Discussion about Felder's contributions in the Eagles [Archive]

WalshFan88

02-23-2020, 07:39 AM

Do his concerts always start with that hilarious speech?

OMG yes. It's just more proof of what we can already notice - his overwhelmingly large inflated ego compared to his actual accomplishments and talents and importance, while worthy of respect, aren't as big.

Felder should be happy - he can do it all now if that's what he wants. Sing, play, run the band, and have someone record something about all that stuff you did at the beginning of every show. And call it the Don Felder band. He can play pretend all he wants to and get praise and the attention he so desires. It's all about you. Yet, I think deep down inside he's insanely regretful for his behavior in the band. I think he knows he had it better when he was a member of the band and played guitar in the Eagles. And he should be. He's also probably terribly regretting sealing the deal with his "woe is me" book. He has no one to blame but himself and I refuse to put the blame on Glenn Frey, and also Don Henley.

There should be no surprise as to why his position in the Eagles was eliminated. People say Glenn and DH were egotists. While I don't doubt they could be cocky, they could usually back it up. DF's always vastly overestimated himself. He's a great guitarist. All those other roles - not so much. He was going to try to tell DH and Glenn he was worth as much to the band as they were, not only financially (albeit his main focus), but in terms of importance and output and success. Get real Don. You're a hired gun guitarist and nothing more. Yes, you wrote the bit of music that became Hotel California. But you did NOT write it. His passive aggression combined with his malcontent personality, ego, and inability to accept the fact he's just a guitarist, and not a frontman/singer/main songwriter basically made him a royal pain to work with. And it stems from insecurities. He knows he's not all that he claims. He was never okay with the fact he's just a great guitarist and that's it and that he was never, ever going to be DH. Never, ever going to be Glenn. I'd even make the argument that while it seems on the surface his main point that got him fired was wanting the same pay as Frey and Henley, I think more than the money, he wanted them to see him as an equal in the band. Equal importance, equal say, equal output. We know how he acted when he was told he wasn't going to sing Victim Of Love. I wonder about the idea that it was never about the actual money itself, but rather by getting the same pay, he could tell himself he that he was of equal importance. When told to shove it - he did for awhile. but then started being passive aggressive and that rightly got him canned.

To me when I see Don Felder, hear him talk, etc I can't help but to feel bad for him. While almost anyone would give their left kidney to have been in his place, he never felt content. Never felt happy or truly proud of what he'd done without the need to exaggerate it. In another view, it's maddening because he never seemed grateful and always seemed entitled and acted like a baby when he was told no by Glenn Frey. To make that final call to Glenn, begging for his job back not only reeks of desperation, but also admitting that he was wrong. But I think had Glenn given him another chance, he'd do it again. Maybe not for awhile but people like that will continue to do it. And seemingly will find someone else to leech off of. No contact is the best policy. He should thank his lucky stars for seemingly walking into the life he has. So a part of me has sheer disdain for his arrogance, I also am sympathetic to a point, considering how miserable it must be to have all of that going for you, and need more and nothing is ever enough. It's just like he never truly grasped the fact that he was a great guitarist and didn't need to be anything more. He was set. He never appreciated how lucky he was. It's pathetic!

I heard this exact speech in concert and it made me cringe and the only thing popping into my head at the time was the page in the DSM about "Narcissistic Personality Disorder"...textbook case if you ask me. ;)

chaim

02-24-2020, 02:27 AM

"A four-time Grammy Award winner". I know they do say 'Eagles', but still I would have expected Don to be a bit more modest about the Grammys. Lyin' Eyes - did he sing harmony in the choruses? New Kid In Town - did he arrange the vocal harmonies or sing some of them? Did he sing Heartache Tonight? My answer to the first two is "maybe, but I don't think so". But I'm 99% positive he didn't sing HT. Glenn was a terrible guy, but at least Don appreciates the Grammy Glenn sang for him.

The following is not about Don, but every rock star who calls him/herself a bestselling author now. Number one, when you're already famous and write a book about yourself and your band, OF COURSE people are going to buy it. Number two, most (if not almost all of them) used a ghostwriter. Let's not get them confused with people who are actually writers.

That's my Felder negativity for now. I don't have much to whine about these days. 🙂 (I don't consider my lip-sync stuff whining, because there's no emotion involved there, just observation)

edwardd19

02-24-2020, 11:52 AM

if it was not for don felder, the eagles would not be as big or successful as they are today. no need to bash Felder, hes already gone through enough pain with the eagles as it is.

chaim

02-24-2020, 12:44 PM

if it was not for don felder, the eagles would not be as big or successful as they are today. no need to bash Felder, hes already gone through enough pain with the eagles as it is.

I have no intention of returning to the Felder bashing mode on a regular basis ever again, but I do find that intro speech hilarious. People who go see him have a pretty good idea of who he is already.

WalshFan88

02-24-2020, 06:05 PM

WalshFan88

02-24-2020, 06:30 PM

if it was not for don felder, the eagles would not be as big or successful as they are today. no need to bash Felder, hes already gone through enough pain with the eagles as it is.

TBH, edwardd19, he brings it on himself. He's got no one else to blame.

Any pain he got from the Eagles was something he brought on himself. It wasn't mean old Glenn. Glenn was in the right. No one likes someone who brings everyone down with their snide comments or constant whining OR malcontent nature. The straw that broke the camels back was when he asked for the same money as Glenn, got told no and he said ok. But then to make everything miserable, he kept being passive aggressive about it, and finally Glenn and probably DH had enough and Glenn told him to get lost. Don Felder is not innocent, at all. He was responsible for his demise in the band. He helped to break them up in 1980, Glenn wasn't about to let him ruin it again in 2000. Don Felder is a brilliant guitarist. But he, IMO, is an unsavory character and I get tired of his need to constantly shamelessly exaggerate his importance.

As far as the comment about success, I think that is debatable. I think his main achievement was coming up with the guitar intro for Hotel California, and giving it to Don and Glenn to write a song with. And yes, it's their biggest song. But he, while starting the process, wasn't responsible entirely for the whole song. I think that Glenn and Don are largely responsible for the bands success and lasting music. There was a hierarchy to the Eagles and while everyone works as a team and you need the other guys, not everyone gets to be quarterback. Not everyone gets to be coach. And that's ok. But Don Felder didn't think so. Bye!

I don't doubt Glenn could be cold and perhaps mean at times, but not to the extent Felder and his fans would like you to believe. And to be frank, Glenn's personality type would certainly clash with that of Don Felder, who was passive aggressive and would whine incessantly about being told no by someone who was more dominant. But Glenn wasn't this evil guy. And certainly he did get tired of Felder as time went on. But if Felder would have just assumed his role of a guitar player and not complained about not singing (which he cannot do) or having equal money and power in the band, then I'm sure he'd still be in the band. There is an interview on YouTube of Glenn in the 80s talking about Felder, praising him, and saying that he was an integral member in the second half of the 70s. He wasn't out to get him. Neither was Henley.

I used to think Don Felder was wronged, got a raw deal, and that he was the innocent man he claimed to be. Then, I woke up and realized that almost anyone would have a hard time working with Felder, especially if you were his superior. And I realized that Glenn wasn't as bad as he says, and that he wasn't the victim that he proclaimed so loudly to be. If he had owned up to his mistakes, apologized to Glenn and Don, and not wrote a nasty book trashing Don and Glenn - who knows, he may have been asked back at some point but that would have been giving him a third chance. And to me, a second chance is plenty, IMO.

My opinion of Felder will change when Felder owns up to his mistakes and cuts back on the silent arrogance and quits claiming that he "wrote" Hotel California. Then I will cut him a break. I don't see it happening!

KingWalsh

02-24-2020, 08:01 PM

I have no intention of returning to the Felder bashing mode on a regular basis ever again, but I do find that intro speech hilarious. People who go see him have a pretty good idea of who he is already.

I don't want to bash Felder either, but I agree 100%! It's rather odd to have this speech thing. Chaim so true, it's not like someone is buying a ticket and going... "Who is this Felder? I wonder what his accomplishments are?"

edwardd19

02-25-2020, 12:06 PM

TBH, edwardd19, he brings it on himself. He's got no one else to blame.

Any pain he got from the Eagles was something he brought on himself. It wasn't mean old Glenn. Glenn was in the right. No one likes someone who brings everyone down with their snide comments or constant whining OR malcontent nature. The straw that broke the camels back was when he asked for the same money as Glenn, got told no and he said ok. But then to make everything miserable, he kept being passive aggressive about it, and finally Glenn and probably DH had enough and Glenn told him to get lost. Don Felder is not innocent, at all. He was responsible for his demise in the band. He helped to break them up in 1980, Glenn wasn't about to let him ruin it again in 2000. Don Felder is a brilliant guitarist. But he, IMO, is an unsavory character and I get tired of his need to constantly shamelessly exaggerate his importance.

As far as the comment about success, I think that is debatable. I think his main achievement was coming up with the guitar intro for Hotel California, and giving it to Don and Glenn to write a song with. And yes, it's their biggest song. But he, while starting the process, wasn't responsible entirely for the whole song. I think that Glenn and Don are largely responsible for the bands success and lasting music. There was a hierarchy to the Eagles and while everyone works as a team and you need the other guys, not everyone gets to be quarterback. Not everyone gets to be coach. And that's ok. But Don Felder didn't think so. Bye!

I don't doubt Glenn could be cold and perhaps mean at times, but not to the extent Felder and his fans would like you to believe. And to be frank, Glenn's personality type would certainly clash with that of Don Felder, who was passive aggressive and would whine incessantly about being told no by someone who was more dominant. But Glenn wasn't this evil guy. And certainly he did get tired of Felder as time went on. But if Felder would have just assumed his role of a guitar player and not complained about not singing (which he cannot do) or having equal money and power in the band, then I'm sure he'd still be in the band. There is an interview on YouTube of Glenn in the 80s talking about Felder, praising him, and saying that he was an integral member in the second half of the 70s. He wasn't out to get him. Neither was Henley.

I used to think Don Felder was wronged, got a raw deal, and that he was the innocent man he claimed to be. Then, I woke up and realized that almost anyone would have a hard time working with Felder, especially if you were his superior. And I realized that Glenn wasn't as bad as he says, and that he wasn't the victim that he proclaimed so loudly to be. If he had owned up to his mistakes, apologized to Glenn and Don, and not wrote a nasty book trashing Don and Glenn - who knows, he may have been asked back at some point but that would have been giving him a third chance. And to me, a second chance is plenty, IMO.

My opinion of Felder will change when Felder owns up to his mistakes and cuts back on the silent arrogance and quits claiming that he "wrote" Hotel California. Then I will cut him a break. I don't see it happening!

Walshfan88, felder had all the right to ask for the same money as glenn and don during hell freezes over, THEY signed the eagles LTD deal back in 1975, with bernie and randy gone, all the royalties were left to the three remaining members of eagles limited, don, glenn, and felder. Dont you think that Henley and Frey should have at least respected the contract that they signed back in 1975? i mean they did create it back in 1975, because of money issues, and it was meant for EVERYONE in the deal to get an equal share of the royalties, so why should it change in 1996? and whats wrong with felder asking for equal pay? he was entitled to earning the same as glenn and henley, so ya he should be questioning his pay, he had the right to know what was going on with all the money, like i said before Eagles LTD did include Henley, FreY, AND Felder. and no it was not completely felders fault for the bands break up in 1980 it was both frey and felder, dont you find it ironic that Bernie and Randy QUIT the band, because they had issues with the same person, Glenn. I never heard them say in the history of the eagles doc that they had issues with Henley or Felder , it was always with glenn. The only reason why they broke in 1980, was because Felder did not back down like bernie and randy in 1977 and 1975, he stood up for what he believed in, which is what glenn feared for.

And yes maybe felder just came up with the guitar parts for hotel california, but he also played vitals roles for other songs, One of these nights, Those shoes, the long run, ICTYW, Although he may not have written the parts for some of these points, but his playing during those parts is what made it special. its evident in bootleg recordings from HFO or the 70s. I mean watch greeensboro 1996, when felder plays the i cant tell you why , the crowd goes crazy, when the camera shows felder playing during lyin eyes, they go even crazier, Hotel california is no question The crowd loves felders part, and of course his solo during one of these nights just makes the crowd go crazy, those are just some of the songs that prove my point. I mean do not get me wrong, i love frey and henley, trust me these two are truly two of the best singer/
songwriters of all time, but they just did not handle the band in the RIGHT way. i think they should have respected the Eagles LTD contract back in 1975, like they should have and then there would never have been an issue.

edwardd19

02-25-2020, 12:17 PM

I prefer to see the guy who either Co-wrote the songs or created musical parts to the soundtrack of a large percentage of the planet, perform it, over a carbon copy.

Already Gone
Good Day in Hell
One of these nights
Too many hands
Visions
After The Thrill is Gone
New kid in Town
Wasted Time
Victim of Love
The Last Resort
Hotel California
The Long Run
Disco Strangler
King of Hollywood
Those Shoes
The Sad Cafe
Please Come Home For Christmas
Hotel California acoustic
Get Over It

In addition DF played on stage with the band as a member/part owner, every song that the group has ever performed live between 1973-2004.

How dare Jimi Hendrix sing a Bob Dylan song that he didn't write?
See how silly that sounds?

chaim

02-25-2020, 01:14 PM

I won't comment on the money issue, but as far as I know there generally tends to be more resentment towards the people in bands who either are the bosses or otherwise look after the big picture - instead of just being concerned about their own contributions. Glenn (and to a slightly lesser degree Don H) in Eagles, Simmons & Stanley in Kiss. Therefore, although I didn't know Glenn Frey and I can't say what he was actually like, the fact that he had arguments with Randy, Bernie and Don F doesn't say to me that he was a p****. As far as I know at least Bernie has admitted his behaviour wasn't always great either.

Austin's words were harsher than I would use here at this point (although I feel the same about a lot of the things), but he did say that he'll change his mind if Don F accepts that he's made mistakes in the band as well. Makes perfect sense. So far Don hasn't done this.

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 06:02 PM

Walshfan88, felder had all the right to ask for the same money as glenn and don during hell freezes over, THEY signed the eagles LTD deal back in 1975, with bernie and randy gone, all the royalties were left to the three remaining members of eagles limited, don, glenn, and felder. Dont you think that Henley and Frey should have at least respected the contract that they signed back in 1975? i mean they did create it back in 1975, because of money issues, and it was meant for EVERYONE in the deal to get an equal share of the royalties, so why should it change in 1996? and whats wrong with felder asking for equal pay? he was entitled to earning the same as glenn and henley, so ya he should be questioning his pay, he had the right to know what was going on with all the money, like i said before Eagles LTD did include Henley, FreY, AND Felder. and no it was not completely felders fault for the bands break up in 1980 it was both frey and felder, dont you find it ironic that Bernie and Randy QUIT the band, because they had issues with the same person, Glenn. I never heard them say in the history of the eagles doc that they had issues with Henley or Felder , it was always with glenn. The only reason why they broke in 1980, was because Felder did not back down like bernie and randy in 1977 and 1975, he stood up for what he believed in, which is what glenn feared for.

And yes maybe felder just came up with the guitar parts for hotel california, but he also played vitals roles for other songs, One of these nights, Those shoes, the long run, ICTYW, Although he may not have written the parts for some of these points, but his playing during those parts is what made it special. its evident in bootleg recordings from HFO or the 70s. I mean watch greeensboro 1996, when felder plays the i cant tell you why , the crowd goes crazy, when the camera shows felder playing during lyin eyes, they go even crazier, Hotel california is no question The crowd loves felders part, and of course his solo during one of these nights just makes the crowd go crazy, those are just some of the songs that prove my point. I mean do not get me wrong, i love frey and henley, trust me these two are truly two of the best singer/
songwriters of all time, but they just did not handle the band in the RIGHT way. i think they should have respected the Eagles LTD contract back in 1975, like they should have and then there would never have been an issue.

I'm not even going to focus on the songs issue.

But let's get one thing straight - Felder never did anything that Glenn feared. Glenn didn't fear anything. That's why he was called the fearless leader. Glenn was an A type personality. Felder was not. Felder actually submitted, when Glenn told him to take the deal or leave it. He agreed, and got real quiet about it. However, he started acting passive aggressive towards Glenn and maybe Don and that wasn't something Glenn was going to put up with. I admire Glenn's tenacity, confidence, and outwardness when he made decisions. I also admire him for taking Felder's call in the end. Glenn wasn't scared of Felder in the slightest. Felder, IMO, was someone who would back down, and yet follow it up with jabs and unpleasantness to make up for the fact he couldn't get what he wanted. He wasn't a doormat, but he was passive-aggressive.

As far as Randy and Bernie - I think Bernie was no innocent man either, after all he dumped a bottle of beer on Glenn's head (which I'm still surprised Glenn didn't whoop his butt for!!). I don't doubt he had his problems with Glenn, and I don't doubt Glenn had legitimate reasons for being upset with Bernie. Randy was quite innocent. However, I think he was getting tired of the band drama, and left. And I don't think it was all Glenn. Randy was a quiet person and I think he had just had enough of that lifestyle. Again, not really Glenn's fault, however Glenn wasn't always innocent I'm sure. But neither were Bernie/Randy/Felder.

As far as Eagles LTD, that was a different time. You cannot deny that Don and Glenn were the breadwinners of this band. The old phrase Song Power comes to mind. Without those songs being written, and lyrics, etc there would be nothing left other than instrumental music. The other guys were important, but ultimately they were the ones who were writing the bulk of the material, as well as leading the band. I feel it was more than fair for them to reevaluate contracts. After all, they'd been disbanded for so long, and things weren't as they were back then. This was a whole new deal getting back together. And I agree with what Glenn said in the HOTE doc - they had kept that music alive in concert, and kept the name out there. They were the only ones who had post-Eagles solo careers that went anywhere. And couple that with what I said about writing songs - I have no doubt they weren't comfortable with it. Majority rules, and I think that's how it should be. Felder wasn't going to be penniless, nor was he getting paid anything close to minimum wage. He was still getting a paycheck most only could dream of. It wasn't going to affect his bottom line, nor was it going to affect his ability to sustain himself with food, housing, etc. Sure, it's not as much as Don and Glenn, but it wasn't some raw deal either. Anyone who was smart and not completely deluded would have taken the deal presented to Felder and happily played along. Felder had a complex where he thought he was equal to Don and Glenn not only financially but in terms of importance to the Eagles and equal in terms of talent, etc. He was not, not even close. And that's why he got the boot. He couldn't take the deal. And even when he did ultimately take it, he would just make everyone's life on the road terrible to make up for it, and Glenn said see ya later. No one likes a person who does that stuff.

New Kid In Town

02-25-2020, 06:21 PM

Hi Edward19. I don't want to rehash the money thing over again as it has been done a million times already here (read the D.F threads). When Felder signed the contract for the HFO Tour in 1994, it negated the original contract he signed in 1974-75. He knew when he signed that contract he would be getting less money - it was all spelled out for him and reviewed by his attorney. His problem was after he signed the contact he bitched about it forever. He signed a second new contract when "Selected Works" was to be released. He signed that contract then bitched repeatedly about it. Don Felder is a great guitarist - among the best, he helped take the Eagles to another level. However, he was not hired for his singing ability, he was hired to be the lead guitarist. IMHO, Don is a passable singer. Most certainly not as good as Glenn, Don H, Randy, Bernie Tim or Joe. He was a fifth rate singer in a band that had four guys who could all be lead singers in any other band.
And, don't know if you know it, but Don Felder did not write or play the guitar solo in ICTYW - that was don by Glenn. Check the album notes/credits. He gave the solo to Felder because he had to play piano in concert - he could not do both on stage. With the exception of HC and Visions, Don Felder did not write any other Eagles songs. Did he play guitar and play some great solos in the songs - yes, but he did not write the word or music for any of those other songs. I have never seem Don Felder in concert. However, WalshFan and other have. WF just saw him last year. You can read his and other people's reviews. I do know from reviews that Don F. uses auto tune. The Eagles have never used auto tune - knot even now when the three main singers are all 72 years - old. Hope you enjoy your time here on The Border.

