Is the King of Hollywood the strangest, coolest song or what?

[bernie's bender]

I think the lead vocal is different from any other vocal I've ever heard them do... it is a really amazing song... all the best in eagle textures, sinister, dark, and so self indicting...

Was the song about Geffen?

it is a great lick (the riff) and it is kind of interesting how it showcases Joe, Don and Glenn's most signature type licks... kind of all tied up in one song... the modulations are trick too....

[Shadowland07]

i love Glenn's solo in the song

[Freypower]

I love it. I always have loved it. I have no idea who it's about but maybe not David Geffen, given the mogul in this song is chatting up females...

The guitar solos are awesome & the vocals are fantastic - although wouldn't it have been nice if Glenn had sung the main part. As it is he does a beautiful falsetto part which is best heard on the live Long Beach version.

[bernie's bender]

I love it. I always have loved it. I have no idea who it's about but maybe not David Geffen, given the mogul in this song is chatting up females...

The guitar solos are awesome & the vocals are fantastic - although wouldn't it have been nice if Glenn had sung the main part. As it is he does a beautiful falsetto part which is best heard on the live Long Beach version.

Geffen wasn't always gay. Fo real. He bedded many a lass... before he gave up the fillies for the, uh, uh, ummm... well, yeah.

[chaim]

There's a video of someone playing the first solos on "YouTube"; the first two solos that are kind of one, but the sound changes radically when it moves from one to another in the original. In the youTube comments people are, once again, praising Don Felder for a solo that Glenn played. Don did play the second part, but he gets the credit for the first one too. People praise Don for the solos in "ICTYW". It would be nice if they just admitted that Glenn has an ear for tasty solos too; because if they knew those parts are Glenn's, would they still praise them?

[bernie's bender]

chaim,

genius post. you are so spot on.... Glenn plays some of the coolest stuff, but he is usually kind of 'shined' on in the guitar community.... it is nonsense.. but you are totally right!

[sodascouts]

Count me among those who love the guitar solos in this. Listening to the song right now.

I too think chaim's post is dead-on. Glenn's guitar playing skills are often underrated, and it doesn't help that he is so self-deprecating about them.

[pueblo47]

This discussion is killing me cuz I'm no musician, have no "ear" to tell who's singing what part, much less who's playing what<G>. So I got the booklet out but have been actually listening to the words for the first time, dang, it's blunt! And funny cuz it's true.

But anyway, I've watched Glenn do the guitar solo work in other songs and he never really "shines" as you said, he just does his thing and stays back, but his stuff makes the song as much as, if not more, than Felder in spots. He's a great guitarist to me, with my inexpertise at these things.

Just thought I'd throw in my one cent worth........:shrug:

[chaim]

By the way, if anyone thinks that I'm saying that Glenn is better than Don, I am not! It just bugs me that no one (outside the "Eagles circle") allows him-/herself to recognize good guitar stuff from Glenn, except when they think it's by someone else!

[pueblo47]

I agree with that, I wasn't saying he was better. Each guy is excellent in the parts in the song that he plays solo. But also like you said, Glenn has never been recognized for his efforts and at this late date, probably never will be........

[chaim]

I agree with that, I wasn't saying he was better. Each guy is excellent in the parts in the song that he plays solo. But also like you said, Glenn has never been recognized for his efforts and at this late date, probably never will be........

No I wasn't thinking of your post when I wrote that. In fact I wasn't thinking of anyone's post. I just wanted to explain myself BEFORE anyone misunderstands what I said :smile:

[pueblo47]

No I wasn't thinking of your post when I wrote that. In fact I wasn't thinking of anyone's post. I just wanted to explain myself BEFORE anyone misunderstands what I said :smile:

<G>we must both be paranoid cuz that's why I said that, trying to clarify what I meant.......

[chaim]

<G>we must both be paranoid cuz that's why I said that, trying to clarify what I meant.......

Looks like we are...

[bernie's bender]

pueblo,

if you wanna learn to 'hear' how the boys sound so that you can identify them...

Get Joe Walsh's "You Can't Argue with a sick mind"

(this isolates the guitars to just Joe and Don)

You can hear Joe's guitar voice.. it is very plaintive (they both use phase shifters, a pedal that they stomp on) but if you listen with headphones, they have the parts split... once you can hear Joe's guitar voice, you'll hear Don's too...

Pretty much every 'lick' that those two know, they play on the songs on this record...

