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View Full Version : Essay on the dismissals of DonF and Steven Adler



travlnman2
04-04-2016, 09:22 PM
Okay so I decided to start this thread noting the similar circumstances between the firing of Don Felder and Steven Adler from the Eagles and Guns N Roses respectively. The main topic being were they LEGAL?
I will start with Steven Adler.

Background and Firing
The drummer for the band on Appetite For Destruction(and contrary to popular belief not the original drummer that was Rob Gardner.) After the successful Appetite For Destruction Tour in 1988-1989 Adler became heavily addicted to drugs and heroin which became so unstable that he could not perform and caused problems in the studio specifically with the song Civil War on which the drum track was reportedly edited from over 60 different takes and the song was the last he would ever record with the band, the song was released as the opening track to Use Your Illusion 2. His last performance with the band was on April 7th 1990 at Farm Aid 4 and was fired on July 11th 1990.

Lawsuit and Aftermath
In July of 1991 Steven Adler filled a lawsuit against Guns N Roses claiming unlawful termination and breach of contract. (Here is a video of Axl testifying against Adler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vrmv8huVUw)
In his lawsuit he claimed that while he was in rehab the drugs he was prescribed "interfered with his "concentration" he also claimed that a contract was signed that he gave away his royalties. (Later the rest of the band members claimed to have been forced to sign a document by Axl giving him the right to the name which you can find here http://gnrtruth.proboards.com/thread/2489/twits-tweets?page=97 you have to scroll down to the 5th post to find it)

Adler won the lawsuit(GNR reportedly had bad lawyers)and was paid $2 million dollars and 15% of royalties to everything he recorded up until his firing. However Adler has never badmouthed his band mates "intentionally" and is strongly rumored to make a few guest appearances with the band after he recovers from a reported back surgery.

Now on to Felder
Background and Firing
Felder joined the Eagles in 1974 and was "reportedly" made a full partner in the bands corporation Eagles LTD. Before the reunion in 1994 Don "claimed" to have been forced into an agreement that essentially made the 74 agreement null and void and made him a "hired hand". Forced to take it or not be a part of the band Felder took it and the band went on tour from 1994 to 1996. After the tour Felder reportedly became increasingly unhappy
with the new agreement and because he stuck to the null and void 1974 agreement kept sending letters to Glenn and Don(Henley) requesting to examine the financial documents of the band. Eventually rumors began to spring up that Felder was causing problems in the studio. His last performance with the band was on December 31st 1999 and was fired on February 6th 2001.

Lawsuit and Aftermath
After being fired Felder fired a lawsuit against "Eagles, Ltd., a California corporation; Don Henley, an individual; Glenn Frey, an individual; and Does 1–50", alleging wrongful termination, breach of implied-in-fact contract, and breach of fiduciary duty,.
The case was settled out of court with the agreements not being disclosed to the public. Don now tours with his own band.

Similarities between the two cases and were they fired legally?
Both Felder and Steven Adler sued their respective bands claiming as a partner in the cooperation they could not be fired. However in Felder's case we do not know Henley and Glenn's side but if they went and agreed to let him go (Felder claims that Joe and Tim are not partners) together the majority has a vote. This is EXACTLY what happened to Adler the band at the time Axl,Izzy,Slash and Duff Mckagan were sick of his abuse and not being able to work voted him out and he was let go because they had the majority vote. So in closing they were fired legally as the majority ( Glenn and Don H and the rest of GNR) had more power so they could legally fire them and since they signed a document giving away their respected shares in a cooperation gave the rest of the partners the authority to get rid of them.

What do you think?

Olivia
04-06-2016, 09:11 AM
I'm sorry but I don't see Don F as "bad mouthing" his bandmates for wanting what was in their original Eagles LTD agreement.

I'll have to read up more on the GNR situation to see what that's about.

If bands make an agreement among their bandmates in the beginning, you can't go back and change it just because you don't like the guy or he's questioning what's supposed to fairly be theirs.

travlnman2
04-06-2016, 09:32 AM
I'm sorry but I don't see Don F as "bad mouthing" his bandmates for wanting what was in their original Eagles LTD agreement.

I'll have to read up more on the GNR situation to see what that's about.

If bands make an agreement among their bandmates in the beginning, you can't go back and change it just because you don't like the guy or he's questioning what's supposed to fairly be theirs.

