Felder's Role in Writing Hotel California

[Henley Honey]

with JD (no periods please) Souther.

[chaim]

It seems to me that sometimes who originated a song is more important than the amount of that contribution in the finished result. For example, if person A writes a little riff and a song is built from that, he/she is credited. But if the song already exists and he/she writes the same riff to this existing song, he/she isn't necessarily credited. As a KISS fan I must mention (I believe I have mentioned this before too...) some of those early KISS songs that were Paul's. Gene wrote his basslines and in some cases the guitarists decided to play Gene's bassline too, so it became the main riff of the song. Still Gene wasn't credited, and didn't want to be, for his little contribution, because the actual songs were Paul's.
When someone harmonizes (writes chords for) an existing melody by someone else, he/she isn't necessarily credited. But if he/she writes the same chords and someone later adds a melody to it, the writer of the chords is credited too. So all this stuff is somewhat confusing to me.
A good example of disagreement over credits is "A whiter shade of pale", I think. The song already existed when Matthew Fisher joined Procol Harum. As far as I know, Gary Brooker (the composer of the song) wanted something Bach-like for the intro and played something Bach-like with his piano before Fisher joined as an organist. Then, when Fisher had joined the band and later came the time to record the song, he took different stuff he had improvised earlier and came up with that classic intro. But it said "Brooker/Reid". Reid wrote the lyrics, of course. Brooker always thought of Fisher's contribution as another part of a player. Fisher, however, thought of it as part of the composition and sued the band about fourty years after the song was recorded. He did get his name in there and, as I understand, his share of the future royalties. But he didn't get money from past sales when he asked for that. I understand that Brooker had to play in court what he had played for the intro before Fisher joined. It was crazy, but then again, court cases often are...

[Topkat]

When someone harmonizes (writes chords for) an existing melody by someone else, he/she isn't necessarily credited. But if he/she writes the same chords and someone later adds a melody to it, the writer of the chords is credited too. So all this stuff is somewhat confusing to me.

I'm pretty sure the person who writes chords for an existing melody by someone else would get credit. You can get a writing credit for only adding or changing a few words of a song. It is confusing, but I think if someone felt they added something to a song, especially a "hit" song, & they weren't credited, they would fight for it & sue. It's sometimes big money involved. These guys are collecting royalties for songs written 50 years ago. It's an income. The singer doesn't collect the royalties, the writers do.

I heard Pete Townshend makes tons of money from the Who songs played on all 3 CSI shows everyday, but Roger & the rest of the band don't.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I don't think there are any set rules about who gets credit other than what SS said that legally the royalties go to the writers of the melody and lyrics. At least, that's what I found out in a web search. It's pretty much up to the individuals involved as to who is given credit. To me, it seems like the writer(s) of the music should be legally entitled to royalites as well, but apparently that's not the case. Singers can get sales or performance royalties if it is written in their contract.

Bringing this back to the Eagles, assuming the above information is correct, in the case of Hotel California - legally they didn't have to give Felder any credit at all. It definitely was the fair thing to do though, IMO. I've always been curious as to why Joe wasn't given credit as well for his contribution, but I guess they were all okay with that decision at the time.

And I agree with Soda that I have read where Don and Glenn agreed early on to use Henley/Frey on writing credits mainly because they thought it sounded better just like Lennon/McCartney.

[Scarlet Sun]

Bringing this back to the Eagles, assuming the above information is correct, in the case of Hotel California - legally they didn't have to give Felder any credit at all. It definitely was the fair thing to do though, IMO. I've always been curious as to why Joe wasn't given credit as well for his contribution, but I guess they were all okay with that decision at the time.

Are we sure that Felder only wrote the chord progression and not the melody too? Also, guitar solos are seldom, if ever, considered part of the composition.

[Freypower]

BTW, here are Don Felder's feelings about the name order change, in his words (see full article here):

"But I did want to say something about “Hotel California.” When I wrote that song and that track, and we put it on the album, on the original vinyl in 1976, the credits read, “ Hotel California,’ written by Don Felder, Don Henley and Glenn Frey.” And typically when songwriters write together, the person who wrote the most of that song is listed first, the person who wrote the second amount is listed second, and the person who wrote the least is listed third. If you look at the ’76 vinyl, that’s the credits. When we reformed in 1994, and we re-recorded “Hotel California,” which is, as far as I know, the only song recorded twice, by the same band, and has been nominated for Grammys both times. But on those credits, after I rearranged the whole track, wrote the introduction, wrote the solos, wrote everything, and Don Henley did nothing different from what he’d done before, and Glenn Frey added nothing to it in ’94, the credits read, “‘Hotel California,’ written by Don Henley, Glenn Frey and Don Felder.”

