WTF??

[GlennLover]

I can see why, Z, and I'm well aware there are plenty here who would be outraged if it happened to another's songs. Even are outraged because Henley is always listed before Frey. All I'm trying to say is that we don't know the reasons it happened or the logic behind it, assuming there was any. So to attribute motivations, especially negative motivations, and to imply they are facts are what I have the issue with. None of us know the reasons and we probably never will. I prefer to think the best of everyone until proven wrong, and so these negative motivations aren't obvious to me, especially as the result did not come close to satisfying the supposed motivation.

My thoughts exactly!

[Topkat]

I'm not saying anyone is evil or has sinister motives...but I don't like the idea of the writing credits being changed on ICTYW...I don't know whose fault it is or how it happened...I don't like it...He's my favorite...obviously...so I'm a little over sensitive where he's concerned...but this just should not happen...
Does it matter really to any of us?...no...but to me it's a respect thing...just sayin'

Well, I don't understand why it bothers you on ICTYW & it doesn't bother you on Hotel California? Just sayin' It's the same situation...Obviously that would bother Don Felder

[Turf]

These songbooks or entries in Guitar World are not official Eagles products. I suppose you will say that when permission was granted for the songs to be printed it was specified that the credits read Henley/Frey/Felder. Unless you can give proof of that, I think it is unfair to blame them for the credits being changed on something they did not authorise.

They are official products a very real sense. People cannot just publish a book of Eagles songs. They have to secure a licensing agreement with whoever owns the publishing rights, which in this case is Eagles, Ltd. or whatever the equivalent legal entity is nowadays... When the above publishers publish the songs, in the form of a book or through a magazine, the Eagles are making money off of them.

The idea that the owner of the publishing rights would not bother to specify the song-writing credits in such an agreement is hard for me to believe; they're too important. Given that Guitar World went through the exercise once before HFO which resulted in the original credits and once after HFO which resulted in the modified credits, I think there is good evidence that the terms of the publishing rights changed in the proximity of HFO.

If somebody can point me to published music of Hotel California that has a copyright after HFO and the original credits, I would be interested in seeing it.

[Turf]

The person whose name goes first doesn't automatically get paid more. The order of names doesn't affect anyone's "livelihood" one way or the other. Rather, it's a matter of pride. It's not about money; it's about ego.

I wouldn't say it's solely ego. There is (is this case and often) an element of communicating relative contribution. If you wrote a book or an academic paper where you had one or more coauthors who made small - but nonetheless significant - contributions, is it only ego which allows for your name to be listed first and perhaps most prominently? Certainly, it's a factor, but I think there's more to it than that.

Not that ego is inconsequential - as has been mentioned before, Yoko Ono got upset when Paul McCartney tried to put his name first on some of the songs he and John Lennon wrote together. She felt that it lessened Lennon somehow, even though there was no financial consequence and Paul actually did write the lion's share of the songs he wanted changed. She thought it didn't matter whether or not Paul contributed more than Lennon on that particular song; in her mind (and the mind of many Beatles fans) Lennon's name should always go first because that was how it was originally.

The thing that some people seem to be losing sight of in this discussion (I don't mean you, sodascouts) is that what ultimately matters is the arrangement that the contributors agreed to. Yes, some bands choose to list their names alphabetically, some choose to use a pre-defined order, and commonly, some choose to have the order represent relative contribution. Just because all of these scenarios exist doesn't mean that they are interchangeable for a given band.

The Eagles are interesting in that they have a hybrid approach. Henley and Frey appear to use a convention when their names appear together, otherwise the order represents relative contribution.

There are a couple of noteworthy points about the Lennon/McCartney situation. First off, their original order was one of convention, not relative contribution. When McCartney changed the order, he was effectively changing it to represent relative contribution. Second, Paul claims that John would be okay with the reversal, a position which he has good evidence to support since John had been aware of the Wings album from the seventies which included some Beatles' songs where Paul had reversed the credits.

The key point here is that changing from "convention" to "relative contribution" is significantly different compared to changing from one "relative contribution" to another "relative contribution."

[VAisForEagleLovers]

They are official products a very real sense. People cannot just publish a book of Eagles songs. They have to secure a licensing agreement with whoever owns the publishing rights, which in this case is Eagles, Ltd. or whatever the equivalent legal entity is nowadays... When the above publishers publish the songs, in the form of a book or through a magazine, the Eagles are making money off of them.

The idea that the owner of the publishing rights would not bother to specify the song-writing credits in such an agreement is hard for me to believe; they're too important. Given that Guitar World went through the exercise once before HFO which resulted in the original credits and once after HFO which resulted in the modified credits, I think there is good evidence that the terms of the publishing rights changed in the proximity of HFO.

If somebody can point me to published music of Hotel California that has a copyright after HFO and the original credits, I would be interested in seeing it.

I do not do songbooks and such, so I have nothing with which to contribute to that aspect of it, but as I said, the publishers list is different than the songwriting credit list, and it would be easy for a third party to list songwriting credits in the same order as the publishing, since that is what they are most involved with, having to pay.

Again, I'll also say that just because things are agreed to and licensed, etc, doesn't mean the final product is actually right. Having a responsibility to ensure things are correct doesn't mean they are. I'm still confounded by there being two different orders on the credit for Hole in the World. Was it a mistake that was corrected in a later printing? Who knows? For the people typing it in, it's just a job that has to be done between 9am and 5pm.

ETA: I should mention that even on the original vinyl of HC (the album), Long Run Publishing (or whatever the name was) is listed before Fingers Publishing. When Long Run dissolved, it because the two, Cass County and Red Cloud and as far as I can tell, always in that order. The individual songs do not list the publishers on the album.

[EaglesKiwi]

Also, errors do happen even on official stuff - my copy of Henley's Live Inside Job didn't even get one of the song titles correct!!

[zeldabjr]

Well, I don't understand why it bothers you on ICTYW & it doesn't bother you on Hotel California? Just sayin' It's the same situation...Obviously that would bother Don Felder

it all bothers me yes...I'm just more sensitive to it when it's TBS...he's my favorite...not Don Felder...if Don Felder were my favorite...it would bother me more about that song I guess...that's just how my mind works...

[Topkat]

it all bothers me yes...I'm just more sensitive to it when it's TBS...he's my favorite...not Don Felder...if Don Felder were my favorite...it would bother me more about that song I guess...that's just how my mind works...

What does having a favorite have anything to do with it? It is the principle of rearranging the names on a song that we are talking about here, not Timothy or Felder??

If anything, it makes a bigger difference on Hotel California, being that is one of the Eagles most famous, if not THE most famous song the Eagles are known for.
I am just as much a fan of Timothy as you are, and for much longer, so I just really don't get it???but whatever??

[zeldabjr]

I said it all bothers me...

[EagleLady]

TopKat, no offense but you come across as confrontational in that post.