"Play That Rock'n'Roll" Ep 3: Top 5 Sell-Outs of the 1980s

[RamboIV]

Hi folks!

I am pleased to announce that I've just completed Part 1 of Episode 3 of "Play That Rock'n'Roll", and I feel this is a good episode to help start a conversation about what happens to certain bands when the achieve (or are trying to achieve) pop success. Does pop success threaten artistic credibility / integrity? What does it actually mean to "sell out"? Well, I try to answer that in my latest video, "The Top 5 Sell-Outs of the 1980s".

Here's PART 01:
http://blip.tv/file/4941532

Part 2 should be online Monday evening. I'll be out of town today so I can't complete it.

You can check out the rest of the series on this page.

"Play That Rock'n'Roll" is going on hiatus after this. I'm returning to my original series "B-Movie Roll-Out" for the rest of the year, but I may revisit this series sometime over the Summer. Either way, feel free to comment on either the subject matter or the video production itself. All is very helpful to me -- especially if it is constructive criticism. Thanks!

[Freypower]

Genesis: yes, they had a lot of pop hits. But if you listen to those later albums there are still a lot of long, complex tracks - even on Invisible Touch (which album is not Genesis' Brothers In Arms,by the way - it isn't as good). I still think that We Can't Dance was a return to prog rock, title track or not.

(Aside: was Gabriel's Sledgehammer a sellout? Of course not. But Phil Collins' solo work got progressively more and more commercial).

At the risk of upsetting anyone I don't like Chicago either except for If You Leave Me Now; as I have only heard a handful of tracks by them I can't say for sure whether they sold out. They certainly started doing mainly ballads. What happened to them also happened to Foreigner, I think.

I only ever heard J.Geils' big hits so I can't comment on their earlier material but I get your point. I only ever heard La Grange by ZZ Top before the hits which I didn't like much. You make valid cases for both.

I await Part Two with interest; the way you've put it together & the clips you have used illustrate it very well. I was waiting for you to say how the Rolling Stones sold out; I have varying opinions on that.

[sodascouts]

Very well put-together! I love your great sense of humor and overall, this appears very professional.

Constructive criticism: Don't put so many clips of acts you aren't going to talk about in the opening bit. I thought for sure Bruce Springsteen and the Steve Miller band were going to be targets, but nope. Confusing. Also, I would probably make the tangential clips shorter (the Adam Sandler clip, the American Psycho clip, that kind of thing). They're cute but go on a bit too long. For instance, I would have edited the Sandler bit to just the tail end of the verse and one "LOVE STINKS" from the guest. Also, having the Abracadabra pop up every now and then was funny, but it would be even funnier if the cutaways from it were quicker.

Comments about content: This show's theme is typical of others in the same vein: the music deemed "sell-out" music is the music that I like, and the music acclaimed as "groundbreaking" is the music that I find boring. This is especially true regarding Genesis. I think I'm supposed to admire Gabriel's pretentious posturing in white makeup to Middle Eastern twanging, and scorn catchy tunes like "That's All" because they're not "Progressive." Well, I didn't get that memo. I like my music to be melodic. So sue me.

Looking forward to Part 2!

[RamboIV]

They certainly started doing mainly ballads. What happened to them also happened to Foreigner, I think.

...
I await Part Two with interest; the way you've put it together & the clips you have used illustrate it very well. I was waiting for you to say how the Rolling Stones sold out; I have varying opinions on that.

Foreigner is not on this list, but they were a VERY close contender. Very much an honorable mention. However, I really don't see the Stones as much of a sell-out, in fact I mention them as one of the bands that survived the decade intact. Start Me Up and Rock and a Hard Place are a change from their early work, but I've always seen them as a solid rock group. But frankly, I'm not nearly as well versed on the Stones as I should be.

Thanks for the comment!

Constructive criticism: Don't put so many clips of acts you aren't going to talk about in the opening bit. I thought for sure Bruce Springsteen and the Steve Miller band were going to be targets, but nope. Confusing. Also, I would probably make the tangential clips shorter (the Adam Sandler clip, the American Psycho clip, that kind of thing). They're cute but go on a bit too long. For instance, I would have edited the Sandler bit to just the tail end of the verse and one "LOVE STINKS" from the guest. Also, having the Abracadabra pop up every now and then was funny, but it would be even funnier if the cutaways from it were quicker.

THIS is extremely helpful. Improving my timing on the joke-clips I use is something I've been trying to get down to a science. And what pisses me off is that my original cut HAD the Adam Sandler thing cut off at the exact point you mentioned. I don't know why I went back to lengthen it. And on second watch, yeah I think you're right about Abracadabra too. In fact, I think I will go back and re-cut this review later tonight. I was rushing on this because I wanted to have part 1 done before I went out of town. So, again, thanks! This kind of stuff helps a lot!!!!

