first played those games. For those of us that were around back then, it seems almost impossible that it has been that long. I guess time flies when you're having fun! :wink:

Troubadour
05-05-2009, 12:13 PM
Great ideas, Dreamer. I'd love to join in with the solo vids and the '70s albums (as I wasn't around when the latter was done before.)

Glennsallnighter
05-05-2009, 12:38 PM
Great ideas there Dreamer. Its true how much we have grown and some members haven't participated in a 70's album survivor. Also peoples opinions of songs can change and songs can grow on one, so a survivor of say the HC album could be very different to the last one.

Someone mentioned also a survivor of pictures of either the group (ie atop 20 of pics) or any/all of the lads solo.

TimothyBFan
05-05-2009, 12:39 PM
TBF - as far as participants, I think what everyone is saying is that the more participants in the games, the better. It wouldn't be very interesting to start a game if only a handful of people participate.


Dreamer--I'm an idiot and apparently illiterate also!! :hilarious: I just misread a couple of the above post and thought they were talking about the game not being fun if to few played. Ignore me when I go on like that!

And for the record--all of those ideas sound like so much fun (but hard work for Soda and Dreamer). Thanks to both Soda and Dreamer for doing these games and spending so much spare time putting them together and tallying the votes etc!!!! You guys are wonderful!!! :thumbsup:

Koala
05-05-2009, 01:00 PM
A 70s album servivor game sounds good for me, too!
it make surely a lot of fun!

Freypower
05-05-2009, 08:32 PM
It was cynical me who wondered about whether some games would be 'worth it' because there may not be a high participation rate. Judging from the muted reaction to the Allnighter anniversary topic, I do not know if playing Survivor based on Glenn's albums would work. I would play them, Soda, Dreamer, GA, GEF (if she's around) and Brooke would play them, but I don't know who else would. I would like to do them, even though I already know which track would win Strange Weather (and I also know which tracks would win Building The Perfect Beast & End of the Innocence).

I think Glenn, Don and Joe have enough videos each to have separate games. I already started thinking about how I would vote in Glenn & Don games.

Regarding photo Survivors I can't help feeling there might be too much diversity of opinion and I really don't know how the photos would be selected.

I am all for revisiting the 70s album Survivors for the benefit of our newer members.

AzEaglesFan
05-06-2009, 12:58 AM
I recently got ahold of a Strange Weather CD and I love it. I now have 3 of Glenn solo CDs. Do you know off hand how many he made if we were to have a Survivor Game.

Freypower
05-06-2009, 07:03 PM
He made (how I wish I could say he 'has' made) four solo albums, the same number as Don: No Fun Aloud, The Allnighter, Soul Searchin' and Strange Weather. Don's albums are I Can't Stand Still, Building The Perfect Beast, The End Of The Innocence and Inside Job.

AZ, I am glad you love Strange Weather, but I don't want to pre-empt anything.

Ive always been a dreamer
05-06-2009, 11:27 PM
AZ - I'm glad you love the Strange Weather CD. I do too. It is my all time favorite of all of the Eagles solo CDs. To add to what FP said, Glenn has also put out a live CD (Glenn Frey Live), and a couple of "hits" compilation CD's (Solo Collection and Millinneum Collection). Don has also put out a greatest hits CD (Actual Miles).

As far as the Survivor games, thanks everyone for the feedback. I think it's great that so many people seem to enjoy playing the games. It is fun for me, too.

UK TimFan
05-05-2011, 11:52 AM
Following on from the discussion about one song being immune for the whole of the Desperado 2011 Survivor, here are my thoughts for possible rule changes (which work together)

1. A song cannot be made immune for two or more consecutive rounds by the same person, but it can be made immune by different people. Before anyone who has already made a song immune once can make it immune again it has to lose immunity.

2. If a person wins immunity for two consecutive questions, for their second immunity they have to chose a song they have not previously made immune.

