Why I no longer am happy with my favorite band

[sodascouts]

It is apparent to me that this discussion has devolved into disrespect on both sides and there have been intolerant attitudes expressed by more than one person. The thread doesn't appear to be very productive at this point, honestly.

Indeed, I am quite dismayed at the turn this thread has taken. It seems to have become a bash-fest. That's not what this board is about.

To those who don't appreciate Vector's viewpoint, I recommend you simply avoid this thread rather than argue with him. You are accomplishing nothing except feeding into the drama. If you do wish to engage Vector, do so in a polite manner. There is no need to be snarky and unpleasant.

Vector, you are starting to repeat yourself, and you recently have lost much of the respectful, thoughtful manner that I initially appreciated. Basically, you are saying the same things as before, only less politely. I would hate to see this trajectory continue. I know it is difficult when people don't agree with you or point out errors in your facts/logic, but getting insulting never helps matters. If you want to become a contributor to this community in any meaningful way, you must avoid that. You also might investigate finding a new horse to ride; after more than 13 pages of increasingly inflammatory circular discussion, I believe this one is dead and no longer needs to be beaten.

One more note: I daresay I am a rather literate person. Still, I use the term "diss" regularly and without compunction. Vector, I'm not sure of your age, but nowadays most do not label the slang of a certain group of people "ignorant"; in fact, a variety of groups feel comfortable using it. Be careful before you make such harsh pronouncements as "ignorant" and "ghetto" when referring to the words people use. Some might find that rather offensive - where I live, in Memphis, calling something "ghetto" is a very racially charged insult. Let's just say few would applaud it as "respectful."

ETA: Please do not feel compelled to reply to me.

[Vector]

I am very busy today, so it will take some time to finish catching up like I've been trying to do.

To those who think I am being redundant, understand that I try to respond to everyone, it has just taken this long to catch up on 12 of the 14 pages.
Also have no fears about insults directed toward me. I do not encourage it as civil discourse is always better than insults, but I am a guy with thick skin, so no worries on that front.

I did want to quickly share something I never expected to find, and it relates to the following exchange between Houston and myself;

Why would they have both Randy and Tim?!

I'll answer your question with a question. Why not?!

One of the things you have to give the Eagles is they were not some boy band put together because of looks, dancing, and maybe an ability to sing. All of them are great singers and musicians. So if one played bass guitar, the other could be playing an acoustic and visa versa. I'd also love to hear both Meisner and Schmit singing together since both of their voices are incredible. Just imagine the harmonies of those two combined with the others.

In doing my general research last night, I came across this gem. Meisner & Schmit fans will really appreciate this, as should we all.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu8g3NTfpTs[/ame]

[HiredHand]

I say we just enjoy the music and go about our day.

[RebeccaLovesEagles]

cool video

[Vector]

I know a couple of posters have said I am not as unbiased as my OP claims. For instance a post now gone missing by sad-cafe, which to paraphrase said about me;
"watch him turn out to be a Felder Freak".


The first thing I'd say in reply to you is, watch it newbie, I've been here longer!


In all seriousness, I was about an open book as could be when I started this quest. Heck I didn't even know Felders name, much less be a huge fan. Sure I loved the guitar riffs, but they could have been done by Frey for all I knew. Remember most of my knowledge of the Eagles was listening to them on the radio, not seeing any footage on TV. Even when I did see them, I didn't have a clue who was who name wise.
Being a guy, I didn't pay attention to their looks, so Meisner could have been the drum player for all I knew. All I cared about before was they created some great music, and like a bunch of fools, broke up when they were still making hit records.


Now on to bigger fish to fry.

I watched the documentary multiple times. Soda is right.

Incorrect


Just as I thought, I watched the Doc again now that it is back on Showtime and my DVR is working.
Right after Frey does his British accent describing what Johns said about the Eagles not being a R&R band like the Who, about the 57-58 minute mark, L=eadon is speaking and he says word for word the following (emphasis added to key wording)


"After each of those records the band freaked out and said we've made a huge mistake - Glyn Johns missed it"


So I was correct, not Soda.


Now the goal is to prove it to you, without you taking it in some negative/emotional way. Lets see how well I do;


My initial comment that started the disagreement in the OP was this about Frey;


Despite two successful albums and a 3rd in the works, he is the main guy to butt heads with Glyn Johns.


Then Soda in post 9 replied


"While Glenn was definitely the main guy butting heads with Glyn Johns at the outset, when Desperado flopped, even Bernie - who was Johns' favorite - was saying "Glyn Johns missed it."


My reply in post 44 (with my emphasis added on the key parts)


As to the Bernie comment, you certainly got the wording correct, but I was under the impression he was saying the band had felt "that Johns had missed it", not specifically himself. I'd need to go back and listen to it again to be sure.


To which Soda replied in post 48


You may wish to believe that Bernie was expressing band sentiments and not his own with his statement "Glyn Johns missed it";
I think that belief is difficult to support.


My reply in post 52


As to the comment, I said I was not sure, and needed to go back and see if L-eadon was referring to himself making the comment, or if it was the overall bands feeling.

So, there is irrefutable/verifiable proof that you are incorrect in saying Soda was right. Let's see if you can acknowledge such without getting emotional or attaching some underlying meaning.


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On a side note, I've started to read To The Limit and it seems like a well written book. I am not sure how much it will effect my perception of the band at this point, but I am eager to find out. I should be done by this weekend, and possibly come up with some conclusions by then.





