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Thread: Corona Virus

  1. #751
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Interesting. Shoot, I've been in many doctors offices and hospitals and I have never caught it. I know my entire close family is vaxed and not caught COVID. And I think you have to be super careful where you pull data from on the cases of people in the US that are vaccinated and have COVID. I only trust a couple sources. In Fauci We Trust. lol. I don't doubt there are breakthrough infections, but people unvaxed are far and away the people getting it now. Omicron has made it easier to catch, but the symptoms a little less devastating than Delta or even the original strain. I think that the reason you see the occasional breakthrough case is because of a new variant. And until everyone gets vaccinated, you will see new variants until we reach herd immunity. Viruses love to mutate so that's nothing new. I bet there will be an Omicron specific booster soon.

    I'm glad that in the UK most people you know are getting vaccinated because over here we still have way too many people who are unvaxed, most of them due to ignorance. It doesn't help I live in Rednecksville, USA - because it sure seems like the people around me that aren't family are all unvaxed and maskless and proud to double down on stupid.

    I'd be curious to know if those people you know who got COVID got a mRNA vaccine and if they had a full set. I think the people who have received Moderna or Pfizer and at least 2 if not 3 are very unlikely to get COVID. I know a lot of vaccinated people and none of them have had COVID since getting the shot. I've known so many unvaccinated that have got COVID. I think the mRNA technology being able to catch not only the original strain but other slight variations on the SARS-CoV-2 theme make it far better against these variants than the old school single dose shot that takes the exact way the original strain looks and only offers protection against that. The mRNA vaccines are "smart".

    And I know of 6 unvaccinated people personally by name that are either acquaintances, friends, or distant family who have *died* of COVID since the vaccines have been available. Every single one was unvaccinated. One of whom said there was no way he was getting that damn shot that changes your DNA. He got COVID, went on a vent, and died. Have it your way then, bud. It's so unfortunate and selfish. He left behind a widow and children. Simply because he was too deep in the well of right wing conspiracy. And I do know of one other that died of COVID, but she died before the vaccines were available so that's very unfortunate. When you tell someone you know of 7 people who've died of COVID the non-believers will say "BS!" or "sure buddy, nice story" or "I'll take things that never happened for 100, Alex". They just can't believe it. They are so brainwashed.

  2. #752
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    I was double vaxxed, boosted, (all Pfizer) and still tested positive for covid on January 11th. (I was a mask wearer in public, too.) If it wasn't for covid, I would have sworn I had strep throat. High fever, very, very sore throat. Bad symptoms lasted about one day, though. Felt much better the next day, and pretty okay the rest of the week. Work covid regulations, however, meant I couldn't go back to work until the next week. Luckily, I was able to work from home. My husband, also double vaxxed and boosted (Pfizer) did not catch covid.

    But, I do not regret getting the vaccinations/booster at all. My symptoms were so "mild" I am sure because I was vaccinated. I totally believe in the process, and I do not understand the "no-mask, no vaccine for me!" people. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

    I think covid is something we're going to have to "learn to live with." Although the latest mutations seem to be losing their "bite", I think we're going to need to be precautious from now on.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAinOH View Post
    I was double vaxxed, boosted, (all Pfizer) and still tested positive for covid on January 11th. (I was a mask wearer in public, too.) If it wasn't for covid, I would have sworn I had strep throat. High fever, very, very sore throat. Bad symptoms lasted about one day, though. Felt much better the next day, and pretty okay the rest of the week. Work covid regulations, however, meant I couldn't go back to work until the next week. Luckily, I was able to work from home. My husband, also double vaxxed and boosted (Pfizer) did not catch covid.

    But, I do not regret getting the vaccinations/booster at all. My symptoms were so "mild" I am sure because I was vaccinated. I totally believe in the process, and I do not understand the "no-mask, no vaccine for me!" people. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

    I think covid is something we're going to have to "learn to live with." Although the latest mutations seem to be losing their "bite", I think we're going to need to be precautious from now on.
    Sorry to hear of your breakthrough case. I think the majority of people getting vaxed will not get it. It will probably be some time before we have the data but between not getting it and having a breakthrough infection might be a ratio of 75/25 or less - something to that effect from what I'm seeing. And certainly that 25 percent will still be protected from death, I think it would be exceedingly rare to die from COVID if you've been vaccinated. Probably only 5 percent or less. I think the data is clearly in favor of absolutely everyone being vaccinated and we can put this behind us far sooner. Same with mask wearing. There has been some serious disinformation on masks. I do think N95s or KN95s without valves are certainly better if you can tolerate them, but cloth masks or surgical masks are still of value. I think some people might want to double mask if using the surgical masks. I mean there are other protective devices that don't have 100 percent flawless protection. A bulletproof vest can still fail, etc. But it's far less likely!