3. No-one is allowed to win more than two consecutive immunity questions.

Sounds a bit complicated, but I'll try to explain with some examples. :smile:

Example 1

Round two - Ann wins immunity for her favourite song, Desperado.
Round three - Beryl wins immunity, and her favourite song is also Desperado.
Round four - Caroline wins immunity, and her favourite song is Desperado.
Round five - Ann wins immunity again, but is banned from saving Desperado because she's already saved it once in this 'chain', so she saves Outlaw man.
Round six - winner Ann, immune any song except Desperado and Outlaw man, both of which she has chosen previously.
Round seven - Ann not eligible to win immunity as she has won previous two consecutive rounds
Round eight - Ann now able to win immunity and for any song.

Example 2.

Round two - winner Ann, immune Desperado.
Round three - winner Beryl, immune Desperado.
Round four - winner Caroline, immune Desperado.
Round five - winner Debbie, immune Saturday night
Round six - winner Ann, immune Desperado
Round seven - winner Ann, immune any song except Desperado which she chose in the previous round.
Round eight - Ann not eligible to win immunity as she has won previous two consecutive rounds
Round nine - Ann now able to win immunity and for any song.

The rule about different people being able to make the same song immune means that everyone has a chance to save 'their' song. If I win immunity why should my choice of song be penalised because it's also someone else's favourite song? Yes, you could still get the same song being immune all the way through Survivor, but if different people are chosing it then it must be fairly popular.

Hopefully, this makes some sort of sense.
If not, I will try to explain it a little more clearly. :grin:

AzEaglesFan
05-05-2011, 06:48 PM
I don't see any reason for the rules to be changed. There have been other games that songs have been immune more an once and it didn't seem to cause any trouble.
It only seemed to became a big deal this time because of the song that was chosen.

Freypower
05-05-2011, 06:56 PM
I don't see any reason for the rules to be changed. There have been other games that songs have been immune more an once and it didn't seem to cause any trouble.
It only seemed to became a big deal this time because of the song that was chosen.

I don't know how to say this diplomatically; it was a big deal not because of the song that was chosen but because the same person answered every single question & then made the same song immune every single round. What is required is restrictions on how often the same person can answer immune questions & then how often they can make one song immune.

I can see UKTF's suggestion working.

MikeA
05-05-2011, 09:03 PM
I'm not sure why the rules need to change myself. WhiteCap devoted the time to be on the spot when the immunization question was stated and she had the knowledge of the album and the songs on it to correctly answer each one. That in itself is quite a feat. It's never been done before to my knowledge. I don't there is need for a handicap. I think that when someone has that kind of skill and knowledge, they should be granted the reward.

Me, I'd never be able to come up with the answers as quickly as did WC and I am very impressed. It all works out in the end. You are going to come down to TWO songs that have to get there without immunization so if there truly is enough desire, immunization is not going to get a song into the finals.

UK TimFan
05-05-2011, 09:51 PM
I'm another who totally agrees with Mike.
And I'm in awe of Whitcap's knowledge and typing speed. :-)

If a song could win immunity through to the final, then it would be a different matter, but under the current rules there is the opportunity to eliminate it when there are three songs left.
Yes, it is frustrating when possibly your least favourite song is continually being made immune, but that's the game and is no different (as has already been pointed out) to the TV version when someone who was highly unpopular kept winning immunity every week.

Although I suggested possible new rules, I would much prefer to keep the present ones. Even though the possibility of me knowing the answer to an immunity question is about one in a hundred, and my chance of typing fast enough to win immunity for 'my' song about one in a thousand. :-)

EaglesKiwi
05-06-2011, 05:13 AM
I would like to see the rules changed, partly because not everyone has the chance to be online when the immunity question is posted. I certainly admire people who make a big effort to be there at the time, but don't want to see the same person picking the same song all the way through - even if it's one I love.

If we say the same person can't answer more than 2 immunity questions in a row it may give more of a chance to other Borderers and other songs. JMHO.:)

TimothyBFan
05-06-2011, 08:08 AM
This game has always worked beautifully in the past but this time it seemed to fail miserably. Before anyone goes off about what I just said, I am NOT trying to be mean or difficult.

