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Thread: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

  1. #11
    Border Rebel tjh532's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    Not just the supermodel look ,but also the shock factor. That's how you end up with crap like the Miley Cyrus/Robin Thicke train wreck. How people can sit and watch that and think it's entertainment in beyond me. But that started back in the 80's with Madonna, or really you could go back to Elvis. Sex sells, unfortunately, no one leaves anything to the imagination anymore.

  2. #12
    Out on the Border rick endres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    Yeah - they censored Elvis when he did his swivel-hipped thing (and I'm sorry to confess that not only did I see the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, I also saw Elvis on Ed's show when I was in kindergarten). That was NOTHING compared to what happens now.

    And something else that bugs me - what constitutes a "song" nowadays. Beyonce - supposedly - wrote 70+ "songs" for her latest CD. Really?! Cut me some slack! 70+ fragments of "Oooo, Baby, Oooo, Baby,Oooo, Baby," *ahem!* "lyrics" backed by beats and snippets of samples. And if you check the songwriting credits on most of these supermodel singers' songs, there are usually four or five names listed along with the star's.

    Guess who did the bulk of the "writing" - if you can even call it that...

    The Eagles agonized and sweated over their songs. They strove for perfection and usually came really close. That's why it took so long to record an album, and why the results were so memorable and satisfying.

    70+ songs...give me a break!
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  3. #13
    Moderator Brooke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    I can only agree with everything you all are saying! So much of today's 'music' will never be remembered. No way does it compare to music from the '70's that we are listening to still, 40 years later!
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  4. #14
    Border Desperado ktdids's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    Quote Originally Posted by rick endres View Post
    Yeah - they censored Elvis when he did his swivel-hipped thing (and I'm sorry to confess that not only did I see the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, I also saw Elvis on Ed's show when I was in kindergarten). That was NOTHING compared to what happens now.

    And something else that bugs me - what constitutes a "song" nowadays. Beyonce - supposedly - wrote 70+ "songs" for her latest CD. Really?! Cut me some slack! 70+ fragments of "Oooo, Baby, Oooo, Baby,Oooo, Baby," *ahem!* "lyrics" backed by beats and snippets of samples. And if you check the songwriting credits on most of these supermodel singers' songs, there are usually four or five names listed along with the star's.

    Guess who did the bulk of the "writing" - if you can even call it that...

    The Eagles agonized and sweated over their songs. They strove for perfection and usually came really close. That's why it took so long to record an album, and why the results were so memorable and satisfying!

    70+ songs...give me a break!
    I see I'm not the only one who thinks the quality of writing leaves much to be desired these days! I had the exact same conversation about soul music from back in the day, to what constitutes soul music today. The ache and suffering that someone like Marvin Gaye brought to the song, vs the moaning and groaning found on some of the stuff today, I'd rather listen to Marvin.

    As for those 70+ songs, go talk to Carole King, James Taylor, the Beatles, Billy Joel and friends about writing songs.

  5. #15
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    So many songs are written by committee now, too. It depersonalizes it.

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  6. #16
    Border Desperado SoaringRockyMountainWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    I totally agree with everyone. Today's music is not really music. It doesn't have any meaningful lyrics or memorable guitar riffs. My friends at school say that they think all of today's artists are talented. I shake my head thinking, not true. Some pop "lyrics" don't even make sense. It seems like I'm the only teenager who listens to oldies all the time and cranks up the Eagles before I go to bed every night. The Eagles are TRUE music!
    People talking about us they got nothing else to do. When it all comes down we will still come through in the long run.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    For me most of today's pop fluff is just that. There is a lot of flash and no substance. As JW would say, it's too perfected. Autotune, drum loops, pitch correction. It's taken the human element out of the music. It's sterile. And lets not forget how physical image has overtaken music and as long as you look the part, they can make the voice "good" by the computer. It's all about looks these days and image and cheesy lyrics. Gone IMO are the days of good pop music and good mainstream music. You have to go underground to find music that really has substance.

