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Thread: Fleetwood Mac

  1. #1131
    Border Desperado longtimeeaglesfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Quote Originally Posted by Freypower View Post
    And there is no 'best' alternative to Glenn Frey, and any replacement in this case is ALSO less than what they had and lost. It is insulting to suggest that it is preferable to the firing of somebody.

    I am in such complete disagreement with you on everything else that I will leave it there.
    I agree that any replacement of Glenn is less than what they had and what they lost - but since they couldn't continue to tour with him, and they opted to continue to tour, they picked who they considered would best fill his role. I am sure they would have preferred him to still be with them so that no replacement was necessary. I don't see why that is more insulting to say that is better than if they kicked him out and replaced him.

    I often see in threads that you say you will either leave it there or have nothing more to say - but then you do. Just an observation - not a criticism.

    Sorry if I got off topic but the question was brought up how fans would react to the FM situation in comparison to the Eagles and I just stated what I thought - not meant to rile the ire of anybody.

  2. #1132
    Moderator Ive always been a dreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    The comparisons between the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac are inevitable. There are some obvious similarities in that both bands will end having replaced an essential member, even though the circumstances are different.

    However, I believe there is a totally different dynamic in the two bands' fanbases. I think FM fans are overall younger and much more volitile - there is a lot more drama in their fandom. So, as Soda said, right now there is a huge outrage going on. It'll be very interesting to follow this to see how it all shakes out. I. obviously don't know, but my gut tells me that when it's all said and done, the FM fans will turnout for these shows. I just think we have entered an era where authenticity and legitimacy are not as important to fans as they once were. I guess today's fans have become accustomed to substitutions and are much more accepting of them.

    One other comment I have is about the remarks about Irving. I think Irving is doing what he is supposed to do for his bands - he is all about making money. Even though I don't support everything he has done/does, I don't believe he is evil. I think that's a pretty inflammatory accusation. I personally reserve the word for people such as mass murderers and terrorists - people who gleefully harm innocent people. Irving is obviously not that - he is providing a service and giving the public what they want.

    "People don't run out of dreams: People just run out of time ..."
    Glenn Frey 11/06/1948 - 01/18/2016

  3. #1133
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Well, Fleetwood Mac is Fleetwood Mac with or without Lindsey.

    But the definitive Rumours 5 that we all love so much, that we were all looking forward to hearing one last time... that chain has been broken.

    This tour should have been a glorious victory lap where they ride into the sunset, the 5 Fireflies, making their fantastic music together right up until the end.

    Instead, we'll have Mike Campbell and Neil Something playing and singing songs other people wrote, unable to duplicate Lindsey's signature style and thus either dropping his songs or giving us pale imitations. Stevie will probably fill some of the space with solo songs which, while enjoyable, are not Mac. If they do Crowded House's "Don't Dream It's Over" like the "Eagles" do that Vince Gill tune, I think the fans will revolt.

    Instead of the tour being a victory lap, it'll be an inglorious series of lurches to a weary stagger across the finish line - and everyone winds up covered in mud.

    Heartbreaking.

    Stevie wrote this song for Lindsey in 1972, for them to sing as a duet - they were so in love and so in tune musically - these two people met in HIGH SCHOOL - it makes me so sad that this team has been destroyed!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEHcPUSZ5Iw[/ame]

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  4. #1134
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    I've also been mourning by listening to all the great Fleetwood Mac music featuring Lindsey, his brilliant guitar playing, and his harmonies with Stevie and Christine. I listened to the Stevie-penned "Firefles" with its lyrics about how none of them will ever leave the band, no matter how bad it gets, and oh my gosh, the irony, the cruel irony!

    There's a rough demo version of "Fireflies" which is a duet with Stevie and Lindsey (the final version is a Stevie lead). The vocals are not polished by any means and there are parts that are being worked out, but to hear Lindsey singing some of the lines in the light of what's happened.... I just keep replaying it and getting choked up. So sad. It's all so sad!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPhedT6lHzY[/ame]

    Don't you remember what you wrote, Stevie?


