Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

[sodascouts]

I know it was written by someone else - that's my point. Other songwriters can do this too - not just one person.

Please, Austin! You obviously did not know that those songs were written by others, and your point was quite the opposite.

Here is what you said earlier:

I can recognize Henley's writing as well. Two separate styles not anywhere similar. Henley's is photographic, Frey's is not.

And then, in a later post when you were questioned about this, you used ASWTDID as an example of Henley's "photographic" songwriting. To be specific, you said:

It's just that for me I can see which parts are who's and to me every Henley song I can picture in my head. I can't say that for Glenn's. It's not a knock on his songwriting or that every songwriter has to do this. But it is an identifiable trait of Don's that I recognize. Maybe others don't see the imagery. Music is a very personal experience. But even "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" plays out in my head. I can see the plane taxing down the runway in my head and the Molotov cocktail and all of that. Maybe everyone can't but it's just something I personally identify with Henley's writing. And not necessarily all lyrics or concept, but the way they are composed and "laid out".

Do you think we have such short memories that we won't recall you said this, and that it is exactly the opposite of your new "point" not only in this thread, but in others as well?

This may sound harsh, but I must say it. Stop the BS. You are insulting our intelligence and embarrassing yourself.

[WalshFan88]

You obviously don't understand what I was trying to say. I never said that song was written by Henley.

Maybe you should learn to be a bit kinder in your posts. Insulting your intelligence?! Please! And you say I'm condescending!? And that I state my opinions as fact?! If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. I know just as much as anyone else here. Don't try to one up me all the time or put me down, thanks.

[sodascouts]

You obviously don't understand what I was trying to say. I never said that song was written by Henley.

Maybe you should learn to be a bit kinder in your posts. Insulting your intelligence?! Please! And you say I'm condescending!? And that I state my opinions as fact?! If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. I know just as much as anyone else here. Don't try to one up me all the time or put me down, thanks.

Yes, my tone was harsh, but I was trying to knock some sense into you! I have no reason to put you down; I have nothing against you. In fact, I think as a rule you are a nice guy. However, when you do something like this, it has to be addressed.

As for your criticisms of me - well, perhaps I do sometimes come off as condescending. I try not to, but nobody's perfect. However, one thing I do not do is try to disavow earlier mistakes and pretend I never made them. When I am corrected, I admit that I was wrong and move on. I have to do that more often than I would like, lol, but I do it nonetheless.

But in your case, it's quite different. Anyone who can read can see what you really meant earlier, but you continue to bluster on. Well, I give up. If you wish to embarrass yourself further, feel free.

[WalshFan88]

You truly don't understand what I was trying to say. Honestly, if you are saying what you are, you don't get it. If I had the time I would try to write it again and try to write it in a way that you would get it, but I don't have the time nor the energy to waste on doing so.

No one is embarrassing themselves, so lets not try to put that on anyone.

[sodascouts]

So, moving on, then.

I've always wondered how much one has to contribute to get a songwriting credit, and who makes these decisions.

For instance, we know Joe helped work out guitar parts on "Hotel California", but he doesn't get a songwriting credit. Is it a mutual decision perhaps, between everyone involved?

Then, there's also an issue of name order. Who decides which name goes first on the written credits? Obviously Felder wasn't consulted when his name was kicked out of the front spot of "Hotel California" for the Hell Freezes Over credits, and the fact that he was no longer listed first upset him.

While some may argue that's a petty concern, it obviously means something to songwriters. Look at the big outcry from John Lennon's camp when Paul McCartney listed his name before Lennon's on some songs on one of his albums a few years ago. Yoko Ono even consulted a lawyer about whether or not she could sue to stop him from doing so.

It's a point of pride, perhaps, to have one's name listed first, even if everyone still gets the same amount of money. Thus, I think it'd safe to assume a statement was being made there when Felder's name was moved. Arguably Glenn and Henley were trying to "take him down a peg." Certainly that's how he perceived it.

[Scarlet Sun]

So, moving on, then.

I've always wondered how much one has to contribute to get a songwriting credit, and who makes these decisions.

For instance, we know Joe helped work out guitar parts on "Hotel California", but he doesn't get a songwriting credit. Is it a mutual decision perhaps, between everyone involved?

