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DonFan
12-03-2007, 02:57 AM
From a review about the new album in the online paper, The Statesman:

Witness No More Walks in the Wood, a harmony-rich, part-a cappella showcase with words adapted from a work by the US poet and Professor Emeritus at Yale, John Hollander. Henley came across the poem (then entitled An Old-Fashioned Song) while perusing The Oxford Dictionary of American Poetry. Having set it to music and made a demo on which he sang all four harmonies himself, he asked Hollander, now in his seventies, for his blessing. “He sent back a very cordial note saying that we could do the song. I said, ‘Great! Go and get yourself a good lawyer, because this is the music business!’"

Freypower
12-03-2007, 06:00 PM
That tends to indicate that Joe does appear on the song. I hope so. This should replace Seven Bridges Road in the setlist. Not necessarily at the start of the show but maybe before the acoustic set.

sodascouts
12-03-2007, 06:13 PM
Since they were practicing it for live performance, perhaps they had the same thought - although the fact it didn't make the Nokia shows doesn't bode well.

While the song's harmonies are beautiful, it's not my favorite melodically. It reminds me of some of the doxology-type songs we would sing in church, where we would try to make Bible verses that weren't intended to be sung into songs and it got a bit awkward with the melody.

EasyFeeling
12-04-2007, 09:07 AM
Like Soda I really enjoy the harmonies, they sound wonderful but I'm not a big fan of the melody.

Freypower
12-04-2007, 06:44 PM
I am afraid I don't understand these criticisms of the melody. What do you think it should have sounded like? The emphasis is on the accapella vocals. An elaborate, sweeping melody a) would have detracted from the vocals; b) would probably have been too hard to sync the word to and then to sing.

sodascouts
12-04-2007, 07:05 PM
Ideally, the melody would have a more satisfying structure that sounds more cohesive and less meandering. For an example of the ideal, see "Seven Bridges Road." That has a terrific melody that doesn't detract from the vocals in any way.

NMWITW is a good song, don't get me wrong - just not the strongest on the album.

DonFan
12-04-2007, 07:12 PM
Well, I love NMWITW, and I sincerely hope it makes it to the new set list.

However, the main reason I posted that little writeup was for Don's comment to the esteemed professor to "hire a good lawyer--this is the music business!" :lol:

Freypower
12-04-2007, 07:15 PM
Ideally, the melody would have a more satisfying structure that sounds more cohesive and less meandering. For an example of the ideal, see "Seven Bridges Road." That has a terrific melody that doesn't detract from the vocals in any way.

NMWITW is a good song, don't get me wrong - just not the strongest on the album.

Not being a musician, I don't think I'm qualified to state whether the melody is either 'cohesive' or 'meandering'. But if it is 'meandering' it fits the lyrical theme of people 'wandering home' and the sens of loss. This is a sad song, not an uplifting one like Seven Bridges Road.

scottside
12-04-2007, 07:56 PM
I think I understand what Soda means in her post. In "Seven Bridges Road" the vocals just jump out and grab you. It's not the same with NMWITW because the melody is not as linear and memorable. The first time I heard the song I was really disappointed that they chose a song like this to really feature their ensemble singing. It has since grown on me a lot because I've played it over and over again to being real familiar with the structure of it.

On the subject of harmonies, does anyone here beside me think that Glenn is frequently buried in the vocal mix when he sings harmonies on this album? I can't hear him at all in WITW and on a number of other songs sung by others (Do Something and the title song are also examples), I can't place his voice in the mix at all. Don does his own harmonies on the title song in the verses, which struck me as being odd.

Freypower
12-04-2007, 08:04 PM
You can hear Glenn clearly in the lines in LROOE before the chorus. When Don is singing 'silent stars blinking in the blackness of an endless sky/cold silver satellites, ghostly caravans passing by' etc and on each similar part except for 'back home I was so certain'.... it's Glenn singing with him.

He's easily audible in Do Something. He is harder to hear in Waiting In The Weeds. Listen for later in the song when you get to 'the tide's eternal tune' and then you will hear him.

Maleah
12-04-2007, 08:16 PM
I remember my music teacher once telling me that the evidence of a very good harmony singer was when you had a hard time distinguishing them in the group. That's one thing I notice about the Eagles....sometimes I can pick them out....but a lot of times they're so smooth that is really difficult. This usually happens with Don or Glenn for me. Very impressive!

sodascouts
12-04-2007, 08:19 PM
That's exactly what I mean scottside - thanks.

