Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 72

Thread: Those Shoes - Stevie?

  1. #21
    Out on the Border
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freypower
    Moonrambler, I am glad you found us. Welcome.

    Dear John was the track from The Confessor that came to my mind as well but I don't know enough about the situation.
    Several reasons I think Dear John is about Joe's ex-wife and not about Stevie.

    A) there's that nasty little interview he gave that gets quoted now and then, where he talks about how music comes first, and that basically he wound up getting divorced because music comes first. This is the general theme of Dear John -- beginning with "I started out to write you this letter, but it ended up another song." And "I've just got to get back to my music" -- I don't see Stevie trying to keep him from his music.

    B) "we both promised forever"

    C) I figure the song's placement on the album is important, as the final song -- the end. It seems more likely to me it was about a years-long marriage ending rather than a shorter relationship.

    D) and the main thing, his ex-wife's name is Juanita. As far as I can tell, she usually went by a nickname, but that's her given name.

  2. #22
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Where Faulkner collides with Elvis
    Posts
    33,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moonrambler
    It's interesting this came up because I've been wanting to ask you something about Stevie's songs. Similar to how some fans figure Don's songs are about Stevie when they're not, ever since I read about Stevie's relationship with Joe, now it always seems to me that all her songs are about him. There is one specific instance though that I wondered if you knew about, or have an opinion about -- the placement of "No Spoken Word" directly before "Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You." It makes me wonder if she answers her question "What was it she wanted?" by placing "Has Anyone" right afterward.
    Welcome from me, too!

    For those not familiar with the song "No Spoken Word" off of Stevie's Rock a Little album, here they are:

    I was just that old
    That August dark, dark day
    Swear that you never saw her face
    Swear that you never heard her say

    No spoken word
    No small command
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything

    No spoken word
    No small command
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything

    What shall I do?
    What shall I say?
    Should I say, well, all the things
    That I'd like to say to you

    No spoken word
    No small command
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything

    Let's make a deal, here

    For one night
    Well, baby, you fill the night with
    The wind and the rain and the water
    For one night
    Well, just for one night
    You know that
    Well, that disastrous sound

    Now it will make me wiser
    He says, "And it will make you look"
    She says, "Look out!
    I don't know how to learn
    From the pages of a book
    Well, I either say too much
    Or I, I don't say enough
    Well, I play too hard
    Still I'm not tough enough"
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything

    No spoken word
    No small command, hey, hey
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything

    Come around tonight indecent
    Well...baby
    Come around tonight
    Indecent, baby, well
    You fill the room
    With the rain and the wind and the water

    If you tell me one more time
    "Baby, take it easy"
    Well, you won't see me ever again
    Some people walk down the darkened streets
    With the faith of a child
    And so go the faithless
    But after a while she says...

    No spoken word
    Let's make a deal, here
    No small command
    What was it she wanted
    They said she had...
    Oh, I don't want to know about it...

    --------------------

    My friend who is staying with me this week and I have been debating this. What's confusing is that Stevie has a habit of switching from first to third person when talking about herself. You can interpret this as a woman angry about her man cheating on her, or you can interpret this as Stevie's relationship with her man (Joe?) getting very complicated. My friend and I are thinking it does indeed fit Joe. Let's do a "close reading," to use a literary term. Note: This is all speculation.

    I was just that old
    That August dark, dark day
    Swear that you never saw her face
    Swear that you never heard her say

    No spoken word
    No small command
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything


    Stevie has complained in interviews that Joe didn't listen to her, that he wanted to play around with his buddies instead of be with her. She has said that she would have given up her career for Joe if he "would just have been serious for one minute." Now, she could have been exaggerating, but if she feels he was immature in the relationship, that could make her feel "old." The "What was it she wanted" could also play into that - did she really want to give up her career? Or was that just talk? As a rock star, they said she had everything, but did she have love?

    What shall I do?
    What shall I say?
    Should I say, well, all the things
    That I'd like to say to you


    Should she let Joe know how serious she is, how hurt she is by his seeming lack of commitment?

    Let's make a deal, here

    For one night
    Well, baby, you fill the night with
    The wind and the rain and the water
    For one night
    Well, just for one night
    You know that
    Well, that disastrous sound


    Not to be indelicate, but perhaps the sex - or the violently intense level of emotional connection she feels when with him - is making it worth it, even if it's just for one night before he has to go on tour or whatever - basically, has to leave. I think that is the "disastrous sound" - "goodbye."