    No one ever leaves
    Everyone stays close 'til the fire fades

    ~~

    To survive, do it right
    You believe in the five
    To survive the distance
    Everyone fights
    And the fire-flies

    ~~

    Everyone stays
    And the fire never fades

    I have loved this band for over 20 years, which is nothing on some of you guys, but a freaking long time for me, longer than I've loved the Eagles. This is freaking hard. Not as hard as losing Glenn, of course, but freaking hard.

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  5. #1135
    Border Desperado longtimeeaglesfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Soda - I agree with what you have said above and thanks for posting those clips. Very relevant.

    Let me compare how I see the Eagles vs FM in one other way.

    The Eagles situation is similar to having one's mother die and after a year and a half a year of mourning, the father gets remarried to someone who has been close to the family. The children are upset because they only want to remember their parents as a couple - as it once was. The father should not get remarried no matter what and they won't accept this new woman into the family because no one can replace Mom - she was the glue that held the family together. Now they have to listen to other people say what a great couple they make and how happy they look together, etc. and it is upsetting.

    The FM situation is like you are getting ready to go on a summer vacation with your parents once last time before you leave the home. Then, before that happens, your father kicks your mother out, files for divorce and then shacks up with one of your parent's close friends. Then he tells you this year's vacation is going to be just great! The children are upset because the father destroyed the family and ruined their last chance for this trip down holiday road.

    In my opinion it is much easier to understand and accept the position of the father in the first situation, therefore I don't think it is insulting to suggest the Eagles situation is more palatable. Not knowing all the details in the FM situation, I am however assuming the Lindsey didn't do something so egregious that he deserved being fired.

  6. #1136
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeeaglesfan View Post
    Not knowing all the details in the FM situation, I am however assuming the Lindsey didn't do something so egregious that he deserved being fired.
    True, but since it was an argument that escalated it to a firing, I can't help but think two adults should be able to deal with hurtful words without resorting to such extreme measures. I mean, they are almost 70!!!

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  7. #1137
    Moderator Ive always been a dreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    ltef - I think some of the problem with these analogies you offer is that they are very much oversimplified. For example, in the case of the Eagles continuing after Glenn's death, I believe a lot of the outrage has to do with the age of the band. I believe if Glenn had died when the band was younger, then fans may have been somewhat more accepting of this. However, I don't want to keep beating a dead horse in this FM thread, but, when the band was at the twilight of their career, many of us feel they should have honored their word and not continued. There were many other more honorable options that they could have pursued if they had wanted to continue to perform. But, just as Lindsey said, there was one reason and one reason only - MONEY!

    "People don't run out of dreams: People just run out of time ..."
    Glenn Frey 11/06/1948 - 01/18/2016

  8. #1138
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    Question Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Dreamer Irving is evil because he has basically made Ticketmaster the ONLY ticketing Agency who rip off fans with ridiculous fees and allow scalpers to take all the good seats from true fans and lets the scalpers charge over 100% of their original prices.

    Here is a article
    http://variety.com/2018/biz/news/dep...ms-1202741073/


    People are forgetting that Fleetwood Mac has been through this before. It's not like anyone is about to die or anything. I belive that Lindsey will be back again sometime. It's not like the band is going to breakup "again"

  9. #1139
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Don't know if this has been posted. Not taking a side just posting it

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.73c637e5cafd


    Lindsey Buckingham, formerly of Fleetwood Mac: Rock’s biggest jerk or misunderstood genius?

    It’s rare for Fleetwood Mac — a rock band formed in 1967 — to garner headlines in 2018. Still, the band was in the news not once but twice in as many weeks. Monday’s news that Lindsey Buckingham reportedly has been fired shook the rock community, earning eulogies and angry quips on Twitter.

    There’s little question that the iconic band is losing a visionary musician (again) in Buckingham. But during a time when pop culture is reexamining its heroes, it’s important to remember that the guitarist and songwriter’s personal reputation is littered with allegations of controlling, belittling and even abusive behavior.

