Anyone noticed this?

So I was rereading Felder's book and found some deja vu moments.

1. Don's childhood was the roughest out of the rest of the Eagles. He was forced to compete with his brother who he initially got along with but as they got older his Father made it clear his brother was the favorite child as he was better in School, with Girls etc. But Felder on the other hand was a poor student who was stricken with polio and was viewed as a disappointment to his father. So when Gerry Felder went off to college and got married Don completely fell out of favor with his father and ran away from home not speaking to his father for 6 years.


1. When Don first joined the Eagles he got along fine with everyone including Glenn who was the one that made him a partner in Eagles LTD. But when they got even more famous Glenn and Don started writing more and more and earned the most money because of it and Felder started resenting that and in 1994 wanted things to be the same as the were when he first joined the band as he did not want to be inferior to Glenn and Henley and as a result was fired. He is still estranged from the rest of the Eagles.

Anyone see the connection? I think part of the reason Felder wanted to know how much money everyone was making stems from that competitive streak from his childhood with his brother. I think the other Eagles did not understand this because from what we know Glenn and Henley also grew up poor but always had a loving family that encouraged the musical ambitions.

I hadn't thought of it before in that context - it makes sense that his rather deprived (and sickly) childhood would make him particularly concerned about money and survival.

I remember when I read the book, I was a bit startled at the very poor, very rural background that Felder came from. I had seen him interviewed on tv (on a business/money cable channel) and he seemed the epitome of a prosperous golfing, yacht-owning Southern California man with no trace of a Southern accent. It's kind of like when you learn Bryan Ferry is a coal miner's son, you're like, "Whaat?!"

My take is similar to yours. When reading the book, I felt there was a strong correlation between how Felder felt about the band and what had happened in his childhood and I think I've mentioned it a few times in the book thread.

Glenn put the issues up the right way. "It festered because we did not talk about these things" I think it could have been worked put if the did talk.

I had no idea about Felder's childhood too but that does make a lot of sense. Maybe it's the writer in me and having a fascination with psychology but this makes so much sense as things that happen in your childhood you carry for the rest of your life and you have to really work at it to not let it affect you as an adult or your relationships with other people as not everyone goes through the same situations. I agree if they talked more and opened up it would've helped.

Bernie could have helped with the discussion. Because he and Felder were friends since they were in High School

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Originally Posted by travlnman2

Bernie could have helped with the discussion. Because he and Felder were friends since they were in High School

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Helped with what discussions?

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Originally Posted by UndertheWire

Helped with what discussions?

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If I understood correctly, the idea is that they should have discussed Felder's past issues so that Glenn and Don H had understood where he was coming from. But I don't know how much Bernie knew about Felder's family issues - or how much he had seen that stuff himself.

Well, Bernie had quit the band before this rift hit the fan. My thiughts are that is wasn't as much about the money( cause they all were doing well), but it was more the respect and integrity. Which could reflect back to his childhood when his father didn't respect the kid he was but thought the only way to be a decent man was to be the great student, clean cut guy, athlete that his brother was. Little did he know what success lay ahead for Felder.

You know if you have a five way equal partnership in a legal contract and then it becomes a 4way equal partnership when Bernie leaves and then 3 way when Randy leaves, and then when they reunite, that contract is ignored and he's just a hired guitarist... It doesn't lend itself to feeling respect or honest from those you work with.

If only they had been open and able to work that out.

Anyone who hasn't read Felters book should go get a copy.

One thing no one talks about is Irving Azoff. I do blame him for causing so much unnecessary tension in the band to benefit himself. Axl Rose claimed that Azoff tried to delay and sink the Chinese Democracy Album in order to have Slash and him reunite at the time. I am part of a few online forums for the band and have seen these documents. Axl was telling the truth. So in a way I do believe Irving did this with the Eagles as well. I have a hunch that Irving "pressured" Glenn and Don to get rid of Felder because when Felder kept asking for the financial documents he supposedly had a right to see he would have discovered something that would have exposed Irving and what ever his intentions were and perhaps maybe Glenn and Don their reasons which clearly were expressed and I believe them but I think Irving was scared by Felder. He seems like an untrustworthy guy in Felder's book more so then Glenn and Don. There were many times in the book were I was like :censored: it Felder just stop going to Irving and Talk with Don and Glenn.
If anyone is interesting in learning more about the Azoff-Axl lawsuit pm me.

How did Irving 'benefit himself' with all the tension? The Eagles were able to continue once Felder was fired, which I supposed benefited Irving, but surely it also benefited the Eagles as a band? They got rid of the troublemaker & they were happier as a result.