From this record, you can hear what their guitar contributions are to the Eagles! From there, you can use a 'subtractive' approach and then you can hear what Glenn brings....

among guitar and rock snobs--> Joe is considered 'a classic voice' and a mensch who is always consdidered a 'great guy' and is pretty universally admired. Felder is considered super talented and the guy who got the shaft and Frey is considered an opportunist and hack guitar player.

All of it is cartoonish and silly (if you ask me) Glenn gets down (as do Joe and Don) but the thought that they aren't all really cool in their own right is just wrong...

This song (especially as the song modulates) is just such an encyclopedia of how the guys approach their playing... just cool!

[EaglesFanatic]

Okay, so I made a bet with someone that thinks that Timothy sings King Of Hollywood. I say no way! So who exactly sings this song. Glenn? Also, are there any videos of them performing this song?

[EaglesFanatic]

Never mind! I found the answer. :laugh:

[sodascouts]

That's OK, EF - we all gotta learn sometime! lol

Before the days of the internet which enables us to find answers to most questions like that in seconds, I remember being puzzled as to who sang "Take It to the Limit" since it didn't sound like any of the guys I had seen on Hell Freezes Over, which had precipitated my purchasing of Their Greatest Hits in the first place. "I especially love this song 'Take It to the Limit,' but which one sings it?" I was so ignorant back then!

[Maidstone]

Wait - so who does sing the lead vocals on King of Hollywood? :???:

I always thought it was Don with Glenn doing some backup.

I'm confused. And I do LOVE this song. So smarmy. I used to live in Hollywood and listened to this song all the time. So accurate of all the a-hole movie/record industry guys out there.

I really like that entire album.

[MikeA]

It was Glenn and Don with Glenn I think doing the lions share. But what attracts me so much about that song is the guitar work. Glenn starts it out with that haunting lead-in....in some ways reminiscent of "I Dreamed There Was No War". Not the melody or the key, but the simple brilliance of the lead that sets the tone for the entire song.

Felder kicks in with a solo (around 3:35 into the song) and then Joe wraps it up (around 5:25) with his solo!

All three of the guitarists of the Eagles (not counting Don Henley)! Beautiful!

[Freypower]

The lead vocals on KOH are sung by Don Henley doing the lower, main part which includes the part he sings by himself ('after 'while nothin' looked pretty') while Glenn sings the falsetto part on the top. The falsetto part is not that easy to hear unless you have heard the Long Beach version, which I obviously prefer, where it is easier to pick out.

[MikeA]

The lead vocals on KOH are sung by Don Henley doing the lower, main part which includes the part he sings by himself ('after 'while nothin' looked pretty') while Glenn sings the falsetto part on the top. The falsetto part is not that easy to hear unless you have heard the Long Beach version, which I obviously prefer, where it is easier to pick out.

You could have fooled me FP. That sounded so much like Glenn on the lower part. But like I said, I'm basically tone-deaf.

[Scarlet Sun]

I always thought it was Don singing both low and high parts and Glenn singing only "he's calling." It was a pleasant surprise to learn otherwise

[Freypower]

To me the lyric is far more 'Don' than 'Glenn' and that indicates that he's singing it. There is a particular way his accent sounds. Our Don fans will tell you about the ecstatic reaction the line 'we're gonna take care of you darlin'' gets at Long Beach. Much as I love Glenn I just don't think it could be him. He has to be doing the falsetto part though, or why would he receive a co lead vocal credit.

I agree with the comments about the music - it has been my second favourite track on the album since I heard it.

[sodascouts]

Like SS, on first listen, I assumed Don sang lead and Glenn backed him. It wasn't until I read the liner notes and saw it billed as a shared lead that I realized it was Glenn doing falsetto and singing throughout.

Don is far more prominent on this song, I think, at least to me.

[Scarlet Sun]

Like SS, on first listen, I assumed Don sang lead and Glenn backed him. It wasn't until I read the liner notes and saw it billed as a shared lead that I realized it was Glenn doing falsetto and singing throughout.

Don is far more prominent on this song, I think, at least to me.
I read the liner notes beforehand but was mistaken anyway

[MikeA]

Well dog-gone it, Don sounds so much like Glenn on that he should have just let Glenn sing it <LOL>. Hey...just yanking your chains!

But listen to "You Belong To The City" and sort of compare the vocals. You'll see what I mean.

[Maidstone]

Okay - I listened to it again and it's soooo Don singing the low parts. That's his accent/the way he speaks. Especially like Freypower said - "we're gonna take care of you darlin'" that is soooo Don.

And then you hear "Freaks don't need no Geeks" and it's Don singing in his high voice.