    The fact your husband didn't get it is probably a great indicator of the vaccine working in the overwhelming majority of people. I think immunity is certainly a factor. I mean I've even read blood types can affect who's more likely and all sorts of things. But for someone to be in close contact with an infected person and not get it is a sure sign of the vaccine doing it's job. I've known so many people either before the vaccines were out or that were against the shot that once someone in their house got it, everyone else did. If they weren't vaccinated - everyone in the same living quarters got it. It spared no one. It would be impossible to have someone not get it in that way if they weren't vaxed. So the fact your husband didn't was solely because of the great vaccine. It's unfortunate that the occasional breakthrough infections happen, but that's due to the variants and the further removed we get from the original strain, the more there will be until an updated vaccine that covers that strain will be. mRNA can pick up on similarities, but the more variants the further we get away from the way the strain the shot was programmed to catch and the less that the mRNA technology works to catch things that look like it.

    I think the side effects of the vaccines are so very mild. We found out early on that rarely, some young women were getting clots with Johnson and Johnson and so perhaps younger women should go with Pfizer or Moderna. We also found out teenage boys had a very small risk of myocarditis or pericarditis with Moderna, so they should go with Pfizer or Johnson and Johnson. But the facts are that other than a sore arm or some malaise for a couple days the overwhelming majority of people will have 0 issues with their shots. Both the clots and the heart issues are overblown by the very people who were against the shots before these findings were even public. It was just false confirmation bias. All in all there are three vaccines. Depending on your biological gender and your age there might be one of the three to avoid, but that leaves two in all cases. Get one!

    I definitely agree that COVID is going to be around and that we need to adjust to the new normal. Social distance, masks, and get those vaccines and boosters people.

  4. #754
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    I haven't checked here for a few weeks, but I think it's important to say that I know a lot of people who have been triple-vaccinated and have still caught Covid. With Omicrom B2, breakthrough infections are very common and it's not just one vaccine regime. I had had two AstraZeneca and one Pfizer, my husband two AstraZeneca and one Moderna, a co-worker had 3 Pfizer etc.

    My sister and her husband visited from Canada last month. Within a week they had caught Covid after dinner with friends who tested positive a few days later. Other friends they were due to visit a week or so later had just returned from a wedding in Ireland where they caught Covid. A co-worker and his pregnant wife (who work from home but have a child in day-care) both tested positive. My dentist had Covid about 3 weeks ago. All of us were fully vaccinated and boosted but probably 3-4 months since the booster. I think most of us were pretty careful as well but we still caught it. However, none of us have been seriously ill despite most of us being of an age that puts us more at risk.

    In the UK, infection rates are falling and are now around 1 in 25 which is half what it was a month ago (based on a large, randomised survey of the genral population).
    "Billy, whoever writes the songs, wins."

  5. #755
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    I think it's definitely possible but not super common. And I certainly know those people would have been kept from what I feel could have been a high risk of death otherwise. I think it's such a misnomer that only obese or older people die of COVID. One of the people I know was a picture of health. Gone from COVID. I think children aren't near as protected as some say. I've heard but not personally known of some local kids in the ICU.

    I mean when I tell people that I personally know 6 people that have died of COVID, they look at me like I'm from another planet if not outright call me a liar. I think some people are more likely to unfortunately know of more events of a certain type than most. In my case it's pre-vaccine COVID deaths and in yours its vaxed people still getting COVID. I think most people probably don't know that many dead from it or vax'd and still get it.

    Almost everyone I know or continue to associate with is vaccinated. Family and friends. I'd say 65-70 percent are out and about, but yet still wearing masks and distancing whenever possible but will eat out, go to stores, etc. A smaller percentage are still staying at home unless absolutely required, and a couple are vaccinated but back to full on socializing. None of these people have caught COVID since being vaccinated. I think some people will know more people than others. But I think when you look at the numbers of new COVID cases, vaccinated people are definitely less affected. It does happen, again I realize that, but I think we must be awfully careful to protect the image of these vaccines and not discourage. Which I know you aren't UtW but so very many are. I'm definitely quick to jump to their defense with the real science and data figures and stats.

