The Border Battle Of The Bands 2015

[Jonny Come Lately]

Thank you for your post about Judas Priest and heavy metal, tlr. You know a lot more about them than I do and as my knowledge of their music was quite sketchy I did not realise about their range of different styles. I learnt a lot about their music and style from your comments and I am very happy to include them in my final list, I can see that they are quite distinct from Sabbath and Iron Maiden. Your point about not necessarily including just one band from a particular movement is also very fair, especially as the examples you cited were all on my original list!

Blue Oyster Cult are a pretty cool band (Don't Fear The Reaper is one of the best songs in rock history IMO - it's got great music, great lyrics and great vocals, as well as an interesting twist on a common central theme, and is brilliant from start to finish), so I'd quite like to include them as well.

My other current thoughts (I hope to finalise the list in the next two days if not before):
- The cases for Living Colour and 10cc are probably a bit weak compared to most of the others listed. I think it's unlikely I will include either.
- I am leaning towards not including the Grateful Dead. I get the impression they are more popular with critics than with music fans.
- I could perhaps justify including one of The Red Hot Chili Peppers and Green Day, probably the former, but not both. It is more difficult to judge the status of modern bands than classic ones.
- Jethro Tull was my own suggestion, not by anyone else, so I think we can live without them in the game.
- I think the five bands AG95 listed are all good candidates although they all lean towards hard rock and heavy metal. Representing all genres isn't essential but I think another band with a different style may be desirable (ELP as another pure prog band, or the glam/art rock style of Roxy Music). I think this may be me simply trying to over-correct for my own bias towards rock as a genre though. I wouldn't mind having the five you suggested to round off the list though if no one else feels strongly about any of the other candidates.

Removing Tull, 10cc, Living Colour, the Dead and one of the Chili Peppers or Green Day from consideration would reduce the selection process to a choice of 5 from 11, which seems a bit more straightforward (famous last words...).

I've tried to identify any obviously vulnerable bands in the 43 to maybe give another of these bands a chance although I think I might a bit blinded by this stage as I gave some thought to including all of these artists in their own right in the first place. Decisions, decisions...

[L101]

For the extra candidates you have chosen, I'd like to add my vote for Thin Lizzy to be added to the list.

Thin Lizzy because they are the classic Irish rockers who wrote the brilliant 'Whisky in the Jar' and 'The boys are back in town'. They created melodic rock that has stood the test of time and influenced many hard rockers like Metallica and The Smashing Pumpkins.

I like that you added U2 to round 1 - I know a lot of people dislike them because of Bono and the way that they released their new album but their early music (I call it Classic U2) was brilliant rock and some of their early music is timeless, 'Bad' for example. They keep reinventing themselves and up until 2000ish, did it well. I have yet to listen to the new album but when they eventually bring their Innocence and Experience tour to Ireland, I will go and see them, as I do every time they tour here.

But one thing that shocked me JCL, was that you could not name one Talking Heads song !!! What about 'Road to nowhere', 'Psycho killer' and 'Once in a lifetime' ?????

[AlreadyGone95]

Well, if you a different band that's not of the hard rock or metal genre, I'd recommend Mott the Hoople. (In place of Metallica). They were never huge over here, except for All the Young Dudes, but they were the precursor to bands like Sweet, Def Leppard and pretty much every glam rock band to form after 1971. They had some great songs(besides Dudes, All the Way from Memphis, Whizz Kid, Drivin Sister etc). Their album Brain Capers is an underrated gem. Mick Ralphs, the guitarist, went on to Co-found Bad Company.

[Funk 50]

I'm not sure what the requirements are to make the list, JCL. I'd struggle to name half-a-dozen songs from most of the bands suggested. A handful I couldn't name a single track, although I am familiar with them all.

I can only just about scrape together six titles from Led Zep and The Who from the top table.

I'm OK for Genesis and ELO, and the hits of Abba, Status Quo (not listed) and a couple of others but the majority of American bands, I'm very sketchy on.

The Sex Pistols only made 1 LP didn't they?

[Freypower]

I only mentioned Living Colour in response to FP's talking about there needing to be a black band. I really don't know if they're in the same league as most of the bands in the competition already.

I also agree that Priest and Sabbath are from different eras. Sabbath, Purple, and Zeppelin are the 3 "huge" starters for metal and they all started in the late 60s, versus Priest who came along in the mid 70s. Priest are thought of as a "New Wave of British Heavy Metal " band by alot of fans, which would put them in the same category as Maiden.
If I had my way, the list would include:
Blue Oyster Cult
Def Leppard
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Metallica

I would make a case for Thin Lizzy, but because I'm more familiar with BOC, I went with them.

