Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[Prettymaid]

Ouch, PM! That's pretty harsh criticism.

Sorry Soda, I didn't mean for it to be critical. By objective I simply meant that I have not read the book, nor have I read anything about the lawsuit.

I have noticed quite amusingly that some of the Felder threads don't get much of a response, and I have read others' posts concerning Felder. They usually aren't pretty!

My post was meant to be tongue in cheek - again, sorry if I offended!

[MikeA]

Some of you are already members of my little Forum. If you are, I hope you have read my review of Felder's book.

If you are not, maybe you can get to the review at the following link if you are interested

http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Forum/index.php?topic=89.0

If you wish to join, go to
http://www.mvabercrombie.net/Forum

and in your profile, request access to the Music group. You can also ask and be admitted to Golf and my Casino related forums as well at that time.

I'd love to have you over there though there is a lot of redundancy between my forum and Borders here. BTW.....I refer everyone on my forum to Borders here. I'm not trying to compete with Borders.

[GlennLover]

I just thought that I wold add MHO here. My intention is not to add any fuel to the fire.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion of the situation & the actions of the parties involved, without criticism. I like to hear all points of view. Personally, I commend Don & Glenn for taking the high road & rising above the criticism. Especially Glenn, since as far as I know he has said nothing at all about Felder leaving. From everything I have read of Glenn, it seems to me that he is one to offer praise as he sees fit, but he says very little or nothing if he feels very derogatory towards someone.


As for buying Felder out, my observation is that Felder would rather have the glory of being an Eagle rather than the money & probably didn't want a buy out, at least at first. I remember hearing of the incident where a woman thought that he was Don Henley & he carried on as if he was. He didn't bother to correct her. Again, just my very humble opinon.

Mike, you made a comment about the Eagles being role models. I just wanted to clarify my thoughts on that. I certainy don't consider them positive role models for their behaviour in the seventies. Quite the opposite. It is the fact that they have risen above that & become responsible citizens, husbands & fathers. That they kicked the drug & drink habits & the wild actions, all "that "childish stuff", as I have heard Glenn call it in interviews. Don has also admitted that they did some very stupid things in their past. All four have worked to "give something back" through their charitable work. This is a large part of what attracted me to Glenn in the first place.

Anyway, I had a little time on my hands & decided to give my 2 cents worth.

[MikeA]

I just thought that I wold add MHO here. My intention is not to add any fuel to the fire.

Very well Stated Glennlover. No sarcasm at all in that praise!

You are very correct, it was the reference to their "role modelness" (??) of the Seventies to which I was making reference in that other post. And like you, I really do admire anyone who can unload their Monkey. I am a smoker and have not been able to kick that nasty habit. I have carried that hairy beast around for almost 50 years so I can seriously admire anyone who can climb out from under addiction and reclaim their lives.

Role Model for today....I don't know. I'd really have to think about that one. Understand me though. My hesitation is not because of any immoral conduct that I am aware of. It certainly isn't because of the altruistic endeavors they indulge in.

But the reality is, they are part of a HUGE Financial Machine. They are in BIG BUSINESS. They are dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars in worth. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes (maybe I'd like to find out and then make up my mind, but the chances of that happening now are less than ZERO <LOL>). But I'm sure that managing all those millions would make it very difficult for them to live what most of us would consider a "normal" life.

I really hope that for each one of the Eagles (past, current and future) that they are able to really enjoy their lives...their families...their fortunes.

I say that because I have known extremely wealthy and powerful people on a very close basis. Life is NOT a bowl of cherries for them. They are married as much to their careers and to the wealth they have accumulated as they are to their wives and husbands. I'm speaking from PERSONAL experience and do not know if I could chose that sort of a role model to build my life upon. I know that these people have to be very VERY careful when they let someone into their lives. They are always suspicious of someone trying to befriend their money or power instead of befriending their Person. Most of the time, they have to be extremely careful of what they say, how they display emotion, how they deal with any situation for fear that these things will be noticed and used against them.

Okay, that was not why I said I wouldn't want my son to pattern his life after them (I wouldn't expect him at his age to understand it). That was purely because of the bad decisions they made when they were on the rise and when they were first up on top of the mountain of success. But, you have to ask yourself...."would they be who they are today had they NOT indulged themselves as they did when they were in their Twenties?" I don't know. We are each the summation of every experience we have ever had.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Sorry, I’m a little late weighing in on this, but my time on the board has been limited lately. The first thing I want to say is that I, for one, always welcome a spirited debate as long as it is done rationally, fairly, and respectfully. I am a firm believer that there are three sides to every story.

Even though I have vehemently criticized Felder, you can go back through this thread and see that I have never maintained that Don or Glenn were gods that should be put on a pedestal. However, it seems to me that any of us who defend them are often unfairly accused of blind adoration and worship. As much as I love these two guys and, yes, think they are incredibly hot, I do NOT see them ‘as handsome iconic figures that I will always stick up for through thick or thin as if they were my husbands!’ I have criticized both Don and Glenn for various things on more than one occasion.

