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Thread: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

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    Stuck on the Border WalshFan88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
    Just like you can always recognize Henley's writing, eh?
    I knew Take It Easy was co-written and it's pretty easy to tell which parts were Glenn's. And, yes, I can recognize Henley's writing as well. Two separate styles not anywhere similar. Henley's is photographic, Frey's is not.
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3067

    But I guess when you think about it, most of Frey's signature songs were co-written with at least one other person. So Take It Easy may be as good of an example as any of them. New Kid In Town was of course with JD Souther, Heartache Tonight with Bob Seger, etc etc etc. And songs like Peaceful Easy Feeling and Already Gone were all Jack Tempchin's writing.

    Agree to disagree I guess.
    I just want to point out that many of the songs that Don has written were co-written with at least one other person. I'm not that familiar with his solo material, but he didn't write any Eagles songs by himself.

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    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Indeed, there are no Eagles songs credited solely to Don Henley. However, there is one solo song credited solely to him: "A Month of Sundays." I believe that is the only one.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that - that's just the way he and Glenn work best - as collaborators.

    As for Glenn, he has written the following songs by himself: "Chug All Night," "Most of Us Are Sad," "Get You in the Mood," "No More Cloudy Days," "You Are Not Alone," "I Dreamed There Was No War," "All Those Lies", and "Agua Tranquilla." Did I miss anything?

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    Moderator Ive always been a dreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    Frey came up IMO with the concept of driving into LA, seeing the strip, etc. I think he came up with the concept of the song, but Don has a special way of laying out the lyrics to where it plays out like a movie in your head. He's a brilliant lyricist. EVERY Don Henley song has that to where you can visualize what's happening and it's like he's throwing snapshots out at you of what it's suppose to mean and you form your own interpretation of what it's about. Glenn's writing style is great as well but doesn't have that story/movie-playing-in-your-head aspect to it at all and those songs don't have that visual story to it like Henley's songs do.
    Austin, this is the part of your post that I take issue with the most. I agree with what you say about Don Henley’s brilliant songwriting, but I don’t agree that this talent is unique to him. If this were the case, then I guess you would argue that any cinematic lyrics in any Eagles song was written by Henley since the implication is that Glenn is incapable of this. You have said yourself before on this board that you aren’t that familiar with Don’s and Glenn’s solo work. Don certainly has some songs where the lyrics aren’t that impressive and don’t have that “story/movie-playing-in-your-head aspect” that you describe. On the other hand, Glenn has some solo songs that have wonderful visual imagery and storytelling. So, IMO, it is implausible to stereotype them like this. It is the combination of talent that the two men brought to the table that makes their songwriting partnership in the Eagles so special – or as has been often said said … ‘the sum greater than the parts’.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    At the end of the day, I don't care about the little details of who wrote what, ...
    I agree with this, but you are the one that has brought this up for discussion several times and characterize it as a Felder/Henley song, so it’s natural that other fans will respond. As we keep repeating over and over, none of us really knows exactly who wrote what, and the actual recollections of the songwriters may not even be totally reliable. I’ve never seen the information that Scarlet Sun referred to, but Henley and Frey have been fairly consistent over the years in everything I’ve ever read regarding their collaboration in writing the lyrics for the song. I wish I had some time to dig up some more old interviews, but I don’t. Here are the excerpts of their comments on the subject in the 2004 The Very Best of the Eagles liner notes, as well as, part of what Felder said on the matter in his Heaven and Hell book in 2007. His account doesn’t quite jive with Henley’s and Frey’s, so it’s no wonder there is such confusion about this …

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Frey and Don Henley The Very Best of the Eagles liner notes

    HOTEL CALIFORNIA

    GLENN: The song began as a demo tape, an instrumental by Don Felder. He'd been submitting tapes and song ideas to us since he'd joined the band, always instrumentals, since he didn't sing. But this particular demo, unlike many of the others, had room for singing. It immediately got our attention. The first working title, the name we gave it, was "Mexican Reggae."

    For us, "Hotel California" was definitely thinking and writing outside the box. We had never written any song like it before. Similar to "Desperado," we did not start out to make any sort of concept or theme album. But when we wrote "Life In The Fast Lane" and started working on "Hotel California" and "New Kid In Town" with J.D., we knew we were heading down a long and twisted corridor and just stayed with it. Songs from the dark side -- the Eagles take a look at the seamy underbelly of L.A. -- the flip side of fame and failure, love and money.

    "They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast" was a little Post-It back to Steely Dan. Apparently, Walter Becker's girlfriend loved the Eagles, and she played them all the time. I think it drove him nuts. So, the story goes that they were having a fight one day, and that was the genesis of the line, "turn up the Eagles, the neighbors are listening" in "Everything You Did," from Steely Dan's The Royal Scam album. During the writing of "Hotel California," we decided to volley. We just wanted to allude to Steely Dan rather than mentioning them outright, so "Dan" got changed to "knives," which is still, you know, a penile metaphor. Stabbing, thrusting, etc.

