Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
Yes, I missed the context of your post, sorry about that.
I agree that most fans during the pre-Wiki/pre-google era probably didn’t care about line-up changes, if they were aware of them at all. Just seeing Henley, Frey and Walsh (the most recognizable members from the 80s) was probably enough for excited fans during HFO, especially.
For the record, I don’t believe losing Glenn is equivalent to losing the other 3. I recognize and appreciate the impact of Glenn’s role in the band. I’ve said it before that the band isn’t the same without him and never will be.
However I do take issue with the notion that the loss of Glenn completely wrecks the legitimacy and/or authenticity of the band, as if that authenticity had been intact all along. And therefore fans who have seen or plan to see a Glenn-less “inauthentic” Eagles are different from those who saw a less than authentic version of the band with Glenn.
The band may have churned along just fine without the other 3 but that doesn’t transform the Final 4 line-up into something it is not. The fact is that line-up does not reflect the version that recorded most of the songs on the typical setlist. So I don’t see that as a valid argument for why its wrong for fans to go see the current line-up (and I’m not saying it’s you necessarily making all these claims, I’m speaking generally about what I’ve come across on this board).
Finally, this generation of music-lovers is the most informed ever in the era of popular music, thanks to the internet and social media, which wasn’t around in the past to gauge how fans felt about the absence of some band members. Interesting that in the current backlash, the most common criticism seems to be that Henley is now the only original member. At any rate, I suspect there were many fans who missed Felder over the last couple of decades, but they attended and enjoyed the concerts anyway. And now, many of us will miss Glenn and regret his absence, but as last summer showed from concert attendance, reviews and social media, fans still attended and managed to enjoy the concerts, thanks to Don H, Joe and Timothy, plus Vince and Deacon, who are also very talented and have much to offer.
If you think the loss of the founding member and band leader doesn't take away any remaining authenticity, then there is no point trying to convince you otherwise. Your view & those who agee with you is that this is just another lineup change & is no big deal. As is stated above, why not go & see Henley, Walsh & Schmit sing their Eagles songs. What does it matter who sings the 'other' songs.
That's what is being said, regardless of how many times people say they 'miss' Glenn. They are saying he didn't matter. They are saying he was replaceable.
He wasn't & he isn't.
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YoungEaglesFan
FP- would this mean in your opinion that a hypothetical lineup of Don and Glenn with backing musicians would be more authentic than a hypothetical lineup of Don, Bernie, Randy, Timothy, Felder, and Walsh?
Well, that is a difficult question.
If I'm being brutal, I guess the second option could be regarded as authentic, just as the Genesis lineup of Collins/Banks/Rutherford is. My problem with it is that for me the Eagles require BOTH Frey & Henley to be authentic, not just one of them.
But if Don & Glenn had played some shows with backing musicians & called themselves 'Eagles' then I guess I would have been as entitled as anyone who approves of the current situation to see that as authentic too, again, as long as they were both involved. So if you can call Queen with only May & Taylor authentic, you could have called the Eagles with only Frey & Henley authentic. As it never happened, nothing more can be said.
Edit: Sorry YEF. I know you saw my previous response to Delilah whiich I deleted & reworded.
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freypower
Once again, Led Zeppelin DID NOT REFORM. They played a couple of shows, including those you mention. They never reformed on a full time basis. They never toured.
I think you have hoist yourself with your own petard by your comments about John Bonham. You are absolutely right; he was so important to Led Zeppelin that they disbanded.
Neither Bon Scott, Brian Johnson or Glenn Frey, apparently, were as important to AC/DC or the Eagles as John Bonham was to Led Zeppelin. And you may be OK with that, but I am not.
Oh, and your 'see I can do that too' and 'bash fest' comments are completely inappropriate. Unless some sort of block is placed on people llike me posting in threads like this, you can't just force us all to go away. That's up to Soda, I guess. The thread was started & people, including myself, responded. That is the way message boards work.
No that is absolutly not what I was saying.
You say that this was Glenn's band. If it was then ONLY GLENN would have said that if he died he would want the band to go on. If Glenn said I don't want the band to continue after my death then this tour would not be going on.
But since this is Glenn's band he may have left his wishes to only three other people. Don Henley, Irving Azoff and Cindy Frey. If those wishes were to stop the band then that's what would have happened. But it looks like he said I would like the band to continue playing these songs if I am not able to do myself
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
travlnman2
No that is absolutly not what I was saying.