I didn't say there needed to be a black band. I said it was 'a shame, that's all' that there aren't any which are even worthy of consideration, as they appear not to exist (I know of Living Colour but have never heard them).

My husband would want Mott the Hoople as well, but I would think most people on the Border wouldn't know them.

F50, you mention Quo. I love them but they are unknown in the States.

[Roey]

Not sure if the following bands represent the desired era or genre but how about The Mamas and Papas, Simon and Garfunkel, Temptations ? It is going to be fun!

[Freypower]

The problem with the Temptations as with the Four Tops, Supremes & other black groups is they were vocal groups. They weren't really 'bands'. S&G were a duo. I think we have folk rock covered & the Mamas & Papas weren't influential enough. However it's obviously up to JCL to decide this.

[AlreadyGone95]

I didn't say there needed to be a black band. I said it was 'a shame, that's all' that there aren't any which are even worthy of consideration, as they appear not to exist (I know of Living Colour but have never heard them).

My husband would want Mott the Hoople as well, but I would think most people on the Border wouldn't know them.

I misread your post. Sorry, I apologize.

I thought that some of the British Borderers might like to see Mott be included, but perhaps I was wrong.

[Jonny Come Lately]

I can't say there are any set criteria for inclusion although I would say that all of the bands have to have achieved some level of commercial success and be fairly popular in both the US and UK, but that they also have to be of a certain level of significance and have a clearly discernible identity. The only truly objective measure of success is the number of albums or singles sold but this alone is not enough IMO. There have been a number of girl groups or boy bands which have achieved great commercial success but are artistically pretty empty, One Direction being an obvious recent example - they are extremely popular but ultimately are just another new kid in town and will be forgotten when somebody new comes along.

Perhaps more significantly (serious music fans in my experience simply ignore the manufactured groups), I can think of bands who have been successful by being in the right place at the right time. About a decade or so ago, after the release of Coldplay's highly successful A Rush Of Blood To The Head there was considerable demand in the UK for bands which had the same sound. One such band was Keane, who had a smash hit with their 2004 debut album Hopes & Fears, which had several successful singles which received a lot of airplay. It was fully expected that the follow up album would also be a big hit but when it was released two years later IIRC it sold about half the number of copies, with its singles being much less successful and receiving noticeably less airplay. FWIW, my parents bought and enjoyed Keane's debut but did not even buy the follow up (as opposed to buying it and not liking it) so it seems they weren't alone. I think this shows that Hopes & Fears was successful in part because it was released at the exact right moment, and that it probably wouldn't have done much better than the follow up had it come out a couple of years later.

Hopefully these examples show why I feel that the significance of each band being considered matters before deciding whether to include them in the game or not. Any list based on quantitative measures would I feel leave out better bands for more successful ones. The most legendary bands fall into both categories but beyond this I would rather include bands who people like rather than the bands where the most people bought the album. To illustrate this, it is possible that an adult listener who likes ABBA may simply be happy to listen to their songs when they come on the radio whereas avid boy band fans will most likely want to own their album.

I'm quite surprised it took this long until someone pointed out about The Sex Pistols. You are right of course F50 but I felt I could make an exception to the usual rule for them simply because they managed to have such a massive cultural impact. I am far from being a fan of them but the fact that they rose to such prominence while only releasing a single LP solidifies their claim for inclusion I think.

I did not consider Status Quo originally when I was only planning to include 32 bands, with the increased number in the game they have a better case but I think their lack of recognition in the US counts against them too much. Mott the Hoople on the other hand might be worth a spot, there's not that much in the way of glam on the list. The American band R.E.M. did mention them on the hit Man On The Moon but whether that's enough I don't know, Don namechecking The Grateful Dead wasn't sufficient to convince me and although the list is perhaps a bit short of glam (especially if we are talking glam rock rather than pop) Roxy Music could also fill this void.

I must admit that I never considered including vocal groups like The Temptations simply because I would never think of them as being great bands. I personally think it is best to leave these type of groups out of the game. Simon & Garfunkel aren't really a band to me either. In my view The Mamas & The Papas have one absolute classic song (California Dreamin') but I can take or leave the rest of their music, and there are enough West Coast bands already. I think they are definitely not as significant as The Beach Boys, The Byrds or CSNY. America has already fallen by the wayside while I like to think that Poco are effectively filling the Eagles' place on the list.

One thing working towards finalising this list has made me realise is that when determining which bands should be included, it is the significance and recognition which matters most. I have actively included bands that I don't like and genres that I do not especially care for to ensure that a wide range of reasonably popular bands are included. I just think this makes a more interesting and dynamic game.

[AlreadyGone95]

Whatever bands you decide to make up the rest of the list, I look forward to playing.