I also do not believe that WC did anything wrong, she had every right, under the rules, to be the first one at the question and to make any song she wanted immune as often as she wished. Any of us could of done the same thing. Personally, I do not have the ambition or the time to sit by the computer at 8 pm every other night to wait for the question so I can make the same song immune and apparently no one else did during this game either, or it wouldn't have turned out this way. In the past, you can tell when there is more than 1 person trying to get the immunity question answered first because you will see more than 1 post with an answer and Soda or Dreamer determine who was first and which is correct. This time I did not notice that, or else I missed it.

Did it make the game less fun to play because it happened? FOR ME it certainly did BUT, again, it was well within the rules for it to happen and I or someone else could of changed it.

I guess bottom line is that under the existing rules if someone truly believes that a song is worthy of immunity the whole game, then so be it. I would like to think that none of us here would intentionally do that just to be aggravating or to prove a point because others are getting disturbed by it.

I respect WC's tenacity in keeping with it.

So bottom line for me is I don't want to see the rules changed because it has always worked and I'd hate for this one game to make it all change. Besides, I hate trying to learn new rules-you know.... old dog, new trick. :hilarious:

Now I want to warn you all next time we do Long Run in Survivor---I'm going for the win on Disco Strangler!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

UK TimFan
05-06-2011, 08:35 AM
Now I want to warn you all next time we do Long Run in Survivor---I'm going for the win on Disco Strangler!!!!!!!:thumbsup:
You might have a job, as you can't (unless the rules change :smile: ) win immunity for it in round one. :laugh:

TimothyBFan
05-06-2011, 08:39 AM
:brickwall: Hadn't thought of that!!! :cuss: No respect once again for Disco Strangler!

MikeA
05-06-2011, 08:46 AM
Oh GOD WILLIE: DEATH to DISCO!

Prettymaid
05-06-2011, 08:55 AM
I agree with everything TBF said, except for that last line about Disco Strangler. :fear:

Brooke
05-06-2011, 10:14 AM
You know, Willie's right. (Except for DS!) Wc didn't do anything wrong according to the rules and more power to her for being so diligent. Any of us could have done the same if we'd really wanted to. I probably wouldn't be fast enough to win, but that's just the way it goes. :shrug:

The game has worked so far and if it's done like the original Survivor, then why change anything? It's really a lot of fun and this one has probably sparked the most discussion of any.

Thanks Soda and Dreamer for all your hard work on it, too! Great job! :thumbsup:

And I'm with Mike, Death to Disco! :yuck:

Ive always been a dreamer
05-06-2011, 12:39 PM
Well – I’m going to offer a few thoughts here as well because I have to disagree with a couple of the premises that folks are basing their opinions on here. There are a few things that haven’t been mentioned here that I think need to be taken into consideration.

First of all, I don’t think that our game is just like the TV show, and therefore our rules should be. While I think we are modeled after the TV show – we are not the same. Our games differ from the TV show in the following ways:

1. The objective of the TV show is to “win at all cost”. That is in direct contrast to our objective here, which is to have a fun activity on the board so members can vote on the songs. We encourage discussion of the songs and, hopefully, promote interest in the band’s music. Our games are supposed to be played in the spirit of “may the best song win” as determined by “majority rule” Now, we are probably at fault in that maybe we should have made these objectives clearer, but this has always been our sole reason for taking the trouble to play the game.

2. Immunity questions in our games differ from the TV show because our game has the time factor built in – the quickest has the advantage. Because of our cutoff time, there is already an inherit unfairness because not everyone can be on the board to attempt to answer – in other words, all players do not have an equal opportunity to answer the questions like in the TV show. If we are going to have the immunity questions, we want make them as fair as we possibly can. We also want to try to encourage participation, not discourage it.

