Celebration of "Long Road Out of Eden"!

Thanks for the explanation FP, but I totally understand why people make this assumption. My point is that they shouldn't because it is an assumption based on inadequate information. I would have to take issue with you on several things here. It seems as if you are suggesting that if a songwriter never wrote lyrics about a certain topic or in a certain tone in the past, then they are incapable of ever doing so. Also, the implication of your post is that Henley is the only one of the song's writers that hold the views expressed in the song. I find it hard to believe that Glenn, Steuart, or any other songwriter would want their name attached to any song that did not reflect their own beliefs. So at the risk of beating a dead horse, we may just have to agree to disagree here.

We do not know for sure who wrote what; that is absolutely true.

However, I tend to agree with FP that the odds strongly point to the lyrics being written largely by Don. While Glenn certainly has the ability to write on whatever he chooses no matter what he's done in the past, I think it's fair to use his past work as grounds upon which to speculate.

In the past, Don has tended towards the biting, accusatory, judgmental style of lyrics about the weaknesses of those who hold different viewpoints both politically and religiously. Glenn has not. The closest you get is Glenn's criticism of Ronald Reagan in Blues for Ronald Reagan and his criticism of greedy rich people in I've Got Mine, but neither condemn other political and religious viewpoints. Reagan is presented as someone who betrays on a personal level. His followers are not condemned. Indeed, Glenn includes himself among the fooled. I've Got Mine isn't about a particular political or religious view either.

While Glenn may have suddenly changed his tone, topicality, and writing style for this song, I think it is fair to say that it is not as likely as the scenario that Don simply wrote the same way he always does and Glenn did not contribute the majority of the lyrics.

Again, though, we cannot be 1000% sure.... and if Glenn put his name on it, he at the very least is fine with the message.

ETA: I should also note that while Glenn's name is on the song LROOE as a co-write, he credited ALL the lyrics to Don - "Henley's outdone himself." It is not a stretch to believe the same is probably true here.

It's hard to say how songwriting teams write. Unless they specifically tell you who wrote what (as Lennon - McCartney did) all we can do is speculate. But your posts remind me of a story about The Beatles' song Getting Better. Paul says in Barry Miles book, Many Years From Now

I was sitting there doing 'Getting better all the time' and John just said in his laconic way, 'It couldn't get no worse', and I thought Oh, brilliant! This is exactly why I love writing with John. He'd done it on a number of other occasions, he does a Greek chorus thing on 'She's Leaving Home', he just answers. It was one of the ways we'd write. I'd have the song quite mapped out and he'd come in with a counter-melody, so it was a simple ordinary story.

Maybe someday Don or Glenn (or both!) will do an article or a book in which they tell more about their process.

That would be a fascinating book to read!

Yep, I agree that would be a fascinating book. I soooo wish Don and Glenn would provide us with more specific information about their songwriting process. But, if all of it is just committed to their memories, it's possible that they don't even recall a lot of the details, especially about the early days. Some clarification sure would be handy though. :wink: :nod:

I wasn’t going to keep harping on this topic if no one was interested, but I’ll carry on if people want to continue discussing it. I want to say though that I’m not trying to come across as lecturing anyone, but this is something I feel rather strongly about. So I’m on my soapbox now and ready to go … :wink:

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Originally Posted by sodascouts

However, I tend to agree with FP that the odds strongly point to the lyrics being written largely by Don. While Glenn certainly has the ability to write on whatever he chooses no matter what he's done in the past, I think it's fair to use his past work as grounds upon which to speculate.

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I’m not trying to say that the lyrics to the song aren’t largely written by Don. However, neither am I prepared to say that they were written exclusively by Don. I also disagree with your last statement here. Most artists always seem to be on a mission to find new ways of being creative. I think they are always trying to think “outside of their box’, so it makes it easier for them to change than it is for many of us. I hate to use this word, but for lack of a better one, I don’t think creative people are narrow-minded thinkers that get stuck in a rut. My guess is that they thrive on trying something different, and don’t like doing things because they’ve always done it that way. Now, I acknowledge that I’m generalizing here, and I’m sure Don and Glenn are creatures of habit to some degree. But, I just don’t buy into the idea that “Glenn never does this” or “Don always does this”.

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Originally Posted by sodascouts

In the past, Don has tended towards the biting, accusatory, judgmental style of lyrics about the weaknesses of those who hold different viewpoints both politically and religiously. Glenn has not. The closest you get is Glenn's criticism of Ronald Reagan in Blues for Ronald Reagan and his criticism of greedy rich people in I've Got Mine, but neither condemn other political and religious viewpoints. Reagan is presented as someone who betrays on a personal level. His followers are not condemned. Indeed, Glenn includes himself among the fooled. I've Got Mine isn't about a particular political or religious view either.