    I think the vaccines definitely work and everyone should get vaccinated unless they are quite literally told by a trusted non-biased/quack doctor to not get it. Unfortunately, in some small rural towns in the US you have some redneck doctors who are believing more of the politicized and conspiracy laden "science" rather than the real science of trusted medical professionals in some of the biggest medical centers and teaching institutions in the US. I mean if you go to a big clinic or are in a city, and the doc says don't get it, then don't, but just make sure you trust that your doctor isn't falling into a certain party's false narrative of vaccine safety. I know around here there is one doctor who is putting letters to the editor in the town newspaper saying don't get shots and also showing up to local school board meetings saying we shouldn't mask kids. Someone needs to have their license pulled. Evidently, they missed the day of school when the Hippocratic oath of doing no harm was taught. Shameful!

    The good news is that Dr. Fauci says that we are out of the pandemic stage, and I think Omicron being a more virulent, yet less devastating strain has helped us bring the immunity up in the non-vaccinated population and the vaccines of course giving immunity to those who are smart and get them. Cases are definitely down, but I'm cautiously optimistic. It's very possible another Delta-type strain with severe symptomatology could come along at any point. So, I'm still masking and distancing, but I will go out and eat in a restaurant booth or visit a small store, etc at this point.

    Speaking of vaccines, I'm going to be getting my 4th dose or 2nd booster in two weeks. A 4th dose of Moderna. It's definitely something I'm looking forward to. Some deniers and anti-vaxers may laugh at that, but at least I can breathe easier (literally and figuratively). I had three full doses, my first booster was a full dose because of immunocompromise, the second booster will be the half dose most people got on the 1st one. So I'm expecting less side effects. I mean I had a pretty easy go of it. Some GI symptoms and malaise but definitely not wiped out in the slightest.

    I've definitely lost "friends" over my stance on COVID reality and what people need to be doing and that's fine. I lost a few in 2016, again in 2020, and since then. It's been so disheartening to see how some people really view the disabled or the vulnerable and how selfish some people are. Of course seeing people post bigoted things and racist things and be terrible. I've seen that since 2016 when they suddenly decided to go public with their true nature. But seeing people I once thought cared for me suddenly say that we were weak and natural selection was happening or that it was time for survival of the fittest or that we just not lockdown and mask and let the chips fall where they may with the seniors or disabled people.

  6. #756
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    I understand your point, Austin. It's one of those things that varies a lot from location to location. The UK has a highly vaccinated population but also a high level of infection and therefore it is very common for fully vaccinated people to catch Covid. I'm assuming that infection rates are much lower in most of the US and therefore the overall risk of catching it is small but those who are not vaccinated will obviously be at greater risk.

    The important message is vaccinations protect against serious illness. If there is too much emphasis on protection against infection, then that could cause problems when that is no longer true. The vaccines work but the messaging may not.
    "Billy, whoever writes the songs, wins."

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndertheWire View Post
    The important message is vaccinations protect against serious illness. If there is too much emphasis on protection against infection, then that could cause problems when that is no longer true. The vaccines work but the messaging may not.
    Absolutely. But while it's not 100 percent effective against preventing infection, there are more people who will come in contact with COVID while vaccinated and not get it than there are that will get it. Definitely some sneak through and those people will have a breakthrough case but will still be protected from dying of COVID. But a larger majority will be kept from getting it at all because of the vaccine. I definitely agree the message should be keeping you out of the hospital, but I don't think it's inaccurate to state that a majority of people will actually be kept from infection at all, but yes breakthrough cases do occur and should that happen to you, you should still avoid being intubated in ICU. I'm not sure yet on the ratio of breakthrough vs not getting it in the first place, but I'm betting it's 70/30 (30 being breakthrough infections and 70 being never getting it at all) at the worst. In fact I'd wager to bet from the data I've seen it ends up being closer to 90/10. That 10 to 30 percent of people definitely exist, but thankfully not the majority.