I believe I like the sultry low voice singing Don, myself. Yummmm - sexy!

pft.
Happy Halloweenie!
Maid

[chaim]

It's funny, when I was a teenager and rather green in all things Eagles, I assumed that Glenn (who was my hero) was doing the cool sounding low part. Later I realized it's Don. I think the low part sounds like Don throughout, but there are some tiny bits that could be no-one but Don Henley. :nod:

some bits that that sound sooooo Don to me (in capitals):

"Well, he sits up thERE"
"I made 'em what they are toDAY"

The falsetto part is indeed very low in the mix, but there are a couple of places where I think I can kind of hear, or "really feel" Glenn:

"power JUNKY"
"the MAN JUST ISN'T"

[EaglesFanatic]

some bits that that sound sooooo Don to me (in capitals):

"Well, he sits up thERE"
"I made 'em what they are toDAY"

I totally agree, those parts are so Don. I always thought the lower parts were Don, but I didn't know Glenn sang falsetto in any songs... Hmm maybe I've just never paid attention to it :shrug:

[Freypower]

I totally agree, those parts are so Don. I always thought the lower parts were Don, but I didn't know Glenn sang falsetto in any songs... Hmm maybe I've just never paid attention to it :shrug:

He sings falsetto in a couple of solo songs - Somebody Else, Let's Go Home, Living In Darkness, Delicious. The fans are divided on their opinions of this. I generally like the falsetto.

It never occurred to me to compare the vocals of KOH with the vocals of YBTTC but now that Mike has done it I see what he means. I actually would like Glenn to try this type of lower register singing more often. After all his harmonies with the Eagles now are at the low end (listen to WITW & LROOE).

In KOH in the Long Beach version the 'power junkie' line is when you hear him clearly apart from the 'he's callin'' bit which is the only part of the song in which he is more prominent.

I guess the Long Run album where he has one full song and two 'half' songs (KOH & Teenage Jail) is an improvement on Hotel California where he had one song & OOTN where he had one & a half. I wish he had not allowed the number of leads he had to vanish the way he did. Just the way he is doing it now with the live shows. He is better than he seems to think. :sad:

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Very interesting discussion! I just love this song. Yeah, I know it is very sleazy, but it just proves that sleaze can be done in very good taste! :thumbsup: Great lyrics, guitar work, vocals, and arrangement. What can I say - great band!!! :wink: :nod:

[Outlawman13]

I always wanted to know who did this song. LOL now I know. That song is so awesome. Don and Glenn's voices are so perfect together.

[Houston Debutante]

You know I always thought this was a Don lead with Glenn harmonizing, guess I should have paid more attention.

[desperado]

I've listened to this song 32 times in the past week. I am in awe of the guitar solo, is that Don Felder? Thanks :)

[Freypower]

I've listened to this song 32 times in the past week. I am in awe of the guitar solo, is that Don Felder? Thanks :)

There are three guitar solos. The first is by Frey, the second by Felder & the third by Walsh.

This is the existing topic about the song:

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2455

[desperado]

There are three guitar solos. The first is by Frey, the second by Felder & the third by Walsh.

This is the existing topic about the song:

https://www.eaglesonlinecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2455


Freypower, many thanks for sharing the above thread (it was before my time on this forum)

Glenn's intro solo is beautiful! I was referring to Don Felder's solo (listening again now).... Waiting for Joe Walsh's solo at around 5:25. Lots of good stuff on that thread!

[desperado]

bumping this up

what a great group you guys are, contributing to this awesome thread!

i'm hooked on this song. gorgeous guitar work!

[sodascouts]

I merged the threads, in case anyone's wondering! lol

[chaim]

Freypower, many thanks for sharing the above thread (it was before my time on this forum)

Glenn's intro solo is beautiful! I was referring to Don Felder's solo (listening again now).... Waiting for Joe Walsh's solo at around 5:25. Lots of good stuff on that thread!

I believe the intro could have been played by all of them (Glenn, Don and Joe). One of them starts (most likely Glenn), another guy joins later with a harmony, and then finally, the third harmony. They could all have been played by Glenn, but since there isn't much happening in the song rhythm guitarwise, it's possible that the three of them played that harmonized riff when they were cutting the basic track live. Anyway, the credits say that the first solo is Glenn's, but the intro is not a solo. Glenn's solo starts when the song modulates, and ends when it returns to the original key and Don plays a few licks. (If I'm wrong and Don played both of these - starting from the modulation - he played them with a different guitar and a very different sound. But this would mean that they thought of the intro as the first "solo". I very much doubt it, since it's a riff, not a solo.)

