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Thread: Pink Floyd

  1. #41
    Border Desperado MortSahlFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    I read Roger say it somewhere. I don't wanna guess, but I'm guessing it was around the time he got Don Henley, but I saw David say it on a 70's music documentary.

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    Stuck on the Border Jonny Come Lately's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    Interestingly, in this 1987 Rolling Stone article, Roger Waters borrows a lyric from Don's Long Way Home to describe his view on his departure from Pink Floyd. The line he uses is 'There's three sides to every story/ Yours and mine, and the cold hard truth'. This was when Roger was promoting Radio KAOS, so a few years before Don appeared on Amused To Death.

    http://www.pink-floyd.org/artint/rs1187.htm

    MortSahlFan, I think we should get on well as I've noticed that your top five Floyd albums are the same as mine, although we differ slightly on in our order. I would definitely put Wish You Were Here in my top two but that is really the only major difference of opinion we have there. I'm delighted to see Time and Shine On as your top two songs, the former is my favourite from Dark Side and the latter is my overall favourite. I love the other three you mentioned too, although I should probably add that my favourite song from Animals is probably Sheep.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    I read recently that Polly Gilmour writes David's lyrics. I suppose his Floyd lyrics were written by Waters so this is the same. Has he written any lyrics himself?

    Have any of you bought Rattle That Lock yet & what are your thoughts? I have been holding off while I have been so consumed with another British prog rock band.

    Love both High Hopes & Wearing the Inside Out.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    Although Polly has written most of Pink Floyd and David Gilmour's lyrics from The Division Bell onwards, the following non-instrumental Floyd tracks over the years have been written solely by Gilmour, meaning that he wrote the lyrics as well as the music:

    - The Narrow Way (Ummagumma, 1969) (Although strictly speaking, only Part III of this piece has lyrics)
    - Fat Old Sun (Atom Heart Mother, 1970)
    - Childhood's End (Obscured By Clouds, 1972)
    - A New Machine (Parts 1 and 2) (A Momentary Lapse Of Reason, 1987)
    - Sorrow (A Momentary Lapse Of Reason, 1987)
    - Coming Back To Life (The Division Bell, 1994)

    Of these, I personally think Childhood's End is the pick of the bunch, although I'm also fond of Fat Old Sun and Coming Back To Life.

    As far as I am aware, Gilmour also wrote the lyrics to One Slip on A Momentary Lapse Of Reason, where I seem to remember reading that Phil Manzanera's writing credit was for the music. He also wrote most of the songs on his first two solo albums alone - these being his self-titled release ( 1978 ) and About Face (1984), although he did work with a couple of collaborators on couple of tracks on both albums, notably Roy Harper on the former and Pete Townshend on the latter. However, to my knowledge Roger Waters wrote all of the Pink Floyd lyrics from The Dark Side Of The Moon up until The Final Cut.

    As Waters gradually took more and more control of the band after Dark Side, Gilmour (and, to a greater extent, Rick Wright) contributed fewer and fewer songs. Having said this the following songs did feature music written by Gilmour:

    - Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Waters/Gilmour/Wright) (except for Part 9, solely credited to Wright)
    - Wish You Were Here (Gilmour & Waters)
    - Dogs (Waters & Gilmour)
    - Young Lust (Waters & Gilmour)
    - Comfortably Numb (Gilmour & Waters)
    - Run Like Hell (Gilmour & Waters)

    The original demo version of The Wall was recorded by Roger Waters alone and was presented in a rough form to the rest of the band. This was one of two album ideas that he brought at that time, the other would eventually become his first solo record, The Pros and Cons of Hitch-Hiking. The band preferred The Wall but the demos were sufficiently complete to leave little room for the others to add to the songs, hence why Waters dominates the album's writing credits. As for Gilmour's three songs, I think Comfortably Numb and Run Like Hell originated from musical ideas he didn't use for his first solo album, whereas I believe Gilmour did not like Waters' chord sequence for Young Lust so came up with a different one. This might explain why the first two are credited Gilmour/Waters whereas the latter is Waters/Gilmour.

    I haven't bought Rattle That Lock, although I have heard most of it. Two songs are a major departure from his previous work - one is the title track, which features a prominent sample of a SNCF jingle recorded at a French railway station and is probably the most danceable thing he's ever recorded, the other is the somewhat jazzy The Girl In The Yellow Dress. The rest is in his trademark style with his legendary guitar playing still evident. Most reviews I've read have been pretty positive, generally people are saying it's livelier than his last solo effort On An Island or the last Pink Floyd release The Endless River (I like it, but I will admit it's definitely fans-only).

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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    I love to see opinions that differ greatly from mine! IMO the Childhood's End lyric is absolutely terrible. Just easy (and "wise" sounding) rhyming with nothing to say. As for Narrow Way, David has said that he asked Roger to write the lyrics, but he refused. I assume that Roger refused only because the studio side of Ummagumma was supposed to be solo numbers.

