Fleetwood Mac

[Jonny Come Lately]

I have to be honest and say that in my experience there is probably more hostility from Peter Green-era Fleetwood Mac fans towards the Rumours line up than there is between the Gabriel and Collins eras of Genesis. I think this is because while a lot of Gabriel Genesis fans don't enjoy the more commercial singles from the 1980s, the post-Gabriel band did still produce a few more prog-type songs, particularly while Hackett was still a member. By contrast, the Lindsey/Stevie version of Fleetwood Mac frankly has nothing to offer the blues purists who make up a significant chunk of Peter Green's fanbase, while I think apart from the songs you've mentioned and perhaps Man Of The World (Santana's cover of Black Magic Woman is probably better known than FM's) the Green era is largely unknown for a lot of pure Stevie/Lindsey fans.

There are some very committed FM fans like Soda and AG95 who love virtually everything Mac has done, but the impression I've got is that most people tend to definitely prefer one period for the band than others. I mostly enjoy the 1975-80 era, even with the full Rumours line up on board I can't get into the 1980s albums as much. I do admire Peter Green's work though.

[sodascouts]

Soda, I have a muscial question for you which you may find tedious but I'm interested.

You would know of the huge divisions amongst Genesis fans regarding B.C. (before Collins) and A.G. (after Gabriel) - those are my terms by the way. Is there similar hostility from fans of the Peter Green/blues era towards the Stevie/Lindsey era? Do those fans think like some very vocal (alleged) Gabriel fans that Stevie & Lindsey 'ruined' Fleetwood Mac & turned them into 'pop stars' etc etc?

My own view on this is that if you claim to like a band you should appreciate all eras. Have a preference, by all means, but don't dismiss the rest as 'rubbish' or whatever. I have only heard Albatross & Oh Well from the early days so I can't comment. I saw them play Oh Well, in fact. I thought it was great.

What makes a BIG difference with Fleetwood Mac fans is that the two main eras of the band really do not sound anything like each other.

Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac is straightforward English blues. Fans of this era typically care very little for what comes after it, even before Stevie and Lindsey entered the picture.

Fleetwood Mac started to abandon the blues almost as soon as Green left. Kiln House (1970) is an absolute mess, frankly, with Jeremy Spencer doing some kind of retro-fifties thing which jars completely with Kirwin's efforts. His music was still bluesy, but less traditionally so; Spencer's was nowhere near the blues.

That was the start of a period where in terms of sound, Fleetwood Mac had no real artistic direction. The band was being held together by its drummer and bass player, neither of whom wrote songs; Christine was the only constant songwriter. They released six albums from 1970-1974 and had five line-up changes - four of which involved major songwriters leaving / joining. They were all over the place. Once Kirwin left in 1972, the blues peeked out only on occasion; even Christine's songs were only blues-flavored rather than straight-up blues. The only praise one hears about this era is the addition of the first American member, Bob Welch, who certainly had no interest in English blues.

Then Stevie and Lindsey came, and the rest is history. (The period in the 90s where Lindsey and/or Stevie were temporarily not in the band was more of a blip on the radar and doesn't really come up in fan discussions too much, except for people who say that the two albums released during that period were underrated).

In terms of fan dynamics, which is what your original question is really about (forgive the FM history lesson lol), I agree with JCL that most of the hostility comes from the Green purists. I don't think they blame Stevie and Lindsey for ruining the band as it was already far from Green by that point (see above). Their main source of resentment is the fact that since the Rumours-era lineup was so successful, Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac is all but forgotten in many parts of the world (although still popular in the UK).

Rumours-era fans typically aren't terribly bothered by the Green fans. "Greenies" usually keep to themselves; you don't see them constantly getting in the faces of Rumours-era fans and condemning them for not appreciating Green, even if they do mutter to themselves about how far the band has "fallen" from its roots and make some snarky comments about Stevie. On the main Fleetwood Mac fan message board, the Greenies have their own section where they talk to each other about the blues and the glorious three-year period when it was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, fifty years ago now. They rarely post elsewhere. With such little interaction comes very little open conflict between the fan groups. I don't see such conflict on Facebook groups either.

My own view on this is that if you claim to like a band you should appreciate all eras.