    Now it will make me wiser
    He says, "And it will make you look"
    She says, "Look out!
    I don't know how to learn
    From the pages of a book
    Well, I either say too much
    Or I, I don't say enough
    Well, I play too hard
    Still I'm not tough enough"
    What was it she wanted?
    They say she had everything


    She and he, having a fight perhaps - she talks about the way he treats her will make her wiser, and he agrees! So she changes tactics - she doesn't learn from her mistakes in that way. She never seems to say the right things to get him to do what she wants him to do, and in that sense doesn't know "how to learn." She "plays hard" with Joe because that's what he wants, but still she's "not tough enough" to endure the emotional disconnect when he leaves. Again, does she really want more attachment? Perhaps he is the one that suspects she doesn't really want what she is asking for.

    Come around tonight indecent
    Well...baby
    Come around tonight
    Indecent, baby, well
    You fill the room
    With the rain and the wind and the water

    If you tell me one more time
    "Baby, take it easy"
    Well, you won't see me ever again
    Some people walk down the darkened streets
    With the faith of a child
    And so go the faithless


    The "come around tonight indecent" seems to be another reference to the emphasis on their sex life being good, perhaps being the only time she feels they truly connect. When she wants or even demands more, Joe tells her "take it easy" - and she makes that threat that he won't ever see her again as a result. But does she want to take it back? Does she want him to forget about it, as if she's said "No spoken word" or "no small command"?

    Complicated, huh? That was fun. I've never thought about it being about Joe, but now it makes a lot more sense to me.

    By the way, I don't know if I've told you this before, but "Long Way to Go" on The Other Side of the Mirror is about their final breakup (they broke up at least twice).

    You can find more information about Stevie and Joe in this thread:
    https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/...read.php?t=209


    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  3. #23

    Default

    Wow, Soda, that's some analysis. It's interesting that Stevie uses this metaphor
    For one night
    Well, baby, you fill the night with
    The wind and the rain and the water
    It reminds me of that line in 'Sara', which I think goes like this:
    And he was just like a great dark wind within the wings of a storm
    I hadn't realised she and Joe had broken up twice.
    Thanks for the link back to the other thread.


    www.donfelderonline.com
    ~~~~~
    This way to happiness...

  4. #24
    Out on the Border
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaScouts
    Complicated, huh? That was fun. I've never thought about it being about Joe, but now it makes a lot more sense to me.

    By the way, I don't know if I've told you this before, but "Long Way to Go" on The Other Side of the Mirror is about their final breakup (they broke up at least twice).
    I'm glad the work you did on that was fun, because that was quite an in-depth interpretation! The way you looked at that song is enlightening because I have to tell you, I had no idea what in the world most of it is about. But those lines "What was it she wanted? They say she had everything" are totally clear. She sounds angry, bitter, sarcastic. And I can almost imagine what she felt like -- everybody figured she had it so totally made -- beautiful, successful, etc. But in reality she was heartbroken because she couldn't have the one person she really wanted at that point in time.

    I had read somewhere that Long Way To Go is about them also, and I also read an interview with her where she tells about that night, and how she cried all the way home . . . man, he must've really been something when he was being nice, for her to love him so much, because he sounds like he was such a louse back then

    edit: typo

  5. #25
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Where Faulkner collides with Elvis
    Posts
    33,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glenneaglesfan
    Wow, Soda, that's some analysis. It's interesting that Stevie uses this metaphor
    For one night
    Well, baby, you fill the night with
    The wind and the rain and the water
    It reminds me of that line in 'Sara', which I think goes like this:
    And he was just like a great dark wing within the wings of a storm
    I know what you mean. Both are variations of storms being associated with not only intense feeling, but passionate sexual intimacy.

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  6. #26
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Where Faulkner collides with Elvis
    Posts
    33,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moonrambler
    I'm glad the work you did on that was fun, because that was quite an in-depth interpretation! The way you looked at that song is enlightening because I have to tell you, I had no idea what in the world most of it is about.
    You're not the only one, lol.

    But those lines "What was it she wanted? They say she had everything" are totally clear. She sounds angry, bitter, sarcastic. And I can almost imagine what she felt like -- everybody figured she had it so totally made -- beautiful, sucessful, etc. But in reality she was heartbroken because she couldn't have the one person she really wanted at that point in time.
    Exactly - and to this day she expresses sadness at not being able to find true love or have a family due to the choices she made when she was at the height of her success.

    I had read somewhere that Long Way To Go is about them also, and I also read an interview with her where she tells about that night, and how she cried all the way home . . . man, he must've really been something when he was being nice, for her to love him so much, because he sounds like he was such a louse back then
    Again, I'm just speculating, but the way Stevie talks about how she could see his pain even when he hid it from others... I think she felt like he needed her, and she could understand him even when no one else could. Perhaps that drew her to him even when he was being an ass - she knew that it wasn't the REAL Joe.

    Many Stevie fans dislike Joe intensely because he called Stevie nothing more than a "road f*ck" in an interview with Howard Stern in 1995. I'm sure he was just going for a laugh and didn't really mean it, but it won him no friends in that camp! lol He apparently also made a silly joke about her at a concert in '94 and mocked her at his Jones Beach show in 1990. I should note that as far as I know, he has said nice things when asked about her in more recent times.