Secondly, I also don’t agree with the notion that these games have been working very well in the recent past. Those of us that have been around these from the very beginning may have a different perspective on this, but I can tell you, from my perspective, the game has become increasingly contentious and divisive in the last year or so. If you want to take the time to investigate this, go back and read some of the earlier threads. They are much more civil even though we had many disagreements about the songs. Only in the last year or so have we had this level of conflict and it keeps getting worse as people have declared that they were acting to seeking revenge, tick people off, and most recently even outright attempts to create fake users to throw the game. From a personal standpoint these games are requiring much more time and effort to moderate because of the increasingly tense and competitive environment. Unlike the TV show – we are trying to promote civility and friendly competition and want to discourage behavior that promotes divisiveness and conflict. When the games become more stressful than fun, it seems to me that we are defeating our purpose.

I think all of us who participate in the game should start by examining our own behavior to see if we can do more to keep the tone civil and friendly. If you suspect that something you’re doing is pissing a lot of people off, then maybe it’s not a good idea. As I always say – “just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should”.

In addition, I think the admin and moderators should take some time in the coming weeks to examine if there are changes that could be made that will promote more civility and fun in the games.

Freypower
05-06-2011, 06:52 PM
I agree with everything Dreamer said & just want to add that as far as trying to answer the immunity questions, I did try. On one occasion I actually got as far as posting & left the post as evidence that I had tried. But as the game wore on it became more & more obvious that I was going to be beaten every time so I more or less gave up. That is what Dreamer refers to when she talks about people being discouraged from participating.

So for Brooke & Willie to say that 'anyone could have done the same' unfortunately isn't correct because nobody else could get there quickly enough.

Also there was no interest, once it became clear that the same song was immune every time. I found myself wondering what was the point. I also thought when people made it clear that they thought Bitter Creek had been immune long enough that some concessions would be made (as I have said I was in this position for several rounds during the Frey Video Survivor game. I felt that in the interests of fairness that I needed to stop protecting a particular video).

As Dreamer said hopefully the moderators will be able to find a solution to this before the next game is played. I really enjoy these games; I would hate to see them go.

EagleLady
05-06-2011, 07:49 PM
I don't want the rules to be changed. Like others have said, WC Did nothing wrong, Just following the rules of the game.

MikeA
05-06-2011, 10:41 PM
I'd hate to see the rules changed.

I think the way it is adds drama to the game. And as we can see from that last Survivor Game focused on "Desperado", it is OBVIOUS that we need more drama! <LOL>

I certainly don't think anyone was disinterested or bored. Frustrated and annoyed maybe, but not bored!

Seems to me it was a success and the songs that everyone pretty much expected to come out on top, came out on top. I mean, the only other track on the album that the most of the people (not talking just here on the Border) knew anything about was Doolin-Dalton and I don't think it would have had any better chance of beating out the Big Two than Bitter Creek had.

But I definitely DID enjoy the game..this time as a spectator. I thought there was some very good thought-provoking discussion that had substance to it and after all, that is what this "game" is supposed to be about.

Prettymaid
05-07-2011, 12:02 PM
Seems to me it was a success and the songs that everyone pretty much expected to come out on top, came out on top.

Show of hands - who did not have Bitter Creek in their top three? :wave:

UK TimFan
05-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Show of hands - who did not have Bitter Creek in their top three? :wave:
Judging by their first round votes - Soda, GlennLover, TimothyBfan, timfan, Brooke, EagleLady, Glennsallnighter, luvthelighthouse. :smile:

I make no secret of the fact that it's my favourite off the album.

UK TimFan
05-07-2011, 02:24 PM
To save the thread going off-topic with regard to PM's question, I've started a separate thread here (https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?p=147279#post147279) which sort-of asks the same question but in a slightly different way.

pueblo47
05-07-2011, 07:18 PM
Ok, here's the right thread where this part of the post belongs...

There has been enough debate of BC that it would be nice if this particular game and its subject would fade away. Everyone has had their say, some a lot more than others and it's very clear what everyone thinks.

