Who do you guys side with? Felder or Henley/Frey?

[UndertheWire]

When putting together the group, getting on together doesn't seem to have the highest priority. I was going to post a quote from Glenn but there are so many that I'll just post a link.
http://www.glennfreyonline.com/quotes/band.htm

[Jonny Come Lately]

What I've learned from recent comments is that this was a band that was always breaking up, and then a little time would pass and they'd start calling their manager and ask "Are we back together again?"

What I don't get then is why did they form in the first place if it was always going to cause a shitstorm in the recording studio? I mean most groups tend to be tight knight for years before something goes down. John Paul and George had been a fairly tight knit group of guys for ten years before the conflicts emerged around the time of the white album. Dave and Roger had been in the same band for seven years before they finally started arguing around the time of Wish You Were Here. Led Zeppelin probably would have kept recording/touring if Bonzo hadn't OD'd.

I hate to say this, but I fear that it was only John Bonham's death that prevented an ugly fall out between Jimmy Page and Robert Plant akin to that between Roger Waters and David Gilmour. I know Jimmy was not crazy about some of the music on In Through The Out Door, and publically stated his reservations about songs such as All My Love (which carries great personal meaning to Robert as it's about the death of his son), and that he wanted to make another heavy rock album (more like Presence). Plant's subsequent solo work suggests he felt he was done with this style of music and therefore I think there would have been musical clash in addition to any tensions between the two men. Even without Bonham's tragic death, I don't think the band would have come close to surviving the 1980s. Just my thoughts, I absolutely love Led Zeppelin (FWIW I think they were showing signs of decline in the late 1970s and actually ended up breaking up around the right time).

The Eagles IMO are not directly comparable to bands like The Beatles, as they were a group of young men who by happy coincidence found themselves in the same place at the same time, rather than a group of friends from the same city who formed a band together. They do have a bit more in common with Pink Floyd actually - there were two distinct 'circles' in the band's formation, of which Roger was a member of both. He knew Syd Barrett (who also knew David Gilmour, who wasn't an original member) from Cambridge, whereas he met Rick Wright and Nick Mason in London at the then Regent Street Polytechnic. Not quite the same, but PF certainly weren't a 'four friends who played music together' band either.

[Elizasong]

I hate to say this, but I fear that it was only John Bonham's death that prevented an ugly fall out between Jimmy Page and Robert Plant akin to that between Roger Waters and David Gilmour. I know Jimmy was not crazy about some of the music on In Through The Out Door, and publically stated his reservations about songs such as All My Love (which carries great personal meaning to Robert as it's about the death of his son), and that he wanted to make another heavy rock album (more like Presence). Plant's subsequent solo work suggests he felt he was done with this style of music and therefore I think there would have been musical clash in addition to any tensions between the two men. Even without Bonham's tragic death, I don't think the band would have come close to surviving the 1980s. Just my thoughts, I absolutely love Led Zeppelin (FWIW I think they were showing signs of decline in the late 1970s and actually ended up breaking up around the right time).

The Eagles IMO are not directly comparable to bands like The Beatles, as they were a group of young men who by happy coincidence found themselves in the same place at the same time, rather than a group of friends from the same city who formed a band together. They do have a bit more in common with Pink Floyd actually - there were two distinct 'circles' in the band's formation, of which Roger was a member of both. He knew Syd Barrett (who also knew David Gilmour, who wasn't an original member) from Cambridge, whereas he met Rick Wright and Nick Mason in London at the then Regent Street Polytechnic. Not quite the same, but PF certainly weren't a 'four friends who played music together' band either.

Good observation JCL on Led Zepplin and Pink Floyd. I was just re-reading "To the Limit" by Marc Elliott. He mentions that a lot of the great pairings ( Lennon/Macartney, Jagger/Richards were a couple mentioned) were opposite personalities that produced great work for a while and then fractured. I think Henley and Frey would be another example but regardless the music history they left is unquestionable! Any former band members should appreciate the opportunity they had with the group. IMO when you bring legal action against your former bosses you aren't going to get a warm fuzzy feeling later on for any versions of reunions. It's better to enjoy what you have of your craft and move on. Unfortunately certain band members can't let it go.

[alreadygone]

I might add I looked into the parts available by google books in Felder's "Heaven and Hell" book and was something up with Randy? I mean is there a reason his family stayed in Nebraska (where he was originally from)? It sounds like he and his wife might have been semi-divorced for a long time (especially since he mentioned (probably with Randy's permission so as not to get sued) how he was sleeping with groupies.

[Mikeb71]

Hi all, new kid in town (bet I'm the first person to say that- groan) and I just read Felder's book. I've recently watched History again as well.

One thing I didn't see mentioned much in this thread is Felder's Eagles LTD contract. As far as I know, it was still binding, and entitled him to ask questions about financing, etc. I am no lawyer but I don't think the other two can just render that null and void. I think this contract is what helped him in his suit against the band, if I had to venture a guess.

That said, we don't have all the facts, but I hardly feel it was simply Felder that broke the band apart. Bernie left, Randy left...there was some serious discontent somewhere along the line.

I think when they terminated Don, he felt his only recourse was litigation.

Bottom line, we will probably never get the entire story from all perspectives. Being just as much a fan of Felder as I am of the rest of the guys, I won't take any sides. I do feel Felder had a reasonable reason to do what he did.

