Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

[Sebastian]

Fascinating thread, and I've learnt a lot from it.

In Freddie Mercury's defence, the whole idea about his alleged 'standards' is based on comments from other people, which have been taken out of context. He's been dead for over two decades so he can't clear it up, and during his lifetime there was no (that I know of) actual direct quote that can be verifiable via video, audio or even a printed interview.

The story, as far as I know, is that 'Liar' and 'Seven Seas of Rhye', and probably other songs, included bits and pieces from different people while the songs took shape. When it came to crediting, Freddie claimed them both on the basis that he'd come up with the germinal idea and had written the majority (or perhaps entirety) of lyrics, possibly including the melodies going with those lyrics. What that illustrated was that in that case they'd go for that.

Queen music had cases that weren't quite like that, and credits reflect so: Freddie allegedly wrote the lyrics of 'Is This the World We Created,' yet credits mention both him and Brian (the latter having been the one who came up with the chord progression). Same for 'Machines' (Brian wrote the lyrics, Roger still got credited since he co-wrote the music).

What credits do not count, though, are arrangements. That's why George Martin had no credit (or publishing royalties) for (co-)scoring string quartets, orchestral bits, etc., for The Beatles, that's why Walsh got no credit for his idea about the triads on 'Hotel California' and that's why, to mention Queen again, Freddie completely re-worked both 'Radio Ga Ga' and 'A Kind of Magic' but they were both solely credited to Roger.

At the end of the day, the Henley/Frey partnership seems to have worked, as a friend would say, more like a tennis game than football (soccer for Americans): instead of each person being in charge of one zone/area (as in, so and so wrote the first verse and so and so wrote the second verse), ideas came and went from one to the other, and the final product was a blend of what they'd both agreed on. Lennon/McCartney would work like that although there were also cases of 'jigsaw puzzle' writing such as 'We Can Work It Out' and 'A Day in the Life,' but even then there was some cross-pollination.

[chaim]

Fascinating thread, and I've learnt a lot from it.

In Freddie Mercury's defence, the whole idea about his alleged 'standards' is based on comments from other people, which have been taken out of context. He's been dead for over two decades so he can't clear it up, and during his lifetime there was no (that I know of) actual direct quote that can be verifiable via video, audio or even a printed interview.

The story, as far as I know, is that 'Liar' and 'Seven Seas of Rhye', and probably other songs, included bits and pieces from different people while the songs took shape. When it came to crediting, Freddie claimed them both on the basis that he'd come up with the germinal idea and had written the majority (or perhaps entirety) of lyrics, possibly including the melodies going with those lyrics. What that illustrated was that in that case they'd go for that.

Queen music had cases that weren't quite like that, and credits reflect so: Freddie allegedly wrote the lyrics of 'Is This the World We Created,' yet credits mention both him and Brian (the latter having been the one who came up with the chord progression). Same for 'Machines' (Brian wrote the lyrics, Roger still got credited since he co-wrote the music).

What credits do not count, though, are arrangements. That's why George Martin had no credit (or publishing royalties) for (co-)scoring string quartets, orchestral bits, etc., for The Beatles, that's why Walsh got no credit for his idea about the triads on 'Hotel California' and that's why, to mention Queen again, Freddie completely re-worked both 'Radio Ga Ga' and 'A Kind of Magic' but they were both solely credited to Roger.

At the end of the day, the Henley/Frey partnership seems to have worked, as a friend would say, more like a tennis game than football (soccer for Americans): instead of each person being in charge of one zone/area (as in, so and so wrote the first verse and so and so wrote the second verse), ideas came and went from one to the other, and the final product was a blend of what they'd both agreed on. Lennon/McCartney would work like that although there were also cases of 'jigsaw puzzle' writing such as 'We Can Work It Out' and 'A Day in the Life,' but even then there was some cross-pollination.

Hey, I've read tons of your cool posts about music on QueenZone. Never made the connection, that you're here here too. Cool!
Now that I see you on a forum I participate in more, I can ask you, who's the guy playing piano in your avatar?

[Sebastian]

It's me, about three and a half years ago, back when I weighed about a billion pounds less than now...

