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Thread: Eagles Mentions in the Press

  1. #81
    Stuck on the Border Houston Baby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    And thank you for posting Soda! Though it makes me sad, it is good info to know.

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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
    Apparently, several master tapes of the Eagles and Don Henley were destroyed in a fire several years back at UMG:

    --------------------------
    The Day the Music Burned


    "The archive in Building 6197 was UMG’s main West Coast storehouse of masters, the original recordings from which all subsequent copies are derived. A master is a one-of-a-kind artifact, the irreplaceable primary source of a piece of recorded music. According to UMG documents, the vault held analog tape masters dating back as far as the late 1940s, as well as digital masters of more recent vintage. It held multitrack recordings, the raw recorded materials — each part still isolated, the drums and keyboards and strings on separate but adjacent areas of tape — from which mixed or “flat” analog masters are usually assembled. And it held session masters, recordings that were never commercially released.

    UMG maintained additional tape libraries across the United States and around the world. But the label’s Vault Operations department was managed from the backlot, and the archive there housed some of UMG’s most prized material. [...] The vault held masters for the MCA, ABC, A&M, Geffen and Interscope labels. And it held masters for a host of smaller subsidiary labels. Nearly all of these masters — in some cases, the complete discographies of entire record labels — were wiped out in the fire.

    [...]

    The list of destroyed single and album masters takes in titles by dozens of legendary artists, a genre-spanning who’s who of 20th- and 21st-century popular music. It includes recordings by Benny Goodman, Cab Calloway, the Andrews Sisters, the Ink Spots, the Mills Brothers, Lionel Hampton, Ray Charles, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Clara Ward, Sammy Davis Jr., Les Paul, Fats Domino, Big Mama Thornton, Burl Ives, the Weavers, Kitty Wells, Ernest Tubb, Lefty Frizzell, Loretta Lynn, George Jones, Merle Haggard, Bobby (Blue) Bland, B.B. King, Ike Turner, the Four Tops, Quincy Jones, Burt Bacharach, Joan Baez, Neil Diamond, Sonny and Cher, the Mamas and the Papas, Joni Mitchell, Captain Beefheart, Cat Stevens, the Carpenters, Gladys Knight and the Pips, Al Green, the Flying Burrito Brothers, Elton John, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Buffett, the Eagles, Don Henley, Aerosmith, Steely Dan, Iggy Pop, Rufus and Chaka Khan, Barry White, Patti LaBelle, Yoko Ono, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, the Police, Sting, George Strait, Steve Earle, R.E.M., Janet Jackson, Eric B. and Rakim, New Edition, Bobby Brown, Guns N’ Roses, Queen Latifah, Mary J. Blige, Sonic Youth, No Doubt, Nine Inch Nails, Snoop Dogg, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Hole, Beck, Sheryl Crow, Tupac Shakur, Eminem, 50 Cent and the Roots.

    [...]

    The vault fire was not, as UMG suggested, a minor mishap, a matter of a few tapes stuck in a musty warehouse. It was the biggest disaster in the history of the music business. UMG’s internal assessment of the event stands in contrast to its public statements. In a document prepared for a March 2009 “Vault Loss Meeting,” the company described the damage in apocalyptic terms. “The West Coast Vault perished, in its entirety,” the document read. “Lost in the fire was, undoubtedly, a huge musical heritage.”

    [...]

    It is sonic fidelity, first and foremost, that defines the importance of masters. “A master is the truest capture of a piece of recorded music,” said Adam Block, the former president of Legacy Recordings, Sony Music Entertainment’s catalog arm. “Sonically, masters can be stunning in their capturing of an event in time. Every copy thereafter is a sonic step away.”

    This is not an academic point. The recording industry is a business of copies; often as not, it’s a business of copies of copies of copies. A Spotify listener who clicks on a favorite old song may hear a file in a compressed audio format called Ogg Vorbis. That file was probably created by converting an MP3, which may have been ripped years earlier from a CD, which itself may have been created from a suboptimal “safety copy” of the LP master — or even from a dubbed duplicate of that dubbed duplicate. Audiophiles complain that the digital era, with its rampant copy-paste ethos and jumble of old and new formats, is an age of debased sound: lossy audio files created from nth-generation transfers; cheap vinyl reissues, marketed to analog-fetishists but pressed up from sludgy non-analog sources. “It’s the audio equivalent of the game of ‘Telephone,’ ” says Henry Sapoznik, a celebrated producer of historical compilation albums. “Who really would be satisfied with the sixth message in?”

