Here's an interview with the engineer who is doing Felder's record. He talks about it some along with Felder writing Hotel California here:
http://www.sonicscoop.com/2012/01/01...ality-control/
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Here's an interview with the engineer who is doing Felder's record. He talks about it some along with Felder writing Hotel California here:
http://www.sonicscoop.com/2012/01/01...ality-control/
'He wrote Hotel California for God's sake'.
He wrote the MUSIC for Hotel California, or some of it.
'He's been making music for thirty some odd years'.
Since he was fired, he has yet to produce any new music at all. In the 14 year period before the Eagles reformed, he made one album.
Don't get me wrong; I wish Felder success, but let's have some accuracy.
Why do people have to downplay Felder's part in the writing of Hotel California? He wrote the music & yes, that was pretty major.
Yes, but he did not write the ENTIRE song. To state this is not 'downplaying' his part in it.
Well, to me it is downplaying it. As far as I know, Felder wrote all the guitar parts, the introduction, the melody. I would be curious to know what part of the song he didn't write. Does anybody actually know this?
It's well known that Henley & Frey wrote the lyrics, but your quote was:
I don't want to argue this. It's long in the past.Quote:
"He wrote the MUSIC for Hotel California, or some of it. "
Felder is no longer an Eagle, & they've all moved on.....Peace out!!!
I remember Joe saying that he helped Felder work out some of the guitar parts for the song. However, since the co-writers on the song are listed as Don Felder, Don Henley, and Glenn Frey only, I guess it really doesn't matter. If Joe did help, he obviously wasn't credited.
But, I totally agree that none of this is worth arguing over. Only those guys know for sure how it all went down.
For some reason in rock music the vocal melody is often not considered "music". When rock people talk about writing "the music", they often mean the chord progressions, riffs and sometimes full arrangements. As far as I know, Don Felder's demo was an instrumental, on top of which Don Henley and Glenn wrote the vocal melodies and lyrics. Is there someone who thinks that the chorus melody (supposedly written by Glenn or/and Don Henley), for example, doesn't have anything to do with the song's appeal?
Not me! :grin:
Amen, chaim!
You know, it's only right that Felder take his deserved credit for jump-starting and co-writing the song. It just irks me when he happily takes credit for the song in its entirety.
He has every right to be very proud of his significant contribution; why isn't that enough for him? Why does he have to act as if he wrote it himself?
Note: To be fair, he does share credit in his book. It's only in interviews and press where he presents himself as "Don Felder, the Man Who Wrote Hotel California." I daresay we can expect this from press on his new album, although one can always hope he "sees the light" so to speak and puts the brakes on that misrepresentation.
The chorus melody, as others have said about THIO, is what gets the crowd going & singing along. It's unusual in that it only occurs twice in the song. Without that chorus, the song would be very similar to a rambling epic by Dylan like Desolation Row (which I love).
It is possible of course that in the demo Don (Felder) had guitars playing the melodies that later became vocal melodies. But he doesn't mention writing any vocal melodies in his book. On the other hand he says that he had some ideas for vocal melodies for Victim of Love.
As for Don shouting around that he wrote Hotel California...Here's my theory: As we know, when the Hell Freezes Over came out, Hotel California was suddenly credited to Henley/Frey/Felder, and this naturally irritated him. So he wants people to remember that he did originate the song. This I would perfectly understand. Having said that, Glenn could go around reminding people that he composed and played the guitar solos in ICTYW. :grin:
I thought about that motivation, too, chaim. I think he believed "the gods" were being petty by doing that as well as diminishing his role, and perhaps he feels that justifies him being petty in return and exaggerating his role.
Nah. I just think he likes to winge and whine. :nausea:
Note: I moved these posts from the thread about Felder's new album because these don't really talk about that topic and you know how I like to keep things straight. ;) Hope no one minds!
I do believe Felder did write the music for Hotel California, with the exception of Joe's guitar solo, which Joe added some things to. Also it was Joe's idea for the ending triads at the tail end of the song. You know the part I'm talking about, both guitars are playing that 3 note outro at the same time. Joe came up with that, according to Don Felder in a guitar DVD I have. He said that was Joe's idea to put that on the end to kind of bring the song to a close.
So other than Joe's solo (which he took from Felder's demo and kind of added things to it and played it in his own style) and the ending triads, Felder did write the music from the intro to the verses to the chorus parts, etc.