The good - we've still got those records to go back and listen to. They are not going anywhere.

[UndertheWire]

Hi Mike and welcome.

You'll probably find lots of discussion on contracts in the threads about Felder's book and the documentary - they're certainly long enough!

Thanks for putting your points so reasonably. I agree with you that asking to see the accounts seems a resonable request from a shareholder who is nominally the "Chief Financial Officer" and that after being fired, litigation was probably his only alternative to rolling over. However, we don't really know the reasons why he was fired. Based on his book, Felder seems to have been pretty unhappy for much of his time in the band so I can see that there would be other reasons behind his dismissal than just his request to see the accounts.

I don't see the departure of Bernie and Randy as indicating a particular problem within the band. Bernie lasted 4 years and Randy 6 years which is a long time for band members in that era. It may be the longest they've spent in any band. They both just reached a point where their goals in life didn't match those of the rest of the band.

[Mikeb71]

Thanks for the welcome!

Randy has said more than once he felt like a sideman, and let's face it - Glenn could be a bully. That's no secret. Bernie had issues with the direction of the music as well, so maybe that is all it was. He's been playing with them lately, so it seems he's ok now, and didn't leave on terrible terms, he just left. Felder killed any future involvement with the lawsuit.

I just can't quite discredit Felder based on several reports of how toxic the atmosphere in that band was. I'm a huge fan of Glenn - his songs are my absolute favorite Eagles tunes - but he was difficult. When you have him and Henley finally going at it, there is probably a problem in camp sunshine. Not everyone can deal with that kind of persona.

Like I alluded to before, the blame can be equally spread around. But it does seem to sort of point the biggest arrow at two people. But since I don't know all the facts, all I can do is wish things turned out differently, and keep listening to the music!

[tequila mockingbird]

Hi all, new kid in town (bet I'm the first person to say that- groan) and I just read Felder's book. I've recently watched History again as well.

One thing I didn't see mentioned much in this thread is Felder's Eagles LTD contract. As far as I know, it was still binding, and entitled him to ask questions about financing, etc. I am no lawyer but I don't think the other two can just render that null and void. I think this contract is what helped him in his suit against the band, if I had to venture a guess.

That said, we don't have all the facts, but I hardly feel it was simply Felder that broke the band apart. Bernie left, Randy left...there was some serious discontent somewhere along the line.

I think when they terminated Don, he felt his only recourse was litigation.

Bottom line, we will probably never get the entire story from all perspectives. Being just as much a fan of Felder as I am of the rest of the guys, I won't take any sides. I do feel Felder had a reasonable reason to do what he did.

The good - we've still got those records to go back and listen to. They are not going anywhere.

<<applause>> Well said! Welcome, mikeb71.

[jtdavis]

I never really had an opinion until I read Heaven and Hell. Felder certainly didn't do himself in favors with the book. It should have been called "Life in the Whining Lane". Over and over again he blames Henley and Frey for everything bad in his life, when in truth no one would have ever heard of him had it not been for them. Then his little pitty party for not being asked to perform on the Grammy Awards with the Frey tribute was the last straw. Even in Frey's death, Felder wanted his credit.

Interview wise, Felder comes across as a much more likeable person. He doesn't seem that bitter about things, and still gives Henley and Frey a lot of credit. Calls Henley maybe the greatest rock voice ever and credits them as incredible lyricists and songwriters.

DH and GF (especially GF) seem somewhat full of themselves when talking. Very bitter about things that happened years ago.

I understand why Don and Glenn felt they deserved a bigger slice. I don't understand why they change the order of names on a credit for a song or the need to call every shot.

Glenn did have more success than the others during the break up years, but it paled in comparison to Don's. So why doesn't Don get more money. I'd love to hear Glenn's response if someone asked him this. He might blow a blood vessel.

[UndertheWire]

The other day, as it was the anniversary of Tiger Jam, I went back to Heaven and Hell to see what Don had written about it. It took me a while to find it because his chronolgy is messed up and so I ended up reading about other events from that chapter. I was surprised at how negative it was when read in isolation and if it's a true reflection of how he was at that time, I think the band, especially Glenn, had good reason for not wanting to continue to work with him.

It's stuff like Glenn "grinning inanely" or describing how Glenn's "prize house mixer" had to be put to bed because he'd drunk too much. Or how when he meets JD after a long break, all we get is Don's insinuations that JD had had a face-lift.

The one I thought was unintentionally ironic was when he said about Glenn setting up a record label that failed despite the success of its first release by "my old friend, Max Carl". *

* Don tried to make a record with Max Carl and when they didn't get a record deal, gave up, blaming Azoff for having ulterior motives. Whereas Glenn made at least two records with Max. The first time - Jack Mack and the Heart Attack - Glenn got them a record deal, paid the studio costs and even bought instruments for the 10-piece band. The second time - Max Carl and Big Sound - Glenn set up his own record label and provided the studio, as well as co-producing, writing, singing and playing.

You can side with the guy who makes things happen or with the guy who blames others when they don't.

Of course, after writing this, I'm aware of that I'm being negative and I considered deleting everything I'd just written, but I think I'll leave it for now. However, it shows that reading his negative comments makes me feel negative and I can imagine how much worse that must be within a volatile band.