FP - I don't think you have to be a musician to judge structure, but if it makes you feel any better, I did play violin for seven years back in school, took piano for two years as a kid, and sung in the church choir for 12 years. ;)

scottside, I think Glenn is more difficult to hear than Tim and Don in the harmonies - maybe because Tim is high end? - but I can hear him in the parts FP identifies. With WITW, it took several listens before I was able to discern him at the end segment. I also hear Don doubling on some parts. I think this is just another symptom of them doing so much work individually and in separate studios.

The exception is Fast Company, where Glenn's harmony dominates the chorus to the degree that it can almost pass for a shared lead.

Freypower
12-04-2007, 09:21 PM
You see - this is the funny thing. I don't think Glenn's voice is that dominant in Fast Company. :?

sodascouts
12-04-2007, 09:59 PM
You see - this is the funny thing. I don't think Glenn's voice is that dominant in Fast Company. :?

Just on the chorus.

Maleah
12-05-2007, 12:13 AM
I agree that Glenn's voice is very dominant in the chorus, but I think he's heard pretty often on the verses as well

Freypower
12-05-2007, 09:06 PM
I think he's easier to hear in the verses than he is in the chorus. :?

Ive always been a dreamer
12-05-2007, 10:18 PM
While the song's harmonies are beautiful, it's not my favorite melodically. It reminds me of some of the doxology-type songs we would sing in church, where we would try to make Bible verses that weren't intended to be sung into songs and it got a bit awkward with the melody.

This is exactly the way I feel about No More Walks in the Wood. While the harmonies are very beautiful, somehow the melody just doesn't grab me the same way Seven Bridges Road does. While I love the concept of starting the album with the song, I am somewhat disappointed in the song for these reasons.

As far as Glenn's harmonies on the album, I really don't think they are lost, although I agree that they are not predominant in some of the songs. However, I can hear him clearly in both the verses and chorus in NMWINW.

As far as Fast Company, I remember telling Soda when this song first came out on the F1 bonus CD that I considered it a shared lead vocal between Don and Glenn because of the dominance of Glenn's voice in the chorus.

Mrs Frey
12-06-2007, 07:18 AM
I'm a bit late on responding to this topic (mostly because I've only had the album for two weeks :( ), but I've been very interested to read the opinions here, and particularly about Glenn's :heart: harmonies apparently being drowned in the mix of the songs.

It's amazing, actually, as before I saw this topic, I'd been thinking the same thing when listening to songs like "Waiting In The Weeds". It initially sounds like only Don and Timothy singing together, but towards the end, Glenn's :heart: voice becomes audible to me. I think Glenn :heart: only starts singing towards the end, in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but I do think that modern technology has a lot to do with this. When I listen to The Eagles' '70s recordings, the different voices are easily distinguishable on all songs. LROOE sounds more "produced", for want of a better word, than any of their previous albums, simply for the reason that technology has improved so dramatically over the years, and particularly within the last 10 years or so. Perhaps it is the way the boys intended the harmonies to sound. I would like to hear more of Glenn's :heart: voice, though. When he joins Don in the chorus of "Fast Company", it's thrilling to me. He has an amazing range, but when he sings in the lower register, it has an incredible effect on my ears (and my heart :blush: ).

As for "No More Walks In The Wood", the harmonies are fabulous and Beatlesque - it reminds me of "Because" from the "Abbey Road" album every time I hear it. I particularly love this lyric:

No more walks in the wood
This is the aftermath
Of afternoons in the clover fields
Where we once made love

So romantic :blush:. I have no issues with the melody - it's unusual, stunning and poignant. I particularly enjoyed listening to the boys sing it without technology playing a role in the "60 Minutes" segment. I just gasped and thought: these guys can really sing. Just stunning. And I could distinguish all four voices, too.

Freypower
12-06-2007, 05:51 PM
I don't understand why Glenn would only sing towards the end of WITW. That is certainly the impression that I get, but why?

scottside
12-06-2007, 06:55 PM
I don't understand why Glenn would only sing towards the end of WITW. That is certainly the impression that I get, but why?

I think as a band, the Eagles agreed that they'd all sing on every song. Glenn was probably only around minimally in the recording of this song. I wouldn't be surprised at all to discover that he played no instruments on it. Conversely, on ILTWAWD, Glenn does most of the harmonies himself except in a few short segments where you can hear the others. I really believe that this was far less of a band project than they would have us believe. I still have a tough time picking Glenn out of the harmonies. I hear him on "Do Something" now, but to me, it really sounds like Don's doing all those harmonies in the verses of LROE.

Freypower
12-06-2007, 10:26 PM
Seriously, scottside, I have no wish to argue with you, but in the latter part of the verses of LROOE I am sure that Glenn is singing with Don. Glenn's voice is extremely distinctive. He does the low part in the 'cold silver satellites' stuff. Does anyone else agree that the second voice there is Glenn?