But the band was broken up between 1980 and 1994 so all those agreements were null and void it's like a player renegotiating a contract new terms another 1994 agreements were renegotiating because they were inactive for 14 years. Steven Adler was fired because he was always being high and couldn't work he was a partner but was voted out by the MAJORITY. Same thing with Feldsr and since he signed the 1994 argrement he could be legally fired

Girl From Yesterday
04-06-2016, 10:14 AM
I'm sorry but I don't see Don F as "bad mouthing" his bandmates for wanting what was in their original Eagles LTD agreement.

I'll have to read up more on the GNR situation to see what that's about.

If bands make an agreement among their bandmates in the beginning, you can't go back and change it just because you don't like the guy or he's questioning what's supposed to fairly be theirs.


At this point I have to agree with you here . I have always wished that the Eagles could have taken a page from one of my most revered bands Queen.
There was a lot of tension and infighting in the band and the possibility of the band breaking up for good was a very big possibility.So Fred ( who stood to lose probably the most ) proposed that they all get equal credit for any and all songs from that point forward.He reasoned that if they wrote it or not each member contributed in some way to each song and as a band they should share in the credits and royalties equally .
That lead to a much more relaxed atmosphere and Fred has said in interviews it actually lead to more contributions coming from members who,up to that point had not written as much and a much more relaxed and friendly atmosphere in the band.
It also lead to , in my opinion, one of their best albums , Innuendo.
Other bands have adopted the same philosophy with much success. To name a few bands who adopted this practice....REM, Suoergrass,Poison, The Doors,Coldplay,Van Halen,Sex Pistols, Blnd Melon,Deep Purple , Velvet Underground , and the list goes on.Blind Melon went so far as to have it written as " All songs written by Blind Melon as a band "
It's not a foreign concept and I really respect and admire bands that practice this.
I'm a big fan of the 70's Eagles line up and always wished they could have taken this approach and stayed together "as a band "

UndertheWire
04-06-2016, 10:30 AM
I've been putting together my own essay on the Eagles corporation, so fwiw, here it is.

About the contracts, and this is based primarily on Felder’s book…

In 1980, the Eagles were owned by Eagles Ltd, a corporation with Frey, Henley and Felder as equal shareholders. Walsh and Schmit were not shareholders. All five, whether shareholders or not received an equal share of profits from performance and merchandise. Royalties from publishing came outside of this. Between them, Frey and Henley owned two thirds of the shares and therefore had a controlling interest. Of course, if Felder had been able to form an alliance with Henley, that would have changed.

In 1994, Eagles Ltd still had three shareholders. However, the proposal was to set up a new corporation for the HFO tour and record deal. All five would become shareholders but this time the shareholding would not be equal. Between them, Henley and Frey would own four sevenths of this new corporation – again, a controlling interest but just to make sure, their shares would be the only ones with voting rights. Walsh and Schmit would become shareholders for the first time and would be equal to Felder but not Frey or Henley (Note: I’m really not sure about this). Eagles Ltd was not dissolved and was still owned equally by Frey, Henley and Felder. Profit from earlier activities should still have gone through Eagles Ltd. Profit on the HFO tour would be distributed through the new company in proportion to the shareholdings.

When Felder was “fired” in 2001, he was offered a small amount of money for his shareholding in Eagles Ltd ($3,000?). My guess is this was based on a valuation of the tangible assets of Eagles Ltd – cash in the bank, office equipment etc – but took no account of the intangibles, the most valuable being the Eagles name (brand). The brand is used to promote records, videos, concerts and on merchandise and has potential to be used to promote a wider variety of products. How do you place a value on a name? I’m guessing that Felder’s move to dissolve Eagles Ltd was an attempt to force a valuation of all the assets.

Felder’s lawsuits had at least two components – his dismissal and whether he was receiving proper compensation for his share in Eagles Ltd. I’m only interested in the latter.

Eagles Ltd has assets that include archival material prior to 1994 and it’s been said that the release of such materials was part of the settlement deal.

Felder has hinted that he is still an owner of Eagles Ltd and makes money when the Eagle tour. My guess is that Eagles Ltd licenses the brand for the tour and for merchandise and Felder receives his share of these license fees.

I don’t think any of this affects publishing. When the Eagles play Hotel California and Those Shoes, Felder receives income from his publishing. In theory, Henley and Frey also receive publishing income when Felder plays their songs (in practice, this only happens if he has one of the top 200 US tours according to Pollstar so this is probably the first year that they’ll get anything).

One common error I see on the internet is that Felder is described as a “full partner” . A partnership is a different kind of entity to a corporation and is governed by different rules. When Felder was “fired” it was not two partners firing a third: it was a corporation either firing an employee or choosing not to renew the contract for services from a contractor, depending on how it was set up.

