Page 1 of 30 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 297

Thread: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

  1. #1
    Stuck on the Border Jonny Come Lately's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Watching the hazy sun sinking in the sea in England
    Posts
    1,974

    Default The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    Introduction
    A while ago in another topic (the ‘Eagles Mentions In The Press’ thread) I mentioned the possibility of starting a game in this section which pits numerous legendary bands against each other in an attempt to determine which band is the best:

    https://eaglesonlinecentral.com/foru...t=225&page=232

    Obviously there is one band which I think would receive quite a lot of popular support on this forum and therefore it's definitely best that this band is excluded. I don't think I need to tell you which one (suffice to say they share their name with a bird of prey...)

    Having seen an earlier version on this game that was played on the forum a few years ago, well before I joined (there are links to the relevant thread on the page I previously linked to) I would say that my version is similar in some ways but different in others. I am less bothered about determining whether a band was influential or not, simply about their level of greatness and therefore while I think it definitely best that the Eagles are left out, I am more than happy to include The Beatles in the game. Also, unlike the earlier game I intend for each round to be split into individual ties or battles where you pick which band you think is better (or prefer) until you get to the grand final where the final two surviving bands are pitted against each other to determine the winner of the battle.

    I firmly believe that this game should focus solely on bands and not solo artists. I would include the likes of Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, Neil Young & Crazy Horse and even The Jimi Hendrix Experience in this as the more important name in those cases is the name of the singer. However, bands which are clearly dominated by one member, such as Dire Straits and Creedence Clearwater Revival, are as valid for inclusion as any other.

    Gameplay Format
    I intend for the game to feature 32 bands. I toyed with the idea of more but I felt that once I got beyond 40 bands it became more difficult to ensure that the artists remained sufficiently legendary, while 32 is enough to include more than just the most obvious bands.

    In summary, I think there should be five rounds where the number of bands is halved in each round, following this format. This shows the number of ties in each round and how the number of bands will eventual dwindle to just the final two.
    Round 1 – 32 bands -> 16 bands (16 ties; 2 rounds of 8 ties)
    Round 2 – 16 bands -> 8 bands (8 ties; 2 rounds of 4 ties)
    Quarter Final – 8 bands -> 4 bands (4 ties)
    Semi Final – 4 bands -> 2 bands (2 ties)
    Final – 2 bands -> WINNER!

    I’m also quite tempted to include a third place play-off round, which would round off the podium by giving a bronze medal winner alongside the winning band and the runner up, but if I do this I will probably run it at the same time as the final.

    There will be some differences between rounds as clearly the number of ties will decrease throughout the game.
    First round (32) – The 32 bands will enter the draw where I will randomly draw bands against each other. There will be 16 matches or ties in total, of which eight will be done at the same time (so there will be two sets of ties in this round). If the two bands in a match get the same number of votes, I will allow an extension to deadline for that match alone and the next vote will win (‘sudden death’). If no one votes in the next day then I may have to give myself a second vote or else it’s down to tossing a coin... fingers crossed this doesn’t happen.
    Second round (16) – The draw is made in the same way as for the first round. There are eight ties, again in two sets (four at a time). However, this time, if the two bands in a tie receive the same number of votes, the band which received more votes in the previous round will win. If they got the same number of votes in the 1st round as well, sudden death will again applied.
    Quarter-Final ( - Four ties, with all ties taking place at the same time from this point on. Rules otherwise as before.
    Semi-Final (4) – Two ties, which will be run simultaneously. Down to just four bands with the winners entering the final.
    Final (2) – And then there two. The two survivors face each other in the showdown to declare the victor.

    WINNER – TBC!

    I will allow a couple of days for you to vote in each round, I think this works well in the Survivor games so I will use the same approach.

    If you strongly dislike both bands in a pairing, or simply don’t care who wins one particular match (but feel strongly about other matches), by all means abstain from voting in that tie if you intend to vote on the other matches in the round.

    If you are familiar with the FA Cup in English football (soccer), or a similar sporting cup competition, then my idea for this game is fairly similar, with bands drawn against each other in the same way that different teams are drawn against each other in the cup, with the winner proceeding to the next round. I mentioned the FA Cup specifically because it is famous for not 'seeding' teams against each other which means that two big teams can play each other in the early rounds. For example, I have seen my favourites Liverpool face our arch rivals Manchester United in the third round in the last five years - this fixture is one of the biggest in English football and TV promoters would prefer this clash to be in the high profile final than at an early stage which means one of these big names will have to be eliminated there and then.

    Likewise, using this system with the draw being made randomly (I have identified a couple of methods of ensuring a random draw) means that there is nothing to stop, for instance, The Beatles from facing The Rolling Stones in the first round, with clear parallels with the early round Liverpool-Manchester United match. I admit this is potentially quite controversial but I do not want to give any band special treatment – as you are meant to vote for your favourite, I think this will ensure a worthy winner.

    Having explained how I plan for the game to play out, I will now post a list of bands which I believe are suitable candidates for the game. If you have any questions about the game feel or unsure about any aspect, feel free to ask me.

    EDIT: The game starts on page 6, with the posts making up the preliminary round and the first half of the first round proper continuing through to page 15. This is followed by a break in play with about three pages of discussion. The game resumes from page 18 onwards.
    Last edited by Jonny Come Lately; 07-19-2015 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Information about pages where the game starts and restarts.

  2. #2
    Stuck on the Border AlreadyGone95's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    the middle of farm country (southwest Georgia)
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    I understand the format and I do want to play. I just have one question: How do you intend to pick the 32 bands? Just randomly off of the top of your head or will they be bands with the meet a certain criteria. (ie at least 10 million albums sold worldwide?)
    -Kim-


    People don't run out of dreams, People just run out of time

  3. #3
    Stuck on the Border Jonny Come Lately's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Watching the hazy sun sinking in the sea in England
    Posts
    1,974

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    AG95: I've got the explanation of the band selection process below. It is essentially arbitrary but with some room for changes if other people comment. I've tried to be reasonably objective but my bias probably shows in places.

    I didn't want to make the previous post too long so decided to include my current shortlist of bands for possible game in this separate post. This list will not be final and you can make suggestions for alterations to the list before I start the game proper.

    There are a small number of bands who I think have achieved such a level of fame and respect that they simply have to be included in the game, regardless of what you think of them. IMO this select group - call them the 'Magnificent Seven' if you wish - consists of:
    - The Beach Boys
    - The Beatles
    - Fleetwood Mac
    - Led Zeppelin
    - Pink Floyd
    - The Rolling Stones
    - The Who

    I don't think any explanation is required for The Beatles. They changed the face of popular music forever and their influence is extremely far reaching. The Beach Boys were also important in this early era and their use of harmony vocals was also influential. The Rolling Stones are perhaps the iconic band of rock and roll and the second most iconic overall. Led Zeppelin and The Who have both been massively influential in the rock world, while Pink Floyd transcended the niche genre of progressive rock to be widely respected within the rock mainstream and achieve great success in the UK and US alike. Fleetwood Mac's influence is perhaps less evident, but few bands can match their popularity and versatility, and most people like at least one version of the group.

    The remainder of the shortlist so far is as follows (in alphabetical order)

    1. ABBA
    2. AC/DC
    3. Aerosmith
    4. The Allman Brothers Band
    5. America
    6. Bee Gees
    7. Black Sabbath
    8. Bon Jovi
    9. The Byrds
    10. The Clash
    11. Cream
    12. Creedence Clearwater Revival
    13. Crosby, Stills and Nash (& Young)
    14. Deep Purple
    15. Dire Straits
    16. The Doors
    17. Foreigner
    18. Genesis
    19. Guns 'N' Roses
    20. Heart
    21. Journey
    22. KISS
    23. Lynyrd Skynyrd
    24. Nirvana
    25. Queen
    26. Poco
    27. The Ramones
    28. R.E.M.
    29. The Sex Pistols
    30. U2
    31. Van Halen
    32. Yes
    33. ZZ Top

    This is too many already - to get the desired 32 bands I need to pick 25 other bands to go with the fixed seven I identified earlier (so at least eight of these bands won't be included in the game).

    The list is probably very biased towards rock groups, which reflects more on my own musical preferences than anything else, although I do think the majority of legendary groups are rock bands. However, I have tried to cover the biggest names and ignore my own preferences towards certain bands.

    I am happy to accept other suggestions for bands who you think should be on the list but I would say that any band on the list should have made at least two albums (this will rule out short-lived acts with one legendary album like Derek & The Dominos) and avoid obscure bands (the band names need to be relatively familiar, even if the music isn't). I will consider any possible changes.

    I would actually find it every bit as helpful if anyone identifies any bands that they think shouldn't be on the list - having a second opinion (or more) on this is helpful and would prevent the inclusion of any bands whose popularity I have overestimated.

    I hope to be able to finalise this list by the end of this week. Criticise my choices or omissions by all accounts as it will hopefully produce a better game!

  4. #4
    Stuck on the Border AlreadyGone95's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    the middle of farm country (southwest Georgia)
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    Well, ignore my first post then.


    ABBA, America and Bee Gees seem a bit out of place to me. While their music is certainly popular(though I only like America out of the 3), they don't seem to have the "status" of the other bands you listed. The other bands are the ones that everyone thinks of when they think of as certain genre.

    I'd also make a case for my favorite band, Bad Company. I don't about there in the UK, but here in the states they are still hugely popular and considered one of the best rock bands of the 70s.

    ETA: Will we vote for the one we want to continue or for the one we want eliminated?
    -Kim-


    People don't run out of dreams, People just run out of time

  5. #5
    Stuck on the Border Jonny Come Lately's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Watching the hazy sun sinking in the sea in England
    Posts
    1,974

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    It's a 'positive' vote - in each tie, vote for the band that you want to continue. I apologise if this wasn't totally clear. So vote for the band you want to progress whether it's the band you like just that bit better, the one you love as opposed to one you hate, or the band that you least dislike.

    I've given it a bit more thought (unfortunately this reminded me of some good bands that I'd forgotten!) and I have to say I think America probably won't make my final list. There's probably enough folk-rockers in there already and their style is pretty similar to the more widely praised CSN(&Y), who I would say are more likely to make the cut.

    I included ABBA because to me they define pure pop. Their brand of pop music doesn't appeal to me (their songs and lyrics are too sugary for my liking and their music seems like wallpaper for the singers IMO) but I can't think of anyone else who does that style of music better. They have a pretty enviable bunch of pop hits. I'm not totally sure about The Bee Gees but then again my knowledge of older pop music, as opposed to rock, is fairly limited.

    I'll see whether I can fit Bad Company in (not too familiar with their work beyond the debut album although I like the songs I have heard from it), might be quite tight though as there are only 25 remaining spots.

  6. #6
    Border Troubadour L101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Out in the shiny night ;-)
    Posts
    1,126

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    This sounds like an interesting game - should be fun - hopefully

    I think the following could be added to the list as it needs to cover a wider variety of sound (its a bit to folksy at the moment):
    - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers - definitely should be included
    - Talking Heads - are they well known enough to be included?
    - Radiohead - are they popular enough to be included?
    - The Police - are they popular enough to be included?
    - Red Hot Chili Peppers

    The bands that I think SHOULDN'T be on the list
    - The Allman Brothers Band
    - America
    - The Byrds
    - Cream
    - Yes
    - ZZ Top

    There are other bands which I would love to be added to the list but I don't think they are too well known in the US:
    - Snow Patrol
    - Elbow
    - Coldplay
    - The Killers
    "The more I know, the less I understand...."

    Don't crack up, bend your brain, see both sides, throw off your mental chains"

  7. #7
    Stuck on the Border
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    24,191

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    I'm really looking forward to this JCL & I appreciate the time & work you have put into it.