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 06:55 PM

Very well spoken, NKIT. That contract was well spelled out for Felder. When told he could either sign it or get out of the band, he signed up. After that, it was non stop complaining and being problematic. Felder's childish behavior during the Alan Cranston event was exactly the final nail in the coffin for the band in 1980. Glenn wasn't about to sit back and let Felder ruin it again. The rest of the guys were having a blast. Felder was the Debbie Downer who wasn't gonna be happy unless he got what he wanted and thought he deserved. It only takes one to be a party pooper and then that person doesn't get invited back to parties.

So many think Don created the ICTYW solo. And for years Felder went along with it, until he was firmly pinned down with a question, to which he sheepishly replied 'No, that was done by Glenn Frey".

Glenn's guitar playing was and still is highly underrated. His soulful style heard on ICTYW, TALA, etc is second to none and he can rock it up too (AG, WW, etc).

KingWalsh

02-25-2020, 07:50 PM

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 08:02 PM

I didn't want to get sucked into this, I think Felder is a fantastic guitarist, but after reading his book and seeing interviews etc, he aggrevates me. I would love to see Felder and Walsh playing together in Eagles, but he sadly burned his bridge. He takes a lot of credit for things he played a part in but wasn't totally responsible for. His constant taking credit for HC drives me nuts. He finally said that Joe came up with the ending. and who is to believe Joe didn't come up with his solo? We don't have to discuss lyrics. Those Shoes....Joe does the solo, as in Victim Of Love. He contradicts himself a lot in the book and irritated me with the snide remarks throughout. it's such a shame because it tarnished his amazing talent!

And sure Don and Glenn had solo success but Joe's wasn't a flop either. Just had to speak up on that....

But let's remember this thread is for Don's videos and let's all get along.
Let's hug it out! :grouphug:

I never said Joe's solo career was a flop. I specifically stated that of the post-Eagles solo careers, theirs were the only ones that went anywhere. Glenn himself said that in the doc. And I completely agree. I was very specific about that. Obviously when you look at them in their entirety, Joe's was quite successful and in fact that's why Glenn wanted him in the band after their producer played them a Joe Walsh record.

Joe's solo material is great, but mostly the stuff that came before the breakup of the Eagles in 1980. Those were the albums that sold. The point was that I agreed that it was Glenn and Don that kept the music alive during the period where the Eagles were disbanded.

This is Don's video thread (to which I responded to chaim's comment about his intro speech to a concert video posted), but it isn't his positivity thread, either. I pull no punches when it comes to my distaste for Felder, it's nothing personal against his fans, but rather the man himself and that's all.

Personally, I don't see a big argument here. It's a disagreement between Edward and I about Felder deserving equal money. The rest of us seem to be getting along just fine, lol.

KingWalsh

02-25-2020, 08:10 PM

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 08:35 PM

I hear ya, Walshfan 88, not saying you said it was a flop, but that part of the doc stung me a bit...I'm a bit biased 😉 but I think Joe's 80s stuff is looked over. Pre Eagles is amazing as is But Seriously Folks...

I guess I just wanted to put a little water on the fire. Everyone has their fave and are passionate to defend them.

My husband is a die-hard Felder fan, so it gets heated here too! LOL

No ill will.

Of course. I disagree with edwardd19 on Felder's pay and firing, but that's all it is. I feel like Felder never owned up to his part of the deal. And I personally believe that his exit in the 2nd half of the band was solely his wrongdoing. I side with Glenn on that completely. I don't doubt Glenn could be cross, and I don't doubt that Glenn's more bold personality clashed with that of Felder's which was more passive. But I think it's Felder's "I'm a victim" stuff that kills me. As is when he tried to make Glenn out to be a monster in his book. Glenn was actually a nice guy, and while I think Henley is quite talented, I know which guy I'd rather work for. ;) When Felder owns up to his part of it (and IMO, his part was far bigger than Glenn's), takes back the things he said about Glenn, and regrets how he acted about the KCH and Grammy tribute, I will formally take back all I've said about him. But until then, IMO you get what you give and I don't like how he's completely backed out of all responsibility for his actions in the Eagles both in the 70s and 90s.

The 80s Walsh stuff doesn't speak to me so much. I loved everything up thru BSF, but BSF was during the Eagles days. I think for me, The Confessor was probably his best output since BSF. But I still prefer pre-80s.

edwardd19

02-25-2020, 08:59 PM

edwardd19

02-25-2020, 09:05 PM

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 09:16 PM

for those of you saying that Don and Glenn were the only ones who kept the name alive. why dont ya look up the facts....
Don and glenn were the only ones keeping the Eagles name alive...

In the 80's

Randy released three albums and had four top forty songs. Toured with his band the Silverados. He was also part of Black Tie and Meisner Rich and Swan bands.

Felder released one solo album
Did the soundtrack to the animated series Galaxy High
Hosted a tv show.
Contributed two songs to the Heavy Metal soundtrack including the title track, and recorded a song "Wild Life" for the Slugger's Wife movie.

---

It failed to mention that Frey's music career stalled by the mid to late 80's. Take away his soundtrack work and his solo albums would be nearly invisible.

His TV series was cancelled after one airing.

Randy's solo work was in no way keeping the Eagles name alive, not even close. So that ends that. Felder's solo album was largely forgettable except Heavy Metal, which was a soundtrack, the very thing you make a comment about Glenn doing. Those songs you talk about Felder doing, with the exception of Heavy Metal, are songs even I, an Eagles hardcore, had forgotten about. They were not equivalent to "You Belong To The City" or "The Heat Is On", not even close. You never saw the Eagles do "Wild Life" or "Bad Girls" in concert. They never even did "Heavy Metal" in concert. They did do "You Belong To The City"!

Frey's solo career, while not as successful as Henley's, was still very successful and far more successful than any other members other than Henley during the period where they were disbanded. It didn't "stall out". He has far more songs that were hits than just soundtracks. He, along with Don Henley, frequently played their own respective Eagles hits in their concerts, and keeping the songs alive. They were they only two that had much of any career outside the Eagles. The others had little success in that time frame, some more than others. Randy, IMO, doesn't count because he'd left the band before they disbanded in 1980.

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 09:31 PM

You guys over-simplified things. Felder is one third owner of Eagles LTD. He is entitled by law. On a more obvious note, without Felder, there would be no One of These NIghts, no Hotel California, no Victim of Love. If those songs were not in existence, the Eagles would be no where near as popular as they are now. ( And yes all of you ready to pounce on your keyboards about "One of These Nights", he wrote the intro, the entire bass line and the solo) Give credit where it's due.
The "Eagles Limited" agreement was a legal, binding agreement, and if you'll watch the documentary, you'll see Henley shrug his shoulders and say something like, "well things change, people move on," in response to the Eagles Limited topic. Well, a judge decided that while people do move on, you can't just toss out an agreement because you no longer like one of the parties.
One of their goals in the documentary was to diminish Felder's talent and contributions, and make him look like the toxic member.

But they failed to mention:

1) They re-arranged the credit sequence for Hotel California, putting Don's name last, when it was first on the album. The first name belongs to the person who contributed the most to the song.

2) Don didn't just write the intro, the little bit that they said caught their attention, but wrote the musical parts to the whole song, including the bass line

3) They asked him to write a new intro on the spot for the unplugged version. And as depicted on HFO, Don hit it out of the park.

4) They belittled Don's contribution to Victim of Love, saying it was just a progression, with no melody, no lyrics. But know full well that songs and the song writing process start in many ways.
.
Eagles LTD ceased to exist once HFO happened, as NKIT said. They redid those contracts. Felder ok'd it, after being given a clear ultimatum. However, he came to resent the deal and so he made it known.

Actually, a judge never did anything with Felder suing Don and Glenn. Instead, they settled out of court just so they could move on with their lives so Felder wouldn't begrudge them anymore. Sadly, Felder still hasn't quite moved on. He has more left to prove, I suppose. But what I don't get, is why did Felder seem to think he was just going to get a call back? As if they would forget about the book and the lawsuit!

I've always given credit to Felder as far as being a great guitarist. But let's not get so biased that we think he was the writer of ALL the musical parts for every song. Hotel California is the only song that could even be close to that being true, and Walsh has said that he did his own solo on the end, and was responsible for the idea that lead to the outro duel at the end. On OOTN, VOL, etc there is still arranging to be done, lyrics to be written. I'd argue that it was the lyrics, that made those songs really successful. You have to have the great music, that's Felder's credit for his part. But I cannot fathom listening to VOL with Felder's "vocals". And if you look at his solo work, he clearly is not a great lyricist. He is a world class guitarist and creator of guitar parts. But he's not a great singer, frontman, arranger, and lyricist. It's just not true. If you put different lyrics to Hotel California, you can't say it would have had the exact same success as it did. Again, I'm not saying he didn't contribute to the Eagles music. But IMO, he did less than Don and Glenn. I personally love the Eagles for the guitar stuff. But the overwhelming majority of people love them for their vocals and their lyrics.

I guarantee you that was not their goal with the HOTE doc. But they weren't going to gloss over Felder's departure or the turmoil he caused and make it seem like it was all rainbows and puppies, either. He was a toxic member. If you watch YouTube, you can find Glenn heavily praising Felder in an interview from the 80s or early 90s (pre-HFO) for his role in the band in the second half of the 1970s. He even said in the doc "for all his talents as a guitar player, he's not a singer". He never bashed Felder's playing. It was about Felder making everything miserable and Felder's need to have equal everything. Thank god they held firm on Henley singing VOL. Felder isn't a good singer. I think he always pushed Glenn and Don's buttons because he wanted what they had and wanted more control. He wasn't content with being a great well-paid player.

1) This has been well discussed. Personally I actually DO think it should read as on the album.

2) He did write the bulk of the music, but he didn't write Walsh's solo. Felder said Walsh also came up with the triad ending. Also Walsh has said that he came up with his solo. It's Walsh's style through and through.

3) This is true, I won't deny this. That doesn't mean that he was as important as Henley or Frey, however. I fail to see how this is significant in any way for justifying Felder as an "equal".

4) Sure, songwriting can start from many things. But without Don's classic vocals, and the lyrics written with the guys and JD Souther, VOL wouldn't be the same, and IMO it was what they did with Felder's music that made this great.