Regarding whether Glenn plays any instruments on WITW I haven't a clue. I would have thought he played acoustic guitar, at least. The piano part doesn't sound like him.

In ILTWAWD Glenn sings lead. Where would he harmonise? The harmonies, such as they are, are by Don and Tim.

sodascouts
12-06-2007, 11:34 PM
To me, it definitely sounds like Glenn harmonizing on the verses on "Long Road Out of Eden"; yes, you have to listen carefully, but it's him. Listen to the way he says "dawn," for example - that's Glenn's voice.

scottside is right in that Glenn's vocals are sometimes doubled on ILTWAWD so that he harmonizes with himself, although I can hear Don and Tim in there too. When PLS brought up the song at Pebble Beach last February and we all gushed over it, Glenn told us that while he was at the tournament, Don and Tim were laying down harmonies on the song in the studio in order to "Eagle-ize" it. While it may not be as much of a band effort as we would picture in an ideal world, he did seem to want to make a real effort to have all the guys on all the songs.

JoeFan
12-07-2007, 05:45 AM
Can anyone pick out Joe harmonising on this song? He sang a part on 60 Minutes, but I can't hear him distinctly on the track. I also can't hear him on many others. If this song is a showcase of the band's harmonies though I thought Joe would be a part of that.

sodascouts
12-07-2007, 01:06 PM
No, I'm afraid I don't hear Joe. But dreamer pointed out to me a while back that Joe often is not audible in Eagles harmony, even on past albums.

I remember Glenn saying somewhere that the vocal sound comes from him, Don, and Timothy. I was surprised because he usually says it's all of them. Joe is more important to the band as a guitar player, I think. Or at least he used to be. As we've talked about elsewhere, it's unclear how much he is used here.

Ive always been a dreamer
12-07-2007, 02:51 PM
Of course I have no way of knowing this, but I think Joe may actually sing on the harmonies, but the way they use his voice makes it hard to distinguish it from the others. I use Seven Bridges Road as an example. To me that is the ultimate Eagles harmony song, and we know that all five Eagles sang on it at the time they recorded/performed it in the 70's. However, I can clearly make out Glenn's, Don's, Randy's, and Felder's voices, but I cannot distinguish Joe's voice in the song - it just 'blends' in with the others. I just presumed that this is intentional for achieving the sound that they want.

Freypower
12-07-2007, 08:00 PM
And yet on the other ultimate harmony song, Hole In The World, you can hear Joe clearly, or at least I can.

By the way, Seven Bridges Road features Tim, not Randy. The performance is from 1980.

Ive always been a dreamer
12-07-2007, 10:55 PM
You are correct FP about the recorded version on the Live album being in 1980. However, when the guys first started performing the song in concert, it was with Randy. Either way, both Randy's and Tim's harmonies are easily recognizable in the song.

Freypower
12-07-2007, 11:07 PM
OK, fair enough, but I've never heard it sung with Randy.

Ive always been a dreamer
12-07-2007, 11:51 PM
Oh my - then you must see this. I think you'll find some stuff in it that you'll like alot! :wink:

http://www.glennfreyonline.com/multimedia/live/SevenBridgesRoadSeattle76.mpg

sodascouts
12-07-2007, 11:54 PM
Oh, I LOOOOOVE that version. I love how Glenn snaps his finger so everyone starts at the same time, and I love how he plays the harmonica - you can hear his voice really clearly. I also love how Don and Randy sound together; you can hear Joe here, I think. The one I can't hear is Felder. No big loss. ;)

Edited to add: Dreamer told me that the low guy is Felder. So I guess I can hear him alright after all!

Here's the smaller Windows Media version:

http://www.glennfreyonline.com/multimedia/live/SevenBridgesRoadSeattle76.wmv

Ive always been a dreamer
12-08-2007, 02:16 AM
And yet on the other ultimate harmony song, Hole In The World, you can hear Joe clearly, or at least I can.

I forgot to respond to this earlier. But - I am unable to distinguish Joe's voice on HITW either. Maybe it's just me, but I have a very difficult time picking Joe out in any of the Eagles harmonies. I can't think of a single Eagles harmony where I can clearly make out his voice.

And OBTW - Like Soda and FP, I can clearly distinguish Glenn's voice in the LROOE chorus also.

JoeFan
12-08-2007, 04:03 AM
I've not seen that video before, it was brilliant!

scottside
12-08-2007, 10:23 AM
That was amazing, especially because it wasn't "doctored" up afterwards (unlike the 1980 version where they "fixed" the vocals in the studio later on). As as aside, that was my favorite Eagles line-up.