Kanye West

[EagleLady]

Um, Huh?

[bernie's bender]

Um, Huh?

to use the rapper vernacular... we're getting played.

[sodascouts]

I understand what you're saying, BB. You're not the first to argue it's all a big set up. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If there's deceit involved, it's on their head, not mine. When I see a person act like a jerk - yes, I get angered. I'm not going to go "Oh well, it was probably just an act, it's all good!"

None of us want to get "played," but I guess we have to make a choice - do we react to what we see, or do we treat it all with cynicism and not allow ourselves to be engaged? What if we're wrong? I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt. Does that mean that I'm more easily misled by those that are dishonest? Certainly, but that's acceptable to me because I don't want to harden my heart against those who are genuine.

[bernie's bender]

I would never claim first as to concluding that it was a cynical act by the viacom folks.

I don't disagree that a person's reaction is valid since it is theirs. But, coming to the conclusion that it was set up doesn't make me cynical. There are significant instances from the very folks who produced that show of doing this in the past.

I remember in the late 70's when decorum started to fade at awards shows... people started showing up with jeans and tux jackets and being less formal. When guys like Steve Allen and Johnny Carson hosted awards shows they were formal. When we started having the Chris Rock's and the David Letterman's host these kinds of things... the show became 'meta' based. Dave's thing is to 'break the 4th wall' and joke with the viewer the way you would if you were sitting next to someone. He does the joke, but the joke is the joke about the joke and a wink and a nod to the viewer....

because of that lack of formality, the interruption is a natural part of the progression. I see it in meetings at work. Even in presentations, someone will interrupt. We all saw that even in congress we have 'talking back' during a speech. It isn't one guy behaving badly it is a commonly occurring thing.

That doesn't make it right or good... but there are so many examples (the shout down stuff at public meetings is a pretty obvious one.) But it is commonplace.

To me, being a good viewer, or a thoughtful person means considering the circumstances and context of an action and trying to make sense of it. That doesn't mean my conclusion will match everyone else's... but it will be considered and defensible.

Why would Kanye West do that? simply answering that he is a jackass isn't enough for me because it isn't an answer. He is a successful person. He makes money, he has influence, he has demonstrated the ability to promote and self promote. I don't know his music or who he is as a person... but, I have learned some of the relationships he has with folks on that show.

He may have acted impulsively, he has a history of that.. in each instance it paid off for him.

So, we may never know what really happened there... but, I don't think it is cynical to conclude that the scenario was the creation (or the 'look the other way this will be great theater') of a producer, manager or artist.

I'd imagine the outcry is that Taylor Swift was damaged by the event, I'm not sure anymore if that is really what the upset is about.

I remember a few years ago during the baseball playoffs there was a fight between the Yankees and the Red Sox on the field... it appeared (momentarily) that the Red Sox pitcher (known to be volatile) Pedro Martinez attacked and pushed an old and revered and widely loved coach Don Zimmer to the ground hurting him. The announcers went nuts and called for Martinez to be banned from baseball and fined and well, they were super angry.

By the next day, Zimmer gave a tearful apology for his actions and apologized specifically to Martinez for attacking him and thanked Pedro for protecting him when he lunged at him.

Our emotions often get the better of us when we feel before we think.

I didn't watch the initial broadcast of the show. I am not interested in that kind of thing... I've never thought of art as a competitive sport. I know some grammy and academy award voters and, well, it is not fair and never has been nor will it ever be (and maybe it can't be fair.)

I respect anyone who comes to an honest conclusion and holds their beliefs regardless of what they are... I come to my conclusions honestly and without cynicism, the data just seems to support that there has to more going on in this instance than has been considered.

[MikeA]

BB,

I LOVE IT! Makes sense. What was that guy's name...the Godfather...can't believe I can't pull his name out..Marlon Brando! Didn't he refuse to come to the awards and sent a Native American to "accept his award" and make a speech in protest of something?

Not quite the same as what you are putting forward as this was something obviously pushed by Brando himself, but it is in the same vane.