    But it definitely can keep a lot of people from getting it that have come into contact with it and would have otherwise got it. Just like a husband and wife situation. One has a rare breakthrough case, the other one doesn't get it. The other non-infected person wouldn't be able to avoid from being exposed to it. So it's not a matter of they didn't get it because they weren't exposed. They were certainly breathing COVID particles being close to their spouse. The vaccine just did it's job in that non-infected person. I think a lot of COVID vax naysayers would say well the spouse who was vaxed and didn't get it just wasn't exposed enough to the sick spouse. That is factually and statistically impossible. They had to have come into direct contact at some point. Even if they quarantined in separate bedrooms, it's still in a house with air cycling through in close enough quarters for the highly virulent SARS-CoV-2 to come in and infect them. It's just that the vaccine did it's original job. Would it be great to have 0 breakthrough infections - absolutely. It would have been great if every single person got one before another variant came out and it was allowed to mutate making the vaccine's job harder, too. So there is that aspect.

    Of course the end goal isn't to prevent an infection. The message should be that it will keep you alive. I mean people get colds and flus. Sometimes you feel cruddy. It happens. But COVID isn't those things. It's not even close actually. But if we can make it *feel* like just a cold to the person, then the vaccine was and is very worth it. Because otherwise you end up feeling about 1000x worse than a cold if not ending up in the hospital on a BiPAP oxygen mask or god forbid in a chemically induced coma intubated on a ventilator.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalshFan88 View Post
    But while it's not 100 percent effective against preventing infection, there are more people who will come in contact with COVID while vaccinated and not get it than there are that will get it.
    This was true in the early days of the vaccine but not with the most recent variants.

    I'm not arguing just for the sake of it. I know that you are someone who is deeply concerned about Covid but I think you are basing your views on outdated information.

    I looked for something to back up my view and found this summary: https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2022/02/10...he-data-shows/

    Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease:
    After two doses of AstraZeneca: around 50% protection, waning to almost 0% from twenty weeks
    After two doses of Pfizer or Moderna: 65-75% protection, waning to around 10% by twenty-five weeks after the second dose
    After a booster dose: 65-75% protection after two to four weeks, waning to 30-40% after fifteen weeks
    On a positive note, here are the findings for severe disease:


    Protection against hospitalisation from Omicron:

    After two doses of any vaccine: 25-35% protection after twenty-five weeks
    After a Pfizer booster: around 90%, dropping to around 75% after ten to fourteen weeks
    After a Moderna booster: 90-95% up to nine weeks after vaccination
    Hospitalisations prevented: Latest analysis estimates the boosters alone prevented 105,600 hospitalisations in those aged 25 and over in England between December 13 2021 and February 6 2022.
    "Billy, whoever writes the songs, wins."

  9. #759
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Maybe it's different in the UK is all I can say.

    Here's CDC in Atlanta, Georgia in the US. I quoted a line from this page.

    • Case and death rates for people vaccinated with a primary series of any vaccine type (Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech, Johnson & Johnsonís Janssen COVID-19 vaccine) were lower than for unvaccinated people.
    So not only are death rates lower in vaccinated people, cases - meaning infections, are lower in the vaccinated crowd too. So while there may be breakthrough infections, the infections are far lower in the vaccinated crowd based on new cases reported by positive tests and vaccination status. That is still true over here. I follow the US news of course.

    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...vaccine-status

    Here's a graph.





    Breakthrough cases do happen, but the vaccinated don't have near the infection rates of the unvaccinated. I didn't click it but there was a button to switch cases to deaths and the blue and black lines even further separate! Black line represents unvax'd, dotted blue line is primary series vax'd, solid blue line is vax'd and boosted. Definitely supports the hypothesis that vax'd people don't get infected as often.

    And it looks like breakthrough cases are slimming back down again. All good news. Thanks to the boosters of these great vaccines. Go get those boosters, people!
    Last edited by WalshFan88; 05-05-2022 at 11:21 AM.

  10. #760
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    Default Re: Corona Virus

    Hi UTW and Austin - how are you both doing ? Hope all is well.

    I have 8 family members who were vaccinated(and 5 who were boosted) who caught the Omicron Covid Virus. They all became sick at Christmas and early January 2022. All have recovered except a BIL who is having long term memory problems. I continue to wear a mask everywhere and received my second booster in early April. Something like 80% of people here in New Jersey have received the vaccine. However, far less have received booster shots. When out and about, I noticed a lot of people still wearing masks, but more people are not wearing them any more. Everyone is Covid weary but this virus is not going away.

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