[Freypower]

I believe the intro could have been played by all of them (Glenn, Don and Joe). One of them starts (most likely Glenn), another guy joins later with a harmony, and then finally, the third harmony. They could all have been played by Glenn, but since there isn't much happening in the song rhythm guitarwise, it's possible that the three of them played that harmonized riff when they were cutting the basic track live. Anyway, the credits say that the first solo is Glenn's, but the intro is not a solo. Glenn's solo starts when the song modulates, and ends when it returns to the original key and Don plays a few licks. (If I'm wrong and Don played both of these - starting from the modulation - he played them with a different guitar and a very different sound. But this would mean that they thought of the intro as the first "solo". I very much doubt it, since it's a riff, not a solo.)

I quoted the liner notes, that's all. I would not have a clue who plays what there but if the Eagles themselves decided to describe it as a 'solo' who am I to argue with them. :eyebrow:

[Prettymaid]

Well, I know one thing. Revisiting this thread has given me an appreciation of this song that I never had. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm far from loving it - but let's just say I'm being swayed, and that's what I love about this board.

[chaim]

I quoted the liner notes, that's all. I would not have a clue who plays what there but if the Eagles themselves decided to describe it as a 'solo' who am I to argue with them. :eyebrow:

I was saying that to Desperado, not you; referring to "Glenn's intro solo" and "Don's solo" that was mentioned. I should have "quoted" that post so that people would know who I was talking to.
And (I thought this was obvious) my point was not to "argue" with them. It was that I don't think they would have described that main riff as a solo, because it isn't a solo any more than the Life In The Fast Lane riff is a solo. PLUS that first actual solo has two parts with a different guitar and sound, so I believe it switches to Don at one point. One of the guitarists - don't remember who - once said in an interview that they all played solos in this song, and used the best bits (whoever played them) in every section.
But I have said all this before. I just wanted to suggest to Desperado that the intro isn't necessarily the "first solo" mentioned in the credits.

EDIT:

And anyway, don't the Victim Of Love credits say "guitar solo: Joe Walsh"? (referring to the actual solo after the second chorus) At least I remember it that way. So if Don's eight-bar intro with a million bends wasn't considered a solo, why would the two-bar (just repeated many times) King Of Hollywood intro riff be a "solo". Oh well, I suppose this is stuff that only guitar freaks like me care about.

[ThePerfectBeast]

Always loved this song , got the impression it was about the music business in general and the feel of it seemed to sum up the mood of the band at the time for me.Nice to know many other like the track as well :)

[Troubadour]

I totally agree with you, PB!

[Henley Honey]

At the NYU Songwriter's Hall of Fame Masters Series, Glenn said that King of Hollywood was about a TV/Movie producer named Robert Evans.

Soda put up this link to Wikipedia in that thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Evans_%28producer%29

[Prettymaid]

Wow! I can't believe he named names! And the guy's still alive? Lawsuit! :hilarious:

[thelongrun]

Underrated Song is the word. Is a great piece!! ;)

[sad-cafe]

I love the message and the music in this song.

I LOVE harmony and cool musical things and this one has it all.

[Prettymaid]

Actually, there's no harmony in this song. Glenn is singing in the same key as Don, only an octave higher.

I really like this song musically, and I think the vibe of the music goes well with the lyrics. I just don't like the subject matter. I can listen to it once in awhile, but not often. I feel like I need to bathe after listening to it. :eyebrow:

[chaim]

Actually, there's no harmony in this song. Glenn is singing in the same key as Don, only an octave higher.

I really like this song musically, and I think the vibe of the music goes well with the lyrics. I just don't like the subject matter. I can listen to it once in awhile, but not often. I feel like I need to bathe after listening to it. :eyebrow:

Well, there is the "he's calling..." bit that is done in harmony, but it isn't much. Maybe Sad-cafe meant the harmonized guitars?

[TimothyBFan]

I've said before, this is one of my favorite Eagles songs (in my top 5). I love the music, I love the lyrics, etc.... I guess I just love sleaze!! :hilarious: The lyrics just make you feel how sleazy this guy and this business is. Perfect!!!

[Prettymaid]

Well, there is the "he's calling..." bit that is done in harmony, but it isn't much. Maybe Sad-cafe meant the harmonized guitars?

Good point!

[sad-cafe]

yes. I'm sorry, I meant the music harmony guitars and things. I love it

[Houston Debutante]

Actually, there's no harmony in this song. Glenn is singing in the same key as Don, only an octave higher.