    Rock-and-roll is often steeped in mythology, so, like any stories about the genre, it comes down to whom you choose to believe: the camp that believes he’s a misunderstood genius or the camp that believes he’s rock-and-roll’s premier jerk.

    Many of the stories concerning Buckingham come from former romantic partners.

    Buckingham and fellow bandmember Stevie Nicks might be the most famous star-crossed lovers since Romeo and Juliet, only their story ends with them playing in the same rock band and singing songs about each other. The dissolution of their years-long relationship added creative fuel to the writing and recording of 1977’s “Rumours,” Fleetwood Mac’s most successful album.

    But tension existed between the two long before the breakup. The young lovers released a single, eponymous album as Buckingham Nicks two years before joining Fleetwood Mac. The couple appear nude on the album cover, something Nicks reportedly was highly uncomfortable with.

    The studio said it wanted a sexy cover, so Nicks “with her last hundred dollars bought a loose, filmy white blouse that exposed a little skin, figuring that would do it,” according to her biography, “Gold Dust Woman” by Stephen Davis.

    It wasn’t sexual enough for the photographer, who asked her to remove it and bare her breasts for the camera. Nicks protested, calling herself prude and saying her family wouldn’t approve of the image.

    The photographer pushed, and Buckingham eventually snapped, according to the book.

    “Don’t be paranoid,” Buckingham yelled. “Don’t be a [expletive] child. This is art!”

    Eventually, feeling “trapped” and “under pressure,” Nicks removed her shirt and bra for the shoot. “She looked like someone else,” Davis wrote. “She also looked tense.”

    Nicks felt “mortified” by the cover, particularly when it hit shelves in 1973 and earned the disapproval of her father. She almost quit music at the age of 25.

    “From the beginning, Lindsey was very controlling and very possessive,” Nicks said, according to the biography.

    Things didn’t improve after their breakup. Buckingham wrote “Go Your Own Way” in 1976 about Nicks, even though Nicks had to help perform the song. The lyrics are full of vitriol, from the bluntly cruel (“Loving you isn’t the right thing to do”) to the character-questioning (“Packing up, shacking up’s all you wanna do”). Nicks was, of course, insulted.

    “I very, very much resented him telling the world that ‘packing up, shacking up’ with different men was all I wanted to do,” Nicks told Rolling Stone. “He knew it wasn’t true. It was just an angry thing that he said. Every time those words would come out onstage, I wanted to go over and kill him. He knew it, so he really pushed my buttons through that. It was like, ‘I’ll make you suffer for leaving me.’”
    Things grew worse. During a 1980 tour for “Tusk,” Buckingham allegedly mocked Nicks onstage, tried to trip her and, at one point, attempted to kick her. Singer Christine McVie was furious. She found Buckingham after the show and hit him.

    “I think he’s the only person I ever, ever slapped,” McVie told Rolling Stone. “I actually might have chucked a glass of wine, too. I just didn’t think it was the way to treat a paying audience. I mean, aside from making a mockery of Stevie like that. Really unprofessional, over the top. Yes, she cried. She cried a lot.”

    He later also threw “a Les Paul [guitar] at Nicks’ head during the show,” McVie and Nicks told the magazine.

    Buckingham has claimed that he doesn’t remember the incidents.

    While that tension only continued growing, both Buckingham and Nicks have said that it fuels their creative output.

    “Relations with Lindsey are exactly as they have been since we broke up,” Nicks told Rolling Stone in 1981. “He and I will always be antagonizing to each other, and we will always do things that will irritate each other, and we really know how to push each other’s buttons. We know exactly what to say when we really want to throw a dagger in.”

    Much darker and more concerning are the stories Buckingham’s next serious girlfriend, Carol Ann Harris, shared in her tell-all memoir, “Storms: My Life with Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac.”