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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    Although I don't agree about Childhood's End, I can see where you're coming from regarding the lyrics. I would agree it definitely isn't a great Floyd lyric, but by most standards I find it okay. It isn't not as well written as, say, Roger's Free Four from the same album, which I think is be the sharpest lyric on the Obscured By Clouds album, but I do think it's better than Roger's The Gold It's In The... lyrics which are weak by his standards. If I didn't know better and you asked me which vocal song Gilmour had written alone, I'd have said that one as the song is basically a vehicle for his guitar playing (Rick Wright doesn't feature on it at all - there are no keyboard parts). I enjoy the guitars on that track so I don't mind the lyrics too much there.

    It always is interesting to read contrasting opinions, especially for a band like Floyd where there are quite a lot of albums to be discovered (I use this term because aside from the Big Three of Dark Side, The Wall and Wish You Were Here, not that many individual tracks get a lot of attention or airplay) and therefore different people tend to favour different tracks.

    In all honesty, none of the songs Gilmour has written alone for Pink Floyd have great lyrics. I like all bar one the half dozen songs I listed to a greater or lesser extent (the exception is A New Machine - just awful IMO!) but I like them mainly because of their music rather than because of their lyrical content. Roger was clearly the best songwriter in the band and I think the Ummagumma studio album proved this, as I consider Grantchester Meadows to be the most complete and convincing song of the set (FWIW, The Narrow Way is my second favourite).

    I was listening to the Obscured By Clouds album a while back and it suddenly occurred to me that although it seems like a fairly laid back album on the surface, several of the songs share similar themes of mortality (Wot's Uh The Deal and Free Four being two of the most obvious). It's actually quite dark when you listen to the lyrics closely, but it makes the album thematically cohesive.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Come Lately View Post
    Although I don't agree about Childhood's End, I can see where you're coming from regarding the lyrics. I would agree it definitely isn't a great Floyd lyric, but by most standards I find it okay. It isn't not as well written as, say, Roger's Free Four from the same album, which I think is be the sharpest lyric on the Obscured By Clouds album, but I do think it's better than Roger's The Gold It's In The... lyrics which are weak by his standards. If I didn't know better and you asked me which vocal song Gilmour had written alone, I'd have said that one as the song is basically a vehicle for his guitar playing (Rick Wright doesn't feature on it at all - there are no keyboard parts). I enjoy the guitars on that track so I don't mind the lyrics too much there.

    It always is interesting to read contrasting opinions, especially for a band like Floyd where there are quite a lot of albums to be discovered (I use this term because aside from the Big Three of Dark Side, The Wall and Wish You Were Here, not that many individual tracks get a lot of attention or airplay) and therefore different people tend to favour different tracks.

    In all honesty, none of the songs Gilmour has written alone for Pink Floyd have great lyrics. I like all bar one the half dozen songs I listed to a greater or lesser extent (the exception is A New Machine - just awful IMO!) but I like them mainly because of their music rather than because of their lyrical content. Roger was clearly the best songwriter in the band and I think the Ummagumma studio album proved this, as I consider Grantchester Meadows to be the most complete and convincing song of the set (FWIW, The Narrow Way is my second favourite).

    I was listening to the Obscured By Clouds album a while back and it suddenly occurred to me that although it seems like a fairly laid back album on the surface, several of the songs share similar themes of mortality (Wot's Uh The Deal and Free Four being two of the most obvious). It's actually quite dark when you listen to the lyrics closely, but it makes the album thematically cohesive.
    My favorite on Ummagumma (the studio record) is Rick's piece, then Narrow Way. I love Narrow Way, the song. The lyric doesn't bother me (although David thinks it's terrible), but maybe it's because I know the story - that David didn't want to write the lyrics in the first place. Also, the chorus is lyrically not "easy rhyming". I like the "for a little bit" that "rhymes" with "for a little bit". It also contains the most misheard line in the Pink Floyd discography: "Just close your ears and eyes, be on your way". You can't hear what the line is on the studio version, but it's very clear on bootlegs from that era, and when you check it on the album after that, it is the same line.

    What is your opinion on Stay, lyrically speaking - who wrote it? The song is credited to Wright/Waters, but the lyric is very "Wrightish" - almost like Summer '68 part II. When I think of that lyric, the word "Waters" is the last thing that comes to mind. And yet it says "Wright/Waters".

    I have never thought about the Gold It's In The.... lyric. Interesting observation. Maybe Roger's lyric was different (and rather lame), because he was trying to write it for a certain scene in the movie? However, I haven't seen the film, so I can't say whether it describes a scene or not.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    With regards to Stay, my gut instinct would have been that it was written by Rick alone. This is probably partly because Rick usually only tends to sing lead on his own songs (e.g. Paintbox, Remember A Day), in contrast to Gilmour who sings lead on quite a few Waters compositions (e.g. Cymbaline, Money, Goodbye Blue Sky). I agree that it isn't a 'Roger' lyric and it is certainly quite comparable to Summer '68, except that it covers both 'the evening before' as well as the 'morning after', but his name is on there so he must have contributed something.

