Question on "Lyin' Eyes"

[WalshFan88]

I think most of us do stop and think before hitting that post button and I also think we should. I know I do myself, especially when responding to a "touchy" subject, read over it. For me, it's as much about my grammar, punctuation, spelling and capitalization as it is about what I say. It's hard to make a point if people can't understand it or even read it. KWIM?

I say carry on, just the way you do!! Why shouldn't you?

I agree, although there becomes a point I think where when you have to second guess everything you say as to try to avoid an argument (even if you end up posting it), that it becomes tiresome. But I always do a word check as well. I don't mind a passionate debate, but when every thought/opinion/etc you post gets turned into something its not, it gets old after awhile. That's what I meant.

I will of course still share my views but I just see no purpose to the back and forth stuff anymore over everything I post. We (FP and I) obviously disagree on this kind of stuff, no use keep talking about it, or "beating a dead horse into the ground".

[Prettymaid]

Austin, you've always been respectful on the board. I've never read one of your posts and thought that you've crossed any line. It's too bad you feel you have to edit your posts to avoid the wrath of FP! I understand though. For example, if I post that Joe is a crowd favorite of Eagles shows, I know that FP will somehow infer that I am not respecting Glenn, even though I don't mean any such thing. But I have to post what I think, otherwise I would get very bored here.

So to each his/her own opinion, and let's relish the differences! That is what makes The Border so fun - posting our opinions respectfully and answering posts with respect also.

[WalshFan88]

Austin, you've always been respectful on the board. I've never read one of your posts and thought that you've crossed any line. It's too bad you feel you have to edit your posts to avoid the wrath of FP! I understand though. For example, if I post that Joe is a crowd favorite of Eagles shows, I know that FP will somehow infer that I am not respecting Glenn, even though I don't mean any such thing. But I have to post what I think, otherwise I would get very bored here.

So to each his/her own opinion, and let's relish the differences! That is what makes The Border so fun - posting our opinions respectfully and answering posts with respect also.

Amen. I couldn't agree more! I think it's great there is passionate likeminded people who feel as strongly about music as I do - even if we don't always agree on everything all the time or like the same stuff. It's what makes us unique. If we all liked the same stuff it'd be a pretty boring place.

[Prettymaid]

Okay then, since we all agree that we have no idea who wrote what, let's just make it a fun thread of guesses!

First of all though Mary, aren't there more than three verses in LE? It sure seems like eight to me!

Just for fun, I would guess that maybe Don had a hand in writing this one.

My, oh my, you sure know how to arrange things
You set it up so well, so carefully
Ain't it funny how your new life didn't change things
You're still the same old girl you used to be

I'm not sure I can say why I guess this one....the whole song (except for the chorus) is she, she, she. This verse says you. He's now speaking to her instead of about her. And the you sure know how to arrange things line sounds kind of Don-ish to me, plus he harmonizes on this verse. So there you have it. My very rough (and fun) opinion on the whole thing!

[Freypower]

I agree, although there becomes a point I think where when you have to second guess everything you say as to try to avoid an argument (even if you end up posting it), that it becomes tiresome. But I always do a word check as well. I don't mind a passionate debate, but when every thought/opinion/etc you post gets turned into something its not, it gets old after awhile. That's what I meant.

I will of course still share my views but I just see no purpose to the back and forth stuff anymore over everything I post. We (FP and I) obviously disagree on this kind of stuff, no use keep talking about it, or "beating a dead horse into the ground".

I overreacted & I apologise. There is no need to tiptoe around. If I disagree with you I will not respond.

[timfan]

I think we need to remember what makes this board fun is that we all have our favourites and differing opinions! It isn't about not posting or apologising for having a fav or opinion... that's what makes this board and being an Eagle fan interesting. We are all allowed to have those opinions and need to respect each other and those opinions even if we don't agree with them. JMO of course!

[Freypower]

Austin, you've always been respectful on the board. I've never read one of your posts and thought that you've crossed any line. It's too bad you feel you have to edit your posts to avoid the wrath of FP! I understand though. For example, if I post that Joe is a crowd favorite of Eagles shows, I know that FP will somehow infer that I am not respecting Glenn, even though I don't mean any such thing. But I have to post what I think, otherwise I would get very bored here.