I really like this song musically, and I think the vibe of the music goes well with the lyrics. I just don't like the subject matter. I can listen to it once in awhile, but not often. I feel like I need to bathe after listening to it. :eyebrow:

The octave thing is an interesting and unusual choice, it gives it an eerie vibe. I agree about the icky subject matter being unpleasant, but I think the song is well done.

[Brooke]

I love it! Sleaze or not, I really don't pay that much attention to the lyrics. I love the guitars! It's dark, moody, sexy!

[sad-cafe]

I love it too.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Don's rants and I agree with them 99.9% of the time~

[TimothyBFan]

I love it too.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Don's rants and I agree with them 99.9% of the time~

ME TOO!!! ME TOO!!!!

[bluefox4000]

Believe it or not......I've sold many a person on the Eagles with this tune:hilarious:

I freakin' love it.

Mick

[sad-cafe]

ME TOO!!! ME TOO!!!!


kindred spirits!

[Freypower]

yes. I'm sorry, I meant the music harmony guitars and things. I love it


Don't forget the 'ah ah ah' stuff at the end. Those are harmonies.

[Windeagle]

The octave thing is an interesting and unusual choice, it gives it an eerie vibe. I agree about the icky subject matter being unpleasant, but I think the song is well done.

It's not even just the octave thing. It's Glenn going high and Don going low, which is the opposite of how they normally sing. It makes the eerie vibe sound even stranger to someone who is used to "traditional" Eagles harmony. The song is not one of my favorites, but I do enjoy it simply because it's a bit different.

[UndertheWire]

Old thread time. I love this song and the way it's put together from the introductory guitars on.

To summarise what I've got from this thread:

1) the lead vocals are sung by Don Henley and Glenn Frey together with Henley louder in the mix and Glenn singing an octave higher, something that's clearer in the Long Beach bootleg.

2) At first hearing, there are two guitar solos with one starting at 3:35 and another at 5:45. However, the liner notes credit three solos, Glenn, Don F and Joe in that order. Toni (chaim) puts forward the idea that the first solo is actually in two parts with a different guitar sounds and I agree there's a change around the 4:00 (or maybe 3:55) and the guitar becomes smoother and sweeter. For me, it's plausible that Glenn plays the first part and Don the second.

The guitars I really love are when there's more than one playing the same riff (eg at 5:02) - I'm guessing all three guitarists.

[Funk 50]

Despite Tim joining Eagles without any audition, he and Henley create one helluva groove for King Of Hollywood. As Eagles grooves go, it's one of the best:smile:

[scottside]

Old thread time. I love this song and the way it's put together from the introductory guitars on.

To summarise what I've got from this thread:

1) the lead vocals are sung by Don Henley and Glenn Frey together with Henley louder in the mix and Glenn singing an octave higher, something that's clearer in the Long Beach bootleg.

2) At first hearing, there are two guitar solos with one starting at 3:35 and another at 5:45. However, the liner notes credit three solos, Glenn, Don F and Joe in that order. Toni (chaim) puts forward the idea that the first solo is actually in two parts with a different guitar sounds and I agree there's a change around the 4:00 (or maybe 3:55) and the guitar becomes smoother and sweeter. For me, it's plausible that Glenn plays the first part and Don the second.

The guitars I really love are when there's more than one playing the same riff (eg at 5:02) - I'm guessing all three guitarists.

I could never figure out what part Glenn was playing because I always heard just two parts. Now I'm going to have to go back and listen again to see what I missed!

[chaim]

It's not just a change in the guitar tone. At 3:44 mark you can hear a "rake", which had been Glenn's "trademark" since the beginning. A "rake" is when the plectrum goes (downwards) through strings before arriving on the actual string with the actual note. The strings that are "raked" are muted, so you only hear this quick "drrr" sound before the actual note.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xdnmEqIAHU

Also, I like UndertheWire's choice of adjectives (smoother and sweeter) about the brief part that I think is Don. Perfectly put.

[Eagles7]

Wow, so I was just looking on line through the box set to see what was included on those discs, and found this song and listened for the first time to it. Crazy stuff!

I remember Bob Evans from stuff like Love Story and urban Cowboy. Ali McGraw was his most famous wife, but when I looked in the link about him, it said he had 7!! Nobody stayed with him more than a few years...in fact, one wife had the marriage annulled after 9 days, so he must have been a real winner!

Thanks for the breakdown on the guitar solos..nice work by all three. I think the opening riffs, that are repeated later in the song are the solo attributed to Glenn. Then the 3 minute solo sounds like classic Felder and then someone said Joe comes in at 5 min.

