Puzzling Lyrics

[sodascouts]

I don't think the citations that you've made say what you think they say.

I'll leave it at that and just 'share the food'.

The use of quotations in internet forums works a little differently than in an essay in my experience. It is used for emphasis or to frame a concept. Not the same as one would use in a classroom, but "generally" understood.

I read a lot of forums and I frequently see folks get upset over perceived tone etc... I've come to kind of wait and see if someone is condescending actually or if it just appears that way... while I'm evaluating, I assume the best.

So, honestly, the 'hair' comments you made... what do you really think as you read back through it... do you still think that it is 'physically difficult' (paraphrasing probably)....

food for thought!

If you read the discussion about the hair comments, you'll see that I actually listened to people who disagreed and didn't call into question the validity of their opinion or project negative motives onto them. I even tried to understand where they were coming from.

I guess that's where you and I differ.

[bernie's bender]

If you read the discussion about the hair comments, you'll see that I actually listened to people who disagreed and didn't call into question the validity of their opinion or project negative motives onto them. I even tried to understand where they were coming from.

I guess that's where you and I differ.

you don't think I'm listening?

I'm just not buying.

[Fan_For_Life]

It is my understanding that serious lyricists don't add words just to fill a spot in a verse. Except for words such as baby or something simple like that.

[sodascouts]

I agree, FFL. And here's another lyric I'm curious about. It has the extra complication of being different from another version:

Song: Doolin-Dalton
Lyrics: 'Til your shadow sets you free

Now, the context is:
Better keep on movin', Doolin-Dalton
'Til your shadow sets you free
If you're fast, and if you're lucky
You will never see that hangin' tree
(full song lyrics here)

But when JD Souther, a co-writer, sings the line he says:
"'Til your killers set you free"

So, do you think "shadow" is just a synonym for "killer" in the sense that the law/bounty hunter is "shadowing" them and will eventually kill them? Or is there an extra nuance in the changed word? I'd love to hear some thoughts on it, as I think it's an intriguing line. There are a couple other differences, too, which we can also talk about - for instance, JD says "runnin'" instead of "movin'" in the above context.

[sodascouts]

BTW, if you'd like to hear JD's rendition, it's on YouTube:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0-24WWc3tQ[/ame]

[bernie's bender]

I agree, FFL. And here's another lyric I'm curious about. It has the extra complication of being different from another version:

Song: Doolin-Dalton
Lyrics: 'Til your shadow sets you free

Now, the context is:
Better keep on movin', Doolin-Dalton
'Til your shadow sets you free
If you're fast, and if you're lucky
You will never see that hangin' tree
(full song lyrics here)

But when JD Souther, a co-writer, sings the line he says:
"'Til your killers set you free"

So, do you think "shadow" is just a synonym for "killer" in the sense that the law/bounty hunter is "shadowing" them and will eventually kill them? Or is there an extra nuance in the changed word? I'd love to hear some thoughts on it, as I think it's an intriguing line. There are a couple other differences, too, which we can also talk about - for instance, JD says "runnin'" instead of "movin'" in the above context.

I'd bet that they were trying to 'soften' it by using shadow instead of killer.

the additional benefit is that the harmony sounds better with the 'Aa' and the 'Oh' than 'ih'... their sound has a lot to do with soaring harmonies and ohhs and aahs are almost a trademark for them (the way they do them)

They were shooting for commercial hits.. and using words like "killer" were probably thought through and they probablys sought something softer.

the 'movin' line... same thing. oooh... is so much more 'eagley'....

if we listen to other 'runnin' songs like 'it keeps you runnin' or mtb's 'runnin like the wind' the first relies on a very measured set of beats in the chorus and kind of a barrelhouse piano approach on the verses... the song kind of sounds disjointed and while it is memorable, it isn't that smooth so cal high harmony type thing.... the MTB song is a really good song... but again, that soft U sound is tough to sing harmony on.

JD was always the lone wolf and I think he wanted a harder edge in his performances and in his persona... so, I think he was attracted to more stark and violent imagery... which made his audience smaller, but highly devoted... The Eagles are kind of Sam Elliot westerns and JD more of the "No country for old men" style.. both are great, but different kinds of aims...

I love both versions. Oh, and I think you are exactly right on your 'shadow' idea.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Whenever I analyze lyrics, I usually intend to think of them in the broadest possible sense to allow for just about any interpretation that someone wants to apply to them. What one person takes from them may be very different from someone else. There usually isn't a right or wrong answer, which is why many good lyrics are ambiguious. These Doolin'-Dalton lyrics are no exception. I see the "shadow" as being whatever may be pursuing or chasing them, whether it be physical or mental. The implication here being that they must keep moving (or running or changing) to set themselves free of their physical pursuers and/or their internal demons.

[bernie's bender]

that makes sense... but, the Doolin's were historical figures, right? I mean, what they wrote about in the song was based in actual fact. Most of the songs on that record had ties to events that actually took place and were in books about the west...

while I'm sure the eagles and JD took artistic license with trying to grasp the internal machinations of the gang member's psyches.. they (the gang) were all real people. I've had several friends who did not know that about this record... it was truly a concept album a la Sgt Peppers or Tommy.

[sodascouts]

I'd bet that they were trying to 'soften' it by using shadow instead of killer.

I understand. Even in 2003, under pressure from the record company, Lindsey Buckingham had to change the lyrics to "Peacekeeper" from "Take no prisoners, only kill" to "Take no prisoners, break their will" in order to make the song more palatable as a single. Unfortunately, the concession made the lyrics no longer effective, IMHO.

There usually isn't a right or wrong answer

Exactly - we gotta keep an open mind to all viewpoints.

I see the "shadow" as being whatever may be pursuing or chasing them, whether it be physical or mental. The implication here being that they must keep moving (or running or changing) to set themselves free of their physical pursuers and/or their internal demons.

I did initially consider the possibility that the "shadow" was also an internal demon that led to the kind of self-sabotage we see as a theme in "Desperado," but that didn't seem to work with the "set you free" part.... it seems they would be set free FROM their internal demons, not be set free BY them... unless the phrase is ironic. Then I can see it working. Interesting!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well, soda – I see what you are saying here, but I think the same would also apply to the physical “shadow”. Whether you say "by" or "from", I don’t think it is likely that their pursuers are going to them free, so I do think there is a bit of irony involved here. That’s why turned it around and said that they have “to set themselves free of their physical pursuers and/or their internal demons”.