So to each his/her own opinion, and let's relish the differences! That is what makes The Border so fun - posting our opinions respectfully and answering posts with respect also.

You will get no argument from me that Joe is the crowd favourite. Not even I am so blind. Sorry, I had to clarify that.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Wow, I can see I missed quite a bit while having fun in Florida! At any rate, PM, I know you said FUN, but you may be on to something. The change in the point-of-view could be a very telltale sign.

I'd never heard that Don only wrote one verse, and it seems to me the entertaining part is imagining the conversation between them before they actually said, 'hey, this could be a song.'

[Brooke]

I welcome everyone's opinion. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but we must allow everyone to have one! Hearing others makes me delve in to the subject a little bit more and think about it in a different way. Sometimes hearing someone's thoughts makes me completely change my mind, as in the Survivor games lately.

I love LE and must listen to it again to see if I can form an opinion on who wrote what! I hadn't thought about that before!

I'll be back!

[sodascouts]

I think everyone should feel free to express their opinions, but also should be prepared for their opinions to be examined and perhaps disagreed with.

I've always felt Henley had a great way of turning lyrics into pictures when he sings and really making it like a movie playing or a picture collage where you really can "see" what he's talking about and not just assume.

LE doesn't give me that kind of vibe like I get from HC or LITFL, TBH, but if there is any verse that does, it's that quoted one above.

I think he's a very "visual" lyricist. Where as to me Glenn is much better at singing/writing "feel good" songs (TIE, AG, PEF) or songs with a thought out story (LE, TS, NKIT) and more detail. Don's come out like movie scripts or something (LITFL for sure, even HC). Like taking you on a visual journey. Hard to explain - easy to see, for me at least. JMO. Maybe its more the way he sings it than writing, IDK.

OK, so this is your opinion. Let's examine the assumptions you're basing your opinion on.

Your opinion is based on the fact that you feel a certain way - get a certain "vibe" - from lyrics you believe Don has written, and that this "vibe" is different from the one you get off of lyrics you believe Glenn has written. However, half of your examples of the "feel good" songs you say Glenn is so good at writing are actually songs that he didn't write (he wrote one line of "Take It Easy"; "Already Gone" and "Peaceful Easy Feeling" were written by other people). That kind of fundamental mistake considerably weakens the argument that you can accurately distinguish between Glenn's or Don's writing styles and the writing styles of others via a "vibe."

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong regarding Don writing that verse of "Lyin' Eyes" - that's impossible to determine. I am saying that perhaps you should re-examine the underlying assumptions that have led you to that opinion. Are they really logical? For instance, is it really logical to assume that because someone sings lead on a song, he is the major lyrical contributor? I think TIE, AG, and PEF answer that question.

I don't say this as a Glenn fan trying to defend him; I don't believe you were trying to insult Glenn. I say this is a critical thinker who believes opinions should be supported by facts and logic. Even speculation needs to have an accurate basis. If you can support your opinion with facts and logic, you're golden! If you can't, don't be surprised if people question your opinion.

To say Glenn's songs are not 'visual' - how many examples do you want? Tequila Sunrise, It's Your World Now, Smuggler's Blues, You Belong To The City, River Of Dreams, Long Hot Summer, After Hours. And you can be just as 'visual' in evoking feelings in a song like You Are Not Alone as you can writing lyrics which play like a 'movie script'. Not all songs have to 'tell a story'. In any case you then say he writes songs which have 'more detail' and a 'thought out story' which appears to contradict your statement that his songs aren't 'visual'.

Well, since Jack Tempchin is a co-writer of most of these songs and we don't know who wrote what, it's hard to make a solid case that all of these reflect Glenn's lyrical style (see my reply to Austin above). In that sense, your argument is also problematic except as it pertains to "You Are Not Alone."

Finally, I would add that I hope everyone understands that intelligent debate is not the same as an attack. If someone disagrees with you and has fact-based reasonable arguments, I don't see a problem. The only problem is when there is personal invective involved - that's a no-no.

I certainly have had some of my arguments shot down before. My reaction to that isn't to get hurt that someone found weaknesses in my argument; my reaction is to make sure my next argument doesn't have those weaknesses.