Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[sodascouts]

Oh, I'm almost positive that Felder would not agree to give up royalties on his songs like Hotel California, even for a large lump sum. Part of the reason the Eagles fired him was to prevent him from getting any royalties on FUTURE releases, but I seriously doubt he would sign away royalties from previous recordings. In fact, I think I remember Howard Stern saying something about the Eagles making money for him when they play HC, and Felder grinning and snickering about it.

[Freypower]

I originally thought he disliked Frey more than Henley until I got toward the end of the book. He talks about reaching out to the other band members and describes the conversations that took place between them. He was genuinely surprised and shocked that Glen Frey spoke to him. I thought an extreme amount of contempt for Don Henley came through when he describes his frustration and annoyance with Henley's refusal to speak to him. It also struck me that he was quicker to snipe Henley. I am thinking back to the part where he describes the desire of one of the band mates wives to be photographed with Henley and he just sneered and walked away. Incidents such as these are what I base my conclusion on.

I sometimes got the impression that his skirmishes with Frey were more like an intense sibling rivalry. I grew up with brotheres and we were all close in age. I know how intense and downright hateful it can sometimes get.

He was horrified by Henley's refusal to speak to him because, right up until then, he still did not understand that Frey was the band leader and it was Frey who fired him (with Henley's agreement). Henley was in no position to speak to Felder.

Earlier in this discussion we talked about 'back handed compliments' to Henley to emphasise even further his hatred (it is not too strong a word) for Frey.

Sadly, I don't believe Frey and Felder experienced 'sibling rivalry' because it is my belief they disliked each other intensely from the very beginning.

[Just Another Hired Hand]

Trust me, so do siblings in rivalry!

[sodascouts]

I agree that Felder seems angrier at Glenn. While he doesn't let Henley off the hook, he characterizes Henley as a greedy, incredibly talented genius with occasional flashes of nastiness. He characterizes Glenn as a greedy, moderately talented sadist with occasional flashes of brilliance. The former is definitely more flattering than the latter.

Also, Felder repeatedly contends that Glenn was jealous of Henley, and goes further to claim that Glenn's jealousy is so intense that it causes him to hate Henley to this day. Felder asserts that Henley is a more talented singer, songwriter... he compares Glenn unfavorably to Henley again and again. All of this make me think that Henley comes off better overall.

(Note: while Felder is certainly free to express his opinions on who he believes is the better songwriter, I don't think he has the right to act as if he knows the heart and mind of Glenn Frey when it comes to his feelings about Henley.)

As far at that final phone call goes, according to Felder's book, he tried to reach Henley first because he figured Henley would be more sympathetic. He knew that if he could get Henley on his side he had a better chance at working it out than if he approached Glenn alone. While he understood Glenn had the final say, he also knew that Henley considerably influenced decisions, and indeed Irving Azoff had presented the decision to Felder as a joint one.

That said, if Henley had adamantly disagreed with Glenn's decision, it probably would have been the end of the Eagles again. I doubt Glenn would have compromised on it at that point. Look at what happened in 1980. It seems to me that when it comes down to it, as I've said before, it's the FreyWay or the highway! lol

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Oh, I'm almost positive that Felder would not agree to give up royalties on his songs like Hotel California, even for a large lump sum. Part of the reason the Eagles fired him was to prevent him from getting any royalties on FUTURE releases, but I seriously doubt he would sign away royalties from previous recordings. In fact, I think I remember Howard Stern saying something about the Eagles making money for him when they play HC, and Felder grinning and snickering about it.

Hmmm - As I said in my previous post, since none of us knows for sure what the terms of the settlement are, we will really never be able to determine this for sure without additional information. However, I certainly don't think it is that far-fetched if he settled for a LARGE lump sum payout. I remember that I heard rumors to that effect at the time of the settlement, but I honestly don't recall where I heard/read it. In any event, with regard to Felder grinning and snickering at Stern's remark, I don't read anything in to that necessarily either. It reminds me of the times when interviewers have introduced him as the man who wrote Hotel California. Rather than correct them, Felder just smiles and says nothing.

I agree that Felder seems angrier at Glenn. While he doesn't let Henley off the hook, he characterizes Henley as a greedy, incredibly talented genius with occasional flashes of nastiness. He characterizes Glenn as a greedy, moderately talented sadist with occasional flashes of brilliance. The former is definitely more flattering than the latter.