    Based on the evidence of the genesis of The Wall and the demos I've heard of songs like Money, I think Roger tended to write most of his songs alone. I tend to think of him as more of a 'traditional songwriter' whereas I think Rick and David probably came up with musical ideas or riffs while jamming on their instruments. I therefore think it's unlikely that Roger would have contributed that much to the music of Stay and thus my best guess would be that he probably helped Rick complete the lyrics or made a few tweaks to them. To use an Eagles comparison, I think it may have been a bit like Don H's contribution to Visions (which I have always thought seems like more of a Felder lyric than a Henley one), where I believe that he contributed some of the lyrics but Felder all wrote the music.

    That's a good point regarding the lyric from The Gold's In The..., I haven't seen La Vallée myself, but having read this plot synopsis I think the main characters go on a journey at one point in the film, so the ideas in the lyrics do fit that. I do know that the members of the Mapunga tribe that provide the vocals at the end of Absolutely Curtains appear in the film, but I think the band was given freedom to write pretty much anything they wanted for the soundtrack and it didn't have to fit with the movie to be included.

    One other point of interest regarding songwriting credits on Obscured By Clouds is the pair of Burning Bridges and Mudmen - the former is credited to Waters/Wright, the latter to Gilmour/Wright. This difference rather surprised me when I first listened to the album, given that Mudmen is to all intents and purposes an instrumental reprise of Burning Bridges. This is actually quite useful as I think it can be deduced from this that Wright probably wrote the main chord sequence/theme that is on both pieces, whereas Waters' only contribution was the lyrics to the former while Gilmour was responsible for the extra guitar parts added to the latter.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    I remember wondering about the Burning Bridges/Mudmen thing too. Since (IMO) David contributed nothing that could be described as "writing", I think his credit on Mudmen came from Rick being very generous indeed. However, it's possible that it was David's idea to take the chord progressions from Burning Bridges and play them in 4/4 (instead of the original 3/4). But still...an actual writing credit??

    If David was credited for some guitar licks, Clare Torry should have been credited for her vocal melodies (which she came up with herself) on Great Gig In The Sky. I think her name is in the credits today, but it's not because the Floyd guys decided to be generous!

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Pink Floyd

    "Stay" was Rick's music, Roger's words.

    To me, Waters and Gilmour are the most complementary musicians ever. John Lennon could write music just fine alone, and had an amazing array of solo albums when he left The Beatles, much better than the other guys. I think Roger's solo albums (or the others) weren't very good - Roger is very wordy, where Gilmour is the opposite.

    I'm in a Pink Floyd forum, so we discuss contributions a lot. Roger actually wrote most of the music as well. David is a guy who would make the song sound better, regardless. Rick was instrumental in the atmosphere (listen to "Wet Dream").. Speaking of Rick's solo album, I know Roger had a quote asking why he had nothing to contribute, but then having some for his solo album. I have a feeling this led to his departure - thinking if I'm the guy writing almost all the music, and writing every lyric since Dark Side, why am I here?

    A few of us separately went to count the contributions, and Gilmour really didn't write any music on "Dark Side of the Moon" besides the jamming which brought "Any Colour You Like" and "Breathe", but is credited to all members, as is "Time" though I know Roger wrote the music for the verse and chorus. I guess Nick got credit for the roto-toms in the beginning, and David plays the best solo and vocal of his life. Even Nick Mason's credit on "Speak To Me' was just a gift from Roger to his pal.

    To me, the best PF was from 1973-1979. I don't care for the first album that much, seems to be the "cool" thing to say how much one loves Syd Barrett, but he had a few songs, some that I think were crap. Funnily enough, the good songs he did write weren't on the album and only released as singles.

    The Final Cut isn't as great because Rick is gone, and it doesn't seem they were working together much except in the early stages, Roger and David playing Donkey Kong, but then having David removed as Producer under the agreement he would get paid the same. Gilmour didn't write any music, and only sings on "Not Now John".

    Though Mason is the only guy on every PF album, on almost every album, they had to get a session drummer because he couldn't play certain songs, especially with timing like on "Mother" or "Two Suns in the Sunset".

    AMLOR and TDB seem to have about 20 members, and not just writing. Carmine Appice plays on "Dogs of War", those two albums remind me of "The Final Cut" as solo albums that were de-facto PF, although with the "dry" albums (my nickname for Water-less), Rick and Nick don't play on a lot of songs. I think it's why "Endless River" is very good. I know it was all leftover material from 1994, but those guys were better at instrumentals. After Rick passed, I always dreamed that David would be in charge of overseeing the last tribute to Rick, and that maybe Roger could add to the songs with some lyrics, and have David singing. The only song that isn't too great is the only song with words. Polly writes a lot of lyrics, but she's not a good lyricist when it comes to music, and I never read her fantasy stuff. I think she was lucky to have been married to David, similar to Yoko Ono who forced her way onto "Double Fantasy".

    Gilmour did write some lyrics on his last album, which is more diverse than "On An Island".

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