Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[Troubadour]

Glad to have you here, Caiti!

[GlennLover]

Welcome from me as well. I'm sure you will enjoy it here!

[HeatherB]

Finished the book in one day this week. Haven't read any other books in regards to the band, so was surprised at all the tension that seemed to be. I echo what others have said in that Felder was a bit whiney. Whatever has transpired, we'll never know the full extent since we weren't there, so it doesn't taint my view like some. It's the music that makes me smile!

[TimothyBFan]

Finished the book in one day this week. Haven't read any other books in regards to the band, so was surprised at all the tension that seemed to be. I echo what others have said in that Felder was a bit whiney. Whatever has transpired, we'll never know the full extent since we weren't there, so it doesn't taint my view like some. It's the music that makes me smile!

Well stated, Heather! And welcome!!

Also welcome to you, Caiti!

[GlennLover]

Welcome, Heather! You're right! It all comes down to the music.

[Sebastian]

I got the book some years ago and read it cover to cover in about a week. Then I read some selected chapters again last year and then again a couple of months ago.

Not being an Eagles trivia guru, a lot of what I read there was 'new' for me and I had no way to know if it was true or not, but I can completely understand how some Eagles experts could feel if they found contradictions and the like (that's how I feel when I watch a Queen documentary or read an article and nitpick on some detail 99% of viewers/readers couldn't care less about, so I can relate).

The structure of the book is quite interesting: quite simple, rags to riches story which reads in chronological order (most of the time, at least) and puts the reader in that world, slowly introducing the 'well-known' characters such as Frey and Henley ... speaking of which, I would absolutely LOVE to read Henley's autobiography (if/when he publishes one), as he's a man with not only loads of stories to tell (GnR, etc.) but also a unique way with words, so the way he'd tell the tale would be as exciting as the content itself... and that's saying something!

Anyway, back to Felder: quite passive/aggressive on his description of his band-mates. He praises Henley's voice (who wouldn't?), lyrics, musical ear and perfectionism, but then he also says something along the lines of 'Joe Vitalle, with an arm and a leg chopped off, could still play drums better.' Even if that were true (from a technical standpoint, well, yeah, Joe's a more accomplished drummer perhaps), that's not quite a nice thing to say, especially for someone who's complaining (read: moaning) about Glenn using nicknames and the such.

What I noted is that Felder hardly ever says something good about Glenn. Sure, he says something about his conceptualising and that he could be fun when he was coked out of his a**se, but when it comes to praising him as a musician, he doesn't, even though he's very appreciative of other people's talents and contributions, such as when he describes Souther's invaluable songwriting input or when he says that Randy had one of the best voices in the band ... not once, as far as I remember, did Felder say anything good about Glenn's voice, or guitar playing to that effect. He didn't say anything bad either, but his 'silence' speaks volumes.

In fact his side of the story's VERY biased when it comes to Glenn's participation. I remember at some point he was implying the audience would be bored of 'Take It Easy' and 'Peaceful Easy Feeling' (he named just those two songs, see a pattern?) - not so much. I know of many people (myself included) who regard both as some of Eagles' best works ever. He seems to live in a bubble where 'New Kid in Town', 'Tequila Sunrise', 'Lyin' Eyes', 'Already Gone' and 'Heartache Tonight' either didn't exist or were mere pittances compared to, say, 'I Can't Tell You Why' (where he conveniently forgot to mention Glenn'd played the solo).

Don't take me wrong, I understand it was HIS book, about HIS life, so he needn't spend page after page talking about Glenn's songs or input, but it wouldn't have been a massive effort on his side to add the occasional line such as 'Glenn played some nice guitar on that song' or 'the album opened with a good song which Glenn sang', and the whole tone of the book would've been different and not as spiteful.

Don's quite a clever bloke, clever enough to offer open statements where he's quite claiming some credit without directly doing so (thus trying to come off as a saint in the process). His whole description of 'Life in the Fast Lane' was nauseous for me, as he's giving himself credit for the riff; he then says something along the lines of 'Joe took it over and the song became his' but it reads more like a patronising 'I threw him a bone and then he developed something from it.'

About 'Hotel California', the song, he's telling the story in a quite romanticised way IMO, which isn't just his fault, it's just rock 'n' roll journalism... big songs' 'biographies' are usually told in a spectacular way, as that's, in a way, what the fans want. I mentioned Queen earlier, and I'll use them as an example: saying that 'Bohemian Rhapsody' had about twenty-something vocal overdubs, was played by Kenny Everett four times on his radio programme, and had a popular video, is far, far, far closer to the truth than 180 overdubs, broadcast 14 times and being 'the first video' ever, but which version of the tale is more appealing?

So, 'Hotel California' was described in a quite biased way keeping that in mind. Omitting details such as 'New Kid in Town' preceding it as a single, and the fact that having such a long song as a hit single was statistically rare but not at all unprecedented or unique, helped building a more legendary picture. Of course, the song's great and a masterpiece and all that, but there's no need to falsify it ... or maybe there IS need, but I don't want to get too sidetracked on that... at least not at the moment.

[Freypower]

Sebastian, what a thoughtful post. Can I say that your views on this book are very similar to mine.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

What I noted is that Felder hardly ever says something good about Glenn. Sure, he says something about his conceptualising and that he could be fun when he was coked out of his a**se, but when it comes to praising him as a musician, he doesn't, even though he's very appreciative of other people's talents and contributions, such as when he describes Souther's invaluable songwriting input or when he says that Randy had one of the best voices in the band ... not once, as far as I remember, did Felder say anything good about Glenn's voice, or guitar playing to that effect. He didn't say anything bad either, but his 'silence' speaks volumes.

When I read the book the first time, I thought the same thing and wondered if it was 'driven' by the publishing company and/or editor. Since then, I've heard plenty of interviews and heard the same thing. He'll say great things about everyone but Glenn and the silence is as deafening as if he were saying something. It's still preferable to him saying something negative. I just find it sad that he can't or won't come up with one positive thing to say. Glenn doesn't in reverse, but then Glenn doesn't discuss it at all. The other person Felder seldom says anything good about in interviews is Bernie, which is kind of sad.

If any of the other Eagles ever wrote autobiographies, of course I'd read them, but I've determined I'm not natured to like autobiographies. They are by default biased because why write a book about your life and tell it from someone else's perspective? Even given that, each person talks about the good, the bad, and the ugly (unless you're David Geffen and then it's all good), and what a person chooses to label as good, bad, and ugly is very telling.

[GlennLover]

I noticed the glaring omission of any positive comments about Glenn as well.

[Sebastian]

The other person Felder seldom says anything good about in interviews is Bernie, which is kind of sad.

TBF, I did hear him saying nice things about him in some interviews (mostly about his musicality) and of course he praises Bernie a lot in the book, especially in the beginning.

One more thing I remembered: Sometimes it was clear that Felder went out of his way to emphasise the 'Alpha Male Battle' and he made no effort to hide the fact he considered Henley to be 'better' than Frey at nearly everything (singing, songwriting, producing, confidence), while at the same time ever so slightly belittling Grey's work in the studio: 'he didn't allow us to witness his vocal recordings until he'd made the final comp... he always tried the guitar solo first...' - I'm paraphrasing but, again, even if that were true (I don't know if it was as I wasn't there), it's quite off-putting that he was making it public.