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[sodascouts]

How about instead of HD I reply to my own statement that you feel is incorrect?

Challenging HD to acknowledge you were right when she didn't even make the original comment seems unnecessarily confrontational. Certainly it is not in the "respectful" spirit I was hoping my above post would encourage.

Sad-cafe's post is no longer there because she agreed that it was too personal. We don't like that kind of thing here. The fact that you "paraphrase" it anyway instead of letting it go despite the fact that original poster agreed to its removal is another move that seems designed to provoke confrontation.

Anyway, you quoted me as stating:

"You may wish to believe that Bernie was expressing band sentiments and not his own with his statement "Glyn Johns missed it";
I think that belief is difficult to support."

You bolded the words you thought were essential, but you (accidentally?) neglected to bold one very important word... AND.

That little word "and" is at the heart of my meaning: that the sentiments are not those of everyone else in the band BUT Bernie. They are the sentiments of everyone else in the band AND Bernie.

What I've been saying, and what I was saying there if you recall the context, is that it's difficult to support your belief that Bernie felt differently from the rest of the band about leaving Johns. You still can't support that - not from what's been presented. Bernie was expressing BOTH the band sentiments AND his own from every indication.

Bernie never says "the band except for me freaked out" or anything along those lines which would express his disagreement. He says "The band freaked out." There is no reason to believe he is not including his own sentiments when he is expressing band sentiments. He was a band member, after all!

Thus, you have yet to prove that Bernie felt differently from the rest of the band. I'm afraid your self-congratulations are a bit premature.

Congrats on your DV-R fortuitously working again.

[Vector]

How about instead of HD I reply to my own statement that you feel is incorrect?

You are welcome to do so as you did, which has nothing to do with "HD" responding as well.

Challenging HD to acknowledge you were right when she didn't even make the original comment seems unnecessarily confrontational. Certainly it is not in the "respectful" spirit I was hoping my above post would encourage.

I disagree with your characterization. If a fellow forum member essentially tells another the information is accurate/inaccurate, then they should account for such when the evidence is presented.

Furthermore, I believe HD has gone out of their way to try to undermine my credibility since she does not care for my view on certain things related to members of the Eagles. That is fine by me, and I do not take it personally. However facts are facts, and I am going to point out such things when they can be proved.
I liken it to a clique that rallies behind a fellow member, against a perceived outsider. Any potential flaw in the outsiders view is attacked to discredit them, while the clique member is given a pass.

Sad-cafe's post is no longer there because she agreed that it was too personal. We don't like that kind of thing here. The fact that you "paraphrase" it anyway instead of letting it go despite the fact that original poster agreed to its removal is another move that seems designed to provoke confrontation.

First of all, I had no idea who removed it, nor why. Again it did not bother me, so I see no reason to remove how they felt, as they are certainly entitled to their opinion. I actually used it as a means to razz them a little about being here less time than my vast time here is. Hence the
I also wanted to point out how I did not come into this forum as a Felder fan since I didn't even know who he was. I think that is a fair reason to reply.

Anyway, you quoted me as stating:

You bolded the words you thought were essential, but you (accidentally?) neglected to bold one very important word... AND.

That little word "and" is at the heart of my meaning: that the sentiments are not those of everyone else in the band BUT Bernie. They are the sentiments of everyone else in the band AND Bernie.

What I've been saying, and what I was saying there if you recall the context

Maybe that was your main point, but it was not mine. I never implied L-eadon was against it, just considered that he might not have been as eager since Johns wanted them to stay more country. By all accounts, that was where L-eadons mindset was as well. So while I can concede I don't know exactly what was going on in his head, he used specific words which you called into question.
The implication was he was speaking about his view, not the band. Where as I said he was specifically saying "the band felt", not speaking for himself alone. A slight distinction maybe, but an important one from an exact verbiage standpoint.
There is no need to belabor the issue with each other since it is now apparent we were focused on different points.


Congrats on your DV-R fortuitously working again.

Actually I got hit with a double problem all at once. I had it recorded on my DVR, and it fried out. That however was not the only problem. When the new DVR was delivered it of course was empty.
So I not only lost all my recordings, but when I went to watch it in the Showtime On Demand section, it was no longer playing.
It only was put back on this week, hence me being able to re-watch it.

I would have no way of knowing, but I wonder if the released DVD's have any more footage than what is playing on Showtime?



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[Scarlet Sun]

one thing to keep in mind is who produced the Bernie Leadon - Michael Georgiades Band album

[pueblo47]

"I would have no way of knowing, but I wonder if the released DVD's have any more footage than what is playing on Showtime?"

Other than the 30+ minute bonus dvd of the concert from March 21, 1977, it appeared the same as it was on Showtime. To me anyway. Too bad the entire show wasn't released.

[Vector]

one thing to keep in mind is who produced the Bernie Leadon - Michael Georgiades Band album

I still need to catch up on a few other posts before this one, but it intrigued me to look it up.
Sure enough Johns produced L-eadon.
So it does help to lend credibility to my thought about L-eadon being the least likely to have wanted to leave Johns.
Still while I was correct about the exact wording in the Doc regarding what L-eadon actually said, there is no way of knowing how he personally felt, because it was not addressed.

I am currently reading To The Limit so maybe there is something in there about it. Anyone know if my conjecture about L-eadon has ever been put to print anywhere?