Ive always been a dreamer

02-25-2020, 11:01 PM

This thread has gone way off-topic. I don't see an existing thread to that would work for the discussion. so I think I'm going to create a new one and move some of these posts. I was thinking of naming the thread something along the lines of 'Discussion about Felder's role in the band', but I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has any ideas. I don't have time to do this right now, so in the meantime, feel free to continue the discussion here.

WalshFan88

02-25-2020, 11:05 PM

This thread has gone way off-topic. I don't see an existing thread to that would work for the discussion. so I think I'm going to create a new thread and move some of these posts. I was thinking of naming the thread something along the lines of 'Discussion about Felder's role in the band', but I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has any ideas. I don't have time to do this right now, so in the meantime, feel free to continue the discussion here.

I would say that name would fit Dreamer.

edwardd19

02-26-2020, 12:33 AM

i mean to speak the brutal truth, i am not trying to bash on Henley or Frey, like i said before, im a huge fan of the eagles, if not a die-hard fan. I love the eagles, from bernie to randy, to glenn and tim, i love them all. Despite Felder not being in the band, i still went to go and see the eagles live in concert, feb 8 of this year, and two years ago. Although yes henley and tim and joe were still apart of the band when they performed, its just not the same. If you have Bernie and Felder who are still physically healthy enough to perform, why not have them tour with, now i can understand felder not being a prime option, but atleast have bernie tour, what harm can he do? I just feel like Felder should have been treated more FAIRLY. my opinion may come off as biased, im not sure, but i feel like henley and frey did not treat Felder with the up-most respect that he deserved during the HFO period, or at least approached him correctly, i mean Henley did try and get Felder to play on his tour in the 80s, not once, but contacted him multiple times, in which felder denied his proposal, doesnt that say something?. Okay, he cant sing for his life, but his guitar work is one that is compared to that of Hendrix, Page, and Clapton, which should be enough for them to say "hey you know what, well pay you a little extra." i mean if Hendrix or clapton were in the eagles, would you deny them of a little more money if they asked for it? Even Henley in an interview in 2017 said " Felder is a world-class guitarists, one of the best" nothing more and nothing less and if you think that of someone would paying them a little extra money for their work be such a big deal? i mean if you think of them so highly, then treat them like that, i personally dont see any hate coming off of Henley when speaking about Felder, now do i think Henley would have felder come back to the band? yes i really do, but it would not be the right thing to do, with regards to glenn, bringing your bestfriends "enemy" back into a group, is not the right thing, and is the reason why henley would not have him back. some may be saying well what about joe? shouldnt he deserve more money too? well if you really look at Joes parts in the eagles, i feel like he was constrained by the eagles, I mean i think it is pretty obvious if you have done your research, but Henley did not like joe, because of his character (being wild and crazy) this can be found in multiple interviews, but when you look at joe in the eagles, he is not the same person as he was before, how do you go from singing songs like RMW and funk 49# to some soft ballad like PMAIAR, Joes best work in my opinion is when he did his solo work, even his solo work while he was in the eagles was more popular than his work with the eagles, lifes been good > in the city, anyways this was not about joe,but overall all im saying is i love the eagles, they truly are the best band of all time IMO, Henley and Frey no doubt in my mind are the lennon and mccartney of America, but If you look at felders playing during HFO, he plays the main guitar parts/solo for both Glenn and Henleys songs, (you belong to the city, the boys of summer, dirty laundry, etc even joes). im not trying to argue with anyone, im just trying to defend Felder, after i saw several comments about his concerts and little speeches that he gave during his concerts.

WalshFan88

02-26-2020, 01:20 AM

Edwardd19, Joe's work in the Eagles is worthy of as much respect as Felder's.

I don't think the Eagles held him back at all. He did plenty of guitar work on the HC and TLR albums. He wanted to join the band as much as Glenn wanted him in the band. It wasn't like he was prodded.

Rock songs: Life In The Fast Lane (intro and solo), Victim Of Love (solo), In The City (intro and slide solo), The Long Run (slide), Heartache Tonight (slide), Those Shoes (talkbox, solo). Yes, as far as him singing lead, there wasn't a lot of that. But really you had one ballad (Pretty Maids All In A Row) and one rocker (In The City). I don't think it's fair to infer that he had to sing ballads. I think DH and GF greatly respected Joe. And as much as Henley might not want to admit, it gave them some of that bad boy street cred with the rockstars that they didn't have before. Joe was hanging with Belushi, Moon, etc. Henley may have resented it when asked, but deep down I think he liked it. I know that Glenn certainly liked it. But Henley was definitely a bit prudish. The whole thing about drugs in the studio with Glyn Johns and him siding with Glyn told me that he himself could be seen a party pooper. Now I'm sure he was right, but I think drugs were a part of what made that music so great. Certainly with bands like Aerosmith and Zeppelin. I'm not endorsing their use - I'd rather people be alive than die making great music, but I think it's potently obvious that the sex, drugs, and rock and roll lifestyle of the 70s and 80s is what fueled the inspiration for so many great songs then.

But I've heard the whole I prefer Joe solo thing and it really bothers me, a lot actually. Joe was a far better fit for the Eagles than Bernie Leadon. They were a rock band, they just didn't know it until starting around 1975. ;) I'm no BL fan as far as music. I respect him, but his thing isn't mine at all. I prefer the later 70s Eagles. The whole desperado cowboy thing isn't in my vocabulary nor persona. I'm a hard rocker.

As far as the Eagles "changing" Joe. I'm not so sure. I also think that "if you've done your research" is an unnecessary thing to state. I don't think it is that obvious that the Eagles constrained him, Edward. IN fact in the 90s, I think their "constraining him" was probably what saved his life by saying we won't do this unless you agree to go to rehab for awhile. I thank Don and Glenn for doing that. I'd hate to think of losing Joe. I think he needed the Eagles every bit as much as the Eagles needed him. As far as Henley not liking Joe - I think his room trash wore on Don, but I think he also liked what it did for their street cred. I think from what I see, Henley does like Walsh, and I have no reason to doubt that. I know Don wasn't approving of him doing Desperado with Sam Kenison, but that is an isolated incident. I see no reason to believe that Henley resented having Joe in the band. I think if anything, he was just as ready to shed the country sound as Glenn was. I think Henley is glad Joe is a member, even today. I see no signs of resentment there.

You bring up Life's Been Good. Well to me it's clear that the version IN the Eagles is better than the original, and better than him doing it solo. Doing it with the band, brought a lot more to it. I almost never listen to the version on But Seriously Folks. I listen to the version on Eagles Live. That's Life's Been Good. Doing it with the band backing him was a far better song to listen to, to me. I fought for it to stay in the setlist when we'd have debates around here whether or not solo songs should be in the setlist, around the time of the HOTE tour. I personally think that Life's Been Good is clearly better with the Eagles. That's just me.

Even Joe will tell you he preferred being in a band than being solo. And I personally would give up all of my Joe solo albums as long as I could keep HC, TLR, and Live. That's Joe at his best, for my money's worth.

Regarding Bernie, I think he was the one who chose not to participate in this 3.0 version of the "band". I don't think it was a case of not being invited or being shut out. From what I hear, he wasn't interested. I saw him on the HOTE tour. While it was cool to hear him on TIE, I felt that it didn't bring a ton extra having him there. I'm not into TLHTM or Saturday Night. I also much prefer the original arrangements of WW.

As far as Felder's treatment. Let's just agree to disagree. But I wanted to bring up a contradiction you made. You said a few posts ago that "they never had a problem with Henley" or that in the doc they never mentioned Henley as a problem, just Glenn. Something to that effect. But then you say that it should "say something" because Felder turned down Henley when asked to come play with him on his solo tour.

And as far as the money thing. Felder wasn't making chump change! He was more than well taken care of. He was a freakin' rockstar for crying out loud touring with the biggest and best American rock band of all time! If he was getting paid that poorly, I'd totally be on your side on the money thing. The argument isn't about being him not being paid well. It's about him and some others thinking he was an equal to Don and Glenn, which I firmly state again that he was not. He was making great money, money anyone would love to have. He wasn't going to be on the streets in a year after the tour ended. C'mon. I know you like Felder, and I love him as a guitarist. But this wasn't about getting paid fairly for his work. This was about seeing his own importance and contributions as equal to Don and Glenn. It wasn't. So, that settles that.

chaim

02-26-2020, 01:43 AM

I won't quote the post I'm replying to, because it's so long and it's impossible to quote a tiny bit with my iPhone, but it's about OOTN. It's weird to say that without Felder there would be no OOTN and then to say that he wrote the intro and the entire bassline. Why are people making the bassline so important in this song - enen to the point that the song wouldn't exist without Felder? Because Felder wrote it? I don't hear people say the same about songs Randy wrote the bassline for. And I didn't hear people praise the OOTN bassline until Felder said he wrote it.

And Felder didn't come uo with the whole intro. Glenn did the harmony guitars.

chaim

02-26-2020, 01:51 AM

I disagree with edwardd19 about some things here, but I definitely agree about the HC writer credits. Felder's name should definitely always be first.

chaim

02-26-2020, 02:16 AM

Since this started from my comment about the intro speech in Don's concerts and discussing Felder's value is still connected to it, couldn't everything from my comment onwards be removed to the new thread and the thread be titled "Don Felder concert introduction"?

chaim

02-26-2020, 02:35 AM

Although I would never have started a new thread about it. It's not THAT important to me.I was just reacting to a video clip that was posted, so I must say I'm not fond of the idea of being the starter of a negative DF thread.

I'm having the problem again that my posts disappear when I try to edit them. That's why I've made several posts again...

WalshFan88

02-26-2020, 05:18 AM

And Felder didn't come up with the whole intro. Glenn did the harmony guitars.

I disagree with edwardd19 about some things here, but I definitely agree about the HC writer credits. Felder's name should definitely always be first.

Absolutely, chaim!

WalshFan88

02-26-2020, 05:19 AM

chaim

02-26-2020, 06:40 AM

I understand. If Dreamer wants to do it that way, I'm happy to be the "thread starter" with my post responding to you.