What are these ulterior motives you speak of?

I fail to see how you can compare the G&R situation, delaying the release of an album, with firing a band member who was causing trouble. I don't believe Frey & Henley were 'pressured' by Irving. They had to work with Felder & they were tired of his incessant demands.

I do belive Glenn and Henley were tired of Felder and his "letters". I do believe if Felder went STRAIGHT to Glenn and Don instead asking Irving to do it they could have sorted it out. I think one of the key moments is when Irving told him to "NEVER TALK TO THE GUYS"

FP as for his motives one word "MONEY"

Here are a few quotes

"Azoff's control of the "trifecta" of artist management, concert and touring promotion, and ticket sales, Azoff has been able to gain wide influence and power in the music industry. Azoff allegedly decides what artists he wants to promote through favorable touring deals and uses his power to punish artists and harm their careers if they don't follow his orders".

Axl's counter-complaint says that Azoff is violating the consent decree by coercing and bullying artists to do what he wants.


What Azoff wanted, the rocker says, was the reunion of Guns N' Roses. To execute this, he would sabotage Rose and his new band so that Rose would have no option but to reunite.

According to the filing, "Upon realizing that he couldn't bully Rose and accomplish his scheme, Azoff resigned and abandoned Guns N' Roses on the eve of a major tour, filing suit for commissions he didn't earn and had no right to receive."

Further, Axl says the botched tour cost him money in production startup and rehearsal expenses. Claiming breach of fiduciary duty, constructive fraud and breach of contract, the singer wants at least $5 million in damages.

I repeat that I don't believe it would have helped Felder to talk to Frey or Henley instead of Irving. They were fed up with him. They made that clear. Blaming it all on Irving seems to me to miss the entire point.

I can't comment on Irving's role with G&R but they are two different scenarios & I think it's best to keep them separate.

When Felder was fired maybe Glenn thought it was good for EVERYONE if he was no longer in the band. When Glenn said "Reach Some Higher Ground On This" what I read was like "Hey look on the bright side you don't have to be among the tension or obligated to any lawyers tours etc. You can do your own thing and release when ever you feel like and still have a steady lifestyle with income earned of the Eagles and you can make music how you want and with whoever you want." I think that is what Glenn said but Felder obviously went the wrong way and sued them burning all seven bridges. Obviously Glenn and Don could have not went the Pete Best way "Telling the band manager to let a guy know we don't want him working with us anymore." Ihmo it was a cowardly move. It could have been handled alot better then it was.

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Originally Posted by travlnman2

When Felder was fired maybe Glenn thought it was good for EVERYONE if he was no longer in the band. When Glenn said "Reach Some Higher Ground On This" what I read was like "Hey look on the bright side you don't have to be among the tension or obligated to any lawyers tours etc. You can do your own thing and release when ever you feel like and still have a steady lifestyle with income earned of the Eagles and you can make music how you want and with whoever you want." I think that is what Glenn said but Felder obviously went the wrong way and sued them burning all seven bridges. Obviously Glenn and Don could have not went the Pete Best way "Telling the band manager to let a guy know we don't want him working with us anymore." Ihmo it was a cowardly move. It could have been handled alot better then it was.

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How do you think it should have been handled, then?

It was a long time ago & I wonder why people are still so angry about it when nothing can be changed.

I do realise that the issue will be discussed forever. I supported what occurred, so I suppose I had no problem with the way it was done.

Like I said they went with the Pete Best Route which was a cowardly move by Don Glenn and Irving and i think that is why Felder was so piss off he could not get in contact. If I was Glenn or Don I would have called Felder for a meeting and explain why he is being fired and tell him look on the bright side like a said before. If they did that maybe Felder would have not sued the band. It was very poorly handled. I am not saying he should not have been fired I think he should have but giving the duty to Irving(who would not let Felder talk to them.) was a very cowardly move and should have called a meeting and told them why he was being let go.

tm2 - I thought the original purpose of this thread was to discuss Felder's childhood. As far as the circumstances surrounding his dismissal from the band, it has been rehashed ad nauseam in the Felder book thread. I usually do not even participate in these discussion anymore, however, I do think you are misrepresenting the situation. It's not like Felder wasn't communicating with Glenn and Don at all. When a decision is made to fire someone, it usually means that it's too late to resolve the conflicts, so a meeting would have been pointless. When Felder learned of his dismissal, the first thing he did was call Don. When he couldn't reach Don, he called Glenn and Glenn took the call. By Felder's own account, he begged for his job back. But, as I noted, it was too late by then. If you are interested in more details, you should read up on the discussions in that thread and compare it to his book.

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Originally Posted by Ive always been a dreamer

tm2 - I thought the original purpose of this thread was to discuss Felder's childhood. As far as the circumstances surrounding his dismissal from the band, it has been rehashed ad nauseam in the Felder book thread. I usually do not even participate in these discussion anymore, however, I do think you are misrepresenting the situation. It's not like Felder wasn't communicating with Glenn and Don at all. When a decision is made to fire someone, it usually means that it's too late to resolve the conflicts, so a meeting would have been pointless. When Felder learned of his dismissal, the first thing he did was call Don. When he couldn't reach Don, he called Glenn and Glenn took the call. By Felder's own account, he begged for his job back. But, as I noted, it was too late by then. If you are interested in more details, you should read up on the discussions in that thread and compare it to his book.

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Yes, these posts need to be in Felder's book discussion and I second 'ad nauseam'!

I think the entire thread could be merged with the book thread as what we know of Felder's childhood and relationship with his father comes from that.

As far as the "ad nauseum" comments, I think people who have joined the board recently should be allowed to post their views, even if it has been discussed by others before but it's also reasonable to point them at the 113 pages of discussion that have gone before.

Just to clarify - I didn't mean by my comments that folks aren't allowed to post their views. Nor did I intend to single anyone out - I was just trying to encourage all of our members to help to keep threads on topic by posting in the appropriate threads, but I guess I didn't do a very good job of explaining that. Now, with regard to my 'ad nauseam' reference, I afraid I have to stand by that. Speaking strictly for myself, after almost 16 years of going around in circles about the same topic, I'm personally pretty tired of discussing the circumstances of Felder's dismissal. If there were to be any new information that came out, I'm sure that would pique my interest. However, barring that, I'll continue to opt out of these discussions unless I feel the facts are being misstated or misrepresented.

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Originally Posted by travlnman2

Glenn and Don could have not went the Pete Best way "Telling the band manager to let a guy know we don't want him working with us anymore." Ihmo it was a cowardly move. It could have been handled alot better then it was.

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If it was good enough for The Beatles...
From what I remember of History Of The Eagles, Glenn's ultimatum was personally fired at a Felder representative, so Felder wasn't looking for direct communication either.

I'm not surprised that Felder's upbringing is a bit of a sob story. Some people only ever see themselves as victims. :|

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Originally Posted by Funk 50

I'm not surprised that Felder's upbringing is a bit of a sob story. Some people only ever see themselves as victims. :|

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It's because he is. He was screwed over and disrespected. End of.

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Originally Posted by WalshFan88

It's because he is. He was screwed over and disrespected. End of.

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I'm sorry but 'end of' can be used from the other perspective too. He was a troublemaker & they fired him. End of.

Both arguments are as valid as each other at this distance.

If this is an Eagles board, I don't see why there should be attacks and animosity to ANY of the seven Eagles. All seven of them contributed to make this band the most successful American band of the 20th century...and perhaps for all time. It's obviously a band we all love or you wouldn't waste time on this message board!

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Originally Posted by Eagles7

If this is an Eagles board, I don't see why there should be attacks and animosity to ANY of the seven Eagles.!

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Felder, who's career is sort of a premium Eagles tribute act, wrote a book that was very unkind to his former band mates and also dragged them through court.

He deserves it. The other 6 I'm happy to defend. :wink:

People saying Felder deserved it he was a trouble maker etc are No better then Felder fans trashing Glenn and Don. Felder fans jump to a conclusion and defend him everytime the lawsuit is brought up and then there are Glenn and Don fans taking everyword they say as truth and attack anyone who says something nrgative about them and dont see there faults either. Its a classic case of my side your side and the truth. Untill the actual lawsuit and trial papers are made public this feud will continue. Unless one side tells the truth. Right now all we have is Felder's side with his book and the HOTE doc. Untill the lawsuits documents are made public this bickering will continue. Back on topic please

I'm sorry, but once again, I have to take issue with some of these arguments. While it is certainly true that we will never know all of the facts surrounding Felder’s departure, it’s also true that we know a lot more than just what was in Felder’s book and the HOTE documentary. There are many other books, interviews, and social media sites, etc. that also shed a lot of insight about the situation. Once again, for anyone who really is interested in what is actually known and not known, I would suggest that you read through the threads in this forum, as well as the HOTE doc thread in the Eagles forum. As I’ve said before, biases on both sides are well represented, but I find the threads to be very informative.

Speaking for myself, as I have previously stated many times, I have been following Felder’s dismissal from almost the time that it happened so I’ve done my homework. While I certainly would never proclaim to know everything, I do believe I am pretty well informed. For the record, I believe that all parties involved bear responsibility for the entire unfortunate saga. I have to admit, I take offense to accusations that I blindly defend ‘the Gods’ no matter what because I have formed my opinions and beliefs about Felder based on known facts and what he himself has said and done throughout the years, not what others have said about him. The same holds true for the other band members. And as far as the comment ‘unless one side tells the truth’ all I can say is that everyone has their own version of the truth, so that’s why I find it best to form my opinions based only on well-rounded, substantiated, and reliable information. And as I said earlier, I only participate in the discussions now when I feel information is being misstated or misrepresented.

I apologize for sounding harsh but this situation is not only relevant to the Eagles but to Guns N Roses as well. Axl Roses always told the truth and people still did not believe him and always were attacking him and wanting Slash back and saying he cant sing and CD is not Guns N Roses etc. I apologize if you were offended.

My final point is until the lawsuit files are made public it still is a classic case of he said I said and the truth. Most people generally don't follow it as long. Sorry again :)

Well, it is good to do some reading / research and objective thinking before digging your feet into the sand. I feel like there are some people who just slam Felder and his book when they haven't even taken the time to read the book. It is not a tell -all...there's much more that he and all of them could tell on each other and didn't. He calls the book his autobiography, and at least the first third is all about his life growing up , his music influences and him starting to play music before he ever was an Eagle. Quite a bit deals with His marriage and he includes his flaws, as well.

While we don't know the details of the settlement, we do know that there was an Equal 5-way partnership set up after On The Border. Two parts were relinquished after Bernie and Randy left, so then there was a 3 way partnership. A number of bands set up equal partnerships like that. I've tried to imagine if I was in an equal partnership and then my 2 partners decided to reconfigure our pay and the business without conferring with me and then wouldn't be open with the figures and then fired me (how do you do that if it's an equal partnership?) what is my recourse?

Glenn and Irvin pretty much confirmed that when Glenn said he wouldn't do a reunion unless he and Don made more money . He also said he told Felder's lawyer he represented the only asshole and if he didn't sign by the end of the day for WHFO, he was fired.

You can't just ignore the terms of a contract. The only solution after that seemed to be a lawsuit. They counter sued to stop Felder's book.

It's sad that it came to that, but lawsuits happen, they are resolved and then you move on. Don Hendley sued David Geffen at least once, maybe twice, but I think moved on from that.

I read a quote from Glenn saying that everybody said that he and Don caused all the trouble, but he said Don Felder and Joe Walsh caused trouble too. I'm sure there was enough to spread it around.

I was always a number one Glenn fan, but I have to say HOTE,which they constructed, showed Glenn and Don's musical brilliance, as well as the contributions of all the Eagles. However, it did not paint Glenn, and to some degree Don in the best light as far as inter-personal skills. We know there was a period when they didn't even get along with each other. After viewing that and reading Felders book. I found myself swayed more toward Felder's side. When I saw a quote from Bill Szymezyk saying that "Felder's book was true about the stories and the animosities, he did not exaggerate that much", I figured Bill would be a fairly objective source.

Sounds like over time, Felder has put most of that behind him. I am sorry that Glenn did not get to a better resolve because life is way to short to have negativity in your life.

Anyway, we all have our different views and our sides and our favorites, but it's hard to hear people slamming one of the Eagles when the Eagles wouldn't be the great band they were without the contributions of ALL seven Eagles. I love and respect them all, and that's what I wish everyone could agree on.

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Originally Posted by Eagles7

Anyway, we all have our different views and our sides and our favorites, but it's hard to hear people slamming one of the Eagles when the Eagles wouldn't be the great band they were without the contributions of ALL seven Eagles. I love and respect them all, and that's what I wish everyone could agree on.

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Amen.

I think you can assume that most of us have read Felder's book and seen the documentary. If you go to the appropriate threads, you can read everyones thoughts on both.

One big correction - like many you write about "partners" and "partnership" and legal status and this incorrect. Although the band probably started out as a partnership, they incorporated and the five members became equal shareholders of that corporation. It's a different kind of legal entity with different rules.

Yeah being an Eagles fan wasn't solidified until I watched the doc. It was my forst impressions of what the guys were like as I only listend to the music. I didn't even know Henley sangnand played drums at the same time lol. But yeah after my first viewing I imediatly thought jesus Glenn was a real asshole and some other bad words I wont repeat here. It could have been splitnup into several siffrent parts like the Beatles anthology. I am sad I will never get to see them perform live as the Eagles. They came by my area twice and My mother went with my sister the first time she only two and I was put of state the second time. Being on this site slowly is changing my views on Glenn I never thought my avatar be a picture of him.

