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Thread: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    I've seen very little on Glenn's relationships with women in any books.

    The recent Vanity Fair piece on Laurel Canyon made relationships seem very casual.
    JONI MITCHELL: As a girl, I was kind of allowed to be one of the boys. I was told that boys were able to be themselves around me. Somehow I was, in my youth, trusted by men. And I was able to be a catalyst in bringing interesting men together.
    GLENN FREY: In 1974, I moved to a place at the corner of Ridpath and Kirkwood in Laurel Canyon, and we had poker games every Monday night during football season. Notorious card games. Joni Mitchell got wind of those card games, and she always was a good hang, so she started coming every Monday night and playing cards with us. We'd watch football from six to nine and then play cards until the wee hours. They called our house the Kirkwood casino.
    Court and Spark was released in January 1974, so if "Help Me" was about Glenn, it seems they remained friendly.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    I've always loved Joni's songs musically, but I've never been interested in hearing about her love affairs. Pretty much everybody has them - real or imagined. So writing something about your love affair is a bit of waste of a good melody for me. Unless it's a genuine love song you sing to him/her to express your love and appreciation. That's different. But I've never been a fan of discographies as a collection of love affairs. And usually they tend to be written only from the writer's perspective: "I'm mature and perfect. He/she isn't."

    Having said that, when I read that Joni wrote songs about Glenn, I must confess I went "WHICH ONES???".
    Last edited by chaim; 03-16-2015 at 12:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    Quote Originally Posted by chaim View Post
    I've always loved Joni's songs musically, but I've never been interested in hearing about her love affairs. Pretty much everybody has them - real or imagined. So writing something about your love affair is a bit of waste of a good melody for me. Unless it's a genuine love song you sing to him/her to express your love and appreciation. That's different. But I've never been a fan of discographies as a collection of love affairs. And usually they tend to be written only from the writer's perspective: "I'm mature and perfect. He/she isn't."

    Having said that, when I read that Joni wrote songs about Glenn, I must confess I went "WHICH ONES???".
    Both Help Me & Car On A Hill are the opposite of that. So is Coyote from Hejira, although that's not about Glenn.

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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    Quote Originally Posted by Freypower View Post
    Both Help Me & Car On A Hill are the opposite of that. So is Coyote from Hejira, although that's not about Glenn.
    Maybe you're right. I read the lyric to Help Me quickly earlier in this thread. To me it looked like "why am I falling for this womanizer?", like the guy is beneath him.

    I adore a lot of Joni's stuff, but some of her lyrics have made me feel this way. I remember this one song on her fantastic Clouds album with a line that goes something like "I see that now it's Josephine who cannot be without you". I'm just not interested.

    But don't get me wrong, it's not just Joni Mitchell. IMO too many relationship songs by any artist tend to be too "you did this and you did that" to my taste. Either that, or it's "tell me what I did wrong and I say I didn't mean it". Either way I hear no real interest in the other person's perspective and in his/her possible problems.
    Last edited by chaim; 03-16-2015 at 05:56 PM.

  5. #65
    Border Desperado SilverAcidRayne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    OMG. that is my ultimate favorite Joni Mitchell song. i never knew that it makes so much more sense now.

    Mind Blown. For real.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    Quote Originally Posted by chaim View Post
    Maybe you're right. I read the lyric to Help Me quickly earlier in this thread. To me it looked like "why am I falling for this womanizer?", like the guy is beneath him.

    I adore a lot of Joni's stuff, but some of her lyrics have made me feel this way. I remember this one song on her fantastic Clouds album with a line that goes something like "I see that now it's Josefine who cannot be without you". I'm just not interested.