Now, as far as lyrics... I've been flamed (somewhat) by saying I think Don Henley wrote most of the lyrics for Hotel. I will always believe that. I realize both Don and Glenn have songwriting credits on the song but I can hear and tell a difference between their writing styles. Don has a special way of making a song like a story or like a movie in your head and very much to where it's like you see photographs in your head of what's happening as the song goes along and his songs are very photographic in a way. Frey came up IMO with the concept of driving into LA, seeing the strip, etc. I think he came up with the concept of the song, but Don has a special way of laying out the lyrics to where it plays out like a movie in your head. He's a brilliant lyricist. EVERY Don Henley song has that to where you can visualize what's happening and it's like he's throwing snapshots out at you of what it's suppose to mean and you form your own interpretation of what it's about. Glenn's writing style is great as well but doesn't have that story/movie-playing-in-your-head aspect to it at all and those songs don't have that visual story to it like Henley's songs do.
I think they all contributed to Hotel California (song), but I'm not afraid to say I think the bulk of the music was written by Felder, and the bulk of the lyrics were written by Henley. Joe did have his parts he added in the music, and Frey had his parts he added in the concept and perhaps idea for the lyrics, but to me Hotel is a Felder/Henley song to me.
The solo in Hotel California is quite frankly the best of all time and I don't think it will ever be topped. It just has such an amazing tone to it and the notes in that solo just grab you. Plus you have two amazing players, from different styles, one being a schooled technical player (Felder) to a more loose blues based old school player (Walsh, which I personally prefer for my own playing) and when you put them together on that solo it just becomes amazing. It's so iconic and when you hear it you know instantly what it is, if you hadn't heard the song before it. Then at the end with the outro of the twin leads at the end, it just really "sums" up the song and there couldn't be any better way to end the song off than to have Joe and Don (Felder) play it out like that.
Hotel to this day still gives me chills when I hear it. It was on the radio yesterday going to the doctor and when it came on I got chills and a huge smile on my face. It to this day inspires me and gives me happiness and motivation and always can bring me out of a slump. It's such a moving song and to me is the soundtrack of my life and is my life theme song. Even though I didn't partake in excess in the 70s, I still can relate to that song and it feels like it was written for me as I can connect with it and even the lyrics of the song are like it's about me - which is strange because again, I wasn't in that "scene". It inspires me in general as well as on guitar and as you all know, is the reason I started in the first place. If I hadn't heard Hotel California on that special day, I would not be talking to you all today. I wouldn't be talking to anyone... I truly have unbelievable amounts of admiration and respect for this band as a whole and especially Joe Walsh as I really felt a "connection" to him as a person with his personality as well as his style of guitar playing. If it weren't for Joe and the Eagles, I'd hate to say what would have happened. I hope to meet them all one day and tell them how much it means to me. I'd also like to meet Felder and tell him the same. They all are the reason I'm here.
At the end of the day, I don't care about the little details of who wrote what, all I know is that Hotel California to me is the best song and album ever recorded and is truly the song of my life. The album is the soundtrack of my life and is the one I want played at my funeral. It truly continues to give me endless motivation, inspiration, and happiness and that's all that matters. Not who wrote this little bit at 2 minutes in. The song as a whole is what makes me happy. And the whole album is one of the only ones where I never skip one track. It's a timeless masterpiece and is truly the best one I've heard.
Conceptualization aside, in terms of specifics, Glenn has specifically stated he helped write the chorus, and nothing else.
When did he say that?
I don't have a problem with the idea that Henley wrote most of the lyrics but I think it's unfair to dismiss Glenn's role in the composition of the song so completely. As has been stated by others, he & Don Henley probably composed the chorus/vocal melody.
The fact is only the three songwriters know for sure who wrote what.
I'm not dismissing anything. I do think Glenn came up with the concept, and I remember him saying such in interviews. And he probably did come up with the chorus. I think he did contribute to the song - as I said I think they all contributed to the song, but the bulk of it is Henley/ Felder to me. But I'm not dismissing anything at all. But it's not a Glenn song and doesn't sound like one either, lyrically/musically. Just like Take it Easy isn't a Henley song.
If Glenn himself says it, then I believe it. There's no need to try and grasp more credit for him than he himself claims.
Alternatively, there's no need to try to deny him that credit by characterizing it as a "Henley/Felder song."
Honestly, I don't really care all that much about whether he wrote the chorus, or part of the chorus, or whatever. It's an Eagles song. Anyone who tries to make it about a certain Eagle(s) is missing the point. This song isn't about who played what, who wrote what. It's about the synthesis that came together when this band brought the song to fruition... and all the Eagles were a part of that.
I think they all contributed as I said, and it is an Eagles song and sounds like one, it's just that it comes across as Henley's signature song. It's "his" song, just like Take It Easy is Glenn's song. I really am not saying it was his work and his work alone but it is the one where the writing really comes across as that guy's song, and that is Henley's style. I can't imagine Glenn singing Hotel California and I can't imagine Henley singing Take It Easy. Take It Easy is Glenn's "Hotel California". It sounds like Glenn's writing.
Yeah, I'm not sure that was the best example of Glenn's songwriting skill, lol. However, I think "Take It Easy" is comparable to "Hotel California" in terms of what songs the Eagles are best known for.
That's not what I've heard. Only the first verse was Jackson Browne's and he couldn't do anything with it so he gave it to Glenn to finish, and Glenn wrote the rest of it. Sure sounds like Glenn to me.... ;) I can recognize his writing.
According to Glenn's own words from the In The Studio radio show which featured the debut album, all he wrote was the lyric "it's a girl my lord in a flatbed Ford slowing down to take a look at me." Jackson was so happy he gave Glenn 1/2 writing credit
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3067Quote:
Jackson Browne wrote this for his first album, but he didn't know how to finish the song. He gave it to his friend Glenn Frey, who needed songs for his new band - the Eagles. Frey finished the song and the Eagles used it as the first song on their first album. So what was almost a Jackson Browne song became the first single from the new group the Eagles.
Frey's changes to the song included adding the second verse (and the line "Standing on the corner in Winslow, Arizona," and stretching out the "E" in "Easy." He considers the song one of the most important Eagles tracks. In an interview with Bob Costas, he said the song represented "America's first image of our band with the vistas of the Southwest and the beginnings of what became Country-Rock."
But I guess when you think about it, most of Frey's signature songs were co-written with at least one other person. So Take It Easy may be as good of an example as any of them. ;) New Kid In Town was of course with JD Souther, Heartache Tonight with Bob Seger, etc etc etc. And songs like Peaceful Easy Feeling and Already Gone were all Jack Tempchin's writing.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Yes, SS is right. Glenn has said that he wrote just that line many times. This is a quote from him that can be found in their Very Best booklet:"Jackson Browne, J.D. Souther, and I all lived at 1020 Laguna in Echo Park. J.D. and I shared a $60-a-month, one-room apartment -- a couch and kind of a bed with a curtain in front of it. Right underneath us in an even smaller studio apartment was Jackson. He had his piano and guitars down there. [...] That's when I first heard 'Take It Easy.'" I told him that I really liked it. "What was that, man? What a cool tune that is." He started playing it for me and said, "Yeah, but I don't know -- I'm stuck." So he played the second unfinished verse and I said, "It's a girl, my lord, in a flatbed Ford, slowin' down to take a look at me." That was my contribution to "Take It Easy," really, just finishing the second verse. Jackson was so thrilled. He said, "Okay! We cowrote this." But it's certainly more of him. Sometimes, you know, it's the package without the ribbon. He already had the lines about Winslow, Arizona. He'd had car trouble and broken down there on one of his trips to Sedona. He spent a long day in Winslow.... I don't know that we could have ever had a better opening song on our first album. Just those open chords felt like an announcement, 'And now ... the Eagles.'" (Very Best Liner Notes 2003)Just like you can always recognize Henley's writing, eh? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WalshFan88
Indeed, there are no Eagles songs credited solely to Don Henley. However, there is one solo song credited solely to him: "A Month of Sundays." I believe that is the only one.
Not that there's anything wrong with that - that's just the way he and Glenn work best - as collaborators.
As for Glenn, he has written the following songs by himself: "Chug All Night," "Most of Us Are Sad," "Get You in the Mood," "No More Cloudy Days," "You Are Not Alone," "I Dreamed There Was No War," "All Those Lies", and "Agua Tranquilla." Did I miss anything?
