Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[UndertheWire]

In the context of whether the former-Eagles continued to work together, I think recording a demo is relevant regardless of whether they were able to release any material. It's also relevant that earlier, Don F had decided he couldn't work with Joe because of Joe's condition. As this was all during the thaw of the early 90s, it doesn't tell us too much of how they felt in 1981 although it does seem that nobody ever had a problem with Timothy.

With respect to the timing of the failed Felder-Schmit-Walsh-Reid band, there's sentence in the section of the attempted 1990 reunion that places it earlier. After they learned Glenn wasn't going to join them, the idea of doing it without Glenn came up:

No one really wanted that. Our hearts weren't in it, especially not after my failed attempt with Timothy and Joe.

Just for completeness, the "Malibu Men's Choir" that Sivermoon referred to, seems to have been in 1992/93 as Timothy mentioned it as a future plan when he was touring with Ringo Starr in the summer of 1992.

[UndertheWire]

When Henley mentioned that some of the old issues were still festering, during the HFO tour, I thought he was referring to Glenn. It wasn't until Felder was fired that I realised that Felder had been the major source of friction in the band.

My view is Henley was referring to both issues between himself and Frey and between Felder and Frey. I've seen post-Felder comments from Henley where he talks about people making things harder than they need to be and even "random victims" so I'm inclined to believe Felder when he writes that when Frey is unhappy or stressed, he takes it out on other people. However, Felder seemed to focus all his own discontent on Frey and let it show, which in turn made Frey unhappy. Removing Felder removed a major source of friction.

Some might naively suggest that a better solution would have been to removed Frey, but, as Henley put it in 1990, without Glenn it would be Don Henley and his backing band. There's also that Frey seems to be the silent workhorse of the band, particularly behind-the-scenes dealing with the unglamorous side of hiring-and-firing, dealing with management, agents, publicists, sound, lighting. Henley has said he's happy to let Frey take charge. Oddly, Felder never acknowledges this aspect but instead complains about not being consulted or having his views ignored.

[Funk 50]

Here's what he says:

" When Don Henley invited me on the road with him for his first solo tour, I turned him down. Not only did I not want to tour again, but the salary he offered was five thousand dollars a week - that of a sideman, not a band member or the lead gutarist of the Eagles. He made the offer through Irving, instead of calling me direct, and I wrote and told him that I wasn't really interested, despite my enormous respect for him as a singer and songwriter. His letter of reply said, "I don't see any reason why we can't write together and remain in touch," and so we did. I'd send him tapes now and then, and he came and sang on a few records for me, but he was writing with Danny Kortchmar and other people he felt were fresh and new. He was enjoying heading in a different direction and that was cool. "

I doubt he was looking for equal billing but some recognition of his status.

Also, when Joe wanted to record that Long Run outtake, the approach came through Irving.

Thanks a lot UndertheWire, more testament to Henley's loyalty .... and Felder's questionable opinion of his worth and how he focussed on the finances.

It partly explains why Felder didn't do much music until HFO. I'm sure they were all working with lower budgets after the initial split.

Joe released two, The Long Run Outtakes and Felder plays on both. It's quite possible that Felder's contributions could have been recorded during The Long Run Sessions, rather than while the albums were being made. Maybe Felder's contributions to But Seriously Folks were The Long Run rejects too.

I joined Joe's fan club in 1992 and the press release I received says Joe was forming a band with Frankie Miller, Nicky Hopkins, Chrissy Stewart, and Ian Wallace, with Bill Szymczyk as producer. A few tracks surfaced on the Robocop soundtrack. There was no mention of the Malibu Men's Choir.

As far as I know, the record company told Felder that they needed Joe, if they wanted a record contract. I can't see Joe joining a group, that he'd be subordinate to Felder.

All the Eagles seem happy to let Glenn take charge. It's a pity Don (F) wasn't.

[DJ]

My view is Henley was referring to both issues between himself and Frey and between Felder and Frey. I've seen post-Felder comments from Henley where he talks about people making things harder than they need to be and even "random victims" so I'm inclined to believe Felder when he writes that when Frey is unhappy or stressed, he takes it out on other people. However, Felder seemed to focus all his own discontent on Frey and let it show, which in turn made Frey unhappy. Removing Felder removed a major source of friction.

Some might naively suggest that a better solution would have been to removed Frey, but, as Henley put it in 1990, without Glenn it would be Don Henley and his backing band. There's also that Frey seems to be the silent workhorse of the band, particularly behind-the-scenes dealing with the unglamorous side of hiring-and-firing, dealing with management, agents, publicists, sound, lighting. Henley has said he's happy to let Frey take charge. Oddly, Felder never acknowledges this aspect but instead complains about not being consulted or having his views ignored.

Oh I agree UW Glenn is the cog that runs the wheel. Without him well we all know it wouldn't have been as good, even though Henley is a perfectionist.

[chaim]

I don't quite agree on the "questionable opinion of his worth and how he focused on the finances" thing. I don't think any of them would have played behind another ex-Eagle for minimum wage (well, I don't recall if it was actually minimum wage, but anyway...). And I don't see it as Don focusing on finances. I see it as a matter of principle.

[UndertheWire]

I joined Joe's fan club in 1992 and the press release I received says Joe was forming a band with Frankie Miller, Nicky Hopkins, Chrissy Stewart, and Ian Wallace, with Bill Szymczyk as producer. A few tracks surfaced on the Robocop soundtrack. There was no mention of the Malibu Men's Choir.

As far as I know, the record company told Felder that they needed Joe, if they wanted a record contract. I can't see Joe joining a group, that he'd be subordinate to Felder.

According to Felder, he made two attempts to put together a band with Schmit. The first attempt also included Walsh and Terry Reid and they were offered a record advance that Walsh considered to be insulting and lost his temper. Felder decided he couldn't work with Joe. Later on, Felder and Schmit recorded a demo with (I think) Paul Carrack, Peter Capaldi and Max Carl which they jokingly called the "Malibu Men's Choir" but they didn't get a record deal. Felder suggests that Azoff didn't try very hard because he had hopes of an Eagle reunion (always someone else's fault).

[Funk 50]

Thanks again UTW, I'm not sure about the Malibu Men's Choir but the Felder, Walsh, Schmit, Reid, thing sounds promising.

If Don Henley asks Don Felder to be his tour guitarist, I don't see how he's entitled to more money than the rest of the band. I can't see him effecting the size of the audience.

[sodascouts]

Later on, Felder and Schmit recorded a demo with (I think) Paul Carrack, Peter Capaldi and Max Carl which they jokingly called the "Malibu Men's Choir" but they didn't get a record deal.

Oh my gosh - is this the same Peter Capaldi that is the 12th Doctor on Doctor Who?! I'm a huge Doctor Who fan so how very cool if true!

[UndertheWire]

Aarrgh! Wrong Capaldi. Jim? Even then. I'm not confident.

ETA: Yes, I was thinking of Jim Capaldi and he had a writing credit on one of their demo songs but wasn't in the group.

OT: I haven't warmed to Peter Capaldi, yet. I missed an episode early on in the last series and the started recording rather than watching.

[Freypower]

Oh my gosh - is this the same Peter Capaldi that is the 12th Doctor on Doctor Who?! I'm a huge Doctor Who fan so how very cool if true!

I would have thought perhaps it was the late Jim Capaldi, ex Traffic, who had a solo hit with his version of Love Hurts.