I feel I "appreciate" all eras, but I must be frank. I do not enjoy the English blues era for the most part. I regard the Peter Green albums as having moments of brilliance ("Albatross", "I Loved Another Woman", "Stop Messin' Around", "Green Manalishi", "Man of the World", "Oh Well", "Black Magic Woman") which are surrounded by repetitive songs with little substance. Many use similar chord progressions and it's difficult to distinguish one song from the next until you get to the lyrics. The lyrics are typically a few verses of the same lines over and over (I know, that's how the blues are, but it can get tiresome and predictable). Several of Green's songs are distastefully sexist, especially "Long Grey Mare". I would never have bought those early albums if they didn't have the words "Fleetwood Mac" on their covers.

When the difference in style is so very radically different, I don't think you can blame fans from one era not wanting to listen to albums from the other era. It's not the one is more "pop" - it's that they're not even in the same genre.

[shunlvswx]

For me, I only knew about the Lindsey/Stevie era. When Bill Clinton had Don't Stop has his campaign song, that's when I first heard of Fleetwood Mac. Didn't know who they were when I heard that song, but that song was stuck in my head for months in 1992.

Same thing with Genesis. I only knew of Phil's era. I didn't know for years that Peter was in Genesis. I knew him for his crazy music videos. Most songs I heard on the radio were the songs Phil was singing lead. I don't remember ever hearing songs that Peter sang lead on.

I read Carol Harris' book early this year. Very interesting book. I kinda didn't like Lindsey for a hot second, but that didn't last of course.

[AlreadyGone95]

So, am I the lone Kiln House fan? I love Station Man, Hi Ho Silver, Blood on the Floor, and Buddy's Song. Most of the rest I like. It's not one of my favorites overall of the band, but I do like it. Plus, Christine did some beautiful art work.


I'll admit that I don't like some of the Green era stuff. I agree with Soda that it can be repetitive. To put simply, that era had some amazing pieces, Oh Well ( in my top 5 Mac songs. Lindsey does a great job singing this song as well), Rattlesnake Shake, Green Manalishi, Albatross, Black Magic Woman, and Man of the World, but they also had some real stinkers. Like most blues bands of the day, Mac did alot of covers, which to be honest, aren't all that special. I honestly don't think that the band created their niche until Then Play On, which is an amazing album. Then Peter Green left, and the revolving door of musicians began.

Here's another thing that differs from Peter vs. Phil. Fleetwood Mac added female members to their band. From my understanding, most Green era purists hated the fact that they hired John's wife, letting a woman into an all boys club? , not acceptable.

I like the in between era more than the Green era. To me, all of the 6 albums are at least good, if not great. I refer to them as forgotten semi gems. I think that all Mac fans should check out those albums. Bare Trees is the best with Danny's Chant, Welch's Sentimental Lady, Sunny Side of Heaven, and The Ghost among others. I also like really like Penguin, with (I'm a) Road Runner, The Derelict, Night Watch, and Remember Me. Mystery to Me contains the amazing Hypnotized and Why, which is one of Christine's best songs imo. The best songs on Future Games are the title track and Woman of a Thousand Years. Heroes are Hard to Find is my least favorite of the 6 albums. (It also gets my vote as the worst art work/cover of a Mac album. See this photo of you've never seen it.) It's not a bad album, but nothing really stands out on it.

I like the Rumours era best. Almost everything they released is great! Rumours is my all time favorite album. The only album that I don't love is Mirage. It's good, Gypsy and Hold Me in particular, but it just lacks something to me. The "white album" (self titled) is amazing. The only song I don't like is Sugar Daddy. Also, I prefer I'm So Afraid live, especially the 2004 live in Boston version. Lindsey rocks that song! My only complaint with Rumours is that Silver Springs isn't on it! I like Tusk, but it should have been a single album, imo. I love Lindsey, but his musical craziness/genius runs overboard on that album. Tango in the Night is great. I absolutely love Everywhere, Little Lies, and Seven Wonders. I think that Big Love works better as a Lindsey solo song (see The Dance). Say You Will is like Tusk. It's great, but it could've a single album. I love Peacekeeper, Say Goodbye, Illume (9-11), Say You Will, Murrow Turning Over in his Grave, Thrown Down and Destiny Rules. I love every song on the Extended Play ep, especially Sad Angel.

Behind the Mask is good, but I do miss Lindsey. Skies the Limit is the best song, but Affiars of the Heart and the title track aren't bad. Avoid the Time album at all costs. (What were Mick and John thinking with that album?!)

I didn't intend for this post to be so long, but with a band like Fleetwood Mac, it takes awhile to talk about all of their albums!

For the heck of it, my favorite albums are:
Rumours
Fleetwood Mac (1975)
Bare Trees
Tango in the Night
Say You Will
Extended Play (ok it's an ep, but I love it!)
Tusk
Penguin
Then Play On
Kiln House


My favorite songs are:
The Chain
I'm so Afraid
Gypsy
Peacekeeper
Oh Well
Gold Dust Woman
Everywhere
Go Your Own Way
Silver Springs
Second Hand News
Sara
Little Lies
Don't Stop
Dreams
Albatross
Man of the World
Tusk
Sad Angel
World Turning
Hypnotized
(I'm a) Road Runner
Over My Head
Say You Love Me
Say You Will
Seven Wonders

Here's my Mac collection, if anyone is interested.

ETA: I just now realized how badly my adhd affected my post, lol.

I've seen both sides of the Mac fandom make snarky comments about each other, though most stick to talking amongst themselves. Most of my online music fans like at least some Mac albums. I've discussed the band at length with those that do. Some refuse to think that the other eras contained anything decent (this is mostly the original era fans). I've learned to agree to disagree. It's only when people start insulting the other side that I believe it goes overboard. Drama will never cease to exist among Mac fans. Not with the Green vs. Rumours or the Stevie/Lindsey debate. (Who's hetter? Should they still be together? Etc)

Phils Collins was already an established member of Genesis. It was only that they couldn't find anyone else or didn't like them that he stepped up to the plate. Fleetwood Mac caused a curse on guitarists. There's also a difference in why both Peters left. Green left because of the pressure and the effect drugs had on him. That night in Munich really did a number on him. Gabriel left because of his family. He went on to have a pretty successful solo career. Sadly, for the most part, Peter Green fell by the wayside. The fact that Peter Green has largely been forgotten doesn't sit well with fans. (I myself think it's a shame). There's alot of people out there who believe that Rumours Mac is the only Mac to have ever exsisted.

[Freypower]

Thanks for those posts. It makes it easier to understand why some prefer one era over another.

[AlreadyGone95]

Soda, do you know what Stevie sings at the end of The Chain (25 years) boxset version of Gypsy? I know that it's different (and more haunting imo) than the version on Mirage. It sounds like "I still see your bright eyes, but I can't find you" with Lindsey singing "Lightning Strikes" on top. Am I close? I wonder if that bit was meant for her best friend, Robin, who died of cancer around that time.

[shunlvswx]

Soda, do you know what Stevie sings at the end of The Chain (25 years) boxset version of Gypsy? I know that it's different (and more haunting imo) than the version on Mirage. It sounds like "I still see your bright eyes, but I can't find you" with Lindsey singing "Lightning Strikes" on top. Am I close? I wonder if that bit was meant for her best friend, Robin, who died of cancer around that time.

I've heard that version on the radio every once in a while. I like the extended.

[sodascouts]

Yes - she sings "I can't find you" and it is a reference to Robin.

Have you guys listened to the Rumours rerelease early demo version of The Chain with Stevie on lead vocal and alternate lyrics/verse melody? It's mind-blowing.

[shunlvswx]

I have. Very interesting version.

[AlreadyGone95]

Yes - she sings "I can't find you" and it is a reference to Robin.

Have you guys listened to the Rumours rerelease early demo version of The Chain with Stevie on lead vocal and alternate lyrics/verse melody? It's mind-blowing.

Thanks for confirming that, Soda. I've heard that version a few times. Apart from the chorus, the song is unrecognizable! . The first time I heard it, I thought that Spotify had their wires crossed or something because it sounds nothing like the classic version. I like it. It's cool to hear it after all those years, but I don't find it mind blowing. I realize that it is a demo and is acoustic, but it doesn't pack that punch the version they went with does. Plus, I miss the harmonies, John's bass solo, and Lindsey saying "f*ck" at the beginning (I always get a smile on my face when I hear that because I know that my favorite Fleetwood Mac song is playing). It really is great to hear the demos and outtakes, though. It's nice to hear how the song progressed in the studio.