    The remedy is straightforward: You go back to the master. This is one reason that rereleases of classic albums are promoted as having been painstakingly remastered from the original tapes. It’s why consumers of new technologies, like CDs in the 1980s, are eager to hear familiar music properly recaptured for the format. Right now, sound-savvy consumers are taking the next leap forward into high-resolution audio, which can deliver streaming music of unprecedented depth and detail. But you can’t simply up-convert existing digital files to higher resolution. You have to return to the master and recapture it at a higher bit rate.

    [...]

    That same [2008] June 3 Daily News article included a direct quotation from LoFrumento: “In one sense it was a loss. In another, we were covered,” he said. “It had already been digitized, so the music will still be around for many years.” The claim about digital backups, which was reported by other news outlets, also seems to have been misleading. It is true that UMG’s vault-operations department had begun a digitization initiative, known as the Preservation Project, in late 2004. But company documents, and testimony given by UMG officials in legal proceedings, make clear that the project was modest; records show that at the time of the fire approximately 12,000 tapes, mostly analog multitracks visibly at risk of deterioration, had been transferred to digital storage formats. All of those originals and digital copies were stored in a separate facility in Pennsylvania; they were not the items at issue in the fire. The company’s sweeping assurance that “the music” had been digitized appears to have been pure spin. “The company knew that there would be shock and outrage if people found out the real story,” Aronson says. “They did an outstanding job of keeping it quiet. It’s a secret I’m ashamed to have been a part of.”

    [...]

    Back in 2008, UMG undoubtedly feared the public embarrassment that news of the losses could bring. But Aronson and others suggest that UMG was especially concerned about repercussions with the artists, and the estates of artists, whose recordings were destroyed.

    Record contracts are notoriously slanted in the favor of labels, which benefit disproportionately from sales and, in most cases, hold ownership of masters. For decades, standard artists’ contracts stipulated that recordings were “work for hire,” with record companies retaining control of masters in perpetuity. It is a paradox of the record business: Labels have often been cavalier about physically safeguarding masters, but they are zealous guardians of their ownership and intellectual-property rights.

    Certain musicians, usually big stars, negotiate ownership of masters. (“If you don’t own your masters, your master owns you,” quipped Prince in 1996, at the height of a high-profile standoff with Warner Brothers.) It is unclear how many of the artists whose work was lost in the Universal vault had ownership of their physical masters, or were seeking it. But by definition, artists have a stake in the intellectual property contained on those masters, and many artists surely expected UMG to safeguard the material for potential later use. Had word of the fire’s toll emerged, many of the biggest names in pop music, and many profitable artist estates, would have learned that UMG had lost core documents their catalogs rest on — a source for everything from potentially lucrative reissues to historical preservation to posthumous releases. That scenario could have exposed UMG to a storm of questions, threats and reputational damage from across the industry.

    But in the decade since the fire, UMG has faced little apparent blowback from artists or their representatives. It is probable that musicians whose masters were destroyed have no idea that a vault holding UMG masters had burned down. (A UMG spokesperson, asked if there has been any systematic effort to inform artists of the losses, said the company “doesn’t publicly discuss our private conversations with artists and estates.”)

    --------------

    Due to UMG's coverup, it's possible the Eagles and Don don't even know some of their masters burned.
    No problem, HB.

    You know, one thing this article mentions that I didn't quote above - Azoff asked them about whether some particular Steely Dan material had been damaged and UMG was able to reassure him that it hadn't. However, he made no inquiries about the Eagles' and Don's material. That really astonishes me.

    Here's the part regarding Azoff:

    "The closest UMG came to a public imbroglio may have been in 2010, when, Aronson says, he was sent on an unusual business trip to Pennsylvania. He had been told by a UMG executive that one of the most powerful men in the music industry, Irving Azoff, was asking questions about the loss of Steely Dan masters in the fire. Azoff, the former chairman of MCA Inc., is now the chairman and chief executive of Azoff MSG Entertainment, a live entertainment conglomerate, as well as the “supermanager” chairman of Full Stop Management, whose roster of clients includes Steely Dan and the Eagles. A quarrel with Azoff was an unwelcome prospect. Luckily, the tapes he was concerned about, multitrack masters of Steely Dan’s first releases, turned out to have been moved to UMG’s Pennsylvania tape vault before the fire.