    Almost everybody in my business can write music, play guitar, play piano, create chord progressions, etc., but it's only when you add lyrics and melody and voices to these things that they take on an identity and become something beyond that sum of the individual parts. I remember that Henley and I were listening to the "Hotel California" demo tape together on an airplane, and we were talking about what we would write and how we wanted to be more cinematic. We wanted this song to open like an episode of The Twilight Zone -- just one shot after another.

    I remember De Niro in The Last Tycoon. He's got this scene, and he's talking to some other people in his office. He speaks to them: "The door opens...the camera is on a person's feet...he walks across the room...we pan up to the table... he picks up a pack of matches that says 'The Such-And-Such Club' on it... strikes a match and lights a cigarette...puts it out... goes over to the window... opens the shade... looks out... the moon is there... what does it mean? Nothing. It's just the movies." "Hotel California" is like that. We take this guy and make him like a character in The Magus, where every time he walks through a door there's a new version of reality. We wanted to write a song just like it was a movie. This guy is driving across the desert. He's tired. He's smokin'. Comes up over a hill, sees some lights, pulls in. First thing he sees is a really strange guy at the front door, welcoming him: "Come on in." Walks in, and then it becomes Fellini-esque -- strange women, effeminate men, shadowy corridors, disembodied voices, debauchery, illusion... Weirdness. So we thought, "Let's really take some chances. Let's try to write in a way that we've never written before." Steely Dan inspired us because of their lyrical bravery and willingness to go "out there." So, for us, "Hotel California" was about thinking and writing outside the box.

    DON: We were enamored with hotels. Hotels were a big part of our lives. The Beverly Hills Hotel had become something of a focal point -- literally and symbolically. I've always been interested in architecture and the language of architecture, and, at that time, I was particularly keen on the mission style of early California. I thought there was a certain mystery and romance about it. Then, there are all the great movies and plays in which hotels figure prominently, not only as a structure, but as a dramatic device. Films such as Grand Hotel, The Night Porter, and even Psycho -- motels count too. There are plays like Neil Simon's Plaza Suite and California Suite, which Glenn and I went to see while writing the song. We saw it as homework or research. We were looking for things that would stimulate us and give us ideas. Sometimes it was just driving around. We would still take trips out to the desert. At one point, Glenn and I rented a little red house up in Idlewild -- way up in the San Bernadino Mountains. We'd drive out there sometimes just to clear our heads, sleep on the floor in sleeping bags. We didn't have any furniture. We were just on the quest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felder – My Life in the Eagles (1974-2001) Heaven and Hell Page 172

    … Best of all, Glenn had a germ of an idea while he was listening to it. He was great at conceptualizing and was listening to a lot of Steely Dan at the time. “This could be about the fantasy of California,” he said. “I can see a guy driving down a desert highway at night in a convertible and seeing the lights of L.A. way off on the horizon.” We all knew the feeling; we’d all driven into LA from our respective homes and been overwhelmed by the awesome spectacle of the city, with its twinkling lights spread before us. Don snapped the image in his mind and took it from there, expanding it to the guy seeing a hotel in the distance and deciding to rest for the night. There, where he is served pink champagne under mirrored ceilings, a woman walks in. “It’s such a lovely place,” he muses with that uncanny gift of his, as he absentmindedly adds his smoldering cigarette butt to the dozen he already has lined up in front of him. “This could be heaven or this could be hell.”

    Don was very private about his lyrics. After he’d come up with a basic concept, he’d take it away and work on it secretly, and we wouldn’t hear the finished product until we were ready to record it in the studio. …
    Last edited by Ive always been a dreamer; 02-04-2012 at 04:42 PM.

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    Stuck on the Border WalshFan88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    I'm not saying Glenn is a bad songwriter at all and I fully realize they are a songwriting team. It's just that for me I can see which parts are who's and to me every Henley song I can picture in my head. I can't say that for Glenn's. It's not a knock on his songwriting or that every songwriter has to do this. But it is an identifiable trait of Don's that I recognize. Maybe others don't see the imagery. Music is a very personal experience. But even "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" plays out in my head. I can see the plane taxing down the runway in my head and the Molotov cocktail and all of that. Maybe everyone can't but it's just something I personally identify with Henley's writing. And not necessarily all lyrics or concept, but the way they are composed and "laid out".

    I realize most probably won't agree but I'm in no way saying Glenn is less of a songwriter than Don or anything like that. But they both have traits in their songwriting that I personally pick up on. Just like in the Beatles, I can tell who's parts are who's. Macca has a different writing style than Lennon, and so on. And that's what MAKES them such a great team because they are so blatantly different in style.

    But in no way am I slamming Glenn, FWIW.
    -Austin-
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    Border Rebel Scarlet Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
    Indeed, there are no Eagles songs credited solely to Don Henley. However, there is one solo song credited solely to him: "A Month of Sundays." I believe that is the only one.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that - that's just the way he and Glenn work best - as collaborators.

    As for Glenn, he has written the following songs by himself: "Chug All Night," "Most of Us Are Sad," "Get You in the Mood," "No More Cloudy Days," "You Are Not Alone," "I Dreamed There Was No War," "All Those Lies", and "Agua Tranquilla." Did I miss anything?
    Yes - Run Boy Run and my favorite of them all - Rebecca!

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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    I'm not saying Glenn is a bad songwriter at all and I fully realize they are a songwriting team. It's just that for me I can see which parts are who's and to me every Henley song I can picture in my head. I can't say that for Glenn's. It's not a knock on his songwriting or that every songwriter has to do this. But it is an identifiable trait of Don's that I recognize. Maybe others don't see the imagery. Music is a very personal experience. But even "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" plays out in my head. I can see the plane taxing down the runway in my head and the Molotov cocktail and all of that. Maybe everyone can't but it's just something I personally identify with Henley's writing. And not necessarily all lyrics or concept, but the way they are composed and "laid out".

    I realize most probably won't agree but I'm in no way saying Glenn is less of a songwriter than Don or anything like that. But they both have traits in their songwriting that I personally pick up on. Just like in the Beatles, I can tell who's parts are who's. Macca has a different writing style than Lennon, and so on. And that's what MAKES them such a great team because they are so blatantly different in style.

    But in no way am I slamming Glenn, FWIW.

    Everything you describe in ASWTDID (which, by the way, was written by Danny Kortchmar, not Don Henley) I can see in Smuggler's Blues. I can also see it in River Of Dreams. In fact I see everything you describe in the entire Strange Weather album. And I see it in Glenn's LROOE songs too, even though they may not be so obviously visual, and of course he didn't write a couple of them.

    In any case, songs can also be about emotions, not just storytelling, and in that respect some of Glenn's more 'emotional' songs are very effective.

    You may well believe that you know 'whose parts are whose'. I don't claim that knowledge. I just enjoy the wonderful songs the two of them came up with.

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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Sun View Post
    According to Glenn's own words from the In The Studio radio show which featured the debut album, all he wrote was the lyric "it's a girl my lord in a flatbed Ford slowing down to take a look at me." Jackson was so happy he gave Glenn 1/2 writing credit
    In my opinion that's two lines, not one line!

  9. #39
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Sun View Post
    Yes - Run Boy Run and my favorite of them all - Rebecca!
    lol! Well if we go back that far, Henley contributed a song or two to Shiloh!

    "Run Boy Run" - the sad tale of the accidental statutory rapist. Not Glenn's finest moment lyrically, but hey, it's catchy! "Rebecca" has its moments, but it's another tale where our hero is less than a sympathetic character, cheating on his woman. Anyone else have the feeling that Glenn was not a man that a woman could trust back in the day? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Freypower
    Everything you describe in ASWTDID (which, by the way, was written by Danny Kortchmar, not Don Henley) I can see in Smuggler's Blues. I can also see it in River Of Dreams. In fact I see everything you describe in the entire Strange Weather album. And I see it in Glenn's LROOE songs too, even though they may not be so obviously visual, and of course he didn't write a couple of them.
    I completely agree with you about the imagery, FP. Perhaps it doesn't speak to everyone, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88
    even "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" plays out in my head. I can see the plane taxing down the runway in my head and the Molotov cocktail and all of that. Maybe everyone can't but it's just something I personally identify with Henley's writing.
    And as FP pointed out, ASWTDID was written solely by Danny Kortchmar. Henley did not write any of those lyrics.

    This is the second time you have "personally identified" traits of a songwriter in lyrics that he didn't actually write. Perhaps it's time to accept that you have no more insight into who writes what than the rest of us.

    I like you, Austin, but sometimes you make the mistake of stating your opinions as if they were fact. It's part of growing up to accept your mistakes and learn from them. Let this be one of those times.

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

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    Stuck on the Border WalshFan88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

    I know it was written by someone else - that's my point. Other songwriters can do this too - not just one person. Meaning that I'm not just singling out Don or "picking on Glenn". But when comparing Don to Glenn, it's different to me. Maybe it's different for every person.

    Also I never said anything was fact - I'm doing what you and everyone else is doing - giving opinions. That's all they are and ever will be.

    I can see I'm getting nowhere in a hurry with this...sigh. Agree to disagree.
    Last edited by WalshFan88; 02-05-2012 at 01:11 AM.
    -Austin-
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    RIP Glenn Frey and Randy Meisner

    "So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key..."


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