If the thread is going to start negatively anyway, it might as well start with my post. I was just wondering if there's any other way, because if I'd start a new thread here about Don's intro speech, I certainly wouldn't use the word "hilarious" in the first post. Perhaps if my first post had a "removed from another topic" notification...

I still feel the same way I wrote about Felder years ago when we discussed the book and subsequent interviews, but made a promise (to people here and to myself) to tone it down, because I agreed that a Don Felder forum should be above all positive. I will still say if some new things concerning Don irritate me, but starting a whole new thread about negative stuff is not what I'd like to do.

Delilah

02-26-2020, 04:31 PM

i am not trying to bash on Henley or Frey, like i said before, im a huge fan of the eagles, if not a die-hard fan. I love the eagles, from bernie to randy, to glenn and tim, i love them all.

edwardd19, if you love the different line-ups of the classic band era and appreciate most if not all the members, then you are a indeed a die-hard fan. Welcome to the club! :bye:

im just trying to defend Felder, after i saw several comments about his concerts and little speeches that he gave during his concerts.

You are free to speak your mind, of course, but Felder really doesn’t need to be defended. There have been so many attacks against him and many of them have long grown old and stale. I’m with KingWalsh in that I prefer not to get sucked into the debate about Felder’s dealings with the Eagles. People are going to disagree about his value to the band. And like Randy said, “right or wrong, what’s done is done.”

Felder, like many of us, has moved on. He seems to be happy, healthy and against the odds, enjoying a modestly successful solo career touring and even recording. Not many lead guitarists from a 70s band can say that. I imagine he enjoys his family and being a grandfather, and he has recently found new love. Ever so often, I’ll post something in his sub-forum, knowing there is a risk it will be mocked or twisted into something negative. But it doesn’t really matter. These guys have entered their 70s and aren’t getting any younger. I prefer to celebrate them, rather than continually dwell on past grievances. That doesn’t mean if someone finds his concerts lacking they shouldn’t comment. Of course they should if they want to, this is a discussion forum. Unfortunately too often the discussion gets circled back to the same old bashing and negativity.

It would probably amuse Felder knowing that he continues to be a hot topic many years after he left the band!

Ive always been a dreamer

02-26-2020, 11:12 PM

I have copied and/or moved some posts from another thread that were off-topic to this new thread. This thread is for discussing Felder's role and contributions in the Eagles.

I appreciate the comments and opinions about whether or not to start another thread for this discussion. I am sensitive that the new thread may appear to be negative, but on the other hand I am also sensitive when people complain about going into a thread that is for videos only to be surprised to find the discussion veered into pages of totally unrelated debate. As much as I would love to avoid the negativity, the fact of the matter is that Felder is a very polarizing figure among Eagles fans.

Personally, I have tried to avoid the discussions, but if others are interested in continuing to discuss Felder's problems within the band, then there is nothing wrong with that as long as the debate stays respectful. However, I do want to caution all participants that it is fine to express your opinion as long as it is based on facts. I know that it is a sign of the times, but please let's avoid introducing 'alternative' facts to support your position. All healthy, worthwhile debates start with a foundation of real facts.

thebagels

02-28-2020, 08:50 PM

I have no opinion about what may have transpired in the band with regard to personal matters. With regard to Eagles music, I think that they definitely lost the smooth guitar playing that Don provided for the band when he was fired. While Steuart is indeed an accomplished guitar player, I have never heard him get a similar tone to Don at any point post-2001. It is interesting that even on a few of the early Eagles songs, Steuart still prefers to play Felder's parts over Bernie's.

Don still sounds mostly the same to my ear in concert during recent years; he has seemingly become slightly rougher than before, but then again, so has Joe.

With regard to Felder's solo concerts, I have long thought that he should either start singing for real (he's not terrible on a good day to be honest; it would seem that some voice lessons could greatly improve his voice) or hire someone to play rhythm guitar and sing some songs (this would also allow Don to eliminate any backing tracks that he uses and would really allow him to have a live band much closer to the Eagles in terms of musical quality). As for the lawsuit, I have no horse in that race as I don't know what happened; apparently, it does not mean that Don and Joe are forbidden from speaking to one another, so I can only hope that they will play together in the near future.

WalshFan88

05-28-2021, 07:22 PM

I felt like this was a better place to post this. I was going to post it in response to thebagels video link they posted in the video thread but decided it was better to put it here with similar thoughts. Especially since it covers more than just what that video presented. But it's just more evidence of what I've been saying all along about Don Felder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc46UKsG0gI

Here's my response to this video:

LOL! :hilarious:

Don trying to be a showboat/showman just makes me laugh. He took every insecurity and grievance he had during his time in the Eagles and made sure that his own band with his own name would honor him as thy leader at every turn and that he would go out of his way to be an over the top out front character. Almost in a childish nananana booboo sort of way. I mean that's what "You Don't Have Me" was all about, besides the blatant narcissism. He's a freaking lead guitarist. A great one. A hero! But charismatic frontman and singer he is not. That's ok, until his ego demanded more and more attention and his entitlement got in the way of being a guitarist. For all of the talk of the diehard Felder fans (not on this forum, but just everywhere frankly) make about Glenn's attitude and ego - I think they are projecting on behalf of Don because he resembles those things.

At least Glenn could back it up and he WAS a charismatic leader and frontman who wasn't so cringe-y. I've said it before but Don needs to get a singer and accept at the age of 73, who you are and what you aren't. Play to your strengths, don't lie to yourself. Go out there and slay that guitar and have fun. Don't spend your last few years getting back at a man who isn't even around anymore. Pettiness is Felder's game though. The other way to look at is, hey he's 73, do I really think he's going to have an awakening on his behavior and personality at his age when this has been a problem since the late 1970s at the latest? No probably not. But we can hope. Not only for us the fans but for Don too.

A part of me wishes he could have buried the hatchet with Glenn or at least had one more face to face meeting. Not to allow him back in the band or become beer buddies but just so they could both clear the air in person. Because no one deserves to carry that crap to their graves! I don't blame Glenn for not doing so, but I think Felder needed closure and he never got it. It could have been a failure and totally non-productive, but an attempt at it might have calmed down Don's passive-aggression for Glenn that has continued after he's passed away, as we saw with the whole KCH debacle. I think he will likely carry those thoughts forever. It hurts. As a fan of both men's work. When you are writing tracks like "You Don't Have Me" and you are in your late 60s/70s, something that you'd expect from a teen or young adult, we probably shouldn't ask too much of Don for maturing or growing up at this point. That ship has sailed! I think Felder not only shot himself in the foot, but the fans who loved his work in the band. They suffered too. But in good conscience, I cannot blame our guys for saying see you later when he was trying to go for a "Wrong Beach 2.0" kind of event. Not again. The rest of the guys were getting along too good to let him be someone who could potentially break up the band a second time, especially since there was no other reasons at the time, unlike in 1980. He would have been the sole reason for breaking up the band, and they were having too much fun and frankly, making too much money during HFO to let that happen. Good call.

And lastly, I think why this bothers me so is because I AM a Don Felder fan. Of the musician. I used to be a fan of Don the man too, but not anymore. For so many years I had blinders on and was ignoring basic facts about his personality and why he was fired from the band and why he was sued and all of that. I thought his book was verbatim truth. I thought Glenn Frey was an evil man and Don Henley a pushover who would just go with whatever Glenn says out of fear. I couldn't have been more wrong, frankly. It took a long time. Sadly, until Glenn's death. After I sat there processing Felder's remarks about Glenn and the KCH, I realized hey wait a minute, just who am I supporting here. I read and read and realized I'd had some serious blind spots in my history of the Eagles and of who was really at fault here. None of them were angels, but Glenn was not the devil I had publicly made him out to be. And Don was not this helpless little victim who got wronged at every turn. It bothered me too because I still loved Don's influence on my life and guitar playing. He and Joe are quite possibly, frankly the reason I'm even still alive at this point. Hotel California singlehandedly changed my life. And nothing Don does can change that or my gratitude. But I don't have to be blind about it either. I can love the man's music without liking him as a person. I can still push for him to be better. Be the role model I know he can be. I will never say he isn't anything but a masterful guitarist and an excellent writer of guitar parts. But I've been so very disappointed in him as a person. The more I hear of him the more sad it makes me.

Not only did Don lose out on playing with the guys ever again when he was fired, but he also made it so his fans could never see him up there with that Gibson doubleneck on an Eagles stage ever again. I never could see him with the band I love so dearly. If he truly had been mistreated, I would have gladly continued to believe so and call out any real injustices. But I feel like Felder fans were also cheated out of something, not just Don himself. But not by Frey and Henley, but by Don Felder himself. That's the part that kills me. I will always support the music and sing his praises on his talent. But I will always tell the truth on him as a person and as I see it. And I'd like to think that with time, this too will pass and he will heal and get over the hurt and realize his share of the mistakes. It probably won't happen, but I'm remaining optimistic because I believe he can do it and I owe that much to him to encourage him to heal. And I'd hope the same for every Felder fan out there, including the ones who feel he was never at fault. I hope that in time you will realize that Glenn wasn't a monster and Don was not a perfect victim who got a raw deal. They all made mistakes, especially in the 70s, but Don never grew up. It hurts to say, believe me. But it is what it is.

chaim

05-30-2021, 11:19 AM

Austin, years certainly go by. I don't remember you as a Glenn basher and Don F supporter. I wonder if we had heated debates back when I didn't hold anything back when criticising Mr. Felder. 😂

Ive always been a dreamer

05-30-2021, 12:49 PM

Well Austin - I remember when you were a staunch defender of all things Felder. And although, I, obviously, didn't always agree with you, I always thought you were sincere and passionate about your views. What always bothers me much more is when misinformed fans come to the board solely for the purpose of arguing with members and totally misrepresent the facts. As fans, none of us know these men and all of the facts behind their relationships; however, as you said, there are plenty of facts about the band members patterns of behavior that fans can use to form opinions if they care to. As we always say, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but, if debate is going to be fair, we shouldn't let emotions get in the way of facts.

thebagels

05-30-2021, 07:17 PM

I felt like this was a better place to post this. I was going to post it in response to thebagels video link they posted in the video thread but decided it was better to put it here with similar thoughts.

