Glenn Frey and Pathos

[sodascouts]

Has anyone else noticed that several of Glenn's songs center around either tragic or downright pathetic people?

I was listening to "She Can't Let Go" and thinking just how tragic the title character is.

She can't let go, though she knows it's really over
She can't let go, though she knows he's really gone

She seems doomed to never be happy.

That's not the only one, either. "The Girl from Yesterday" comes to mind, although admittedly that's an Eagles song - but Glenn brought it to the table.

The light's on in the window... she's waiting by the phone
Talking to a memory that's never coming home

Wow. Could she be more pathetic?

Any other examples?

[Freypower]

This is an interesting topic & I think I will have a lot to say here. But off the top of my head I instantly thought I Did It For Your Love & After Hours. As I sit here I think of New Kid In Town & Tequila Sunrise.

There is a slight difference to me between 'pathos' & outright 'pathetic'. More sympathy for people can be discerned in the former. I do agree that the way the women in SCLG & TGFY cling to something that's gone could be described as 'pathetic' in a way.

[sodascouts]

There is a slight difference to me between 'pathos' & outright 'pathetic'. More sympathy for people can be discerned in the former.

I agree - you can be tragic and not be pathetic.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I guess I would have to take issue with the basic premise of your post here, Soda. I guess it boils down to the difference in the way we interpret the terms "tragic" or "pathetic". As FP says, I tend to have more empathy and compassion for what I consider pathos. However, for me, the term pathetic evokes connotations of someone who is grossly pitiful and inadequate, and much less sympathetic.

I guess I view the subjects in Glenn's songs as nothing more than someone struggling to get over a broken heart and, therefore, I am sympathetic towards them. We've all been through a breakup and, it hurts and takes time for us to mend. Where I draw the line is that it becomes pathetic and tragic when a person is unable to overcome these setbacks and it becomes a life-long cycle.

Since you feel the girl in 'She Can't Let Go' is doomed to unhappiness, I can see where you would view her as tragic or pathetic. However, I take a more positive view of the situation and choose to believe that she is experiencing a heartbreak from which she will eventually recover. These lines in the last verse give me hope that she'll be okay ...

"I've tried everything, but now there's only waiting
For the last dying embers to fade
Oh, she wants to be free ..."

[GlennLover]

I guess I view the subjects in Glenn's songs as nothing more than someone struggling to get over a broken heart and, therefore, I am sympathetic towards them. We've all been through a breakup and, it hurts and takes time for us to mend. Where I draw the line is that it becomes pathetic and tragic when a person is unable to overcome these setbacks and it becomes a life-long cycle.

Since you feel the girl in 'She Can't Let Go' is doomed to unhappiness, I can see where you would view her as tragic or pathetic. However, I take a more positive view of the situation and choose to believe that she is experiencing a heartbreak from which she will eventually recover. These lines in the last verse give me hope that she'll be okay ...

I agree with you, Dreamer. I remember hearing an interview where Glenn talked about SCLG & I took from it that the girl will get over her heartbreak. I believe that Glenn really evokes feelings of sympathy from the listener though.

[sodascouts]

Yeah, I agree with Dreamer too in that I think in order to be truly tragic one has to be unable to "get over it," so to speak. Here's what Glenn said about SCLG in an interview:

"There was somebody that I knew, a girl, who was going with a musician, and when they broke up, it's like she could never get away from his memory. His name would always come up at a party because it was the same circle of friends, or she couldn't turn on the radio without having to hear this song that she identified with him. And it was a kind of thing where she just couldn't quite ever say it was over. There were often late-night phone calls. She was kind of torn between....you know, she still couldn't give this guy up." (Jim Ladd Innerview 1982)

I guess I'm being a Negative Nancy, lol, but I assume that means she's a tragic figure who'll never be happy. However, if she can get over it - then yeah, she's no longer tragic - she's just suffering from temporary heartbreak.

I still think it's very arguable, however, that she IS a tragic figure, based on this statement as well as the lyrics themselves.... hence my basic premise. The part immediately after the lyrics Dreamer quoted, for instance, is:

...But when she's holding me
That's when I know
She can't let go

I think it's hard to call that optimistic. "BUT" is an important qualifier and it's there for a reason. "Oh, she wants to be thin, but when she's on a binge... that's when I know those pounds won't go."

There's nothing wrong with writing about tragic figures by the way. I'm not trying to criticize Glenn or anything. I'm just commenting on what I see as a trend.

[Freypower]

I have a few more thoughts on a couple of his 'pathos' songs & I will start with some criticism.

One of my favourite Frey songs is Let's Go Home. Here the situation unfortunately veers close to bathos, which is a type of false or overwrought sentimentality (or 'a sudden ludicrous descent from exalted to ordinary matters of style', 'excessive pathos'). The way he pleads with the woman having chased her all over town and confronted her in a restaurant to everyone's embarrassment.... it's uncomfortable to listen to. Where is his self-respect? I say it is a favourite song and it is, but I can't deny it has these elements.

Contrast this with the simple dignity and true pathos of I Did It For Your Love where he 'waited by the shore/just for a glimpse of you, nothing more'.

To me the climactic last verse of POMPOY (I look at you/your whole life stands before you/look at me & I'm running out of time) is full of pathos, a sense of loss, etc.

When this board was in its infancy we had an entire topic about his 'running out of time' songs: https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/...read.php?t=115

I actually use the word 'melancholy' to describe POMPOY & its sense of the transient nature of existence.

[sodascouts]

I hadn't thought of "Let's Go Home" but when you put it that away, FP, I have to say I agree! I had thought of "I Did It for Your Love" as well and, as I've said before, I too find that figure very tragic.

However, I get a totally different vibe from POMPOY.

For me, POMPOY is uplifting - he's "running out of time" but while he's here, he's going to treasure the one he loves and make the most of the journey, even if they're looking "for something [they] may never find." The music, the lyrics, and his heartfelt vocal build emotionally from verse to bridge to chorus and by the end, as you listen to those high notes sounding imperatively and triumphantly behind the comforting "part of me, part of you" repeated over and over, you're soaring. It takes what could be tragic and turns it a celebration - which one of the reasons why I love it and why, in hard times, it's been comforting to me. One of Glenn's best.

Of course, that's just my interpretation.

ETA: Wow, that IS an old thread, FP! "The way we were." lol

[Freypower]

I agree with that - I wasn't trying to say that the whole of POMPOY is infused with pathos, but it's the element of pathos that gives the song another dimension. This is why it can make me cry as well as making me feel good.

More pathos -the slow version of Working Man. I have really taken to this song; it's beautiful.

[GlennLover]

More pathos -the slow version of Working Man. I have really taken to this song; it's beautiful.

I love it too, FP. I do feel the pathos in that one.

I hear pathos in Most of Us Are Sad as well. Not one of my favorite songs because it seems so melancholy to me. I know Glenn doesn't sing it but, he wrote it.