[sodascouts]

Not to get off topic, but you look quite distinguished in that avatar, Sebastian!

[Funk 50]

I thought I'd read here that Felder wrote the part of Hotel California that was stolen from Jethro Tull, a band the Eagles did support in the early seventies but I've gone back a few pages and read some interesting stuff. Particularly about Paul Simon.

Way back in the sixties, English folk singer, Martin Carthy got a surprise when, Paul Simon, I guy he'd regularly shared a stage with, in Folk clubs in England, recorded his version of Scarborough Fair. Simon didn't and doesn't acknowledge the, what some may call, theft.

Royalty-wise. I'm reminded of Men At Work's worldwide hit, Down Under. After going through court, the publishers are now required to pay a royalty to the estate of a dead musician, who composed the melody for the flute solo, even though the flute player didn't get a royalty for his contribution to the song. It's just blatant opportunistic legal profiteering.

Ian Anderson has mentioned the Hotel California rip-off, sorry I'm unfamiliar with which Tull song it is, but he's declined to sue so far. His estate may have different ideas when he dies.

I wonder if Glenn and Don could counter-sue Felder for offering them somebody else's tune porting to be original material. I suppose they'd have heard the Jethro Tull track too.

Actually, I think Glenn has gone on record as saying that all the time they supported Jethro Tull, they never saw Ian Anderson.

Cunning hey?

[thelastresort]

The Jethro Dull song is called We Used to Know. I've heard a radio interview with Anderson where he basically states he doesn't think there's much to it and congratulates the Eagles on its success. Of course at the time the Eagles toured with them, Felder was still an unknown bobbing in and out of session work with the likes of David Blue...

[thelastresort]

WUTK is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sJA_VF5c7U

I kind of here Hotel Cali in there, but not to the point where you'd call it a rip-off. The progression of the verse sounds like the intro to HC in a structural rather than musical sense, but that's really as close as you get. Of course, it wasn't until 4 years later that Felder penned the song, and unless he listened to them actively I doubt he'd remember exactly where he heard something similar (all the coke and booze wouldn't have helped either) if he did recognise it: HOTE states however that Felder would come up with 20 or 30 progressions at a time, so it is more likely just a 'progression' of progressions that led him to it.

[sodascouts]

Yeah, I give Felder the benefit of the doubt there. I don't think it's similar enough to be called a "rip off."

[Freypower]

I thought I'd read here that Felder wrote the part of Hotel California that was stolen from Jethro Tull, a band the Eagles did support in the early seventies but I've gone back a few pages and read some interesting stuff. Particularly about Paul Simon.

Way back in the sixties, English folk singer, Martin Carthy got a surprise when, Paul Simon, I guy he'd regularly shared a stage with, in Folk clubs in England, recorded his version of Scarborough Fair. Simon didn't and doesn't acknowledge the, what some may call, theft.

Royalty-wise. I'm reminded of Men At Work's worldwide hit, Down Under. After going through court, the publishers are now required to pay a royalty to the estate of a dead musician, who composed the melody for the flute solo, even though the flute player didn't get a royalty for his contribution to the song. It's just blatant opportunistic legal profiteering.

Ian Anderson has mentioned the Hotel California rip-off, sorry I'm unfamiliar with which Tull song it is, but he's declined to sue so far. His estate may have different ideas when he dies.

I wonder if Glenn and Don could counter-sue Felder for offering them somebody else's tune porting to be original material. I suppose they'd have heard the Jethro Tull track too.

Actually, I think Glenn has gone on record as saying that all the time they supported Jethro Tull, they never saw Ian Anderson.

Cunning hey?

The publishers of a well known Australian song called Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree claimed the flute melody was stolen from that song. They won the case. The man who plays the flute part, Greg Ham, committed suicide as a result. It was absolutely tragic.

[Funk 50]

The publishers of a well known Australian song called Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree claimed the flute melody was stolen from that song. They won the case. The man who plays the flute part, Greg Ham, committed suicide as a result. It was absolutely tragic.

A very sorry end to the tail Freypower. Just displays how a humble artist can be eaten alive by the business.