What is inappropriate as that apprently we can not have an opinon otjer then this bad. You are coming off as saying I am better because I saw the EGles with Glenn. Also it feels like you guys are saying that the only ones who matrer is Glenn. That is a huge insult to everyone else to the band. Alsp its a huge insult to the Frey family as Cindy is most likely i charge of her husbands estate and does have a say if the Eagles can resume or not. Without her permisson I dont think this would be happening. Only Don, Irving and Cindy knew what Glenn may pr may not have wished for the band to do if he ided. He probably spoke in private what his wishes would be. It seems to me that those wishes maay have been that he wanted the band to continue. Because if Glenn said if I die I don’t want the band to co tinue brcause it was Glenn’s band. Only Glenn would have given the band permisso. To continue if he died
There is no point in continuing to engage with this. Once we get the ít's what Glenn would have wanted' stuff it's time to give up. For the last time, I DON'T CARE if he wanted them to continue (though I doubt it) or if Cindy gave permission. I DON'T CARE. They were wrong to continue.
As for your statement that I am implying I am 'better' because I saw the Eagles with Glenn, that is ludicrous, and you know it. The people who want to see them without him can do so if they wish. I can't stop them. But I don't have to just bow down & agree with them.
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
travlnman2
No that is absolutly not what I was saying.
You say that this was Glenn's band. If it was then ONLY GLENN would have said that if he died he would want the band to go on. If Glenn said I don't want the band to continue after my death then this tour would not be going on.
But since this is Glenn's band he may have left his wishes to only three other people. Don Henley, Irving Azoff and Cindy Frey. If those wishes were to stop the band then that's what would have happened. But it looks like he said I would like the band to continue playing these songs if I am not able to do myself
I see you edited your post to which I had replied, so now I will have to reply to the edited post.
I maintain that there is no evidence AT ALL that Glenn wanted the band to continue, or left any sort of statement. He was modest to a fault & downplayed his contributions to an absurd degree. That doesn't necessarily means he thought they should have continued. He had some pride. He knew they would be an empty shell without his contributions.
You think the opposite. You & those who agree with you conveniently beieve it's what he wanted. Well, if that's what you wish to think, go ahead. If it IS what he wanted, as I have said ad nauseam, then it's happened. BUT I THINK IT IS WRONG. I loved Glenn Frey. But I disagreed with many of his actions. If this is the final action of his with which I have to disagree, then so be it. My loyalty to his memory only goes so far.
I apologise now for apparently hijacking this thread & will leave it.
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freypower
I see you edited your post to which I had replied, so now I will have to reply to the edited post.
I maintain that there is no evidence AT ALL that Glenn wanted the band to continue, or left any sort of statement. He was modest to a fault & downplayed his contributions to an absurd degree. That doesn't necessarily means he thought they should have continued. He had some pride. He knew they would be an empty shell without his contributions.
You think the opposite. You & those who agree with you conveniently beieve it's what he wanted. Well, if that's what you wish to think, go ahead. If it IS what he wanted, as I have said ad nauseam, then it's happened. BUT I THINK IT IS WRONG. I loved Glenn Frey. But I disagreed with many of his actions. If this is the final action of his with which I have to disagree, then so be it. My loyalty to his memory only goes so far.
I apologise now for apparently hijacking this thread & will leave it.
Well I think it was what Glenn wanted because it WAS HIS BAND. Just like you said. Glenn was in charge of the band and the only way they could continue if he passed was if it was his. I say that because you say it WAS GLENNS band. Now if Glenn thought this was the best for HIS band. Then it is fine with me because as you said it was his band.
and you conviently leave out all the times bands have lost extreamly important members but still continued because it fits your agenda. You do it as well
I am done
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
travlnman2
I guess you casual forgot the reunions of the 80s and 90s. Funny how you leave that out.
John Bonham is the most legendary drummer ever. He is part of what made Zepplin grate. That is why they broke up after his death. He set the whole drum sound of the 1980s and is as important as Robert Plant and Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones. Saying that John Bonham was not an important member of Zepplin is an insult to him and Led Zeppelin
Can you imagine if AC/DC replaced Bon Scott? Oh wait...What I ment to say is how in the world can they replace Brian Johnson? No way in hell can they find someone other the Brian Johnson? Oh thats right because they have Axl “freaking” Rose singing his :censored: off.