    Azoff sent Elliot Scheiner, a celebrated record producer and mixer who had worked with Steely Dan, to confirm the tapes were intact. Aronson accompanied Scheiner to the Pennsylvania facility, the tapes were pulled, the matter was dropped. (Asked about this incident, both Azoff and Scheiner declined to comment.) In fact, UMG documents suggest that Steely Dan masters — different tapes than those sought by Azoff — were in Building 6197 when the fire hit. According to Aronson, these likely included certain album masters, as well as multitrack masters holding outtakes and unreleased material. “Those songs,” Aronson says, “will never be heard again.”

    Always in our hearts, Never forgotten

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    I mean. I have a 1980 concert on DVD, and it is a master, yes that is correct 1980 exists on video in my house. Houston 1980. Luckily that was not one of the vault tapes. Anyway, would the eagles release any of the stuff in their anyway??

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
    Apparently, several master tapes of the Eagles and Don Henley were destroyed in a fire several years back at UMG:

    --------------------------
    The Day the Music Burned


    " The vault held masters for the MCA, ABC, A&M, Geffen and Interscope labels. And it held masters for a host of smaller subsidiary labels. Nearly all of these masters — in some cases, the complete discographies of entire record labels — were wiped out in the fire.

    [...]

    The list of destroyed single and album masters takes in titles by dozens of legendary artists, a genre-spanning who’s who of 20th- and 21st-century popular music. It includes recordings by Benny Goodman, Cab Calloway, the Andrews Sisters, the Ink Spots, the Mills Brothers, Lionel Hampton, Ray Charles, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Clara Ward, Sammy Davis Jr., Les Paul, Fats Domino, Big Mama Thornton, Burl Ives, the Weavers, Kitty Wells, Ernest Tubb, Lefty Frizzell, Loretta Lynn, George Jones, Merle Haggard, Bobby (Blue) Bland, B.B. King, Ike Turner, the Four Tops, Quincy Jones, Burt Bacharach, Joan Baez, Neil Diamond, Sonny and Cher, the Mamas and the Papas, Joni Mitchell, Captain Beefheart, Cat Stevens, the Carpenters, Gladys Knight and the Pips, Al Green, the Flying Burrito Brothers, Elton John, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Buffett, the Eagles, Don Henley, Aerosmith, Steely Dan, Iggy Pop, Rufus and Chaka Khan, Barry White, Patti LaBelle, Yoko Ono, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, the Police, Sting, George Strait, Steve Earle, R.E.M., Janet Jackson, Eric B. and Rakim, New Edition, Bobby Brown, Guns N’ Roses, Queen Latifah, Mary J. Blige, Sonic Youth, No Doubt, Nine Inch Nails, Snoop Dogg, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Hole, Beck, Sheryl Crow, Tupac Shakur, Eminem, 50 Cent and the Roots.


    [...]

    Certain musicians, usually big stars, negotiate ownership of masters. (“If you don’t own your masters, your master owns you,” quipped Prince in 1996, at the height of a high-profile standoff with Warner Brothers.) It is unclear how many of the artists whose work was lost in the Universal vault had ownership of their physical masters, or were seeking it. But by definition, artists have a stake in the intellectual property contained on those masters, and many artists surely expected UMG to safeguard the material for potential later use. Had word of the fire’s toll emerged, many of the biggest names in pop music, and many profitable artist estates, would have learned that UMG had lost core documents their catalogs rest on — a source for everything from potentially lucrative reissues to historical preservation to posthumous releases. That scenario could have exposed UMG to a storm of questions, threats and reputational damage from across the industry.

    But in the decade since the fire, UMG has faced little apparent blowback from artists or their representatives. It is probable that musicians whose masters were destroyed have no idea that a vault holding UMG masters had burned down. (A UMG spokesperson, asked if there has been any systematic effort to inform artists of the losses, said the company “doesn’t publicly discuss our private conversations with artists and estates.”)

    --------------

    Due to UMG's coverup, it's possible the Eagles and Don don't even know some of their masters burned.
    Thanks for sharing this, Soda, I was about to post this myself. What a shame, especially since it appears there was no thorough inventory done so no one knows exactly what all was lost.

    That being said, don’t the Eagles have their own vault? If so, then maybe they still have some master recordings. I also wonder if some of Glenn’s MCA material has been lost as well.