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I really don’t agree with this assessment either. To begin with, your logic is based on your first statement, which I have said previously, I don’t agree with. I just don’t see the lyrics in FGOTBP as “the biting, accusatory, judgmental style” as you do. I think they are more intended to be humorous sarcasm. Again, while the style may be primarily Don’s, I don’t agree that this isn’t some of Glenn’s style. The reason that people think it’s Don is because every time an Eagles song uses a similar tone or style, everyone automatically concludes that Don wrote all the lyrics. Another example of this is ‘Get Over It’. Many (myself excluded) just automatically assumes Don wrote it because of the content of the song. To me, this is problematic, which is exactly the reason I ever mentioned it in the first place. As long as we continue to categorize them based on inadequate information, we continue to promote these stereotypes. I guess it’s the fandom’s own little mini version of social profiling. I don’t object to speculating – as a matter of fact, I do it often. However, the danger is that unless it’s clear that it is speculation, it can become misleading to the point that people accept speculation as fact. This seemed to be the case as I read through the discussion about the song in this thread.

Now, again, this continues to be a very interesting discussion and I’d like to hear other people’s thoughts. I suspect as I said before, we will have to just agree to disagree on much of this, but it’s interesting nonetheless. I’ll be the first to admit that I am hypersensitive about this, but stereotyping just happens to be a huge pet peeve of mine. So … stepping down from soapbox for now. :grin:

Regarding Glenn's statement 'Henley's outdone himself' re the lyrics of LROOE I would now share Dreamer's view that this does not necessarily mean that Glenn did not contribute to the song's lyrics, but as so often, he gives Don the credit. He does that all the time. Look at the 'without Don we'd be Air Supply' stuff. He underplays himself to an almost ludicrous extent.

I had no desire at all to say that based on Glenn's past work he could never write a lyric like FGOTBP but that was all I had to go on. I certainly have no desire to perpetuate any stereotypes. However, I still believe it was mainly written by Don, based on the construction of it. As you say we should now agree to disagree on this.

Whether Glenn and/or Steuart share the views expressed in the lyrics is another issue. It is an Eagles song so I imagine they do share the views.

I really hope that Glenn and Don do write some more songs together. I would like to see them share their political views more with us, if in fact that is what they did with this song.

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Originally Posted by Freypower

However, I still believe it was mainly written by Don, based on the construction of it. As you say we should now agree to disagree on this.

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Well, actually FP, we can agree to agree on this statement. :wink: I do agree that in all probability Don was the primary writer of the lyrics. However, I just think we shouldn't exclude the possibility that Glenn (and/or Steuart) helped with some of the lyrics.

As I said before, at the very least, I believe we should assume that all three writers share in the credit or blame for the song when we praise or criticize them.

Something else to ponder - and perhaps we can now widen the discussion somewhat. Regarding 'stereotypes' - that is, that Don sings the 'political' stuff and Glenn sings the love songs - I had really hoped that on this album they would make an attempt to depart from these roles, but it didn't happen. (How Long and Somebody, while uptempo, are not 'poltical' even though one review suggested Somebody was directed at Bush). I always think 'surely Glenn sometimes gets bored singing love ballads' and I have the Strange Weather album to back that up. It also would have been nice, if for once in his Eagles career he could have sung lead on the title track (but it obviously was not going to happen here). He does have the 'final say' (for the first time ever) if you will with It's Your World Now. I think it took some bravery to write those lyrics given that they supposedly deal with a man who is dying. The first time I heard it I found it very depressing but I tend to think of it as 'uplifting' now. But even Don said he thought the lyrics were 'important'.

I'm reviving this thread because Long Road Out of Eden was released three years ago today. Wow, can you believe it??

I'm so glad the Eagles went ahead and released this album after all those years of "dormancy." It not only showed that they still had writing and singing chops, but that they had the guts to take a risk and not rest on their laurels, so to speak.

I feel so lucky as an Eagles fan for Long Road Out of Eden and the subsequent tour and events that followed.

Thank you, Eagles!

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Originally Posted by sodascouts

I'm reviving this thread because Long Road Out of Eden was released three years ago today. Wow, can you believe it??

I'm so glad the Eagles went ahead and released this album after all those years of "dormancy." It not only showed that they still had writing and singing chops, but that they had the guts to take a risk and not rest on their laurels, so to speak.

I feel so lucky as an Eagles fan for Long Road Out of Eden and the subsequent tour and events that followed.

Thank you, Eagles!

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I'm very glad as well for them releasing the album and touring. I got to see them in 2008 on that tour in Chicago (Sept. 25th). I wanted to make it to the Soldier Field show last summer but I couldn't due to some health problems.

So to echo Soda's statement - Thank you, Eagles!