Very unique piece..enjoyed it...feel like I need to go take a bath now though..hhhaahaha..j/k

[chaim]

Wow, so I was just looking on line through the box set to see what was included on those discs, and found this song and listened for the first time to it. Crazy stuff!

I remember Bob Evans from stuff like Love Story and urban Cowboy. Ali McGraw was his most famous wife, but when I looked in the link about him, it said he had 7!! Nobody stayed with him more than a few years...in fact, one wife had the marriage annulled after 9 days, so he must have been a real winner!

Thanks for the breakdown on the guitar solos..nice work by all three. I think the opening riffs, that are repeated later in the song are the solo attributed to Glenn. Then the 3 minute solo sounds like classic Felder and then someone said Joe comes in at 5 min.

Very unique piece..enjoyed it...feel like I need to go take a bath now though..hhhaahaha..j/k

When you play a riff you don't get a guitar solo credit. Personally I think it's possible they are all (the guitarists) playing the riff, as there's one main guitar with two guitars harmonizing. Perhaps they played those parts when they were cutting the basic tracks live.

[Jonny Come Lately]

I tend to agree that it's most likely that Glenn plays the solo from 3:35 to 3:58-ish, then Don F takes over from the four minute mark until 4:15, going by the timings on my MP3 file. The intro riff isn't a solo, and it would seem unlikely to me that the Eagles, who have guitar solos of some form on so many of their songs, would credit something that wasn't a solo as one. I'm afraid I don't know who is playing the rhythm parts, or which guitar they are using, this would be useful for determining definitely who is doing what.

[YoungEaglesFan]

I love King Of Hollywood musically, including the vocals from Don and Glenn. But lyrically I don't care for it anymore. When a musician takes a person from another profession (obvious target: the movie world) and bashes him, I find it pretty lame since musicians aren't above treating other people badly when they feel they have "made it" and therefore are entitled to a higher status in the society. The guy in the song is talking to a woman in a condescending way, but were they above that kind of behavior themselves - at least when it came to groupies? I get the same feeling when I hear "Filmstar" by Suede (a band I love). It could as easily be called "Rockstar".

I guess I'd vote for KOH nevertheless, although GDIH is very important in the Eagles history, because it was the first song Don Felder played on (with fire).

EDIT:

I know that the subject matter in KOH is not the same as a rock musician and groupies, but when it comes to feeling you're above someone and treating them accordingly, they are similar. KOH's subject matter does seem relevant at the moment, but there seem to be more recent stories about musicians treating women badly. But I guess there aren't many rock musicians who would write a song about rock musicians being *******s to women - except when they brag about it in a humorous way.

Well I feel treating a groupie that way vs an actress is much more different. The way the guys treated women was often how they wanted to be treated. Important to note i said often not always but there was usually equal abuse of each other. But to treat an actress that way is not similar

[Freypower]

Well I feel treating a groupie that way vs an actress is much more different. The way the guys treated women was often how they wanted to be treated. Important to note i said often not always but there was usually equal abuse of each other. But to treat an actress that way is not similar

I have no intention of opening up a can of worms with this. It could go anywhere. But I feel I should state that groupies are women too, regardless of how they 'wanted' to be treated. This appears to be saying that actresses are somewhat higher beings.

[Freypower]

I get this being a tricky issue. Any person is afforded some level of respect but the groupies the guys usually encountered weren’t there to be taken seriously. An actress however wants to be taken seriously. What I’m saying is people who are in a professional setting vs people at a party shouldn’t have the same expections of treatment. That is all

Here we go.

ALL women deserve to be treated with respect, whether they are 'at a party' or not. ALL women deserve to be 'taken seriously'.

What a statement. I'm walking away from this now before I start to get angry. I also have no wish to derail this topic further.

[Delilah]

Well I feel treating a groupie that way vs an actress is much more different. The way the guys treated women was often how they wanted to be treated. Important to note i said often not always but there was usually equal abuse of each other. But to treat an actress that way is not similar


:stunned:

I thought the implication that Henley’s attitude towards Felder should decide whether or not to include a song on a compilation was a bit odd, but this?

I really don’t think such easy generalizations can be made about this subject. I’m sure there are groupies who made choices they don’t regret but still there are others who were humiliated and demeaned and treated like yesterday's garbage after they were used up. Surely you are not saying this is how they wanted to be treated by their idols. I can only guess you haven’t read up much about groupies (not that I’m an expert myself but geez).

[Delilah]

Here we go.