    Thinking of you and hoping for the best. Stay strong Randy!

  5. #85
    Stuck on the Border Delilah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by sodascouts View Post
    No problem, HB.

    You know, one thing this article mentions that I didn't quote above - Azoff asked them about whether some particular Steely Dan material had been damaged and UMG was able to reassure him that it hadn't. However, he made no inquiries about the Eagles' and Don's material. That really astonishes me.
    I noticed that as well; Azoff has a lot of clients whose recordings could have been lost. Maybe he wasn’t aware they were stored in that building but he did know about SD. At that point he may have had a specific reason to ask about Steely Dan’s recordings, like they were planning on re-issues or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by vshiloh View Post
    I mean. I have a 1980 concert on DVD, and it is a master, yes that is correct 1980 exists on video in my house. Houston 1980. Luckily that was not one of the vault tapes. Anyway, would the eagles release any of the stuff in their anyway??
    I don’t believe something like that is considered a master, unless the concert recording was processed in a studio by engineers to optimize sound quality.

    Thinking of you and hoping for the best. Stay strong Randy!

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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    I remember reading about this before, but I had forgotten how massive the losses were. It's hard to believe that a company in charge of protecting such valuable property was so careless in securing it. I wonder if there were any lawsuits resulting from their gross negligence.

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    Stuck on the Border shunlvswx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    Ok. If the Eagles lost some of their masters, how were they able to put out Legacy, Hell Freezes Over and the 40th Anniversary box set of HC? These came out 10 years after that fire? They must had some extra masters somewhere. I'm very confused about what masters were lost.

    I'm surprised they weren't any lawsuits. I haven't read or heard that they were getting sued.

    Brothers for life. RIP Glenn

    I'm not sure I believe in fate, but I know that crossing paths with Glenn Lewis Frey in 1970 changed my life forever, and it eventually had an impact on the lives of millions of other people all over the planet. It will be very strange going forward in a world without him in it. But, I will be grateful, every day, that he was in my life. Rest in peace, my brother. You did what you set out to do, and then some." -Don Henley

  8. #88
    Stuck on the Border Delilah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    I don’t think there have been lawsuits b/c, as indicated in the part of the article Soda posted, many artists are unaware of where their masters were being stored and that they were destroyed in the fire. At the time, it seems that the destruction of videotapes and film got the attention of the press and UMG played down the damage to the music recordings.

    Some artists are posting on social media that they are now wondering if their “lost” masters were destroyed in the fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by shunlvswx View Post
    Ok. If the Eagles lost some of their masters, how were they able to put out Legacy, Hell Freezes Over and the 40th Anniversary box set of HC? These came out 10 years after that fire? They must had some extra masters somewhere. I'm very confused about what masters were lost.


    I’m confused about which masters were lost too. But if I’m not mistaken, HFO was mastered from a digital source, not analog.

    Thinking of you and hoping for the best. Stay strong Randy!

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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I don’t think there have been lawsuits b/c, as indicated in the part of the article Soda posted, many artists are unaware of where their masters were being stored and that they were destroyed in the fire. At the time, it seems that the destruction of videotapes and film got the attention of the press and UMG played down the damage to the music recordings.

    Some artists are posting on social media that they are now wondering if their “lost” masters were destroyed in the fire.



    I’m confused about which masters were lost too. But if I’m not mistaken, HFO was mastered from a digital source, not analog.
    Maybe they change all their albums over to digital. That would kinda make sense since they released three big things in the last 2 years 10 years after the fire.

    Brothers for life. RIP Glenn

    I'm not sure I believe in fate, but I know that crossing paths with Glenn Lewis Frey in 1970 changed my life forever, and it eventually had an impact on the lives of millions of other people all over the planet. It will be very strange going forward in a world without him in it. But, I will be grateful, every day, that he was in my life. Rest in peace, my brother. You did what you set out to do, and then some." -Don Henley

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    Default Re: Eagles Mentions in the Press

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...611-story.html

    "Some of Aretha Franklin’s earliest recordings also are believed to be among those destroyed, along with outtakes and never-released recordings by hundreds, if not thousands, of musicians, among them Elton John, Cat Stevens, Nirvana, the Eagles, Aerosmith, Steely Dan, Ray Charles, Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, Soundgarden, Hole, Eminem, 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg."

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