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  7. #27
    Out on the Border
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaScouts
    Many Stevie fans dislike Joe intensely because he called Stevie nothing more than a "road f*ck" in an interview with Howard Stern in 1995. I'm sure he was just going for a laugh and didn't really mean it, but it won him no friends in that camp! lol He apparently also made a silly joke about her at a concert in '94 and mocked her at his Jones Beach show in 1990. I should note that as far as I know, he has said nice things when asked about her in more recent times.
    I think that stupid comment had to have been before he quit using, and y'know what -- the 1995 date can't be right -- he didn't do any interviews with Howard once he got sober, until just a couple years ago. 1985 maybe? Even so, I don't understand why he'd want to be so awful about her, unless he was p.o.'d/hurt that she walked out and wouldn't put up with his b.s. anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaScouts
    Again, I'm just speculating, but the way Stevie talks about how she could see his pain even when he hid it from others... I think she felt like he needed her, and she could understand him even when no one else could. Perhaps that drew her to him even when he was being an ass - she knew that it wasn't the REAL Joe.
    I think he probably did need her, and I think he's acknowledged this to a degree also. Saying that she was responsible for The Confessor album ever coming into existence, for instance -- that's quite a statement. And I think the fact that she's the only person he thanked by name in the liner notes on that album also was quite a statement.

    And in a fairly recent radio interview with call-ins, he even said she helped him get through losing his daughter -- which I thought was noticeable since their relationship took place ten years after he lost Emma. In all that time, it sounds like Stevie was the one who managed to get through to him on some level.

    I've found it surprising that Stevie has been so encouraging of him all along, while he was acting like such a jerk. What she wrote in the liner notes for "Has Anyone" on Timespace, although it tells the tale for the audience of how the song came to be written, her words seem obviously directed at Joe.

    So, a couple more questions that I have wondered about. I think she acknowledged in a concert program at some point that he was the one she wrote the song for, and that was the first time she explained that. Do you have any theory as to why she decided at that moment to explain publicly who the song was for? Also, the liner notes on Timespace -- they are so encouraging to him, that it made me wonder if she wrote them because she saw how badly he was sinking into the booze & coke & self-destruction. Maybe?

  8. #28
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Where Faulkner collides with Elvis
    Posts
    33,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moonrambler
    I think that stupid comment had to have been before he quit using, and y'know what -- the 1995 date can't be right -- he didn't do any interviews with Howard once he got sober, until just a couple years ago. 1985 maybe? Even so, I don't understand why he'd want to be so awful about her, unless he was p.o.'d/hurt that she walked out and wouldn't put up with his b.s. anymore.
    I investigated it a bit because I don't want to spread misinformation. Here is one fan's memory of the show (scroll down to reply #21 by "Soft Silver Chain.") Warning: some people are being immature in the thread below. Also, I'm not saying these fans are representative of Stevie fans in general. There are many boards in the Fleetwood Mac fandom, and this board (Seven Wonders) has a bit of a reputation as attracting mostly a younger crowd (no offense to the teens and preteens!)
    http://www.sevenwondersonline.net/in...c,1903.15.html

    However, I can find no such interview recorded, and the last known appearance of Joe on Howard Stern is 1993 up until 2005, I believe. So you're right in that Kelly (SoftSilverChain) must have her dates wrong. I had always assumed the comment was pre-sobriety, too. In fact, in my original post above, I put it was an interview in the eighties, then went to look it up to be sure and was very shocked to find the 1995 date!

    I think he probably did need her, and I think he's acknowledged this to a degree also. Saying that she was responsible for The Confessor album ever coming into existence, for instance -- that's quite a statement. And I think the fact that she's the only person he thanked by name in the liner notes on that album also was quite a statement.

    And in a fairly recent radio interview with call-ins, he even said she helped him get through losing his daughter -- which I thought was noticeable since their relationship took place ten years after he lost Emma. In all that time, it sounds like Stevie was the one who managed to get through to him on some level.
    That really is a testament to their relationship.

    I've found it surprising that Stevie has been so encouraging of him all along, while he was acting like such a jerk. What she wrote in the liner notes for "Has Anyone" on Timespace, although it tells the tale for the audience of how the song came to be written, her words seem obviously directed at Joe.
    She probably chalked it up to defense mechanisms. SHe has said that the fact that she understood him so well "scared" him.

    So, a couple more questions that I have wondered about. I think she acknowledged in a concert program at some point that he was the one she wrote the song for, and that was the first time she explained that. Do you have any theory as to why she decided at that moment to explain publicly who the song was for? Also, the liner notes on Timespace -- they are so encouraging to him, that it made me wonder if she wrote them because she saw how badly he was sinking into the booze & coke & self-destruction. Maybe?
    I didn't realize that the first time it had been mentioned was in a tour program. I will have to ask one of my friends who collects Stevie's tours programs to look it up and see what it says. I only collect Fleetwood Mac tour programs - and Eagles and Glenn Frey, of course.

