Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[MaryCalifornia]

I really enjoyed the book, I think Felder's life story is fantastic, I think he's a great guitar player, and I think he's an ungrateful complainer and I'm surprised the Eagles continued to work closely with him year after year, with his heavy negative vibe bringing everything down.

[Freypower]

There's an awful lot of complaining IMO. Don Henley's "we broke up, we came back..." rap was bad (I'm sure it was intended to be dead serious), Glenn's sax playing was bad (I'm sure it was intended to be dead serious) etc. etc. And especially when Don writes about the "resumption" era everything was handled badly, even the mixing in concerts. He can't have been a source of huge positive energy in the band if he felt that negatively about EVERYTHING they were doing.

I don't remember this. Glenn loves sax, yes. When did he ever try to play it?

[UndertheWire]

From what I remember, Felder said it was Funky New Year. I couldn't hear it.

Update: at the beginning there's a recognisable but bad Auld Lang Syne. No doubt it was intentional.

[Freypower]

Right. I looked it up:

'On the flipside was a song called Funky New Year, in which we all clinked glasses & made a lot of noise while Glenn played saxophone. He decided he wanted to play sax after hearing David Sanborn play but he was nowhere near as good, & he never played sax on a record again, thank God' .

No kidding.

I haven't actually listened to that version of FNY for a very long time. I play the Millenium Concert version.

I think the point is the complaining should have been tempered by some positive stories.

[Marshmaster]

Hope that you guys don't mind a few comments after having read most of the posts and having read the book.

We don't know everything that went on and as such are limited to our own opinions and observations. Here's mine....

According to Mr. Felder, he was made a full partner of the group and as such should have had full access to information as to the operation of the corporation. I believe in the book a reference is made by him having been elected or serving as CFO, so he should have been able to see the financials at any time I would think.

The fact that the group did not disband or do so formally - at least as far as anyone knows, should not void the organization Eagles, Ltd and the agreements that they were operating under at the time they started their "vacation", and should still be in force when they returned - unless there was a expiration clause in the company charter(or whatever you may call it). There is no mention of it in Mr. Felder's book. We don't know if any vote was taken to disband the organization or if any filing was made to do so.

We don't know if any "Board of Directors" meetings at all were recorded, or if any meeting notes were made when they returned and whether Mr. Frey and Mr. Henley had thought to do so on the return from "vacation" so their actions would have had at least a look of legal formality. It doesn't appear so as Mr. Felder claims to have been blind sided by the new revenue sharing split that was imposed upon the return from "vacation".

When you watch many of the videos that are online, the only people that seem to be enjoying being on stage are Mr. Felder and Mr. Walsh.

It also seems odd that Mr. Walsh doesn't acknowledge Mr. Felder's role in helping him to undergo treatment for his addictions.

There are some other observations I have but think this is a good point to get to bed.

Marshmaster

[UndertheWire]

Welcome, Marshmaster. I hope you don't mind that I'm going to respond to some of your comments.

According to Mr. Felder, he was made a full partner of the group and as such should have had full access to information as to the operation of the corporation. I believe in the book a reference is made by him having been elected or serving as CFO, so he should have been able to see the financials at any time I would think.

My understanding was he was made an equal shareholder (not a partner - it was/is a corporation not a partnership) but with the arrangement that he would only benefit from profits on work he was part of ie from the start he was paid less than the original four members.

As CFO, he had a legal responsibility to look at the financial records. If records were being withheld from him, he should have taken action sooner or resigned. Was there dodgy dealing? This was the music business in the 70s, so almost certainly. Was this to the detriment of Felder? We don't know. Just because Felder felt it was, doesn't make it so.

The fact that the group did not disband or do so formally - at least as far as anyone knows, should not void the organization Eagles, Ltd and the agreements that they were operating under at the time they started their "vacation", and should still be in force when they returned - unless there was a expiration clause in the company charter(or whatever you may call it). There is no mention of it in Mr. Felder's book. We don't know if any vote was taken to disband the organization or if any filing was made to do so.

The band did not formally disband (my guess is that it still hasn't) but even if it had, the corporation would have continued as an entity that receives and distributes royalties from the recordings from 1971-1980. As part of his lawsuit, Felder moved to dissolve the corporation, which implies it still existed in 2001.

In 1994, a new corporation was set up for the HFO tour and recordings. I think they've had a new corporation for each tour and major project since. This is normal for an act of this size and is probably driven by legal liabilities and taxation reasons.