I look at it as two separate things. It is not a case that if you are for Henley and Frey, then you have to be against Felder or vice versa. I acknowledge that he is an amazing musician, and I believe that he made some incredible musical contributions to the band. My problem with Felder stems primarily from my perception that he views himself as a perpetual victim in his book and in subsequent interviews. I honestly do not understand how he can criticize Frey and Henley for being money-hungry and power-hungry without seeing himself exactly the same way. I do not believe he is being intentionally dishonest – but I do believe that he has lost some of his objectivity in his recollection of various events. I have mentioned in some of my previous posts in this thread that anyone that exercises some measure of critical thinking will find that there are quite a few contradictions throughout his book and interviews.

With regard to the way the Eagles handled his termination, I maintain that it is difficult to make any real judgments since there are so few details available to us. Is it clear whether or not Felder was still a full partner in Eagles, Ltd. after his contract was restructured in 1994? If so, do we know whether Felder would have agreed to a buyout? One thing we do know is that Glenn and Don wanted him out, so that’s what happened. It is also clear that by the time he was given his walking papers along with three $1000 checks, Azoff, Frey, and Henley knew that a lawsuit was inevitable. My assumption is that the legality of the termination was dealt with in the settlement. I don’t believe that we can draw any conclusions from the fact that both parties felt it was in their best interest to settle the lawsuit rather than to go to trial.

I do wish Felder well in his future endeavors. I have to admit I’d rather see him try to move forward with new creative ventures instead of spending the rest of his years living off of his Eagles’ income. Unfortunately, it is probably very unrealistic for him to cling to the idea that things will ever be ‘patched’ up with his former bandmates.

[MikeA]

IABAD,

Good points. I do not know much about how the contract of Felder was renegotiated back When Hell Froze over either. I doubt (opinion ONLY here) that Felder would have agreed to reduce anything on the financial end of the contract (see comments on Wikipedia further down this post). And, again from what I have heard, there were a lot of compromises made by more than just Felder, by all partners and other members of the band, to facilitate getting them all back together for that 1994 tour. In order to make that happen, I can see Felder relinquishing or reducing some of the decision making power in the band.

The only reference I can find from an unbiased source is that Felder did give up equal shares of income from the release of the Boxed Set that sold for $60 a copy. According to Wikipedia, this amounted to Felder receiving 6 times less than did Frey and Henley for that one product. Nothing was stated about the control in the Corporation. There was a nebulous mention in that Winkipedia document of an allegation by Felder that Glenn and Don had at least attempted to increase their share from equal thirds to some undisclosed greater portion. There was no confirmation that this attempt actually happened or that it was put into practice.

But I think he would have been an absolute fool to have given up any share of the financial aspect of the Eagles LTD without a court battle in 1994. It could have happened. I do recall what happened with Stepenwolf when the leader (German guy whose name escapes me) got the others in the band blown out of their minds on drugs and then coerced them into signing away their rights to anything having to do with the name of the band and if I recall correctly, playing any of its music! Felder may have wanted to play in a heavyweight band again so bad that he might have though it worth it to give up part of that partnership. However, it is blatantly obvious to me anyway, that he didn't fully give up partnership else that lawsuit would never have happened.

If the conflict between Felder and the other partners of Eagles LTD (in this case it was just Don and Glenn as far as I know for I have personally heard Joe say to ME that he didn't factor into that and that there was a lot of "garbage" dating to pre-Joe (those are Joe's words as near as I can recall them) and I just can't see Tim having those types of conflicts (and that is meant as a good thing about Tim)) was so great that they could not or would not continue performing together, then some action had to be taken to sever relations with Felder completely.

My only criticism of Don and Glenn is the way in which they went about removing "the conflict". I do not criticize them for doing it. Maybe they did try to buy him out. We have virtually no information concerning that, or at least I don't. But if they did, whatever the point of the negotiation was, it was unsatisfactory to Felder. And as a partner in Eagles LTD, Don Felder had every right to be a part of the negotiations having to do with anything concerning the Corporation. This just happened to be a negotiation with the heads of the Corporation to FIRE one of its Partners. I can't imagine Felder agreeing to THAT <LOL>!

You are all correct when you clarify that resolution obtained out of court indicates no "right or wrong" on the part of either side of the conflict. It is certainly possible that Felder agreed to relinquish all claims of revenue to which he was entitled for his years with the Corporation and that he got no cash settlement from them at all for forfeiting his partnership in Eagles LTD. They may have just talked him into walking away a happy camper. Maybe. But I kinda doubt it! I base that on the suits and countersuits and duration of the arbitrated conflict. Felder was suing for "unlawful termination" and the other partners of Eagles LTD were suing Felder for "breach of contract" having to do with a book that Felder was "attempted to sell the rights to a "tell-all" book".