    As for TimeSpace, I think it was just a coincidence in the sense that she wrote extensive liner notes for all of her songs on TimeSpace. However, she does address him personally: "Thank you, Joe, for the most committed song I ever wrote... But more than that, thank you for inspiring me in so many ways. Nothing in my life ever seems as dark anymore since we took that drive." That's pretty impressive.

    When she performed it live, she used to introduce the song as being about everyone, about anyone who was suffering in her audience. I'm not sure she was comfortable talking about it onstage, because one time in 1989 she started to talk about it and actually stopped herself.

    As you said, originally, she never said a name - only gave hints. For examples, check out the first two quotes on Ali's page:

    http://www.inherownwords.com/hasanyone.htm

    It's interesting to read them now, knowing it was Joe she was talking about.

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  9. #29
    Moderator Ive always been a dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cruising down the center of a two-way street in VA
    Posts
    20,198

    Default

    Told ya that Soda would have something to say about this!

    It is very interesting to hear about this stuff. I think most of the guys have admitted to sometimes being jerks regarding the way they treated some of their ladies when they were younger. Thankfully, they have matured and I don't think you would hear any of them say stuff like that now.

    "People don't run out of dreams: People just run out of time ..."
    Glenn Frey 11/06/1948 - 01/18/2016

  10. #30
    Out on the Border
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaScouts
    Quote Originally Posted by moonrambler
    I think that stupid comment had to have been before he quit using, and y'know what -- the 1995 date can't be right -- he didn't do any interviews with Howard once he got sober, until just a couple years ago. 1985 maybe? Even so, I don't understand why he'd want to be so awful about her, unless he was p.o.'d/hurt that she walked out and wouldn't put up with his b.s. anymore.
    I investigated it a bit because I don't want to spread misinformation. Here is one fan's memory of the show (scroll down to reply #21 by "Soft Silver Chain.") Warning: some people are being immature in the thread below. Also, I'm not saying these fans are representative of Stevie fans in general. There are many boards in the Fleetwood Mac fandom, and this board (Seven Wonders) has a bit of a reputation as attracting mostly a younger crowd (no offense to the teens and preteens!)
    http://www.sevenwondersonline.net/in...c,1903.15.html

    However, I can find no such interview recorded, and the last known appearance of Joe on Howard Stern is 1993 up until 2005, I believe. So you're right in that Kelly (SoftSilverChain) must have her dates wrong. I had always assumed the comment was pre-sobriety, too. In fact, in my original post above, I put it was an interview in the eighties, then went to look it up to be sure and was very shocked to find the 1995 date!
    Ok, I read through that link. Even though she keeps saying she heard it, and she heard it in '95, that date has to be wrong. There was a big to-do the last time Joe was on Howard's show in the '90s, which I assume must have been taped and then edited each day for national airing later, and Joe had sung "Desperado" on that show and he was all wasted and it was pretty awful. Joe called Howard later and asked him not to run that, but of course Howard did, and Joe never went back on there again for years and years.

    That makes me also wonder about this remark, "He opened for some band that I went to see in 94 in NH," -- where he supposedly made fun of Stevie. He would have been very busy with the Eagles in '94, as early as February, and not opening for some nameless band in NH.

    It was that same website where I found the quote from the program, but I was wrong about the timing -- because it was the Timespace tour book. So apparently she first explained on the Timespace album that the song was written for Joe, and then said it again on the program. I think I must have read something on a message board somewhere that somebody first saw that information on that program. The quote from the program as they have it on Seven Wonders:

    "He had written a song for his baby that he had lost, and I wrote a song for the both of them. My life changed that day. I told the public it was theirs and mine, but it never was, it was my Joe's song, and I would never, ever be the same..."
    ~Stevie Nicks, Timespace tourbook, 1991

    Quote Originally Posted by sodascouts
    As for TimeSpace, I think it was just a coincidence in the sense that she wrote extensive liner notes for all of her songs on TimeSpace. However, she does address him personally: "Thank you, Joe, for the most committed song I ever wrote... But more than that, thank you for inspiring me in so many ways. Nothing in my life ever seems as dark anymore since we took that drive." That's pretty impressive.
    Also the words she quotes from her song right after that, made me wonder if she was telling him something, again, just like in the mid-80s, where she had been telling him he wasn't "finished." Beginning with "Thank you, Joe," and going on to quote from her song with "If not for me, do it for the world," and wrapping up with the word "LEGEND" in capital letters . . . that was a very personal statement to him, I thought.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •