Felder's "Heaven and Hell" Discussion Thread

[webvan]

Always been a bit of a Felder fan since I saw his name on the credits of "Hotel California" and "Victim of Love" a...long time ago on a tape, hehe...and I remember being nonplussed when he got canned in 2000 (or technically 01/2001 I guess). Anyway I finally finished his book today, a great read, after seeing the "History" documentary recently and it has left me with mixed feelings overall.

It does sound like a "misunderstanding" overall, as he wanted Azoff to tell "the Gods" when he got canned in the hope of being taken back on board. A misunderstanding because while he was legally an equal partner via Eagles Ltd (the judge agreed/settlement proves it), he was in effect a sideman throughout his tenure(s) with the Eagles and somehow didn't or refused realize it. Too bad his level headed wife only gave him the lowdown when it was too late (the "getting fired is the best thing that happened to you", etc...). Of course the fact that he wrote the music of "Hotel California", the track that too the Eagles to another level entirely, will have dimmed the issue.

Quite sad overall and it was unavoidable he would sue once he got canned although there was mention of a "severance package" but there might have been some confusion with the settlement he got later.

It seems there are still some legal issues outstanding since Henley told RS in 2013 that they weren't going to have Felder back since he "continues to engage in legal action against us" link. Seems strange since the settlement should have taken care of that, as well as getting his shares back in Eagles Ltd.

PS - as was noted in this thread I did notice that discrepancy between the "Susan went to get the HC demo tape" in the book and "the housekeeper went to get the tape" in the Vintage Rock interview, odd...

[UndertheWire]

Welcome, Webvan and thank you for your comments. I like the way you describe the "misunderstanding" as that seems to summarise the problems quite neatly.

When I was reading Marc Eliot's book on the Eagles, I realised that Azoff and "the Gods" were used to an environment where contracts were not binding. For example, Azoff was able to negotiate restropective increases in royalties for the earlier albums because the record label were desperate to get the new album.

[sodascouts]

Welcome, webvan; your thoughts are well-stated and make sense to me. I was confused about the ongoing legal action, too. Presumably it's not related to the old termination suit as that was settled, so there must be something else for which he feels he deserves more money. What it is, I have no idea. I assume there's publicly available court records somewhere but I don't have the energy right now to look for them.

[MaryCalifornia]

There could be ongoing issues related to technologies that didn't even exist in the 2000s - Pandora, Spotify, iTunes, that Felder is looking for his share of. A well-written settlement agreement would have included language to the effect of "...any technology existing now or developed in the future..." - that's standard. So, who knows what issues remain. If there are issues in 2013, the lawyers did not do a good job for Don and Glenn. They should have been able to pay off Felder and be done with him. But, I'm sure it is very complicated and we don't know the half of it. I'm also sure that none of their current issues, if any, are in the court record and that they are using a private mediator. They don't want to air their Dirty Laundry (see what I did there hahahha!!).

[webvan]

That could be it, but Henley might be "stretching" reality a bit just to come up with a convenient excuse not to consider having DF around. He could have just said he didn't want him around since he sued him, most people would understand that, but that might create more problems...

Thanks for the welcome and I'm glad I found this nice place to discuss this topic that I've been interested in for a while and more so since viewing "History" and finishing DF's book.

I was puzzled that DF wanted Eagles Ltd to be dissolved in his initial filings, but that's probably to force the accounting of its assets and force a payoff to the partners.

Haven't read that here but on a blog I read that GF had forbidden that Joe and Timothy talk to DF (certainly seems consistent with what's in the book) and there was speculation that the same would happen with BL rejoining the band...on the other hand it seems (description of their meeting during the HFO tour I think) like DF didn't bother staying in touch with his "best friend" after he quit the Eagles in '75 so it probably doesn't matter a lot...somehow that reminded me of DH's comment "it was poignant, assuming it's real" after DF got choked up in History.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Welcome, Webvan, nice to have you on board!

I didn't see the settlement as proving anything other than the Eagles needed it resolved before continuing with LROOE. I've had family members settle things without it going to court because continuing only benefits the lawyers on both sides, and it certainly didn't mean they were in the wrong. So, I get touchy when that logic is used!

I don't see Don as someone who feels the need to justify a whole heck of a lot, so I lean towards the continuing legal action being true. I wondered if it was tied to the DVD in some way, but really, it's all just speculation designed to make our heads swim! Anyway, I have enough drama in my own life (the politics where I work just can't be described) I don't want to concentrate on someone else's drama as well...

[chaim]

At some point I talked about an old interview (from the OOTN era) where Don, IMO, emphasizes his contribution to the songwriting and downplays Glenn's contributions - like he, IMO, does in his book. I got criticized by some people. At the moment I'm going through interviews with different bands and artists on the Rock's Backpages website and came across that same interview. I stand by what I said. IMO he clearly states that the Eagles songs are born either with the band working together or with him working with one of the guys. I can't remember/find the thread my post is in, so I post the quote here, because I see some elements that I see in Don's book - written decades later. I don't want to spread more Felder hate, I just want to support what I said by showing the quote:

"Somebody will have an idea and spit it out, whether it's one line, two bars, no words but a chord change, words but no chord change. Henley's a really far-out lyricist. He and Glenn [Frey] work really well on the lyric part of it, and Bernie [Leadon] and I work primarily on the musical end of it."

For example, Don Felder cites the procedure behind 'One of These Nights': "Glenn would go 'One of these nights, cha cha chachacha cha cha chachacha,' and that's it, no chord changes. Then I sat down and played bass on it and dubbed the bass part to it and it was just me and Henley and Glenn sitting around and jamming. It's just being around, listening to ideas, criticizing ideas, and just working together.

"That's usually how it comes together on certain things; on other things Randy [Meisner] and I will work on like 'Too Many Hands' or Henley and I will work on like 'Visions'. The ones that come together as part of a band instead of one guy writing the song and presenting it are the ones that come out best. There is just a certain magic this band has when it works together."

What about Lyin' Eyes and After The Thrill Is Gone? Glenn had no chords for them either and Don F and Bernie "worked on the musical end of it"?

ADDED LATER:

I Wish You Piece? Hollywood Waltz? Journey Of The Sorcerer? Take It To The Limit? As far as I know those songs were neither group compositions or songs Don F worked on with one of the guys.

[UndertheWire]

Maybe Felder is only describing the songs in which he's involved. He probably wasn't present for a lot of the Henley-Frey colaborations. Though there's a touch of if he doesn't see (or hear) it, it doesn't exist.

On the subject of Bernie, the book describes a couple of events after the split and I'm glad for the information. When the band played Nashville during the HFO tour, Bernie went backstage and had seen Glenn and Don and said it was "fine". And around 2000, Bernie organised a benefit for Fred Walecki in which Henley, Randy and Timothy all played.

I was trying to stay positive but I got quite annoyed with Felder in those sections because he put a negative spin on both. He blames Glenn and Henley for Bernie not keeping in touch with him and for Bernie not inviting him to take part in that benefit.

[randymeisnerrocks]

Anyway, I have enough drama in my own life (the politics where I work just can't be described) I don't want to concentrate on someone else's drama as well...

Man, it must be something in the water. Everyone at my work is completely assed up. I need a beer, some Calgon and some MEISNER.

[VAisForEagleLovers]

Man, it must be something in the water. Everyone at my work is completely assed up. I need a beer, some Calgon and some MEISNER.

Well, I'm thinking it might be something in the air! The frigid air! We all handle our stress in different ways, I guess... I need a conversation with the Captain and some After Hours!