Now, in response to your first point - the "unrelated" clips. During the opening intro "Jump" clip, I didn't want to give away who exactly I would be listing, so I tried to make a brief compilation of who I thought people might expect - Cheap Trick, Bruce, Yes, Steve Miller, Van Halen, etc. This way my list would actually be a surprise, and I felt I should also address acts like Springsteen and Miller who I don't believe are sell-outs, but people tend to believe they are. So yeah, it is a little confusing, but its kinda meant to be.

...the music deemed "sell-out" music is the music that I like, and the music acclaimed as "groundbreaking" is the music that I find boring. This is especially true regarding Genesis. I think I'm supposed to admire Gabriel's pretentious posturing in white makeup to Middle Eastern twanging, and scorn catchy tunes like "That's All" because they're not "Progressive." Well, I didn't get that memo. I like my music to be melodic.

Here's the thing. I totally agree with you. In fact I really like the music of every group on this list (except Chicago), and I actually prefer the LATER work! I didn't make this list to hate on anybody (except Chicago), rather I just wanted to show how some popular groups have some rather strange origins. The only reason I singled out these artists for "selling out" is because their brand of commercialism is a little lazier and cheesier than that of other groups. Although I agree with you (and American Psycho) on Genesis, there is a HUGE controversy in the Genesis fan community on this issue so I felt I should include them on the list for that reason. Mostly, I just thought this would make for interesting discussion.

Now, as far as the final two groups go, I don't know that you will apply the same opinion.

Any guesses on who they are?

[sodascouts]

Judging from your opening, I'm going to guess that one of them is David Bowie. He became a lot less freaky and bizarre in the 80s. Of course, as we've established, that could be a red herring!

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Joe - I finally got around to watching the video, and I must say I found it to be really entertaining. I agree that the "red herring" approach is a good idea. And I also totally agree with you about Chicago. In fact, I agree with a lot of what you say in this video, but even when I don't agree with you, it is still entertaining, and that's the most important thing. Looking forward to Part II.

[sodascouts]

I love pretty ballads, so songs like Chicago's "You're the Inspiration" are right up my alley!

[RamboIV]

Well, folks, thanks so much for all the compliments and I apologize for the delay, but here is Part 2 of the Top 5 Sell-Outs of the 1980's. Enjoy!

http://blip.tv/file/4952391

[sodascouts]

Wow, I'm surprised you picked Heart. I like them both before and after, and I think the only thing that really changed (besides their look, which admittedly was over the top 80s) and the addition of synth. What's so wrong with a synth when it's used well? And it's definitely used well by Heart.

OK, time for a nice little detour into bands that lost their minds...

Hmm, I don't get why you showed a photo of Glenn Frey in the lead up to your list - he didn't go "experimental." And Don Johnson? WTH?

OH MY FREAKING GOSH YOU ARE DISSING FLEETWOOD MAC??? Sara - depressing? The title track - RETARDED???!!!!

ok a couple of Lindsey's songs on Tusk are kinda lame but not that one!

FYI: The clip you used of Lindsey and his Gilligan hat was from 1982, not 1980.

And as much as I love Lindsey, his solo career hardly overshadowed Fleetwood Mac's 80s hits like "Gypsy," "Hold Me," and "Little Lies." Most people can't even name one solo song of his. You could make an argument for Stevie, though, with her smashes "Leather and Lace," "Stand Back," "Talk to Me," etc. Lindsey's most memorable song from that period, "Holiday Road," earns your disdain despite how fun and catchy it is. BOO!!!

I think this infuriating segment deserves not one, not two, but THREE Stevie smacks.


>>>>>>

OK, I've calmed down and am ready to view the rest of the show.

There's no arguing with the lameness of Styx's Kilroy.

I wasn't aware of Dylan's Christmas album. Yikes. I'm not sure that falls into the "experimental" vein. Am I missing something here?

So, #1 is Starship, eh?

LOL you dug up their crap on the Star Wars Holiday Special? KUDOS. I own that special despite George Lucas' attempts to destroy every copy, and the only explanation for what we see here is HEAVY drug use.

But this is another group whose 80s hits I love - although I like some of their 70s stuff too. I have every song you made fun of on my iPod. There was a reason these songs were successful. They had something special about them that attracted the listener and made people want to buy the albums. That's not a bad thing. (And one can argue "It didn't sell well because it's not mainstream pop, but is instead great art that only the elite can appreciate" is often used as a cop-out too).

Seeing an aged Grace Slick bitterly excoriating her own work just makes me sad, frankly.