Honestly, seeing this whole bowing routine was laughable as it smacked of ritualistic fakery to me. It kind of reminded me of the bow we did at the end of our second grade play. Why do they have to hold hands and raise them up in the air? It's meant to be a rock concert, not Broadway.

Oh wait; we're talking about the guy who's used prerecorded vocal tracks since 2014 or 2015. In fact, even in the video, you can see Don's guitar tech starting the "American Rock and Roll" track at the end of the bow.

The fact that people give a standing ovation to such a formulaic show that is timed right down to the beat gives me a bit of pause.

The unfortunate part about all of this is that on many occasions where Don has to be more spontaneous (like when he played Wooden Ships with CSN or sang Hotel California at the R&R HOF), he is actually able to deliver fine vocal performances and great guitar performances.

chaim

05-31-2021, 02:35 AM

I believe I've seen some other bands do that same thing and even repeating it several times; holding hands, raising them, bowing and the works. So I didn't find it that odd. Although those have been bigger concerts at bigger venues.

Well, I'm not sure about raised hands, but I think Kiss may have done that.

KingWalsh

06-05-2021, 09:49 AM

WalshFan88

06-08-2021, 11:45 AM

Many bands have done some version of the hands together. It doesn’t matter to me. It’s whatever. In a way it’s like all for one one for all and finalizes a show. Whatever the artist is comfortable.

Oh no, that does happen. I think the Eagles even did that.

It more about the way Don went about it. I'll post a video of Don faking excitement later and the end of the song saying "oh my god" as if it was a miracle they pulled off. :lol:

He's just a little too "fake" for me. The bow seemed over the top in the up/down thing and it just seemed like a showboat way to do it. If you do those bows long enough you naturally know when to go up or down and doesn't look forced. I just think he's making up for lost time of not being the lead man in the Eagles by being as much of an over-the-top showman as he can. You can tell that he really loves that. It bothers me. It's like someone going for the opposite type of person after a break-up just to p!ss the ex off even though you know you can't be with them or should be with them. It reeks of childishness and being oppositional for the sake of being oppositional. Not a good look, TBH.

Which has been my point all along about Glenn vs Felder. Glenn was naturally a frontman with non-forced moves and stage presence that didn't seem so fake. He was naturally fit for that role. If you are, you are, if you're not, well don't try because it looks silly! Let alone the fact he's not a lead singer. When you couple someone trying to sing but can't with someone trying to be a frontman or showman but can't - it just is cringe city. It makes Don look vain and egocentric - which I have no doubt that he actually is.

I mean can you imagine how good the Felder band could be if Don did like 2 changes?

1 - get two singers. Or at least one that can do Henley songs reasonably well. Hire someone from an Eagles tribute or Nashville - whatever. Maybe find a band member who can sing Frey's songs reasonably well or just hire a second singer. Maybe one of those singers could play some rhythm guitar to fill out the 3 guitar sound of the Eagles music.

2 - reclaim your old place as the lead guitarist, let your singers take center stage. If not, put them on either side of you. Work on playing guitar. Talk to your audience sure, but drop the forced stage prescence. Play the hell out of the guitar. Make sure your other guitarist is really good at playing Walsh's parts. Work on building a real rapport with them not just someone you barely know you hired from a touring agency. Make that dynamic duo thing happen again. Really have fun. Drop the idea of being something you can't and really don't let your true talents go away. Put yourself in a position to shine, and I don't mean with a spotlight. ;) I think Felder would deep down enjoy this.

That would get me to go see Don again. I would even say on the surface I would thoroughly enjoy myself! I mean now that I have no desire to see the Eagles again, this purposed scenario might just be the next best thing. Do I think Don will do it. Well let's just say if I were to hold my breath I'd be in the ground before I saw that show! :grin:

WalshFan88

06-08-2021, 11:53 AM

Pardon, I was wrong. It wasn't "oh my god!" afterall.
It was "oh my goodness gracious!". That's something my grandma would say to me as a kid after I told her something excited I did. :hilarious: I think it's even worse.

He says it at 5:10 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY8DuczxGgM

chaim

06-08-2021, 02:43 PM

chaim

06-08-2021, 02:48 PM

Does that "oh my goodness gracious" come from the PA or did the phone pick it up "acoustically"? Sounds like he's lip-syncing, but I guess his mic could still be on.

WalshFan88

06-08-2021, 03:06 PM

Does that "oh my goodness gracious" come from the PA or did the phone pick it up "acoustically"? Sounds like he's lip-syncing, but I guess his mic could still be on.

Not 100 percent sure, but probably phone picked it up but as close as he was its possible it faintly bled into the mic! But it's still so awkward. It seems so forced. :lol:

Even if only his bandmates could hear it, do they really need to hear a 70-something dude saying "oh my goodness gracious" as they finish a song?! How about good job, guys or "yeah" or some other words of encouragement or something less phony than feigned shock and excitement?! :hilarious:

WalshFan88

06-08-2021, 03:13 PM

I agree that he's not a frontman. But the grand announcement about his accomplishments before every gig (I've NEVER heard anyone else have that) and the three-minute life story in the space of a song (never heard anyone else do that either) make it clear who's THE STAR on that stage.

I do think it stems just from pent up desires from not getting to do that in the 70s/80s/90s. He thought he was cooler than he was, better than he was, or thought he was a leader. "You Don't Have Me" pretty much tells you his mindset. And fine. But you've had how many years to get it out of your system and feed your ego? You're 73 years old. Maybe leave the nanana booboos behind. I can kinda see why he's had so many failed relationships. It's sad. If the man would have invested in some "Soul Searchin'" in therapy, maybe he'd be living a happier life in his golden years. Don can say he's the happiest he's ever been, but his attitude and behavior paint a different picture. I feel sorry for Don. No one should have to go through life feeling like they go unappreciated or feeling victimized real or imagined. But play to your strengths and maybe grow a bit.

chaim

06-08-2021, 03:29 PM

WalshFan88

06-08-2021, 04:53 PM

thebagels

06-10-2021, 04:34 PM

I wonder if there's some Joe Walsh influence there as well? Joe is a guitarist in the Eagles, but an accomplished solo artist as a frontman as well. Maybe Don doesn't want to be "the Eagles guitarist who only plays". Who knows. Seems that we agree that 1) Don is a great guitarist and 2) he's no frontman.

I'm not sure. Joe is apparently a "hired hand" while I suspect Don still has some ongoing business relationship with the Eagles that may put him (in a corporate sense) above Joe (as Don implied at the beginning of the Howard Stern interview).

I don't think Don has much to worry about as Joe doesn't sing the most in-tune (although his voice has great rhythmic feeling and character), and Don has more technical prowess than Joe.

As for the bowing thing, the reason it seemed "fake" to me was because of the routine Don went through.

"1,2,3, up!"
"1,2,3, down!"
"And go up; oh, here we go!"

"Here we go" with what? They're done lmao

Lots of feigned excitement imo.

chaim

06-10-2021, 05:32 PM

I wasn't thinking of Joe as a singer as much as a frontman, which includes singing and interacting with the audience. I don't necessarily believe that Joe has been an influence to Don, but SOMETHING does drive Don to be a frontman even to the point where he rather lip-syncs that hires a singer.

WalshFan88

06-10-2021, 09:44 PM

I'm not sure. Joe is apparently a "hired hand" while I suspect Don still has some ongoing business relationship with the Eagles that may put him (in a corporate sense) above Joe (as Don implied at the beginning of the Howard Stern interview).

I don't think Don has much to worry about as Joe doesn't sing the most in-tune (although his voice has great rhythmic feeling and character), and Don has more technical prowess than Joe.

As for the bowing thing, the reason it seemed "fake" to me was because of the routine Don went through.

"1,2,3, up!"
"1,2,3, down!"
"And go up; oh, here we go!"

"Here we go" with what? They're done lmao

Lots of feigned excitement imo.

I agree Don is more technically proficient on guitar than Joe, no question but I don't think that means better guitarist rather than just a different approach. I mean he knows more theory but it's possible to be very appealing and have a great sound and tone and style without having a surgical like precision or a lot of other scales on tap. But does it mean Don would be envious of Joe on guitar, probably not. That's just my personal thing. I prefer a bluesier raw thing. Some people like Steve Vai or Larry Carlton. Some people want to hear Angus Young or Joe Perry. I'm in the latter camp. BUT, I think in a multi guitar band having one of each approach really is a wonderful thing. Be it Felder/Walsh, Perry/Whitford, Clark/Collen, etc. Yin and yang thing that is classic.

Joe isn't a Don Henley type of singer but he sings very well with a characteristic voice (which again can be a good thing or bad thing but can be as great as a smooth voice with a lot of range) and can sing in tune, at least he did on those Eagles songs he sang lead on. There is a reason there is only 1 DF lead vocal on an Eagles track (to which I'm surprised they even allowed). Joe didn't sing a ton but he did way more than Felder, especially including bringing his James Gang and solo music into live shows. Don Felder is a terrible singer. Even when he isn't autotuned, he just has this rasp and not the good kind. You can be Rod Stewart and have a rasp everyone loves or you can sound like nails on a chalkboard. He's also a very cringy showman who just can't find the natural stage presence to have. He truly is a sideman and a hired hand also. I think he seems awkward taking center stage like that. He *can* do the step out stuff on guitar like a bad@ss and can stand toe to toe with anyone on a solo.

In that regard, I could see Felder being envious of being both a guitarist AND a frontman/singer. You know who else could do both? Glenn Frey! His arch nemesis until the end.

thebagels

06-10-2021, 11:55 PM

I agree Don is more technically proficient on guitar than Joe, no question but I don't think that means better guitarist rather than just a different approach. I mean he knows more theory but it's possible to be very appealing and have a great sound and tone and style without having a surgical like precision or a lot of other scales on tap. But does it mean Don would be envious of Joe on guitar, probably not. That's just my personal thing. I prefer a bluesier raw thing. Some people like Steve Vai or Larry Carlton. Some people want to hear Angus Young or Joe Perry. I'm in the latter camp. BUT, I think in a multi guitar band having one of each approach really is a wonderful thing. Be it Felder/Walsh, Perry/Whitford, Clark/Collen, etc. Yin and yang thing that is classic.