    I am delighted you have included Abba & the Bee Gees. As someone who is familiar with the Bee Gees' entire career, not just Saturday Night Fever, they have an awesome catalogue of songs.

    At the risk of provoking controversy I wouldn't have included Poco. They were well known in the California country rock field but they really only had one major hit (Rose Of Cimarron). I think America have more claims in this field. And then there is the Band. Wow. They were far more influential (especially with critics).

    I would have included Oasis rather than Lynyrd Skynyrd or Kiss, but I love Oasis. We do have more Americans on this board than any other nationality & I guess that has to be considered.

    On behalf of my husband I think Rush should be there. You don't have a lot of prog & if you're not including the Moody Blues then Rush would work. Or ELO? Too British?

    One more - I think Blondie had wider appeal than the Ramones, but critics go on about the Ramones all the time, so...

    *ETA: Lacken, I've just seen your post. Without the Byrds there would have been no Eagles, in my view.

  8. #8
    Border Troubadour L101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Out in the shiny night ;-)
    Posts
    1,126

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    That's sort of the problem with some of these bands for me - I don't really know much about the Byrds other than they were major influences to the Eagles but how do I vote on them in the game unless I do a major listening weekend before the game starts - don't think that can happen somehow.

    Its the same for POCO (but I left them in the list because it might cause some controversy if they were taken out), America, The Band - the list is mainly American as the majority of players will be American but I know next to nothing about them only what I read here on the Border and they were really before my time - I find it hard enough to keep up with the bands I love without having to go back to the early 70's to listen to these bands.....

    I forgot about Oasis, I would also love for them to be included but I can't see that happening as they are popular to only a small minority.
    "The more I know, the less I understand...."

    Don't crack up, bend your brain, see both sides, throw off your mental chains"

  9. #9
    Border Troubadour
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,462

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacken101 View Post
    The bands that I think SHOULDN'T be on the list
    ...
    - The Byrds
    - Cream
    - Yes
    - ZZ Top
    (I'm not doing this as a direct rebuke, I'm saying all this to counter their case for omission ).

    The Byrds should be on there since I regard them as creating what the Eagles went on to perfect. They may not have had the recognition or longevity of other bands from that genre and era (CSN&Y, Eagles, Beach Boys etc), but they were integral to the era. I also believe it launched the careers of the likes of David Crosby and, Gene Clark.

    Cream were a massive influence to the blues, hard and psychedelic rock genres and are one of the greatest rock trios of all time. Jack Bruce influenced endless bassists with the sound he created with them, and Clapton speaks for himself. Always sadly overlooked when people discuss the great British bands of the 1960s.

    Yes's inclusion should be given. They are one of the greatest prog bands ever and have been about practically constantly since the late 60s. Yessongs is one of my favourite live albums ever and Rick Wakeman, Steve Howe and Chris Squire are arguably three of the greatest of all time on their respective instruments.

    ZZ Top are one of my favourite bands and whilst aren't as strong as some of the others listed are still worthy of a place. Some of the Eliminator-era work is a bit cheesy but Billy Gibbons is a seriously talented guitarist, and they are one of the best examples you'll find of Southern, boogie and hard rock. That and their beards are epic.

  10. #10
    Stuck on the Border AlreadyGone95's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    the middle of farm country (southwest Georgia)
    Posts
    5,364

    Default Re: The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

    First off, I agree with FP on Rush. Besides Pink Floyd, Rush are probably the most known prog rock band.

    Allman Brothers Band should be on the list because without them, there would be no southern rock. They were the first band to combine rock,blues,country, and gospel together to make what would become southern rock (ok, I am biased because they are my favorite band from my state )

    Lacken, you talk about about not knowing much about the potential bands, it's the same way with me and the bands you listed

    ETA: I agree with pretty much everything TLR said
    -Kim-


    People don't run out of dreams, People just run out of time

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •