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Thread: The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

  1. #171
    Administrator sodascouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    Again, as I said in my last post - you do need to be present in conversation, in the place you are at, and mindful. But the other side needs to be respectful about how they go about showing their disdain for people. Otherwise we may just not go to dinner with you anymore and may remove the hassle altogether, and instead choose to sit at home and eat and yep - use our phone
    Oh my gosh, this is such a sad statement, and you don't even realize it!

    This is what I worry about. That people are so attached to their phones that if their friend has a problem with it, they would rather sever the friendship than try to work out their phone issues.... and wind up sitting alone at home with their phones 24/7... and not even realize they've lost something important.

    You talk about a huge generation gap, but I'm in the generation that gets technology. I'm in that transitional generation - old enough to remember what it was like before the internet, young enough to love my smart phone and use it every day just like you do. My generation invented smart phones, texting, and social media. We were the first ones to use it and popularize it. I was using AOL message boards and AIM (AOL Instant Messaging) in the 90s. I was using Facebook when the site was only open to college students. But maybe this dual perspective allows me to understand that both have value and that you can't completely disconnect from the people physically around you in favor of the digital world. You need both.

    How about this: "I don't agree with my friend and I think his attitude about phones is over the top, but I value my friendship with him. I'll humor him and put away my phone for 60 minutes while we eat." Is it really too high a price to pay?

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  2. #172
    Stuck on the Border WalshFan88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

    I should clarify. I still think there is a generation gap, but I'm not saying everyone is like that. I personally believe there is a big gap between generations, the biggest being between the baby boomers and the Gen Y/millennials. Some boomers tend to think we are worthless. That's fine.

    Maybe my statement was a bit harsh and probably reactionary about not going to dinner (I was a bit upset at the time of posting by this idea that people who use phones at dinner are so bad), but it's just as sad to me to see older people chastise the younger generation for anything. They usually follow it up with "well if they didn't do X or they started doing X again they wouldn't get blowback". No, how about it's not up to you to decide what we do! We are different than our ancestors. And I find that to be wonderful! If I criticize them for being ancient with their thinking or their antics, they'd tear me to ribbons - and that's what they need to remember about attacking young people. Respect your elders, sure, but they can also respect us. Just because you are a certain age doesn't mean I give you unconditional respect. As with any age, that is earned. I'm not going to put up with your attitude just because you are a senior citizen. If people give me crap, they should expect to receive it back. That goes for all ages, genders, and walks of life. You reap what you sow. If you want to go to dinner, I will try to not use my phone and only use it when I feel it's right and not be glued to it. And similarly, I insist that you try to be cordial and also present in conversation. It works both ways, IMO, Soda.

    Soda, while I agree it isn't too much of a price to pay, I also expect the other side to not say anything if I happen to glance at it out of habit without even touching the damn thing. It's a balance. To me the anti-phone people can be pretty exhausting to be around and I think if I'm going to go without my phone, which I will, you also best be present and engage in conversation. I'm not saying I would do what I said in that quote, but the people who don't like the technology and stuff need to be respectful too and realize that time moves on, and that being stuck in the past is annoying to younger people, just as much as they are annoyed by us. However we can learn to keep that to ourselves and just put it all aside.

    Quite frankly people are so judgmental these days and especially older people that if I'm going to put in the time and investment to go eat with an anti-phone"r" (when I truly am happy eating alone or with someone else who thinks like me and is cool with phones), if you rake me over the coals about ANYTHING, that will be the last time until I receive an apology from whoever it is. I will compromise. Is that too much to ask? Surely not. It's all about balance and compromise. I refuse to do my part only to have someone give me crap anyway or to not hold up their end of the deal.
    -Austin-
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    #NOGLENNNOEAGLES

    RIP Glenn Lewis Frey 1948-2016
    "People don't run out of dreams, people just run out of time"



  3. #173
    Stuck on the Border WalshFan88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

    I really wish social interactions weren't this difficult. I wish society was different. I'm afraid more and more people will become hermit crabs and stay by themselves, and when something does happen to the internet or power grid, we are pretty much screwed. I think a lot of people favor online interaction simply because people can't get along anymore. And if someone is a jerk, it's very easy to completely erase them from your online life. Not so easy to do with Bob down the street. Be it the political climate, the generational divide, whatever - it's pretty bad. Some people are going to say "people are offended so easily anymore" or "I hate PC". To me I say, no, people got tired of taking it, and now they are revolting. Good on them.
    -Austin-
    Resident Guitar Slinger
    Fan of the Eagles 1972-2016
    #NOGLENNNOEAGLES

    RIP Glenn Lewis Frey 1948-2016
    "People don't run out of dreams, people just run out of time"



  4. #174
    Moderator Ive always been a dreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

    Austin - I think you make some valid points, but are over-generalizing both sides of the issue. I may have posted this before, but one personal incident that always sticks in my mind is when two of my nieces wanted me to invite the family over my house for dinner because they didn't get to see each other often enough. So I did, and what happens? The same two nieces are sitting in the family room with everyone and all this conversion going back and forth and what are they doing - they are sitting there with their phones texting one another and totally disengaged from the family. So, call me crabby if you want, but you better believe I said something to them. As others have said - it's about common courtesy and social interaction.

    I will only make a couple of more points about this ...

    First, if you want to change things in this world, you don't do it by withdrawing from society - you make it happen by uniting and collaborating with other people.

    Secondly, I promise you, as you get older, your perspectives change and new things will come along that you will think are not for the betterment of society.

    "People don't run out of dreams: People just run out of time ..."
    Glenn Frey 11/06/1948 - 01/18/2016

  5. #175
    Stuck on the Border WalshFan88's Avatar
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    Default Re: The issue of Phone camera's and other issues in concert

    I think it just drives home it's all about perspective and what your background is and how you were raised, etc. Your nieces probably didn't realize it would bother you, but because you are from a different time and come from a different raising or values about ethics/morals/manners/etiquette - it bothered you. In that case, I'd have to say neither side was wrong, JMO. This goes back to the whole division thing. I will say I think the anti-phone side has a legit point too, but they are also shifting some of the blame at the same time. One side is not guiltier than the other. I'm willing to compromise, but they need to back down some.

    Again, I must say - I'm all for collaborating and social interaction Dreamer, but if I'm doing my part and complying with their demands (I mean requests!), I expect the other side of the aisle to do their part too and try to be amicable. That seems to be missed here. I have a huge problem with people who insist on us doing something, and we can't tell them to do the same (AKA, quit whining about how we do things differently). As I've said a couple of times now - I'll put my phone down for an hour and eat with you, but there better be equal amount of effort on your part to make it worth my while and be kind. You better be present, a good listener, and a good conversationalist. IE, you don't get to make all the rules and I have to follow them. I get to set some conditions as well. I feel like if someone is going to tell me not to do something or how to do something, I get to tell you the same thing, and tell you not to do something you do (complain) or to do something (be present and worth my time, energy, and frankly $). That's all I ask.

    I think the anti-phone or anti-millennial side is every bit as guilty as we are. They like to "parent" us. They also see theirselves as authority figures over us, when IMO, they cease to exist after you are 18 or so and the only parents you need are the ones who brought you into the world. I'm a big believer of BYOB - be your own boss. But that's a whole other kettle of fish I won't get in to which is likely to cause even more controversy here among the spectrum of viewpoints, and again, is a product of how I view things with a very modern and young lens. Again, I'm willing to compromise. But that requires your effort, too. That's fair.

    The only parting comment I will say is this. Yes, you have the right to want your dinner company to be present and in the moment with you. But, the people who perhaps have different views have the right to not be dragged through the mud for them. Sure, the answer is not to withdraw from society. That's clear. But that's exactly what will happen if one side of the equation keeps going for the jugular of the other side. It may not solve anything, but it's frankly less headaches for us, and we aren't having to listen to things that hurt us and are blatantly disrespectful. Even if it's not a resolution of the issue, I'm personally going to choose the path of least resistance. I get easily hurt, and I will withdraw if that's what it takes to keep my sanity. I'll try to be social and collaborative, but after taking several verbal beatings, I'm going to have to bow out, at least for awhile. Maybe because I was bullied and I was tolerant and I let them keep doing it until I was on the brink of suicide that I react the way I do and see things the way I do. Maybe it's true, the younger generation isn't as tough as the older generation. Maybe we are more sensitive. Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing. Feelings matter! The bottom line: if you are going to criticize me, you best be perfect yourself. Otherwise don't go crying when we finally choose to stand up for ourselves. I think that is more than fair to ask, and if that's too much to ask maybe it's time to take a good long look in the mirror.

    Disclaimer - when I am saying "you", I mean the people who think the way I'm describing and not anyone on here in particular. I'm only referring to Dreamer's incident in the first paragraph.
    -Austin-
    Resident Guitar Slinger
    Fan of the Eagles 1972-2016
    #NOGLENNNOEAGLES

    RIP Glenn Lewis Frey 1948-2016
    "People don't run out of dreams, people just run out of time"



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