Austin, this is the part of your post that I take issue with the most. I agree with what you say about Don Henley’s brilliant songwriting, but I don’t agree that this talent is unique to him. If this were the case, then I guess you would argue that any cinematic lyrics in any Eagles song was written by Henley since the implication is that Glenn is incapable of this. You have said yourself before on this board that you aren’t that familiar with Don’s and Glenn’s solo work. Don certainly has some songs where the lyrics aren’t that impressive and don’t have that “story/movie-playing-in-your-head aspect” that you describe. On the other hand, Glenn has some solo songs that have wonderful visual imagery and storytelling. So, IMO, it is implausible to stereotype them like this. It is the combination of talent that the two men brought to the table that makes their songwriting partnership in the Eagles so special – or as has been often said said … ‘the sum greater than the parts’.
I agree with this, but you are the one that has brought this up for discussion several times and characterize it as a Felder/Henley song, so it’s natural that other fans will respond. As we keep repeating over and over, none of us really knows exactly who wrote what, and the actual recollections of the songwriters may not even be totally reliable. I’ve never seen the information that Scarlet Sun referred to, but Henley and Frey have been fairly consistent over the years in everything I’ve ever read regarding their collaboration in writing the lyrics for the song. I wish I had some time to dig up some more old interviews, but I don’t. Here are the excerpts of their comments on the subject in the 2004 The Very Best of the Eagles liner notes, as well as, part of what Felder said on the matter in his Heaven and Hell book in 2007. His account doesn’t quite jive with Henley’s and Frey’s, so it’s no wonder there is such confusion about this …
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Frey and Don Henley The Very Best of the Eagles liner notes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Felder – My Life in the Eagles (1974-2001) Heaven and Hell Page 172
I'm not saying Glenn is a bad songwriter at all and I fully realize they are a songwriting team. It's just that for me I can see which parts are who's and to me every Henley song I can picture in my head. I can't say that for Glenn's. It's not a knock on his songwriting or that every songwriter has to do this. But it is an identifiable trait of Don's that I recognize. Maybe others don't see the imagery. Music is a very personal experience. But even "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" plays out in my head. I can see the plane taxing down the runway in my head and the Molotov cocktail and all of that. Maybe everyone can't but it's just something I personally identify with Henley's writing. And not necessarily all lyrics or concept, but the way they are composed and "laid out".
I realize most probably won't agree but I'm in no way saying Glenn is less of a songwriter than Don or anything like that. But they both have traits in their songwriting that I personally pick up on. Just like in the Beatles, I can tell who's parts are who's. Macca has a different writing style than Lennon, and so on. And that's what MAKES them such a great team because they are so blatantly different in style.
But in no way am I slamming Glenn, FWIW.
Everything you describe in ASWTDID (which, by the way, was written by Danny Kortchmar, not Don Henley) I can see in Smuggler's Blues. I can also see it in River Of Dreams. In fact I see everything you describe in the entire Strange Weather album. And I see it in Glenn's LROOE songs too, even though they may not be so obviously visual, and of course he didn't write a couple of them.
In any case, songs can also be about emotions, not just storytelling, and in that respect some of Glenn's more 'emotional' songs are very effective.
You may well believe that you know 'whose parts are whose'. I don't claim that knowledge. I just enjoy the wonderful songs the two of them came up with.
lol! Well if we go back that far, Henley contributed a song or two to Shiloh!
"Run Boy Run" - the sad tale of the accidental statutory rapist. Not Glenn's finest moment lyrically, but hey, it's catchy! "Rebecca" has its moments, but it's another tale where our hero is less than a sympathetic character, cheating on his woman. Anyone else have the feeling that Glenn was not a man that a woman could trust back in the day? lol
I completely agree with you about the imagery, FP. Perhaps it doesn't speak to everyone, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freypower
And as FP pointed out, ASWTDID was written solely by Danny Kortchmar. Henley did not write any of those lyrics.Quote:
Originally Posted by WalshFan88
This is the second time you have "personally identified" traits of a songwriter in lyrics that he didn't actually write. Perhaps it's time to accept that you have no more insight into who writes what than the rest of us.
I like you, Austin, but sometimes you make the mistake of stating your opinions as if they were fact. It's part of growing up to accept your mistakes and learn from them. Let this be one of those times.
I know it was written by someone else - that's my point. Other songwriters can do this too - not just one person. Meaning that I'm not just singling out Don or "picking on Glenn". But when comparing Don to Glenn, it's different to me. Maybe it's different for every person.
Also I never said anything was fact - I'm doing what you and everyone else is doing - giving opinions. That's all they are and ever will be.
I can see I'm getting nowhere in a hurry with this...sigh. Agree to disagree.