ALL women deserve to be treated with respect, whether they are 'at a party' or not. ALL women deserve to be 'taken seriously'.

What a statement. I'm walking away from this now before I start to get angry. I also have no wish to derail this topic further.

ITA and I’m going to do the same.

[YoungEaglesFan]

:stunned:

I thought the implication that Henley’s attitude towards Felder should decide whether or not to include a song on a compilation was a bit odd, but this?

I really don’t think such easy generalizations can be made about this subject. I’m sure there are groupies who made choices they don’t regret but still there are others who were humiliated and demeaned and treated like yesterday's garbage after they were used up. Surely you are not saying this is how they wanted to be treated by their idols. I can only guess you haven’t read up much about groupies (not that I’m an expert myself but geez).

Well I’m sure the guys regret how they treated them as well. But I think at the time they did what they wanted to do. (This of course is a generalization I cannot speak for most/ all of them). They chose to go to the parties and a lot of them threw them selves at the guys in band. Mistakes were made obviously but again I’m merely stating that there is a difference in treatment between people in your professional life and ones in your personal one.

[Funk 50]

If I'm reading the comments correctly, I feel the need to post an objection too. Everybody is entitled to be treated with respect. Nobody should be expected to accept being treated badly. Sorry I'm no help with your compilation, YoungEaglesFan. :shrug:

[YoungEaglesFan]

:stunned:

I thought the implication that Henley’s attitude towards Felder should decide whether or not to include a song on a compilation was a bit odd, but this?

I really don’t think such easy generalizations can be made about this subject. I’m sure there are groupies who made choices they don’t regret but still there are others who were humiliated and demeaned and treated like yesterday's garbage after they were used up. Surely you are not saying this is how they wanted to be treated by their idols. I can only guess you haven’t read up much about groupies (not that I’m an expert myself but geez).

This will be my last comment on the topic as you and FP are correct it’s off topic. Any further comments I’ll accept in private messaging. But I agree this is a generalization and of course it won’t apply to everyone. I am basing my knowledge of the groupie band relations off Felders book. This is the best source I can think of in terms of groupies specific to the Eagles. In the book groupies were depicted as doing whatever the guys wanted just to please them. Whenever someone was invited to an after party it was pretty clear what was going to happen. Though I’m sure that some went and didn’t like what happened at the parties. I’m not here to justify their actions, what I’m saying is that if you treat women the way they did at 3E parties it was behavior that was both normal and common in that setting. But if you treated someone like that in a professiona setting it is both NOT common and NOT normal to do so. If for example Don treated Stevie Nicks that way during the recording of Leather and Lace it would be more wrong to treat her like that at a party in which that type of behavior is more common. Both not good but one is worse than the other

[YoungEaglesFan]

If I'm reading the comments correctly, I feel the need to post an objection too. Everybody is entitled to be treated with respect. Nobody should be expected to accept being treated badly. Sorry I'm no help with your compilation, YoungEaglesFan. :shrug:

I happen to agree because I said everyone should be treated with respect. But they shouldn’t be treated the same way in every scenario. Context matters

[chaim]

YoungEaglesFan, I did say I don't find the KOF lyrics problematic. I just don't like that kind of finger-pointing myself. From where I'm standing rock musicians don't seem to be above treating women with disrespect any more than movie producers. There's no "more/less deserving of respect" for me when it comes to women. I just don't care hearing a musician sing about a movie producer treating a woman with disrespect. Very simple.

I love KOH and I love listening to it. I love the riff, the arrangement, the guitar solos, the vocals, the atmosphere...I don't hate the lyrics and they don't stop me from loving the song. I just don't care for the lyrics.

You say: "The way the guys treated women was often how they wanted to be treated." "Often"? This means that often they didn't want it. But, in your words, I don't want to argue about this. I just said how I feel.

[YoungEaglesFan]

YoungEaglesFan, I did say I don't find the KOF lyrics problematic. I just don't like that kind of finger-pointing myself. From where I'm standing rock musicians don't seem to be above treating women with disrespect any more than movie producers. There's no "more/less deserving of respect" for me when it comes to women. I don't care hearing a musician sing about a movie producer treating a woman with disrespect.

I love KOH and I love listening to it. I love the riff, the arrangement, the guitar solos, the vocals, the atmosphere...I don't hate the lyrics and they don't stop me from loving the song. I just don't care for the lyrics.

You say: "The way the guys treated women was often how they wanted to be treated." "Often"? This means that often they didn't want it. But, in your words, don't want to argue about this. I just said how I feel.
Sorry for misunderstanding your comments Chaim.