Now can this subject get back to the rules and suggestions WITHOUT anymore talking about the last game? Thank you all for reading this and this is all I have to say on it.

sodascouts
05-07-2011, 09:28 PM
Welll, pueblo, it's a bit difficult to discuss why you feel a rule needs to be changed if you don't talk about the incident that caused this discussion in the first place.

whitcap inadvertently created a feeling of resentment against the song "Bitter Creek" by making it immune so many times. whitcap did nothing wrong, but the reaction to BC's constant immunity stems from plain old human nature. As a rule, people like to see folks earn their place, not have it given to them. "Bitter Creek" is just a song and this is just a game, but nevertheless, the idea that it wasn't "earning" its spot like the other songs made some unhappy or at the very least frustrated.

For those who believe that all this is just because the song in question was "Bitter Creek," I've got news for you. This happens ANY time one song is made immune many times in a row. I know because I've seen it before.

You see, I first ran this game on a Fleetwood Mac board. A friend and I were running a Survivor for the album Tusk. There was an ardent Stevie Nicks fan who was always the first to answer correctly, and he always made the song "Sara" immune (it was made immune 11 times in a row). There were a lot of people, especially Lindsey fans, who thought the song was dreck and said so in no uncertain terms. Every time he saved it, more resentment rose against it, and nastier comments were made. This is in spite of the fact that "Sara" was Tusk's biggest hit and well-liked by the majority of the population. Like I said, it's just human nature to resent that kind of an advantage no matter who/what is receiving it.

When I remember that Tusk Survivor and then look at the Desperado Survivor thread, I see some notable differences, though. Unlike the very nasty criticisms in the Tusk Survivor, the criticisms in Desperado Survivor were very softball. No one said they hated any of the songs; no one insulted band members. In fact, many people complimented songs even as they voted them off. So, please, enough with the persecution complex.

Well, here I am, looking at this thread, reading everyone's opinions (which I do value) and trying to decide what to do. In the end, I make the call when it comes to the Survivor rules. I created them and if I feel it's called for, I can modify them.

My goal is simple. I want this game to be as fun as possible.

It's not about me, or getting my favorite song in the winner's circle. It's about whether or not people are enjoying themselves.

When people tell me that they're not having as much fun this game because the same song is always made immune, I pay attention. If modifying the rules will make the game more fun, I'll do so.

I instituted the immunity question to mimic the immunity challenges of the real Survivor. Dreamer is right that the way I set it up is inherently unfair, but I couldn't think of a better way to do it, and I wanted the immunity element because it makes things less predictable.

I still feel the immunity element makes the game more fun and exciting, so I'm keeping it.

However, I am seriously considering modifying it because of all the negativity that sprang from it in the game. What's to prevent it from happening again unless I do something to make that impossible?

sodascouts
05-07-2011, 10:08 PM
BTW, if you're curious, here's an example of what I meant:

http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=16077

(We had so many people playing -and arguing - that the game was split up into four threads)

Note: "chiffon head" is a derisive nickname for a hardcore Stevie fan.

We had to re-start the game after some people joined and voted under fake IDs. One guy (CarneVaca) got banned as a result - not directly because of the Survivor, but because of the multiple IDs. And look, there was coalition voting too!

It's nothing personal. It's not about you, it's not about which Eagle is most favored, it's the nature of the game.

PS Reading that thread I can see that I was a lot more snarky back then. Ah, youth. ;)

Annabel
05-09-2011, 09:19 AM
:hmm: How about ..... keeping the immunity question but instead of people answering on the thread and first one right gets their choice made immune, people have a longer period of time, (helps those of us in other parts of the world :shrug:), and have to PM you their answer along with their immune song choice. You then 'draw one person out of the hat' and post who won and what the immune song is. Just a thought and hope that makes sense. :lol:

Have to say too I am loving playing the games I've joined in with. :yay:

luvthelighthouse
05-09-2011, 10:43 AM
I'm fine with the rules as they are...

However, if they "had" to change. I guess I would say, the same person couldn't answer more than two times in a row.

Now granted, two different people may make the same song immune... but I think that's still fair.

In real survivor, if the same person keeps winning immunity ...they deserve it. Since the name of the game is Survivor and you do what you have to in order to survive... I see no issue w/the rules as they stand. There are always going to be people who don't want a certain song immune... but that's just part of the game.