We don't know if any "Board of Directors" meetings at all were recorded, or if any meeting notes were made when they returned and whether Mr. Frey and Mr. Henley had thought to do so on the return from "vacation" so their actions would have had at least a look of legal formality. It doesn't appear so as Mr. Felder claims to have been blind sided by the new revenue sharing split that was imposed upon the return from "vacation".

There is no doubt that Frey, Henley and Azoff got together to agree how the reunion should work without involving Felder. Even Joe and his manager were part of those discussions. It was presented to Felder as a "take it or leave it" deal. It didn't deprive him of his share of his original corporation but made it clear that future activities would be covered by new corporations and contracts.

When you watch many of the videos that are online, the only people that seem to be enjoying being on stage are Mr. Felder and Mr. Walsh.

I disagree. I've seen all of them looking like they enjoy being on stage. People pull faces when concentrating, particularly if they are singing and trying to hit the right notes but it doesn't mean they are unhappy.

It also seems odd that Mr. Walsh doesn't acknowledge Mr. Felder's role in helping him to undergo treatment for his addictions.

Perhaps Joe doesn't think Felder played a significant role. All we know about Felder's contribution is that he drove Joe to rehab. Joe attributes his decision to go into rehab to the condition laid down by Frey, Henley and Azoff for his inclusion in the reunion. From Joe's former manager, we also know that "no-alcohol, no drugs" rules ("The Glenn Commandments") were applied to the whole tour to make it easier for Joe to remain sober.

[chaim]

Yes, although it's great IMO that it was his bandmate Felder who drove Joe to rehab, it is my understanding that the driver could have been anybody. It wasn't Felder who made him go there as far as I know. So, indeed, perhaps that's why Joe doesn't thank Felder in public.

[mimi g]

Going psycho-babble, I got the impression from reading Felder's book that he envied the relationship Henley & Frey had together, (with all its faults), and secretly wanted to bond with them but they wouldn't let him in. That's just my take....

[Marshmaster]

UndertheWire,

Mr. Felder didn't try to dissolve the Eagles. IN his book, his suit alleges involuntary dissolution of Eagles, Ltd. which tells me that it was both Mr. Frey and Mr. Henley that made that move. The book also states that Mr. Felder was a one third owner of Eagles Ltd. AND also had shares.

"I never quit, and I never surrendered or offered up my shares of stock. According to our corporate agreement, which is still valid, someone had to leave of his own volition for that to happen"

Also, the contract he signed in 2000 gave him "direct, free, and independent rights to examine the books". But when he started to ask questions, people felt threatened which led to his improper firing. Because of that, he sought to reopen the books all the way back to his hiring date in 1974 and to get the proper remuneration due him, first as a one-fifth partner and then as a one third partner after the departures of Mr. Meisner and Mr. Leadon, which I feel is fair but some will say is not.

Mr. Azoff, who by the way was supposed to be representing Mr. Felder as well as Mr. Frey and Mr. Henley, quite honestly didn't do his job. Mr. Azoff was in conflict of interest, as it seemed he was not representing all parties equally or properly.

It's just too bad that money and egos got in the way of some very good music that will survive the test of time.

Marshmaster

[UndertheWire]

I don't know which newspaper this came from, but my guess would be the LA Times. I've included the link to the post in this thread below.

The lawsuit, filed last year in Los Angeles County Superior Court, seeks past earnings and potentially lost income totaling more than $50 million. Felder is seeking to dissolve Eagles Ltd., the corporation that holds rights to the band’s name, some unreleased recordings and other property.

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/...&postcount=171

The book also states that Mr. Felder was a one third owner of Eagles Ltd. AND also had shares.

A limited company is owned by its shareholders. Saying Mr Felder is a one third owner of Eagles Ltd is the same as saying he owned one third of the shares.

Azoff was the manager for the band and for Don Henley. Walsh and Frey had their own managers. Azoff might argue that he did what was best for the band rather than the individuals within the band (with the exception of Henley). Also, if the alternative was no reunion, or replacing Felder, then a deal that paid Felder an unequal but still large amount may have been the best he could do for Felder as an individual.

It's 15 years since Felder was fired and 10 years since they settled the lawsuit. Felder got some money, a salve to his pride, a best-selling book and something to talk about in promotional interviews. The band played on.

ETA: I'm sorry if I'm coming across too strong. I think you came out of the book thinking as the author intended. However, it's just his side.