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Originally Posted by Eagles7

Well, it is good to do some reading / research and objective thinking before digging your feet into the sand. I feel like there are some people who just slam Felder and his book when they haven't even taken the time to read the book. It is not a tell -all...there's much more that he and all of them could tell on each other and didn't. He calls the book his autobiography, and at least the first third is all about his life growing up , his music influences and him starting to play music before he ever was an Eagle. Quite a bit deals with His marriage and he includes his flaws, as well.

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Felder calls his book "Heaven and Hell: My Life in the Eagles (1974-2001)"

I think it's a "tell as much as he can get away with" padded out with stuff that is outside the remit of the title.

Until Felder turned on them, the Eagles were always a very private band. All the dissension was kept in house. As far as the fans knew, they all got on well and liked each other. Even Felder's sacking was low key. I don't think the statement included a bad word against him.

Maybe if Felder, got the pay off he deserved and then started a fresh chapter to his career, I'd be more forgiving but he hasn't budged from his Eagles persona.

It looks like he'll still be playing on his Eagles guise, long after Henley, Walsh and Schmit have moved on.

I'm a bit concerned that we're way off topic so I wont be responding further... sorry :hand:

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Originally Posted by travlnman2

I apologize if you were offended.

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Thanks tm2 -I appreciate and accept your apology. :thumbsup:

As big of a Felder fan that I am, I have yet to still read Felder's book simply due to $$$ reasons (I'm going through bankruptcy as I type this).

Felder's book is something that I would love to read so that I could give a better opinion of him and his relationship with the band while he was an Eagle & after the firing. I will say this: I do think that every band member should get equal pay. I definitely wouldn't work in a band where I'm making a lot less than the two most powerful men in the band (Henley & Frey).

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Originally Posted by Tony Trout

As big of a Felder fan that I am, I have yet to still read Felder's book simply due to $$$ reasons (I'm going through bankruptcy as I type this).

Felder's book is something that I would love to read so that I could give a better opinion of him and his relationship with the band while he was an Eagle & after the firing. I will say this: I do think that every band member should get equal pay. I definitely wouldn't work in a band where I'm making a lot less than the two most powerful men in the band (Henley & Frey).

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I'm sorry to hear about your financial difficulties, Tony.

I know it's old-fashioned, but have you thought about checking the book out of the library?

Sorry to hear about your troubles, TT.

My thing about Felder's pay is that I fully believe Glenn and Don deserved more pay than the other guys. They were the founders, they were the principal songwriters, and they asked Felder to join THEM. Let's be clear, Felder wasn't getting chump change here, he was paid fairly, along with Joe and Tim. But to expect the same amount of money, as say, Glenn was getting, is crazy to me. Glenn was the leader, arranger, songwriter, and along with Henley really were the ones who were most important to the band. Glenn even more so, to me at least. If Felder was truly unhappy with his pay, and not just because of a comparison to the "gods" salary, he could have said something without the unnecessary comparison. The way I understand it, he poked at them and whined about it for quite some time instead of taking the hint that he should take it or leave it. Instead, he wanted everyone paid the same and that is just not right IMO nor was it ever going to fly with GF/DH. As Glenn said in HOTE, he wasn't going to reform unless he and Henley made more money, which they should and did. Felder wasn't a starving musician, by any stretch. If he feels he was THAT important to the band, more power to him but I and certainly Frey and Henley didn't see it that way.

Was Felder's contributions worthy of pay? Of course! He certainly made his mark on their records. Was Felder (or Bernie, Randy, Tim, and Joe for that matter) as important to the band as Frey or Henley? No, IMO.

ITA with everything you wrote, Austin. And, not only that, but Bernie, Randy, and even Felder himself, have all said as much. Back in the day, while Bernie was off surfing, etc. and Randy and Felder were busy raising their families, Glenn and Don were living the Eagles 24/7. This is not a criticism, but merely stating fact. I also am not trying undervalue the contributions that all the band members made. But, it seems appropriate that the ones primarily responsible for most of the band's success would be compensated for their efforts. Felder is the only band member that has ever gone on record as being dissatisfied with the financial arrangements in the band. Throughout his book and subsequent promotional interviews, even though he often acknowledged Glenn's and Don's contributions to the band, he always seemed to overestimate his own.

Agreed, Dreamer!