    I'll probably get flamed for it but the Bieber's, Cyrus's, Swift's, and whatnot of the world will probably not last the test of time IMO... I hate to put Taylor Swift in that category but I get so sick of her writing a song about every breakup and every person to rub her wrong and her attitude. She still has some growing up to do. And the whole drama act she does. Bieber to me is a celebrity thug. Sounds harsh but it's true IMO. If he weren't famous he'd be in jail right now. And Cyrus is just going through a "any press is good press" and crazy phase to try to gain attention.

    The days of great chops and being all about the music are on their way out, if not "Already Gone". Call me a classic rock purist if you wish but we'll see how this music fares against the classics in another decade.

    WF- I for one, will not flame you over your opinion of Bieber, Swift or Cyrus. I feel like I am in the minority as don't feel any of these three have real staying power and its a shame they get so much attention as it is.

    What struck me most was your comments about Swift. I was thinking about how I recently had the opportunity to visit the Rock N Roll hall of fame and on display were the original handwritten lyrics from songs written by U2, Billy Joel and Simon and Garfunkel just to name a few. To me, seeing those handwritten lyrics on a regular piece of paper was such a powerful experience, knowing that millions of people had heard those songs and what those songs could mean in people's lives is very profound. I am not sure my thoughts would go in the same direction if I saw lyrics to a Swift song for example.

  8. #18
    Out on the Border rick endres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    Original handwritten lyrics by U2, Billy Joel, and Simon & Garfunkel.

    Wow.

    Those are some real heavyweights. I’ve always written lead sheets with lyrics and chords on a legal pad and was thrilled to hear that one of my idols, Don Henley, did the same thing. Not comparing myself to Don or any of the aforementioned geniuses; just saying that I realized I was in great company.

    Handwritten; that’s so organic. And that’s what was so RIGHT about all of that great music from the past. There was an organic, human touch that is lacking now. There’s no substance to today’s alleged lyrics. It really IS fluff (I have a stronger word for it but won’t use it here). There are a handful of really good groups and artists out there today, but with the exception of Lady Antebellum, none of them sell 1/100th of the CDs that Bieber, Cyrus and Swift do.

    The drek is taking over the world.

    And the “looks” issue. There was a very talented singer/songwriter named Phoebe Snow back in the ‘70’s. She wrote great songs, had a beautiful voice and was an accomplished acoustic guitarist.

    She was also slightly overweight and wore thick glasses – definitely not supermodel material.

    Phoebe Snow couldn’t get arrested today.

    And there’s the shame in it…
    Last edited by rick endres; 03-12-2014 at 03:05 PM.
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  9. #19
    Border Desperado ktdids's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    I volunteer tutoring for the SAT, and to get my kids interested in reading, which every kid I come across seems to hate doing for this exam, I tried using the lyrics to Hotel California to give them a feel for evocative writing. They got the sense of dark mystery and danger from just reading it as poetry, which gave me a real kick! Then I told them to go pull up the song and see how the words and music together made a picture for them in their head! I wondered if a more current song would have been more relatable for them, but I wasn't sure there was much I could find that would fit what I needed it to do with the kids.

  10. #20
    Border Desperado Islander canuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Short-term mass popularity vs. Long-term relevence

    Quote Originally Posted by ktdids View Post
    I volunteer tutoring for the SAT, and to get my kids interested in reading, which every kid I come across seems to hate doing for this exam, I tried using the lyrics to Hotel California to give them a feel for evocative writing. They got the sense of dark mystery and danger from just reading it as poetry, which gave me a real kick! Then I told them to go pull up the song and see how the words and music together made a picture for them in their head! I wondered if a more current song would have been more relatable for them, but I wasn't sure there was much I could find that would fit what I needed it to do with the kids.
    Hey ktdids ths kind of reminds me of an assignment my Englshi 11 class did in which the teacher asked the students to bring song lyrics and/or peoms for the class to anylize. He then potocopied what we brought in so each of us had a copy. The two songs I remeber deing in the packet were Get Over It by the Eagles and Beyond the Wall by Pink Floyd.

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