Another important aspect is that although Felder was an equal shareholder, he did not receive equal compensation for everything. As he relates in his book, it was agreed that he would only receive royalties (and I’m talking about the royalties that come from playing not writing) on the tracks that he’d played on. There were also arrangements so that those who had left the band continued to receive royalties for the tracks they’d played on. In the 90s, Bernie Leadon commented that the first Greatest Hits was like having an album go platinum every year, so clearly he was still benefiting. The arrangements for Randy were disclosed in a lawsuit and I assume there were similar arrangements for Bernie.

Randall held certain pieces of intellectual property, consisting of licenses and copyrights related to songs performed by the Eagles, a singing group to which he at one time belonged.   In 1978, Randall entered into a termination agreement with the Eagles.   In this agreement, Randall ceded all of this intellectual property to the Eagles in return for a royalties contract entitling him to a portion of proceeds from the sales of certain of the Eagles' recordings.   He has not been a shareholder, director, or member of the Eagles since that time.

Going back to the first Greatest Hits, 6 out of 10 tracks were recorded by the original four, with Felder only playing on four tracks. By my calculation, this means that Glenn, Henley, Bernie and Randy would each have received nearly three times as much as Felder in royalties from album sales. (Original four: 6/4 + 4/5 = 2.3, Felder 4/5 = 0.8 )

Felder's final straw was when he was offered a new contract for the "Selected Works" box set which he said meant that Glenn and Henley would be paid nearly three times as much as he would. However, Felder doesn't provide enough detail to judge whether this was as unfair as it sounds. The package included many songs that Felder didn't play on, so under the old arrangements, he would never have received as much as Henley and Frey but still more than he said he was offered. However, if his figure included songwriting royalties, then it might have been a reasonable offer.

travlnman2
04-06-2016, 10:37 AM
Great addition UTW. But have you noticed the simmilarties between Adler and Felder.

UndertheWire
04-06-2016, 11:14 AM
I don't know much about Adler or the way GnR were organised.

I think of a couple of big differences between Felder and Adler, though.
- Felder was sober and was capable of playing
- Although Adler wasn't the original drummer, he was the drummer on their first album, whereas Felder joined towards the end of the third album.

It's interesting to compare and contrast, though. Did you listen to that interview I posted on the GnR thread? It covered tactics used to force the record company to give the band a better deal even though the contract wasn't due for renewal. It reminded me of Azoff's dealings with Elektra.

I believe that when the Eagles started, all their publishing was shared, even though credits were assigned to individuals. Obviously, that changed.

Girl From Yesterday
04-06-2016, 12:21 PM
I don't know much about Adler or the way GnR were organised.

I think of a couple of big differences between Felder and Adler, though.
- Felder was sober and was capable of playing
- Although Adler wasn't the original drummer, he was the drummer on their first album, whereas Felder joined towards the end of the third album.

It's interesting to compare and contrast, though. Did you listen to that interview I posted on the GnR thread? It covered tactics used to force the record company to give the band a better deal even though the contract wasn't due for renewal. It reminded me of Azoff's dealings with Elektra.

I believe that when the Eagles started, all their publishing was shared, even though credits were assigned to individuals. Obviously, that changed.

That is interesting ! First thought that came to my mind was how much happier and relaxed with each other in the beginning .
Of course hard partying ... Sex and drugs and rock and roll does take its toll on a group of people who spend so much time together .

travlnman2
04-09-2016, 09:11 PM
I have another part to add.

Fielder said he never spoke with the band besides Bernie and Randy again after the lawsuit. I think I know why. I think that Glenn genuinely liked and RESPECTED Felder as a friend and a muscian. Here is some evidence.

From Felders autobiography when they were setting up Eagles LTD Bernie stated it was unfair that Felder gets an equal share because he wasn't there from the beginning. Here is a quote.

“There are no sidemen in this band,” Glenn said firmly, with his gruff voice. “We’ve all been there and we know what that’s like.” I was pleased and relieved to hear it.

A few more lines from a 1992 interview

"The song Hotel California was co written with Don Henley and Don Felder a often not recognized but INTEGRAL part of the Eagles in the latter half of the 1970s."

Glenn even offered his place in Hawaii for Felder and his family after the Long Night at Wrong Beach. From the book.

"Within a few days, I’d completely cooled down. I was in Hawaii, staying in a rented house with Susan and the kids, having a rare week off together. Glenn had offered me his place down there, but after the Cranston benefit, I decided not to take him up on the offer"

And when Glenn first mentioned him and Don thought they should get more money.

"Some players are more noteworthy and more famous, and they can command bigger salaries, like a quarterback. Others are just defensive linebackers who play OK but don’t get as much money."

This is completely true because Glenn and Don can not be replaced as they are Founding members and main songwriters and did more solo then Timothy Felder Bernie and Randy So this would be fair. I think this was the turning point because Glenn thought Felder was being ungrateful. because he was. Glenn personally asked Felder to join the band and took that final phone call from Felder.

If you watch Glenn's facial expressions in the documentary I can see the emotion when he was talking about Felders dismissal. I think he never wanted to get rid of Felder but they had to because apparently. Rumors from around that time say Felder was causing problems with contracts and preventing a record being made he had no choice. So when Felder got let go then he sued the band and published the book he saw this as the ultimate betrayal because of everything that he did for Felder over the years turned against him. So he decided to cut off ties.

UndertheWire
04-11-2016, 04:20 PM
I know it's disappointing when you make a long post, after a lot of thought, and then no one comments. So thank you for writing this.

My problem is that I don't know what went wrong between Glenn and Felder. I get the impression that even Felder isn't sure and now we're unlikely to ever know Glenn's side. Possibly just incompatible personalities.

AlreadyGone95
04-12-2016, 02:41 AM
I admit that I haven't done much research about Don Felder's firing or how the band divided its profits or who gets what, so I can't really comment on that.

I don't think that Glenn and Felder ever got along well, at least not like how Glenn and Don or Glenn and Joe got along. There always seemed to be friction between them. Eventually, that friction took its toll twice. During the 14 year vacation, Glenn mentioned Felder in interviews and even praised him as a guitarist. I don't know if it vice versa because Felder wasn't in the public spotlight hardly. Point being, Glenn never said a bad word, publicly, that I know of, about Felder until the documentary. I think that Glenn liked Don Felder for his abilities as a musician, not so much his personality.

By contrast, Don Felder doesn't horribly badmouth Glenn or Don. He just lets others do it for him by occasionally stirring the pot, like his Facebook post about the Grammy Tribute, which was deleted. At one point in time, Don Felder did want Glenn and Don to be seen as the evil gods who bullied him alot over the course of 12 or so years. That can be evidenced by his book. After Glenn's passing, Felder did seem somewhat sincere in his grief and sorrow. In the Rolling Stone verbal history of Glenn, Felder said that he wished that he and Glenn could've had a beer together and buried the hatchet.

One thing that is different from GnR vs. the Eagles is the split of fractions. Felder is the only Eagle to remain estranged from the group. Bernie was part of the HOTE tour, and Randy might have been had he been healthy enough. The original GnR lineup hasn't worked that out yet, not with Izzy Strandlin.

travlnman2
04-12-2016, 07:24 AM
May I say one thing. GNR has never advertised the current tour as a a reunion they never broke up it is Slash and Diff rejoining the existing band and the original lineup was Axl/Izzy/Tracii Guns/Ole Bech and Rob Gardner

Freypower
04-12-2016, 06:39 PM
I admit that I haven't done much research about Don Felder's firing or how the band divided its profits or who gets what, so I can't really comment on that.

I don't think that Glenn and Felder ever got along well, at least not like how Glenn and Don or Glenn and Joe got along. There always seemed to be friction between them. Eventually, that friction took its toll twice. During the 14 year vacation, Glenn mentioned Felder in interviews and even praised him as a guitarist. I don't know if it vice versa because Felder wasn't in the public spotlight hardly. Point being, Glenn never said a bad word, publicly, that I know of, about Felder until the documentary. I think that Glenn liked Don Felder for his abilities as a musician, not so much his personality.

By contrast, Don Felder doesn't horribly badmouth Glenn or Don. He just lets others do it for him by occasionally stirring the pot, like his Facebook post about the Grammy Tribute, which was deleted. At one point in time, Don Felder did want Glenn and Don to be seen as the evil gods who bullied him alot over the course of 12 or so years. That can be evidenced by his book. After Glenn's passing, Felder did seem somewhat sincere in his grief and sorrow. In the Rolling Stone verbal history of Glenn, Felder said that he wished that he and Glenn could've had a beer together and buried the hatchet.

One thing that is different from GnR vs. the Eagles is the split of fractions. Felder is the only Eagle to remain estranged from the group. Bernie was part of the HOTE tour, and Randy might have been had he been healthy enough. The original GnR lineup hasn't worked that out yet, not with Izzy Strandlin.

Just in the book & numerous interviews. I thought he was sincere about Glenn's death until his unbelievable petulance over the Grammy tribute.