It makes no difference "to we the fans of The Eagles" what the details were. Don Felder now has whatever settlement that was mutually arrived at and he has his income from the book. I think it unlikely that either Felder or his family will have any financial concerns if they manage whatever they did get from the settlement properly. He has royalties to the sales of four albums that were released while he was a partner in the band plus two or three compilations of "greatest hits" and one of those "greatest hits" albums was the biggest selling album in HISTORY! It will be interesting to see what Felder does musically in the future.

I do think one thing is abundantly clear though. We as fans of music will almost certainly never hear Don Felder, Joe Walsh, Don Henley, Glenn Frey and Timothy B. Schmit play live together again. And that is OUR LOSS.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Well, I still think it is unclear about whether or not Felder was a full partner in Eagles, Ltd. after the 1994 reunion. He has even made statements in recent interviews to the effect that he was "standing up for the agreement made when they started". That indicates to me that he wanted to go back to the agreement made in the 70’s. Whatever the case, I don’t think it was unreasonable that Frey and Henley felt that they were entitled to a larger piece of the pie after the resumption. Felder has never claimed that he was under any duress or misunderstanding when he agreed to his 1994 contract. So the question to me is who went back on their word? Again, I don’t know the answer – I’m just asking the question.

It appears that he was never satisfied with the terms of the ’94 contract. I have always maintained that if he was unhappy with it, he should have refused to sign it. He could have sued or left the band at that point. Mike, you asked the question earlier, why should he have left? Well, aside from the wealth, power, and status of being in the Eagles, maybe to get out of what he describes as a miserable situation. So when Felder makes comments that it was always just about the music for him, does anyone really think that is believable?

The bottom line though is that unless someone else decides to provide us with more information, Felder's account of the events is all we have. As we've said, we may never get the whole story. I agree that the entire situation is very sad and his talent is missed. However, I think Steuart Smith is doing a very admirable job of filling the gap, and hope to see the guys continue on for a few more years. Glenn declared in February of this year that "band morale is at an all time high".

[MikeA]

IABAD,

That is nebulous to me anyway...the renegotiation of the contract between Felder and Don and Glenn in '94. I cannot imagine why Felder would have ever signed away anything at that point unless he just wanted to perform with the band and "they" wouldn't perform under the existing contract with him. It may have been a case of Felder looking at the situation, his own financial situation and thinking....there is a lot of money in a reunion and a smaller part of it is still a big piece. And he may have just wanted to perform again as part of the Band that he was most successful with. Who knows for sure.

But even if it was about his percentage in cut, nothing I've read or heard indicates that he ceased being a Partner in the Eagles LTD during the renegotiations. So, his complaints about being "coerced" in '94 is all a moot point when it comes to the separate action brought against him by the attempt at "firing" him. If he was a Partner, I still maintain that they couldn't legally sever relationships with him in that particular manner. We'll never know that for sure either I guess since it was settled out of court.

But you and I and the rest of the Eagles fans can speculate until Kingdom Comes and never get anything resolved without a lot more information and I'm sure that type information is "gagged" in the terms of the out of court settlement.

I'm not worried about how much better things are for the three of them. I don't even know for sure that Felder is STILL not a partner though it would surprise me tremendously to find out he still was <LOL>. I can't imagine a settlement in which they would agree to allow him any kind of control in the Corporation.

It does bring up another point that I wonder about. I wonder if Felder still gets royalties from the sales of the albums the Eagles LTD released prior to 2001? It could have been part of the recent settlement that ALL rights to anything having to do with the Eagles was wiped out with the cash settlement. I hadn't thought about that because those old Eagles recordings are still selling and I'm sure they are still generating a LOT of revenue for those who still get a royalty off of each recording sold!

I'm not concerned about Glenn and Don. They are big boys and seem to have now the setup in the Eagles LTD that they've wanted. And, they are very obviously taking every advantage of it in that they are still producing music and touring with the Band and are being extremely successful with it.

But still, it saddens me that the polish that the lineup had musically with Felder in it during at least three of the four albums that Felder was involved with (not counting compilations), will not be something that there is much of any chance at all of being repeated. Maybe it wouldn't have been possible even if the lawsuit hadn't occurred. Certainly not according to the three parties involved! There is no doubt that there was a lot of stress "at the top".

But it is what it is. It's over. The Eagles live on. YEA!

[sodascouts]

Another interview, this time from LancasterOnline.com.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

But it is what it is. It's over. The Eagles live on. YEA!

Now, we may have finally found some common ground that we can get all members of The Border to agree on!

Thanks for posting the new interview, Soda. Unfortunately, it is just a little more of the same ole stuff.