I couldn’t say anything publicly about it when I was in a band, but to me that’s the classic example of greed, power and control. Somebody who would seize something like that credit for themselves, to elevate themselves in history unfairly and unjustly over what they’d done – it’s a shame to me. But despite all of that small stuff, I didn’t care about that. The fact that I was able to write something that was part of being such a legendary hit means everything to me."

Coincidentally, Felder sued Glenn, Henley, and Azoff for $200 million on this day in 2001!

I don't know about all this 'elevate themselves unfairly' stuff. Look at the beginning of the quote: 'When I wrote that song and that track'.

He doesn't get it. It works both ways. If Frey/Henley have 'elevated themselves unfairly' so has he.

He has a case for being upset that his name was placed last in 1994, but he still clings to this apparent belief that he wrote the entire song.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Are we sure that Felder only wrote the chord progression and not the melody too? Also, guitar solos are seldom, if ever, considered part of the composition.

Well - that is very interesting that guitar solos aren't considered part of the composition. To me, they should be. Sometimes that's the best part.

And, again, I don't think we know much of anything for sure about who wrote what. I based this on that I don't recall Felder ever taking specific credit for writing the melody in HC, whereas he has said that he contributed to the melody in Victim of Love.

Also, I'm reposting part of what Glenn said in The Very Best of ... liner notes, which I think implies that he and Henley wrote the melody ...

Almost everybody in my business can write music, play guitar, play piano, create chord progressions, etc., but it's only when you add lyrics and melody and voices to these things that they take on an identity and become something beyond that sum of the individual parts.

[chaim]

I'm pretty sure the person who writes chords for an existing melody by someone else would get credit. You can get a writing credit for only adding or changing a few words of a song. It is confusing, but I think if someone felt they added something to a song, especially a "hit" song, & they weren't credited, they would fight for it & sue. It's sometimes big money involved. These guys are collecting royalties for songs written 50 years ago. It's an income. The singer doesn't collect the royalties, the writers do.

I heard Pete Townshend makes tons of money from the Who songs played on all 3 CSI shows everyday, but Roger & the rest of the band don't.

It my vary, depending which country we are talking about? Here in Finland is seems to be the case that adding chords is not "writing". A friend of mine, for example, wrote the chords for a well-known song (well-known in Finland, that is) at some point in the late 60's or early 70's. He wasn't credited, because he just harmonized an existing melody. He may have been credited for arranging the song; I'm not sure. There are other cases as well that I'm aware of. I've been in this situation myself a few times. Personally I think that the choice of chords has a LOT to do with how the melody affects the listener. But it seems to me that at least in Finland harmonizing a melody isn't "writing". One of my friends actually told me once that it isn't "officially" part of the writing.

[sodascouts]

That seems to jive with what Scarlet Sun said, unless i misunderstood him. Like you, he's a professional who knows what he's talking about.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you guys have said, it sounds like any additional credits besides melody and lyrics are bestowed out of nicety rather than out of legal obligation. Other than "Whiter Shade of Pale" I can't recall any other prominent legal battles. I'm sure there must be others that I'm unfamiliar with, but it doesn't seem to be commonplace.

[chaim]

I must say at this point that I'm not a proffessional. The examples I mentioned that had to do with myself were songs by a friend of mine and he never actually released them on CD. But a couple of songs by this same friend (on earlier versions of which I played) were later released by another group and in those the writer of the chords certainly wasn't credited. I don't think that record had any of the songs I had written chords for. This friend of mine could never (at least couldn't then) come up with chords for his melodies, but he was darn good at writing melodies. Violin and mandolin stuff.

As for Soda's "out of nicety" question, I'm afraid I don't have the answer. It seems to me that there are hundreds of musicians who feel they should have been credited (as songwriters) for the little parts they played with their beloved instruments. This is a bizarre area and I really don't know much about it. Freddie Mercury used to think (at least in the seventies) that whoever wrote the lyrics, wrote the song! So they pretty much went with that in the early days. Brian May has said that he wrote the bridge for Freddie's "Seven seas of Rhye", but Freddie's "whoever wrote the lyric, wrote the song" principle prevented Brian from being credited. "Liar" on Queen's first album has music from various people, but Freddie wrote the lyric, so it's a "Mercury" song. Not that Freddie didn't write an awful lot of music. He was an amazing pop/rock composer and wrote tons of songs by himself. I guess it's pretty much up to the artists themselves who gets credited. There are many cases where a person has written music or some lyrics, but wasn't credited. Using Gene Simmons as an example once again, he wrote a whole instrumental section for an early song of Ace Frehley's, but didn't feel like asking to be credited for that. It's one of their best-known songs today, but as far as I know, Mr. Simmons has never cried over it.