    In one, Buckingham, needing to urinate while being driven to a hotel, unzipped his pants and evacuated himself into his boot, “as our driver looked on in horror,” according to the book.

    In another, Harris hung out with the band’s crew members only to discover that a jealous Buckingham had ordered them not to talk to her. “And in their eyes I saw a sense of fear that I recognized — fear of Lindsey’s anger. Nobody wanted to be the target of Lindsey’s fury — and this I understood.”

    Throughout the book, Buckingham is shown doing mountains of cocaine and verbally and physically abusing Harris, which she described in great detail.

    In one instance, she wrote, he “raised his arm and hit me hard enough to knock me off the staircase into the wall.” In another, she wrote, he grabbed a fistful of her hair, got in a car and drove down the driveway, dragging her across the pavement.

    Eventually, Harris claimed, a doctor told her that she had to leave Buckingham for her own safety — so she did.

    As with any memoir, it’s difficult to assess the validity of these stories. They certainly contrast wildly with a 1984 Rolling Stone profile titled — and this is not a joke — “Lindsey Buckingham, Lonely Guy,” in which Buckingham talked about how much he wanted a “wonderful, sensitive, soul-mate girl.” This was during the “fairly barren” period after his relationships with Nicks and Harris ended.

    The profile painted Buckingham as a musical genius who spends most of his time in the studio, trying to “break down preconceptions about what pop music is” and “struggling to be original” — but also as someone who worried “visibly about being the good host.”

    Some problematic details cracked through in the piece, though.

    Take Buckingham’s comments on Harris: “At first, she was just another conquest.”

    And, even though in that very profile, Harris said Buckingham’s solo record about their failed relationship (“Go Insane”) made her “angry” and “sad” and was “upsetting,” the rocker said he doesn’t regret making it.

    ”I didn’t have too many second thoughts, mainly because it was either that or go to a shrink,” Buckingham told the magazine. ”I know that sounds a little flippant. I think it was something that had to be addressed. People who write things that mean something, usually they’re a little too personal for somebody else. That’s a risk that has to be taken.”

    The only thing that is certain is that Fleetwood Mac has always been a pressure cooker.

    To wit: Criticism has been levied not just against Buckingham but all the members of the band. Grammy-winning producer Ken Caillat, who worked on “Rumours,” once said in an interview that after the record was released, he and the crew felt like “survivors of the Titanic or something.”

    “You feel like you’re family, and you’re not a family. Fleetwood Mac was not generous ‘parents.’ They’re pretty selfish; so many people that were part of the family have since been discarded,” he said, adding, “They’re all so self-centered and egotistical that they don’t think about anyone.”

    Buckingham’s recent departure from the band could be for a number of reasons — but it wouldn’t surprise anyone if that pressure cooker finally exploded.

    Again

  10. #1140
    Border Desperado longtimeeaglesfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fleetwood Mac

    Quote Originally Posted by Ive always been a dreamer View Post
    ltef - I think some of the problem with these analogies you offer is that they are very much oversimplified. For example, in the case of the Eagles continuing after Glenn's death, I believe a lot of the outrage has to do with the age of the band. I believe if Glenn had died when the band was younger, then fans may have been somewhat more accepting of this. However, I don't want to keep beating a dead horse in this FM thread, but, when the band was at the twilight of their career, many of us feel they should have honored their word and not continued. There were many other more honorable options that they could have pursued if they had wanted to continue to perform. But, just as Lindsey said, there was one reason and one reason only - MONEY!
    I agree. They are oversimplified/exaggerated to more clearly illustrate how I see the two situations differently. The realities are more complex and I can understand that others have a different perspective.

    Money is no doubt a motivator although maybe to a lesser extent with some of the players than others in terms of them needing the cash. That doesn't by itself make what either of them are doing "wrong" or less honorable. I believe money was a motivating factor for Glenn and was also a large part of why they chose Walmart to distribute LROOE. "They gave us the best chance to sell the most records and they're also going to pay us more than anybody else would pay us."

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