See I can do that to
Wow TM. Where do I begin.
First off, stop with the "see I can do that too" business. It doesn't help anything.
Second, yes the 3 remaining members did do some one off get togethers but it wasn't Led Zeppelin, no matter the name. The one most LZ fans will recognize is from the Celebration Day video, the 02 reunion for Ahmet Ertegun. Forgetting to mention two other "get togethers"/one offs that didn't amount to much isn't because of some agenda. Let's get that straight too. I didn't put them in the same light as the 02.
The fact you think John Bonham is the most legendary drummer or best drummer is subjective. I won't argue that he wasn't great. But he wasn't on Plant's or Frey's level of importance to their bands. Eagles even moreso. Glenn was the leader of the band, along with Don but even Don would tell you it was Glenn's band. Glenn was so important to the Eagles that most people would still have went and seen them as long as Glenn and Don were there. They could have had the others replaced and people would still have gone. The band we call Eagles was Glenn Frey's heart and soul, and along with Don Henley, they were responsible for making it as big as it was. Tim or Randy, as much as we love them, didn't have that same level of importance to the band. They just didn't. As great as John Paul Jones and John Bonham were, they could never overshadow Plant and Page as a songwriting team and as bandleaders. Just the way it is.
Of course, the end result is greater than the individual parts, but not all of those parts were equal. There was a hierarchy to the Eagles, with Glenn and then Don at the very top. Those guys were the visionaries and the ones who were essential. As Glenn said in HOTE, it's like a sports team. You can't do it without the other guys but not everyone gets to touch the ball all of the time. It clocks it well.
You're right that AC/DC has went through singers. But the deal is, Angus was always the frontman in that band. That's who people want to see. The Young brothers did most of the writing, and those who write the songs, win. Also I feel again, not a straight comparison to Glenn's position in the Eagles. Not the same. And on a side note, I love Axl in GNR, but to me I'm always going to be a Brian fan. I loved Bon and I love Axl, but to me Back In Black is the pinnacle of AC/DC. I've seen AC/DC twice, and my eyes 99 percent of the time never leave Angus. He's the show. His guitar playing, antics, outfits, the tall riser, all of that. Angus.
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
travlnman2
Well I think it was what Glenn wanted because it WAS HIS BAND. Just like you said. Glenn was in charge of the band and the only way they could continue if he passed was if it was his. I say that because you say it WAS GLENNS band. Now if Glenn thought this was the best for HIS band. Then it is fine with me because as you said it was his band.
and you conviently leave out all the times bands have lost extreamly important members but still continued because it fits your agenda. You do it as well
I am done
Sorry, no.
He died. It didn't matter whether he wanted them to continue or not. He no longer had any say in it. Is that cynical? Yes. Has any one of the people involved actually SAID in WORDS that he wanted it to continue? If so, give me evidence.
You really think he wanted them out there without him leading the charge? I repeat; he was modest. But he was not THAT modest. You really think he wanted them to turn themselves into a parody of themselves?
I don't care about other bands who replaced important band members who had died, apart from Queen, who I just saw & believe proved my point. I am talking about Glenn Frey, the founder, leader, co lead singer & co lead songwriter of the Eagles, not just any departing band member like (e.g. David Knopfler from Dire Straits, or Peter Gabriel, believe it or not. I use examples close to my heart) & in my view he could not and should not have been replaced.
Did you not even read what I wrote? I wrote that it is irrelevant to me whether Glenn wanted the band to continue or not. I personally DIDN'T want it and I will never change my mind, whether he wanted it or not.
Now will you please acknowledge that that is my view. I do not have an 'agenda'. Nor should I have to constantly repeat what I have stated clearly enough. You disagree with me. Fine.
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freypower
Sorry, no.
He died. It didn't matter whether he wanted them to continue or not. He no longer had any say in it. Is that cynical? Yes. Has any one of the people involved actually SAID in WORDS that he wanted it to continue? If so, give me evidence.
You really think he wanted them out there without him leading the charge? I repeat; he was modest. But he was not THAT modest. You really think he wanted them to turn themselves into a parody of themselves?
I don't care about other bands who replaced important band members who had died, apart from Queen, who I just saw & believe proved my point. I am talking about Glenn Frey, the founder, leader, co lead singer & co lead songwriter of the Eagles, not just any departing band member like (e.g. David Knopfler from Dire Straits, or Peter Gabriel, believe it or not. I use examples close to my heart) & in my view he could not and should not have been replaced.