Then, there's also an issue of name order. Who decides which name goes first on the written credits? Obviously Felder wasn't consulted when his name was kicked out of the front spot of "Hotel California" for the Hell Freezes Over credits, and the fact that he was no longer listed first upset him.

While some may argue that's a petty concern, it obviously means something to songwriters. Look at the big outcry from John Lennon's camp when Paul McCartney listed his name before Lennon's on some songs on one of his albums a few years ago. Yoko Ono even consulted a lawyer about whether or not she could sue to stop him from doing so.

It's a point of pride, perhaps, to have one's name listed first, even if everyone still gets the same amount of money. Thus, I think it'd safe to assume a statement was being made there when Felder's name was moved. Arguably Glenn and Henley were trying to "take him down a peg." Certainly that's how he perceived it.

Legally, it's melody an lyrics only. But yeah, it really is up to everyone involved and how they feel about it. For example, I think Joe only wrote the guitar intro to Life In The Fast Lane, but since the was written after and around that riff, Don and Glenn felt he deserved a credit, and because he started it, that's probably why he's listed first.

[sodascouts]

Hmm, interesting. So what happens if there's disagreement about the credits?

[Scarlet Sun]

Hmm, interesting. So what happens if there's disagreement about the credits?

Bad stuff, i'd imagine. Like lawsuits. Look what happened with Whiter Shade Of Pale

[TimothyBFan]

I'm sorry, but I'm just now coming in on this and after reading this whole thread, I'm a bit ticked by the whole discussion. At the risk of alienating someone, I'm giving my 2 cents because, frankly, I'm getting a little tired of some people thinking they know so much more than others on here. I have always said that I don't pay much attention to who writes parts of songs/ who even plays on parts of songs/etc.... to me it's just music I love and I can definitely tell you who sings what songs (99% of the time) but that's as far as my knowledge usually goes and I'm not afraid to admit that or bow down to people more knowledgeable than I. BUT---when someone claims to know so much but then states things that are incorrect and then tries to back pedal to save face and explain away something by saying "you don't understand" that's when I take offense. Like Soda said, it's an insult to mine and others intelligence on here. Just because I don't know that stuff makes me no less a fan than someone who knows it and just because you claim to know it doesn't make it so. That's why I DON'T make comments stating things I'm really not sure about.

Case in point of back tracking.....

even "All She Wants To Do Is Dance" plays out in my head. I can see the plane taxing down the runway in my head and the Molotov cocktail and all of that. Maybe everyone can't but it's just something I personally identify with Henley's writing.

I know it was written by someone else - that's my point. Other songwriters can do this too - not just one person.

Not buying it. Sorry!!

. Take It Easy is Glenn's "Hotel California". It sounds like Glenn's writing.

I knew Take It Easy was co-written and it's pretty easy to tell which parts were Glenn's.

The second comment even after several post that had proof that Glenn HIMSELF has stated he came up with ONE line in the song.

Indeed, there are no Eagles songs credited solely to Don Henley.

This was one of the first things that came to mind with all the talk about "recognizing Don's writing". If that's the case then it must be someone who has more time and patience than I do to listen to each line to distinguish which lines he's written.

In my opinion that's two lines, not one line!

I say we definitely give him that since that is the most recognizable part of the song that EVERYONE knows unless you've lived under a rock the last 30 or so years.

Let me end this lengthy post/rant by saying this ... I would NEVER claim to know more about the Eagles than several members on this board, namely our fearless leader, Soda -the queen of all Eagles knowledge, Freypower, Dreamer and several others. Even after years on this board, their knowledge still amazes me!! I think some people should learn to just go with that and be ok with the fact you may not know as much as others do. Just my OPINION.

[Topkat]

As far as I know, even if you add 1 word to a song, you can be given songwriting credit. This is why many of the "new young singers" are sitting in on the songwriting, because of the credit & future royalties.

John Lennon & Paul McCartney had an agreement for songs to be listed as Lennon/McCartney even if only one of them wrote the song. Why Lennon's name was first was because they thought it sounded better, no other reason. I think there was some lawsuit with Yoko over something with Paul on this. (not 100% sure about what happened) That agreement was made over 50 years ago, so who knows????

Generally, the first name listed is the one who wrote most of the song, but the Eagles have changed the order of the writing credits on HC & they also did this on ICTYW, moving TBS name to the end, when it originally was listed first.