Also, Felder repeatedly contends that Glenn was jealous of Henley, and goes further to claim that Glenn's jealousy is so intense that it causes him to hate Henley to this day. Felder asserts that Henley is a more talented singer, songwriter... he compares Glenn unfavorably to Henley again and again. All of this make me think that Henley comes off better overall.

(Note: while Felder is certainly free to express his opinions on who he believes is the better songwriter, I don't think he has the right to act as if he knows the heart and mind of Glenn Frey when it comes to his feelings about Henley.)

As far at that final phone call goes, according to Felder's book, he tried to reach Henley first because he figured Henley would be more sympathetic. He knew that if he could get Henley on his side he had a better chance at working it out than if he approached Glenn alone. While he understood Glenn had the final say, he also knew that Henley considerably influenced decisions, and indeed Irving Azoff had presented the decision to Felder as a joint one.

That said, if Henley had adamantly disagreed with Glenn's decision, it probably would have been the end of the Eagles again. I doubt Glenn would have compromised on it at that point. Look at what happened in 1980. It seems to me that when it comes down to it, it's the FreyWay or the highway! lol

Now, I believe your comments are dead on here, Soda. And the Freyway or the highway thing is hilarious. I certainly don't think any of us know the inner workings of the band better than Felder. I think we have to take him at his word that believed he had a better chance at changing Henley's mind than he did Glenn's. But when Henley did not return his calls, he turned to Glenn in a desperate, last ditch attempt to beg for his job back.

[Freypower]

Thank you for both of those posts, Soda and Dreamer.

Would a 'Freyway or the highway' banner be too corny for words?

Can I add that during the 'vacation' years whenever Glenn was asked about Felder he went out of his way to praise the man's talent.

[Just Another Hired Hand]

I feel Felder had a stronger dislike for Henley in the way he wished pain on him...I mean the pain of a break-up. Anyone whose been there knows how painful it can be, even if it results in a hit song. He hoped for Henley Break-ups to spur continuing Eagles creativity.

My wife, also a die hard Eagles fan, and I agree that for a long time Felder thought he had a relationship with Frey that really wasn't there. On the whole they met at the wrong times in their lives...Felder was married and had children at a much younger time in his life than the others.

[sodascouts]

I feel Felder had a stronger dislike for Henley in the way he wished pain on him...I mean the pain of a break-up. Anyone whose been there knows how painful it can be, even if it results in a hit song. He hoped for Henley Break-ups to spur continuing Eagles creativity.

I understand what you're saying, but you'd be surprised how many musicians say things like this! I remember Stevie Nicks talking about how good breakups made good songs regarding Rumours, for instance. I'm not sure it was an indicator of ill will so much as one of those musical tropes!

My wife, also a die hard Eagles fan, and I agree that for a long time Felder thought he had a relationship with Frey that really wasn't there.

Hmm, this is a very interesting observation I hadn't thought of before. Felder did complain about things like how he wrote a sympathy note to Glenn about his divorce but Glenn didn't write one to him, how he gave Glenn a Christmas present and Glenn didn't give one to him, etc. He also has similar complaints about the other Eagles, but he does seem to fixate more on Glenn when it comes to "friendship slights." Perhaps he did believe there was more to their relationship than there really was, although considering how the band breakup went down, you'd think he'd know better. Then again - look at his puzzlement even now about why the guys don't want to be his buddies! Your speculation makes sense.

[Just Another Hired Hand]

I understand what you're saying, but you'd be surprised how many musicians say things like this! I remember Stevie Nicks talking about how good breakups made good songs regarding Rumours, for instance. I'm not sure it was an indicator of ill will so much as one of those musical tropes!

You are dead on here, but Felder seemed to be piling it on. He came across as being somewhat vicious with this sentiment.

BTW...Thanks for the reply to my technical question...this post is testament to the perfect teacher (I'm definitely not the perfect student!)

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I feel Felder had a stronger dislike for Henley in the way he wished pain on him...I mean the pain of a break-up. Anyone whose been there knows how painful it can be, even if it results in a hit song. He hoped for Henley Break-ups to spur continuing Eagles creativity.

My wife, also a die hard Eagles fan, and I agree that for a long time Felder thought he had a relationship with Frey that really wasn't there. On the whole they met at the wrong times in their lives...Felder was married and had children at a much younger time in his life than the others.

Sorry for the delayed response, but I just wanted to concur again with what Soda said here. Thanks for your observation. You do, in fact, bring up a very interesting point here about how Felder may have perceived his relationship with Glenn, and how his delusion and disappointment may have possibly contributed to his bitterness.