Did you not even read what I wrote? I wrote that it is irrelevant to me whether Glenn wanted the band to continue or not. I personally DIDN'T want it and I will never change my mind, whether he wanted it or not.
Now will you please acknowledge that that is my view. I do not have an 'agenda'. Nor should I have to constantly repeat what I have stated clearly enough. You disagree with me. Fine.
Sorry if I upset you. didn't mean for that to happen
Re: Looks like The Band is on a full fledged tour next year!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UndertheWire
I feel sorry for anyone who didn't see the group in their original form, and that includes me.
It looks like 2018 will be very busy and fits with an observation by Marc Eliot (in the article he wrote immediately after Glenn died) that Don Henley had said he would have liked to tour a lot more. I've also seen something about Joe finding life easier when he was touring (this may have been in his dark days). Obviously, they could all tour as solo artists but they've always said that that's a lot harder than being part of a band where you share leads.
I don't see the suggestion of seeing a tribute band as disrespectful. I liked being able to hear the songs up close in a smaller venue. Of course, I'd have preferred to see the real deal under similar conditions but it compared quite favourably with sitting far away in a large venue.
Thank you, UTW. I didn’t intend for my suggestion about tribute bands to be disrespectful. I meant that sincerely and have personally very much enjoyed seeing several excellent tribute bands in the past. However, admittedly, I don’t think it’s any secret that I have very little respect for the decision to continue the band without Glenn. As the old saying goes, to get respect, you have to earn it and the direction the band has taken in the last year or so has not done that for me. So, for those who feel differently, I guess we have to agree to disagree about this. As I stated earlier though, I do agree with others that this thread is rather unnecessary and redundant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah
Yes, I missed the context of your post, sorry about that.
I agree that most fans during the pre-Wiki/pre-google era probably didn’t care about line-up changes, if they were aware of them at all. Just seeing Henley, Frey and Walsh (the most recognizable members from the 80s) was probably enough for excited fans during HFO, especially.
For the record, I don’t believe losing Glenn is equivalent to losing the other 3. I recognize and appreciate the impact of Glenn’s role in the band. I’ve said it before that the band isn’t the same without him and never will be.
However I do take issue with the notion that the loss of Glenn completely wrecks the legitimacy and/or authenticity of the band, as if that authenticity had been intact all along. And therefore fans who have seen or plan to see a Glenn-less “inauthentic” Eagles are different from those who saw a less than authentic version of the band with Glenn.
The band may have churned along just fine without the other 3 but that doesn’t transform the Final 4 line-up into something it is not. The fact is that line-up does not reflect the version that recorded most of the songs on the typical setlist. So I don’t see that as a valid argument for why its wrong for fans to go see the current line-up (and I’m not saying it’s you necessarily making all these claims, I’m speaking generally about what I’ve come across on this board).
Finally, this generation of music-lovers is the most informed ever in the era of popular music, thanks to the internet and social media, which wasn’t around in the past to gauge how fans felt about the absence of some band members. Interesting that in the current backlash, the most common criticism seems to be that Henley is now the only original member. At any rate, I suspect there were many fans who missed Felder over the last couple of decades, but they attended and enjoyed the concerts anyway. And now, many of us will miss Glenn and regret his absence, but as last summer showed from concert attendance, reviews and social media, fans still attended and managed to enjoy the concerts, thanks to Don H, Joe and Timothy, plus Vince and Deacon, who are also very talented and have much to offer.
And Delilah – Your post is very thoughtful and I agree with you that the band was no longer the authentic band that recorded the first four albums the moment Bernie left. But, almost every successful rock band undergoes personnel changes for all kinds of reasons. So even though the original recording lineup may have been missed, up until 2015, Take It to the Limit was the only song in the band’s live show that was not performed by the original singer. So, to me, they were pretty successful maintaining their authenticity. I believe they also remained legitimate as long as both Don and Glenn were in the band since they were the two who wrote, sang, and performed most of the band’s hit songs. So, now with ½ of that duo gone, this is no longer the case and I don’t believe they remain authentic or legitimate. So, as noted above, IMHO, it is wrong for the band to continue without Glenn. Obviously, not everyone shares my view and I don't believe it is wrong for them to go see the current line-up if they so desire. But, I also don't think it's wrong if I do not want to see them.
