THE ORIGINAL FIFTH EAGLE

[Dawn]

Irving Azoff got the Eagles back their publishing rights which was a huge accomplishment.

[Dawn]

FP, excellent points. I do agree.

[Brooke]

I can see both sides here, but since he is not a musician I can't really call him the fifth Eagle. Definitely a huge component of their team though.

Interesting post, pen! Thanks!

[travlnman2]

Sorry if I sound harsh I will NEVER trust Irving Azoff. He is responsible for the Ticketmaster Monoply over the touring industry. He is also to blame for delaying the GNR album Chinese Democracy in 2008 which he purposley did so he can make bank and force a reunion.

He only sees Money. I do not belive a word he says.

[peneumbra]

Yeah, I know a lot of people who are not fond of Irving because of the Ticketmaster thing, or other deals he's done. Honestly, if you look closely at the music business, it all looks pretty dodgy, and it apparently always has.

Talking about Elliot Roberts (Frontline Management), he was a terrific manager and made huge money for his clients, many of whom were… I don't want to use the term "difficult," but who needed a lot of attention. Joni Mitchell was one, I think Neil Young was another… And so the word was that some of the less famous and hard-to-manage talent got less of his time than they might have desired.

One of the reasons that I never got very involved with studio stuff and marketing and all of that was that, as a road manager or part of a road crew, what you do is directly involved in supporting your group - no conflicts of interest regarding whose songs go on the album, or who gets the most money, or even who gets the best dressing room (yes, it happens).

And you tend to make more friends...

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I’m also having a hard time embracing the idea of Irving as the original fifth Eagle. I have always thought that label would belong to Felder. I think back in the early days, some referred to JD the fifth Eagle, but I believe that was before Felder joined. To me, the designation of ‘Eagle’ is reserved for band members only. As far as Irving's role, he undoubtably contributed enormously to the success of the band, however, I tend to believe Glenn had it right with his HOF comment. I believe that Irving was also critical in reforming the band and keeping them together after the resumption. However, he could have done none of this without the talents, dedication, and work ethic of the band members. Lucky for everyone, he just turned out to be the right fit. I think the songwriting collaborators such as Jackson, JD, and Jack Tempchin also deserve some credit for the band's success, as do David Geffen, Glyn Johns, and especially Bill Szymczyk.

[Freypower]

I’m also having a hard time embracing the idea of Irving as the original fifth Eagle. I have always thought that label would belong to Felder. I think back in the early days, some referred to JD the fifth Eagle, but I believe that was before Felder joined. To me, the designation of ‘Eagle’ is reserved for band members only. As far as Irving's role, he undoubtably contributed enormously to the success of the band, however, I tend to believe Glenn had it right with his HOF comment. I believe that Irving was also critical in reforming the band and keeping them together after the resumption. However, he could have done none of this without the talents, dedication, and work ethic of the band members. Lucky for everyone, he just turned out to be the right fit. I think the songwriting collaborators such as Jackson, JD, and Jack Tempchin also deserve some credit for the band's success, as do David Geffen, Glyn Johns, and especially Bill Szymczyk.

Felder became a member of the Eagles so can't really be called the 'fifth Eagle' when that is in fact what he was. It's an honorary term. You could call George Martin the fifth Beatle because of the huge contribution he made to the production of their records. I don't actually like the concept for any band, not just the Eagles. I think even calling Souther or especially Browne the 'fifth (or sixth) Eagle' is stretching it. Some might argue that Steuart Smith became the 'fifth Eagle' after Felder's firing.

[sodascouts]

Interesting write-up, Soda. You probably already know this but Randy Ostin was the son of legendary label head Mo Ostin: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/lat...?pid=166698243

Was Edith Azoff Irving's mom?

Yes, Edith was Irving's mother - she was in her eighties at the time, I believe.

Family ties all over the place!

As far as the title "fifth Eagle" which I did not address in my initial reply, I too think it should be reserved for actual musicians who contributed a HUGE amount to the band through the years. As others have noted, JD Souther might qualify. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone else.

That said, Azoff's considerable managerial talents definitely contributed to their level of fame and fortune. If you find that kind of contribution as important as a musical contribution, then I can see the justification for the term "fifth Eagle" (or "sixth Eagle" when applicable).

[Delilah]

Interesting post, peneumbra.

Could the Eagles have made it without Irving? Sure, they had the talent, writing chops and drive plus a successful album before Irving came into the picture. Would they have been as famous and rich? Probably not. Irving deserves a lot of credit for the band’s enormous success. OTOH the band might be held in higher regard by the critics and tastemakers were it not for the image of being corporate, for-profit rockers. And The Big Lebowski would be another forgettable movie.

I have mixed feelings about him, given how he treated Randy when he went solo. Yet, he was the one who pushed for Randy and Bernie to be included in the RnR HoF induction.

I hold nothing against him for his role in continuing the band without Glenn. He’s their manager and getting them gigs is his job. His being tough and relentless served the band well in the past so why would he change now.

That being said, I wouldn’t consider him the “5th Eagle.” Like FP said, he didn’t contribute musically or produce anything the way George Martin did as the “5th Beatle.” If anyone should be considered the “5th Eagle” it should be JD Souther.

JD helped write more songs than anyone else outside the band, including some of their biggest hits. He performed with the Eagles on stage. He opened for them as a solo act and as part of Souther, Hillman and Furay. “How Long” was part of his setlist (and it’s pretty cool to hear Richie Furay’s backing vocals on it). Decades later, it became the band’s last hit and was a highlight on their last album.

Thanks for the food for thought!

[peneumbra]

OK - Irving is no longer the Fifth Eagle. I'm glad we got that settled.