Joe isn't a Don Henley type of singer but he sings very well with a characteristic voice (which again can be a good thing or bad thing but can be as great as a smooth voice with a lot of range) and can sing in tune, at least he did on those Eagles songs he sang lead on. There is a reason there is only 1 DF lead vocal on an Eagles track (to which I'm surprised they even allowed). Joe didn't sing a ton but he did way more than Felder, especially including bringing his James Gang and solo music into live shows. Don Felder is a terrible singer. Even when he isn't autotuned, he just has this rasp and not the good kind. You can be Rod Stewart and have a rasp everyone loves or you can sound like nails on a chalkboard. He's also a very cringy showman who just can't find the natural stage presence to have. He truly is a sideman and a hired hand also. I think he seems awkward taking center stage like that. He *can* do the step out stuff on guitar like a bad@ss and can stand toe to toe with anyone on a solo.

In that regard, I could see Felder being envious of being both a guitarist AND a frontman/singer. You know who else could do both? Glenn Frey! His arch nemesis until the end.

To me it's really a wash between who's "better" on guitar; as you said, the approaches are different but complementary when they're together. I always liked the way Joe really had a great rhythmic feel where he'd just get with a groove. Don can do that too, but it seems like there's more polish (which I like) and less accenting of strong beats (I prefer some accenting as it can give the playing a lyrical sort of quality imo).

I agree that Don's not a good singer. I think he did okay on Heavy Metal, but it really sounds like he was trying to rip off Henley's vocal style. It didn't work out super well to my ear, but it seems miles better than his singing now.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the last part. Don has always stated that he has admiration for people who can play, write and sing. Of course, Don can play, so there's no problem there. Singing has been addressed. I think he's good at writing "music beds" and guitar parts, but when it comes to lyrics:

"Gimme that good ol' American rock and roll"

Yeah; Henley and Glenn probably don't have much to be concerned about. Maybe he is envious.

Actually, it kind of makes sense as Don seems to really like getting applause.

He wrote about playing the intro to Hotel and other songs in his book and the accompanying roar of the crowd at least 3x in his book.

His concert speech before "The Long Run" is filled with cheap applause lines, and his band models the expected behavior by leading the claps.

He also has a very particular set of motions he does after Hotel. First, he bursts into a huge smile, then he raises his guitar over his head, and then he does the bow thing.

Austin, you seem to have more onstage experience than I (especially in a rock context), so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this routine is designed to encourage a standing ovation?

Regardless, maybe this is his way of getting the adulation that he didn't get much onstage. Other than Hotel, it seems like Don never had the stage presence that could captivate the audience and get them to cheer him on. Even Tim could do that when he started singing Keep On Tryin', not to mention his solo songs.

chaim

06-11-2021, 02:53 AM

I have to say that I actually kind of like Don's voice. The actual voice. But it gets a bit tiring after a while. But I'm sure some would say the same about Joe's voice. 😂

WalshFan88

06-12-2021, 12:17 PM

Austin, you seem to have more onstage experience than I (especially in a rock context), so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this routine is designed to encourage a standing ovation?

Regardless, maybe this is his way of getting the adulation that he didn't get much onstage. Other than Hotel, it seems like Don never had the stage presence that could captivate the audience and get them to cheer him on. Even Tim could do that when he started singing Keep On Tryin', not to mention his solo songs.

I'm definitely not in the touring business but in my experience playing cover/tribute gigs outside or in a club or something like that, you would probably try to do that for your last song to get a standing O or at least a big sendoff. I mean most bar bands aren't throwing out picks or leaving the stage for an encore. So I can't comment on that. But yes a big ending is something you might try to do. But for Don Felder he can throw out picks but probably can't do a big encore unless he is playing as the only act, and if it's a private paid thing, trying to pull off an encore would be very cringy and at a casino or something, I just don't think people would go for it. I mean it's the Don Felder band. lol

See Don is usually the opener, often times the first of three acts, the first opener. You can't really walk offstage before Hotel Cali and then come back for a roaring encore. There just isn't time and the headliner wouldn't like you getting that attention, lol. I have no doubt Don misses that aspect of the Eagles. Going offstage and coming back to a roar.

I think Don would love to be in a band that could do an encore. There is no doubt he is wanting that final hoorah and maybe by getting so excited after a song is over he is trying to have an encore like response. It just makes him look silly for calling Glenn arrogant or narcissistic when I think Glenn wasn't near as much, and Don was projecting.

WalshFan88

06-12-2021, 12:21 PM

I have to say that I actually kind of like Don's voice. The actual voice. But it gets a bit tiring after a while. But I'm sure some would say the same about Joe's voice. 😂

I think when he tries to do Henley material is when it is peak-cringe. lol. The voice of him singing at the Met doing a bit of Hotel California without autotune was a little painful to listen to.

Joe would not get any accolades for a perfect voice, but it sounds "right" when he sings and it just has a character to it that makes up for it's imperfections. It doesn't have that 'rub', almost akin to playing a note that isn't exactly in tune that you can tell is the right note but is just off enough to grate at you like DF's voice does.

His speaking voice is just fine if not a little sedate. But when he tries to sing high, it just doesn't work for me.

KingWalsh

06-15-2021, 03:47 AM

Well, a lot to quote and such, making for a reeeeaaaal long post, and agree with a lot Walshfan says...but if I must say....obviously I’m a Joe fan duh. His voice isn’t perfect but that’s what I love and is unique and couldn’t imagine anyone else singing his songs. I love his playing because there is so much feeling and I too lean towards a bluesy player. As a guitarist myself, he is a GIANT to me. Another fave of mine is Frehley.

I do feel that Felder is jealous of Joe. In his book he made it known that he knew jazz and looked down at straight ahead rock at one point. His book was full of put downs, some so petty, of all band members and he seemed oddly obsessed with everyone’s hair and even had to comment that Joes iconic bandana was donned because he didn’t wash his hair. :eye roll:

all that preamble before the concerts and whatnot is cringy. I watched again with the up down up down hands, ya it’s a bit over done. Lol. As it’s been said before He is insecure. Always has been. Such a shame because he has such a talent that he tarnished with his behavior. I am not a fan of his voice. But he isn’t too bad for a song or two, and stop the damn auto tune.

I haven’t seen Don live, (besides YouTube) but with him playing so many Eagles tunes I wonder how many in the crowd think he actually had a part in writing many of them? Just wondering.

New Kid In Town

06-15-2021, 09:22 AM

Well, I have to say I pretty much agree with what everyone has said. I personally do not particularly care for Don's voice. Not the worst in the world but nothing to write home about-lol. However, he is an amazing guitar player - one of the best, and he should be proud of that. Austin, I agree with you - he needs to hire a lead singer and then just do what he does best - his amazing guitar playing. I think Don has always wanted to be a lead singer and resented Don and Glenn that they would never give him a lead song after Visions. He was hired for his amazing guitar playing, not his voice. In fact, if you watch You Tube videos from the 70's he rarely sings. He contributed a lot to the sound of the Eagles and helped take them to super star status. It's a shame that he could never accept that he was not a lead singer and just be happy that he was in one of the biggest bands in rock history. His constant complaining and passive/aggressive behavior would have got on my nerves big time.

chaim

06-15-2021, 01:50 PM

Indeed, Joe has a unique voice. If it's a funny song, his voice sounds hilarious. If it's a beautiful song, his voice sounds lovely.

thebagels

06-21-2021, 03:04 PM

I haven’t seen Don live, (besides YouTube) but with him playing so many Eagles tunes I wonder how many in the crowd think he actually had a part in writing many of them? Just wondering.

I'll start by saying that I think Felder really did have a hand in the arrangements/instrumental parts of the songs they did, even the early ones like TIE and PEF as they were performed in the '90s.

For example, the current version of the Eagles still plays Don's arrangement of PEF right down to the same lick after "I've got a peaceful easy feeling" in the chorus and the chord change after "I know you won't let me down."

Of course he wrote many parts to songs in the '70s that he wasn't given songwriter credit for (iirc Randy said in an interview that Don wrote the bassline to OOTN even though he's not credited as a writer on it).

So I really have no problem with him performing the songs he does currently especially since he always says before PEF and TIE "this song is from 1971."

To respond to your question directly, it depends, I think, on how knowledgable the fanbase is as well as how much they care about such things. I saw Steve Augeri (Steve Perry replacement in Journey who recorded a few albums of original material with them) perform. Small crowd, and the setlist was about 80% Perry songs. I was a bit surprised at how off-key Augeri sung years after he left Journey as he did well on a few tracks he recorded 2-3 years after he left Journey and had let his voice rest. But no one really cared about the flat vocal or medleys of Perry song after Perry song, and everyone (mostly drunk iirc) had fun.

On the flipside, kpop fans will absolutely flip their shit if certain members are missing from concerts or if certain songs aren't performed.

chaim

06-22-2021, 03:12 AM

Ray Wilson performing Genesis songs from different eras is weirder than Don performing Eagles songs he played for years, that's for sure. Ray did one album and, as far as I know, not too many gigs with them.

Although he doesn't have to, it's great that Don makes it clear that some of the songs he performs were recorded before he joined. I remember when he said in an interview several years ago that "Originally, when we first started, there five guys in the band"...

KingWalsh

06-23-2021, 04:46 AM

chaim

06-23-2021, 09:38 AM

Just to clarify, not saying he shouldn’t perform them, but I wonder that about a lot of performers who have come and go from various bands when they do solo gigs and perform previous groups works. It is true that songs often have input from various members of bands yet they don’t get Songwriting credits. I think that is true in most bands, that’s what bands do.... they come up with little bits and ideas as the song develops.

True. Btw, I've never understood why many people, including Don himself, have said that Don came up with the OOTN bassline, "although he isn't credited as a songwriter". When was Randy credited as a songwriter for coming up with a bass part?? Writing a bassline is not songwriting. Or do they mean the OOTN intro?

Gene Simmons wrote the main riff for a few early Stanley tunes, but he's not credited. Black Diamond, Love Her All I Can, Firehouse.. Those riffs were basslines Gene wrote for himself to play, but Paul and Ace decided to play them too, so they became the main riffs.

thebagels

06-23-2021, 11:31 AM

True. Btw, I've never understood why many people, including Don himself, have said that Don came up with the OOTN bassline, "although he isn't credited as a songwriter". When was Randy credited as a songwriter for coming up with a bass part?? Writing a bassline is not songwriting. Or do they mean the OOTN intro?

Gene Simmons wrote the main riff for a few early Stanley tunes, but he's not credited. Black Diamond, Love Her All I Can, Firehouse.. Those riffs were basslines Gene wrote for himself to play, but Paul and Ace decided to play them too, so they became the main riffs.

He came up with the intro too if I'm not mistaken. I should have made that clear.

It's difficult to know imo when to draw the line regarding credit for songwriting. Joe gets songwriting credit for the "Life in the Fast Lane" lick, but Don doesn't get songwriting credit for the "Already Gone" lick although they are both played in the intros and choruses. I also suspect (based on what I heard Don playing on his pre-Eagles recordings and his guitar playing in general) that Don probably came up with significant portions of the NKIT arrangement (really complex harmonically, structurally, chordally, etc. compared to all of the early Eagles stuff), but he's not credited for that. Yet he gets credit for HC (which is fair considering he apparently wrote all or almost all of the music except for Joe's guitar parts and the descending harmony guitar line at the end).

chaim

06-23-2021, 11:39 AM

Don came up with the Already Gone lick, not Glenn?

Anyway, I wasn't referring to just your post. I've seen it mentioned quite often that Don wrote the bassline for OOTN, but wasn't credited as a songwriter. People always say "bassline", but I assume they must mean the bass lick that starts the song.

chaim

06-23-2021, 11:45 AM

And IF Don had something to do with the NKIT chords, he has my respect. That song is a monster in terms of chords and modulations.

Ive always been a dreamer

06-23-2021, 11:53 AM

Yeah - Songwriting credits can get sticky since each band draws their own lines about who gets credited for what. I always wondered why Joe didn't get credit for his significant contribution on the Hotel California outro. TBH, I don't recall ever hearing anything about any significant contributions by Felder on NKIT. If my memory serves me correctly, Felder doesn't mention anything about it in his book and here is what Glenn and Don said about the song in The Very Best of the Eagles booklet ...

NEW KID IN TOWN

GLENN: We won a Grammy® for Best Vocal Arrangement for "New Kid In Town." I'm quite proud of that.

DON: J.D. Souther started the song. It's about the fleeting, fickle nature of love and romance. It's also about the fleeting nature of fame, especially in the music business. We were already chronicling our own demise [laughs]. We were basically saying, "Look, we know we're red hot now, but we also know that somebody's going to come along and replace us -- both in music and in love." We were always doing that double entendre thing, between the music business and personal relationships. But that song was J.D.'s baby -- he was the father of that song.

thebagels

06-23-2021, 12:59 PM

Don came up with the Already Gone lick, not Glenn?

Maybe Glenn came up with the lick, but if that's the case, it would really surprise me if he's playing that lick and all of the guitar fills on the record simply because the tone/timing of the guitar sounds more similar to Don than Glenn to my ear. The tone of the guitar is also consistent from the chorus licks to the Felder part in the solo, but Glenn's part in the solo sounds a bit different tonally to me. Also, Don would play all of those fills and the lick live and sounded much the same as the record imo.

Of course, it's ultimately speculation on my part. Taking apart the arrangements and trying to determine how the instrumental/vocal parts are laid out is generally pretty instructive to me, so any info about who actually did what is always cool to learn.

To respond to I've always been a dreamer, what sets NKIT apart from earlier Eagles releases imo is the way it's laid out. There aren't many fills during the vocals, but they happen in the gaps between them. afaik that's a Felder tendency as Bernie tended to play fills a lot more frequently than Don in the early Eagles. Also, many of the chords use the open B and E strings and walk up and down to different chords using arpeggios. Signature Felder tendency to my ear; he did that all throughout his time with the Eagles and afterwards.

I'm willing to buy that JD or Glenn could have contributed a lot more to the arrangement than I'm aware of, but NKIT doesn't sound too much to my ear like the way Glenn arranged songs (it has some of his tendencies, but the structure is unlike his solo stuff imo).

Desperado had a fairly complex arrangement too, but it was played more chordally, and you didn't really see the same tendencies of very clear walkups, walkdowns, emphasis on suspended chords and open strings, etc. All that is how Don arranges songs, however.

chaim

06-23-2021, 01:17 PM

I'm sure it was Don's idea to play those pre-chorus chords in NKIT as arpeggios, but the actual chords probably came from JD or Glenn. (?) And Don probably did come up with all the guitar fills. I thought you were talking about the actual chords.

As for the Already Gone riff, I trust your ear. I have a lousy ear when it comes to sounds. I've always felt that the riff leads logically to Glenn's part in the solo playing-wise, but I haven't played attention to sound. There's a video clip on YouTube where Glenn plays those licks, because Don missed the gig (was it when his first child was born?). I've always thought that Don's only contribution to the studio version was the high sustained notes above Glenn's solo. But I've been terribly wrong about Eagles guitar parts!

chaim

06-23-2021, 01:26 PM

Adding to my NKIT comment above....Didn't Glenn strum those ascending pre-chorus chords as well?

thebagels

06-23-2021, 02:18 PM

Adding to my NKIT comment above....Didn't Glenn strum those ascending pre-chorus chords as well?

He did, but played a full closed chord on the F#m and (if my ear isn't wrong) and didn't change from a suspended chord to a straight major on G#.

So yeah; I could probably agree that Glenn and/or JD wrote the chords.

As for the Eagles show at Ontario Motor Speedway (yeah; iirc that was within days of the birth of Don's kid if not the same day), Glenn plays the basic lick, but doesn't do any takeoffs on it like Felder did.

What gives me a bit of pause is that in the last verse, Glenn does the same lick that's on the record in the spot after "heaven knows it wasn't you who set me free."

This makes me think that Glenn may have played more lead guitar on the record than I previously believed, but even that lick has a pinch harmonic on the record. I have never heard Glenn do a pinch harmonic anywhere else, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it on the record.

chaim

06-23-2021, 02:23 PM

I have heard Glenn do several pinch harmonics in the early performances. Don't remember if all of them were successful. 😃

chaim

06-23-2021, 02:30 PM

Trying to remember where I've heard Glenn do pinch harmonics...The only example I can recall right now is a short jam between Glenn and Bernie before WW, but that performance doesn't seem to be on YouTube.

UndertheWire

06-23-2021, 05:12 PM

With Already Gone, the story was that it was recorded without Felder but after he was invited to join, he recorded the additional guitar part.

WalshFan88

06-23-2021, 05:24 PM

The lick thebagels is talking about in the last verse sure sounds like a Glenn-ism to me. That just sounds more like Glenn to me. I think Don played it in a lot of the shows because while it's just a simple blues lick, it is too funky to pull off and sing at the same and come back in at the right time. Ask me how I know that. :grin: I've since delegated that lick and some of the fills to the other electric player in the band seeing as I also sing Already Gone. I do Glenn's solo and I also end up playing the Bernie intro. The other guy plays the main line and fills and Don's solo.

My belief is that Bernie came up with the Tele country thing on the intro that he always played and then Joe took over. Glenn played the more audible solo on record. The Felder solo that was overdubbed is buried in the mix but if you've heard Felder play it live, it's easier to hear in the dense mix of a record and it's definitely there. As far as that main repeating line, it's really a toss up between Glenn and Don. It could be either of them. That lick doesn't have a lot of personality (don't get me wrong, it's a great line!), or any identifiable stylistic things that make me say definitively who it is. It's not just a simple lick, but it's one that everyone sounds the same playing it. I would maybe lean towards Don. Especially on the fill bits that get added to the back half of it.

One reason that Glenn probably didn't play the takeoffs that are tailed onto the main repeating lick goes back to what I said about the other lick. It's hard to do that and sing and be in time. If they were Don's licks, Glenn could have played them, they aren't anything technical, but probably not while he's singing. So that Cal Jam version does sound a little bare to me but it's hard to do both and obviously being in time and singing in tempo is more important than replicating every single fill.

chaim

06-23-2021, 05:49 PM

thebagels

06-24-2021, 08:54 AM

Speaking of Already Gone....I saw the band in 1996, and I remember a funny moment between Glenn and Don F. Glenn was playing a solo (probably Already Gone) and Don came to "adjust" one of Glenn's tuning pegs, to "help" him get back in tune. Glenn laughed and I could read his lips saying "thanks".

Now, sometimes I wonder if my head created a memory, but I'm sure that did happen. Was it a planned thing they did at every concert or a spontaneous joke from Don?

They didn't do in Buffalo in 1994 or at Christchurch in 1995. That doesn't mean that it was a spontaneous moment though as it does seem like the Eagles shows from the 90s and later were more theatrical in nature than in the 70s.

Scamp

07-27-2021, 11:22 AM

Just read all the posts. Interesting...I have to say I never even heard Felder sing solo until he was on Hager's tv show. I never followed him. Although he's a great guitar player, he'll be the first to tell you, he just turned me off with his "I had to..." attitude. To me his solos were better after Joe, as he said, taught him how to phrase them. He and Joe played together for a while when the Eagles broke up the first time.
I think he may have been somewhat intimidated by Joe, not so much his playing Bernie' parts on the guitar but all the other things Joe did that he didn't. Joe played a lot of acoustic guitar especially 12 string. That helped Glenn when he was singing. It also gave the band a broader acoustic sound by having a 6 string and 12 string vs just one or the other. Other than the opening to HC I've only seen Don play acoustic in one other song.
About the time Joe came in, Don and Glenn we're thinking that they'd like to have an organ on some songs, Joe plays organ. When he first started you also see him playing the keyboard. This let Glenn step up front when he was singing. Don did play mandolin and steel guitar. Stuart plays Don's part now and plays the mandolin part on guitar, although I believe Stuart plays mandolin.
Did Don contribute to the Eagle's, I'd say yes. But I also think that when he started complaining about everything i think Glenn and Don may have looked at his contributions vs his complaining and his lack of diversity and decided he had to go.