    But don't get me wrong, it's not just Joni Mitchell. IMO too many relationship songs by any artist tend to be too "you did this and you did that" to my taste. Either that, or it's "tell me what I did wrong and I say I didn't mean it". Either way I hear no real interest in the other person's perspective and possible problems.
    While I agree with you, Chaim, it's true of everyone and not just artists in song. I often feel like I'm being used in order for them to get revenge or something. I usually find myself looking at the radio and saying 'get over it'. Even before our guys made that a song!
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    Quote Originally Posted by VAisForEagleLovers View Post
    While I agree with you, Chaim, it's true of everyone and not just artists in song. I often feel like I'm being used in order for them to get revenge or something. I usually find myself looking at the radio and saying 'get over it'. Even before our guys made that a song!
    Maybe so. And maybe that's why there are really few artists that excite me lyrically. If they only see things from their persective, that's what they write about. Randy Newman and Ron Mael of Sparks are exceptions that come to mind. I adore their lyrics. Randy is the most empathic writer I've ever come across.
    Ironically enough, while Randy doesn't write love songs too often, there's at least one where he's frighteningly honest - a song called "I miss you" for his ex-wife! There's a line that is one of the most open and honest I've ever come across:
    "And it's a little bit cold for all those concerned, but I'd sell my soul and your souls for a song".
    In other words, "I'm sorry for getting a better kick out of writing a great song than from spending time with you" (if I got it right). It's cruel, but it's honest. He knows that it's wrong to his loved ones and he admits it.

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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    Very interesting going back and finding this thread as I had no idea Glenn and Joni dated. I'm not really a fan of Joni's but I do know a few songs of hers and "Help Me" is one, so that is very interesting finding out the song was written about Glenn. Confirms 70s Glenn was totally like a lot of my favorite fictional characters and real life crushes so I obviously have a type. LOL (On a side note you should've seen my Mom's reaction after I told her about them. LOL)

    However, I also know another interesting tidbit about the song "Help Me" and that it's a big part of the Disney movie "Tangled" that came out back in 2010. The director and animators of the movie wanted Rapunzel to have a Joni Mitchell style about her and singing style, so that's why she has the long blonde hair and the songs in the film have a late 60s/early 70s style. When Mandy Moore auditioned she didn't know this was what they were going for and she included singing Joni's "Help Me" as the song because she thought it'd fit Rapunzel getting out in the world finally and falling for the male love interest Flynn Rider.

    Now knowing that song is about Glenn and how the writers and Mandy used it to be about Rapunzel's thoughts about Flynn I couldn't help but laugh. I love "Tangled' and Flynn Rider has become one of my favorite Disney characters. Looking back now his personality in the movie is exactly how I've read of Glenn's in the 70s being very charming, mischievous, and confident. Not to mention the names rhyming. LOL Plus, it was a nice change the love interest not being a prince but a reformed thief. It's no wonder why I love Flynn.

    I have no idea if it's connected to Glenn but with the writers saying "Help Me" was an influence and now noticing these similarities just has me cracking up. This is one of my favorite Disney films from the current era and means I'll think of Glenn every time I rewatch.
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    Another 'movie' with a Glenn connection so!! I wonder did he bring Otis to see it and realise that the song (about him) was used in it? Wouldn't that be funny...? To be sitting in a seat with your kid watching a movie and suddenly to realise that the song in it was about..... YOU!!
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    Default Re: Glenn and Joni Mitchell

    I put this in the Remembering Glenn Frey" thread months ago, but I'll mention it here because it's about a Glenn/Joni co-write called "When a bad boy meets a bad girl in the night".

    Cameron Crowe did a podcast about Glenn for Rolling Stone. The bit on this song starts at 25:45.
    https://soundcloud.com/rollingstone/...ld-record-dead

    Rough transcription (in case the podcast goes away but listen if you can because Cameron catches the way Glenn spoke):

    There was one song that Glenn wrote with Joni Mitchell that neither of them ever recorded that I have on one of these tapes and it's such a good song, "When a bad boy meets a bad girl in the night" and it's just so great. It's classic Eagles kind of harmonies and it's really the crossroads between Glenn Frey and Joni Mitchell and when he did Jerry Maguire I had this little dream where I would get him to finally record this song. So there was a break in one of the takes and I sidled up to him and said "That's really great. You thrashed Tom Cruise like he was your dog." "Thanks, man". "By the way, you know the song 'When a bad boy meets a bad girl in the night", do you remember that song? And he looked at me liked I'd stolen a diary. I said "You were writing that when we were doing that article for Rolling Stone". "I don't even remember how that goes and I don't even know who would record that." I was just about to say "I actually do remember how it goes. I have..." but something interupted us...

    Then when asked if he'd have put the song in the movie
    Are you kidding me. I would have moved everything possible aside even if it was a blank frame. It's so good, you just want it.

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