UK TimFan
05-09-2011, 02:16 PM
:hmm: How about ..... keeping the immunity question but instead of people answering on the thread and first one right gets their choice made immune, people have a longer period of time, (helps those of us in other parts of the world :shrug:), and have to PM you their answer along with their immune song choice. You then 'draw one person out of the hat' and post who won and what the immune song is. Just a thought and hope that makes sense. :lol:

Have to say too I am loving playing the games I've joined in with. :yay:
I did think of that suggestion, but -
how long are you going give people to answer the question? Fairness because of a time difference would mean a minimum of 6 hours. i.e. the Desperado immunity questions were posted just after 1am UK time. So if you assume that everyone in the UK gets up at 6.30am and then immediately switches on their computer, that does give them time to answer the question before 7am (within the 6 hours). However, that then means that the cut-off time for answers is now 1am in the US, and I can't see the US/Canadian mods wanting to sit up until that time just to pick a winner. :smile: I think I've worked it out correctly that 7am UK would be 4pm in Sydney, and if she works perhaps not a good time for Freypower to start pulling names out of hats.
Apart from the fact that you can't assume that everyone in the UK is going to get up at 6.30am :smile:, if you extend the time for answering, you then have the dilemma of what time you're going to announce the winner and let the Survivor continue. If you extend the time for answering to say 23 hours (which gives an hour for the winner to be drawn) and then restart 24 hours after the immunity question was first asked I think you will have lost the impetus. It might not be too bad for the first few rounds but then it could drag.
If you allow say only six hours for the immunity question to be answered, you still have a problem with 'what time do you restart Survivor?' If you do it at the end of the six hours then you end up with the next round ending at 7am US time, 1pm UK time, and 10pm(?) Aussie time. And none of us will know either where we are or what day it is. :grin:
So yes, the present system is unfair to UK inhabitants unless you're prepared to stay up late. It's also unfair to US residents who are working a late shift, and Aussie residents who are working during the day, but that's life. As the song says, get over it. :laugh:

(With apologies to Borderers who live in countries I haven't mentioned. :smile:)

Annabel
05-09-2011, 02:34 PM
I did say it was just a thought. :shrug: Personally I don't see any need to change the rules, but then I don't get into any arguements / fights / whatevers over what I see as an enjoyable game.
As far as BC goes, I quite like the song and in fact I like it more now than I did before this round of the game. :ziplip:

UK TimFan
05-09-2011, 02:56 PM
My response wasn't meant as a personal 'attack' Melanie, so I hope you didn't read it that way. :hug:
I was just trying to point out (what are to me) the impracticalities of your suggestion.

I'm another who doesn't really see the need to alter the rules - in spite of my favourite songs usually getting voted off pretty quickly in any game. :weep:

Perhaps the present 'spat' has been enough to clear the air, make everyone think, and to remember that above all, our Survivors are just a game, and not life and death.

Annabel
05-09-2011, 03:08 PM
No offence taken :stunned: :fear::weep:;) :laugh: and I totally agree with you on this .......


Perhaps the present 'spat' has been enough to clear the air, make everyone think, and to remember that above all, our Survivors are just a game, and not life and death.

Ive always been a dreamer
05-10-2011, 11:54 AM
Perhaps the present 'spat' has been enough to clear the air, make everyone think, and to remember that above all, our Survivors are just a game, and not life and death.

I am in total agreement with you on this point. That’s why I find the dissention and attempts at revenge or cheating by grown adults to be really sad. But that's in the past. The bottom line for me is that the admin has made it clear that the objective of this game is for the participants to have fun. So going forward, if any individual is unwilling to commit to making sure the way they play the game aligns with that stated objective, then that individual should opt out of participating in the game. Unfortunately, if players aren’t willing to do that on their own, then changes have to be made.

Just as you said – it is just a game after all and shouldn’t be taken so seriously. And while I wholeheartedly agree with this, I also believe that out of respect for our fellow members, if we are going to play the game, it should be played with integrity.

I apologize if this comes across as a lecture because that is certainly not my intent. I'm just voicing my opinion on something that I feel strongly about.