Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scottside
Most, if not all, of the Henley/Frey songs were listed this way no matter who had the larger contribution.
On the Henley/Frey co-writes, yes, it seems they must have agreed to list it in that order, for some reason, although I just looked and "What Do I Do With My Heart" and "Good Day In Hell", Glenn is listed first, but I know Don Felder talked about it, and on Hell Freezes Over, his name got shuffled behind Henley and Frey's on Hotel California. He talked about his name had always been first, and that the band worked that way. Whoever brought the biggest piece got the first credit.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
Thanks, Groupie.
The topic is meant to focus on just the Henley/Frey songwriting partnership. When other songwriters are involved, it’s harder to know just who contributed how much, esp. when the song was initiated by the other songwriter. For example, it’s pretty well-known Jackson Browne began and wrote most of Take It Easy but what about James Dean, a song also begun by Jackson? How much of it did he end up writing? JD Souther began New Kid in Town, Felder began HC, etc. When there’s 4 songwriters, it gets a bit crowded...the partnership gets diluted.
However these Henley/Frey collaborations could be a thread topic as well.
Doolin-Dalton (w/ Souther, Browne)
Out of Control (w/ Tom Nixon)
Certain Kind of Fool (w/ Meisner)
Saturday Night (w/ Meisner, Leadon)
DD/Desperado reprise (w/ Souther, Browne)
On the Border (w/ Leadon)
James Dean (w/ Browne, Souther)
Best of My Love (w/ Souther)
Hollywood Waltz (w/ B Leadon, T Leadon)
Take It to the Limit (w/ Meisner)
Hotel California (w/ Felder)
New Kid in Town (w/ Souther)
Life in the Fast Lane (w/ Walsh)
Victim of Love (w/ Felder, Souther)
I Can’t Tell You Why (w/ Schmit)
Disco Strangler (w/ Felder)
Heartache Tonight (w/ Seger, Souther)
Those Shoes (w/ Felder)
Teenage Jail (w/ Souther)
Sad Cafe (w/ Walsh, Souther)
Long Road Out of Eden (w/ Schmit)
Center of the Universe (w/ Smith)
That would be a good thread topic too, Delilah. Lots of great songs in that list!
I don't know if it was always whoever wrote the most had the first credit, I've seen it listed alphabetically too.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
Yes, the song lead distribution got me to thinking that in addition to the “we had Don Henley” justification, maybe Don was able to argue his case for singing those leads b/c he wrote most of the lyrics.
I'd even go a step further and hypothesize that the reason Glenn sings lead on "What Do I Do With My Heart" is that he wrote most of the lyrics. Not only does he get the first writing credit, but the lyrics sounds much more Frey-ish than Henley-ish. (Not trying to make any judgments here; I really like the song.) I wonder if Don wrote he lyrics for the part he sings, as I believe he did for "After the Thrill is Gone".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
I almost went with The Long Run, even though it isn’t a favorite of mine. After all, it was a top 10 hit, a concert staple and a statement about themselves and the band. But I couldn’t see putting it up there with songs like One of These Nights or Lyin Eyes which are not just great but are original creations. At any rate, my favorite part of The Long Run is probably the bass, which is a Timothy part.
I almost chose The Long Run, also. I do really like the song, but when I think of the great songs, I think of the ones up to and including The Last Resort. (And some others that were not written solely by Henley and Frey).
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Here's a Don Felder Quote, that I found on another thread about Hotel California song writing credits originally posted by Sodascouts.
"But I did want to say something about “Hotel California.” When I wrote that song and that track, and we put it on the album, on the original vinyl in 1976, the credits read, “ Hotel California,’ written by Don Felder, Don Henley and Glenn Frey.” And typically when songwriters write together, the person who wrote the most of that song is listed first, the person who wrote the second amount is listed second, and the person who wrote the least is listed third. If you look at the ’76 vinyl, that’s the credits. When we reformed in 1994, and we re-recorded “Hotel California,” which is, as far as I know, the only song recorded twice, by the same band, and has been nominated for Grammys both times. But on those credits, after I rearranged the whole track, wrote the introduction, wrote the solos, wrote everything, and Don Henley did nothing different from what he’d done before, and Glenn Frey added nothing to it in ’94, the credits read, “‘Hotel California,’ written by Don Henley, Glenn Frey and Don Felder.”
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BillBailey1976
Also I know that the songwriting credits are listed in order of most to least contribution.
For instance "I Can't Tell You Why" is listed with Tim first, because as best I remember the stories, he came to the studio with that song basically done.
From what I’ve read, this is not how songwriting credits are listed, at least not for the Eagles. It may be the case for other bands. Whoever comes up with the song idea or starts the song gets listed first. E.g. Timothy has said in interviews as well as on stage that he had bits and pieces of song ideas when he first joined the band. Glenn liked one of them and worked out the music while Henley completed the lyrics. The result is I Can’t Tell You Why which doesn’t sound like anything TBS wrote for Poco or his subsequent solo material. He is listed first in the credits b/c he had the initial song idea.
Another example is Saturday Night. Randy is listed first b/c he came up with the song idea (as documented in Rolling Stone). But those lyrics are very Henley-like. I suspect this is one of those times where whatever lyrics Randy had were replaced by Henley’s b/c Henley could “say it better” or whatever justification he and Frey gave for re-writing someone else’s lyrics.
ETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BillBailey1976
Here's a Don Felder Quote, that I found on another thread about Hotel California song writing credits originally posted by Sodascouts.
"But I did want to say something about “Hotel California.” When I wrote that song and that track, and we put it on the album, on the original vinyl in 1976, the credits read, “ Hotel California,’ written by Don Felder, Don Henley and Glenn Frey.” And typically when songwriters write together, the person who wrote the most of that song is listed first, the person who wrote the second amount is listed second, and the person who wrote the least is listed third. If you look at the ’76 vinyl, that’s the credits.
That’s interesting but I’m not sure that was always the case. It sounds like he was talking about songwriting in general.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
So I guess really, there may not be any hard and fast rules then, but does seem that the Eagles have sorta traveled back and forth with "most content" and "initial idea" in how they determined it.
I like the idea of the "initial idea' getting the most credit, personally. Without Felder there is no Hotel California, no matter how much he contributed percentage wise, just like Walsh and Life in the Fast Lane, or Glenn with Tequilla Sunrise, and so on.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
From what I’ve read, this is not how songwriting credits are listed, at least not for the Eagles. It may be the case for other bands. Whoever comes up with the song idea or starts the song gets listed first. E.g. Timothy has said in interviews as well as on stage that he had bits and pieces of song ideas when he first joined the band. Glenn liked one of them and worked out the music while Henley completed the lyrics. The result is I Can’t Tell You Why which doesn’t sound like anything TBS wrote for Poco or his subsequent solo material. He is listed first in the credits b/c he had the initial song idea.
Another example is Saturday Night. Randy is listed first b/c he came up with the song idea (as documented in Rolling Stone). But those lyrics are very Henley-like. I suspect this is one of those times where whatever lyrics Randy had were replaced by Henley’s b/c Henley could “say it better” or whatever justification he and Frey gave for re-writing someone else’s lyrics.
ETA:
That’s interesting but I’m not sure that was always the case. It sounds like he was talking about songwriting in general.
The vast majority of Henley-Frey co-writes are listed as 'Henley'-Frey'. If what you say is correct then Henley would have had to have had EVERY SINGLE one of those song ideas. Frankly I doubt that. I suppose I am defending Glenn here but I believe they used 'Henley-Frey' the way the Beatles used 'Lennon-McCartney'.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BillBailey1976
Here's a Don Felder Quote, that I found on another thread about Hotel California song writing credits originally posted by Sodascouts.
"But I did want to say something about “Hotel California.” When I wrote that song and that track, and we put it on the album, on the original vinyl in 1976, the credits read, “ Hotel California,’ written by Don Felder, Don Henley and Glenn Frey.” And typically when songwriters write together, the person who wrote the most of that song is listed first, the person who wrote the second amount is listed second, and the person who wrote the least is listed third. If you look at the ’76 vinyl, that’s the credits. When we reformed in 1994, and we re-recorded “Hotel California,” which is, as far as I know, the only song recorded twice, by the same band, and has been nominated for Grammys both times. But on those credits, after I rearranged the whole track, wrote the introduction, wrote the solos, wrote everything, and Don Henley did nothing different from what he’d done before, and Glenn Frey added nothing to it in ’94, the credits read, “‘Hotel California,’ written by Don Henley, Glenn Frey and Don Felder.”
I got very tired of Felder & his harping on the HC credit. I just don't believe that Glenn at least didnt have some hand in arranging the new version. That is what he did. Does anyone really believe he sat there & said nothing while Felder told them all what to play? He wouldn't have stood for it. The 'Henley-Frey' part of that credit is exactly the same as every other credit with those names; see my post above. His inference of course is that Frey always wrote the least amount of every song.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
The ICTYW credit on HFO is also listed as Henley, Frey, Schmit. I can't think of any reason whatsoever for this, except that perhaps it was a term of the band reuniting. Nothing changed from the Long Run album, where it was listed as Schmit, Henley, Frey. To my knowledge, Timothy has never complained haha.
As far as the HFO version of HC, wasn't Felder "tasked" with coming up with the intro? I sort of believe him in this case. I agree with FP that when it was a case of only Eagles members writing songs, maybe they decided it would always be Henley-Frey, like the Beatles.
Re: The last great Frey and Henley co-write
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
From what I’ve read, this is not how songwriting credits are listed, at least not for the Eagles. It may be the case for other bands. Whoever comes up with the song idea or starts the song gets listed first. E.g. Timothy has said in interviews as well as on stage that he had bits and pieces of song ideas when he first joined the band. Glenn liked one of them and worked out the music while Henley completed the lyrics. The result is I Can’t Tell You Why which doesn’t sound like anything TBS wrote for Poco or his subsequent solo material. He is listed first in the credits b/c he had the initial song idea.
Another example is Saturday Night. Randy is listed first b/c he came up with the song idea (as documented in Rolling Stone). But those lyrics are very Henley-like. I suspect this is one of those times where whatever lyrics Randy had were replaced by Henley’s b/c Henley could “say it better” or whatever justification he and Frey gave for re-writing someone else’s lyrics.
ETA:
That’s interesting but I’m not sure that was always the case. It sounds like he was talking about songwriting in general.
I think that’s the case for some of the songs but not all. For certain kind of fool, Randy is listed as the third contributor although I’m quite sure it was his original song idea. He didn’t add the most but the idea of a song about how a boy became an outlaw was his. The same thing for Take It To The Limit, he is listed third. VOL and LITFL are interesting ones because Henley is listed first in both of those but based on what information I’m aware of, Glenn came up with both song titles, and both songs had licks that songs were built off. The lyrics that Don provided were added last yet he was first. I guess there must not be a pattern to the songwriting credits rather, it depends on context of how each song was made