I do think you have a problem with 80s pop that is synth-heavy and done by people with ridiculously big hair. That's why you like people like Bruce Springsteen and REM instead (so do I, by the way - but I have a broad pallet).

Oh man, didn't need to see the blood fest from American Psycho, although the lead up was funny. Ick.

Good job, Joe! I was entertained. I can tell you worked long and hard on this.

PS Love the captions. They got the biggest laughs from me.

[RamboIV]

Wow, I'm surprised you picked Heart. I like them both before and after, and I think the only thing that really changed (besides their look, which admittedly was over the top 80s) and the addition of synth...

Hmm, I don't get why you showed a photo of Glenn Frey in the lead up to your list - he didn't go "experimental." And Don Johnson? WTH?

OH MY FREAKING GOSH YOU ARE DISSING FLEETWOOD MAC??? Sara - depressing? The title track - RETARDED???!!!!

ok a couple of Lindsey's songs on Tusk are kinda lame but not that one!

And as much as I love Lindsey, his solo career hardly overshadowed Fleetwood Mac's 80s hits like "Gypsy," "Hold Me," and "Little Lies." Most people can't even name one solo song of his. You could make an argument for Stevie, though, with her smashes "Leather and Lace," "Stand Back," "Talk to Me," etc. Lindsey's most memorable song from that period, "Holiday Road," earns your disdain despite how fun and catchy it is. BOO!!!

...

I wasn't aware of Dylan's Christmas album. Yikes. I'm not sure that falls into the "experimental" vein. Am I missing something here?

So, #1 is Starship, eh?

LOL you dug up their crap on the Star Wars Holiday Special? KUDOS. I own that special despite George Lucas' attempts to destroy every copy, and the only explanation for what we see here is HEAVY drug use.

I do think you have a problem with 80s pop that is synth-heavy and done by people with ridiculously big hair. That's why you like people like Bruce Springsteen and REM instead (so do I, by the way - but I have a broad pallet).

...

PS Love the captions. They got the biggest laughs from me.

Oh Nancy, I am SO happy the Fleetwood Mac bit got a rise out of you, and I see I owe quite a few explanations!!

1) Heart changed WAY more than just adding synthesizers and hairspray. Lyrically, they took a big step down, and GONE was Nancy's hard-edge '70s style guitar. Which is a shame. Synth-y ballads were a dime-a-dozen in the '80s, and frankly Heart's don't really stand out. That's not to say I don't like them. "Alone", "These Dreams", and "Never" are great fun! The point is, that Heart, by their own admission, underwent a SEVERE change in style in order to stay musically relevant. Their 1985 album saved their careers.

2) Frey / Johnson - Glenn Frey's look for the "Love the 21sr Century" video and promos is, frankly, insane. At least when it comes to what you would expect from "Take It Easy" / "Peaceful Easy Feeling" Glenn Frey. Again, it's just a visual acting as a red herring to keep people from guessing my list. I put Don Johnson because everybody knew him as an actor, and then he was a one-hit wonder. Probably not what some people expected from him. Again, not an important part of the video.

3) Not dissing Fleetwood Mac. I love Fleetwood Mac. Saw them in concert and would again in a heartbeat. HOWEVER, I'm not a fan of "Tusk" and I feel that album certainly qualifies as "experimental". Isn't "Sara" about the abortion that Stevie Nicks had? That's depressing to me. And frankly, I find ANY song that features music from a marching band to be "retarded". lol Even you admit that "Tusk" features a few not-quite-up-to-par songs!

4) Eh, you're probably right about Lindsey Buckingham's solo career. But Stevie Nicks I believe was a more powerful force in the '80s then the Mac. Now, regarding Holiday Road -- that bit was mostly a joke. It's not the worst song in the world, but it is silly. And fair game to be a bit of a punchline.

5) The Dylan Christmas album bit was also a joke, I was more commenting on the fact that in the 1980's, he became a born-again Christian and released like 4 GOSPEL albums. THAT is a change in style for Bob Dylan.

6) Holiday Special - Wow, I'm surprised you got that reference! Impressed too! Now, you couldn't pay me to sit through that whole thing, but I've seen bits and pieces and I knew I just had to mention that if I were talking about Jefferson Starship.

7) Starship - The only Starship song I truly don't like is Sara. But that's not the point. This list was not "bands that suck", it was a list about bands who changed from creating an original, authentic style of music to following the pop trends of the '80s. I LOVE '80s POP. The ONLY band on this list I honestly do like in any form is Chicago. And Peter Gabriel's Genesis. I pretty much love the rest. But the fact is that when these bands became pop acts, it was because they abandoned one form of music to follow other trends that were set by other bands.

Glad you like the captions and thanks for the comments! The reason I made this video was to stir up some discussion and I'm glad to see it worked!