[chaim]

Sorry for misunderstanding your comments Chaim.

No problem. It's just how I feel. I don't know, perhaps this was the wrong thread to talk about it, but there it is.

[YoungEaglesFan]

No problem. It's just how I feel. I don't know, perhaps this was the wrong thread to talk about it, but there it is.

I get your comments about how you don’t like a song about that. It’s what I would call an icky song. I don’t like the feeling of it

[chaim]

I get your comments about how you don’t like a song about that. It’s what I would call an icky song. I don’t like the feeling of it

I realize now that it may have seemed that because I don't care for the lyrics I didn't want the song to go on the compilation this thread is about. This wasn't what I meant. It's a great song and I would include it in a personal Eagles compilation. Me "ranting" about the lyrics had nothing to do with the compilation.

[UndertheWire]

Discussion of King of Hollywood took another thread off track but it did get me thinking about the lyrics more than I have done before.

I already knew that it was about producer Robert Evans and his use of the casting couch. I also know that Don dated actresses and that he and Glenn would presumably have heard all about this seedy side of Hollywood from them. The song is sympathetic of the actresses and critical of the producer and that's fine.

But then Toni (chaim) commented that he finds it hard to take the finger-pointing from Don. I see his point and on some of Don's songs, I feel the same, but not with this one. I think it's partly that there's no ambiguity: producers demanding sexual favours from actresses (or actors) is wrong, regardless of what the person writing about may have done themselves. Whereas when Don writes about the media, politics, the environment etc, it's less clear cut and we may question the qualification and motives of the writer.

Where the song falls short is that they appear to despise the producer more for his impotence than for his abuse of power. It's written with the arrogance of youngish men who think that women want them for themselves rather than as a means of furthering their ambition. I wonder how their views changed as they became older and less desirable.*

I'll add that there is a big difference between the producer/actress and rockstar/groupie scenario and it's not about respect, it's whether the sex is a means to an end or the end itself. Of course, under-age groupies is a different discussion.

*I've heard Glenn give an introduction to Lyin' Eyes where he said he now had experience of both male perspectives. Clearly he was concious that he'd become "a rich, old guy".

[Pippinwhite]

@UTW: Interesting take on this. I'd say KOH is actually one of the more enlightened songs taking on this issue, particularly for the times. And while there certainly is the vibe of "We're young and virile," there's also the underlying current (IMHO) of despising him because of his massive ego, him using these girls, and obviously demanding their respect for his "stuff," even though he's clearly lacking in that department.

It's a creepy little song and I'm glad for the guitar parts. They remind me this is an Eagles song and the slime can be washed off. LOLOL.

[shunlvswx]

I was trying to go back and see if I've comment on this post. I didn't.

I actually like King Of Hollywood now. It is kinda strange, but I like melody.

[YoungEaglesFan]

Discussion of King of Hollywood took another thread off track but it did get me thinking about the lyrics more than I have done before.

I already knew that it was about producer Robert Evans and his use of the casting couch. I also know that Don dated actresses and that he and Glenn would presumably have heard all about this seedy side of Hollywood from them. The song is sympathetic of the actresses and critical of the producer and that's fine.

But then Toni (chaim) commented that he finds it hard to take the finger-pointing from Don. I see his point and on some of Don's songs, I feel the same, but not with this one. I think it's partly that there's no ambiguity: producers demanding sexual favours from actresses (or actors) is wrong, regardless of what the person writing about may have done themselves. Whereas when Don writes about the media, politics, the environment etc, it's less clear cut and we may question the qualification and motives of the writer.

Where the song falls short is that they appear to despise the producer more for his impotence than for his abuse of power. It's written with the arrogance of youngish men who think that women want them for themselves rather than as a means of furthering their ambition. I wonder how their views changed as they became older and less desirable.*

I'll add that there is a big difference between the producer/actress and rockstar/groupie scenario and it's not about respect, it's whether the sex is a means to an end or the end itself. Of course, under-age groupies is a different discussion.

*I've heard Glenn give an introduction to Lyin' Eyes where he said he now had experience of both male perspectives. Clearly he was concious that he'd become "a rich, old guy".

I’d like to say that your mention as sex as an means to itself is exactly my feeling. I was in a time rush and without much thought used respect. That was a bad word for numerous reasons. You summed up how i felt on it well

[YoungEaglesFan]

I never cared for how long the intro to the song is and the lyrics to the song. There is definitely some upside to the song but I felt it was incomplete in senses

[EagleInKansas]

KOH is one of my favorite Eagles songs. I think, musically especially, it is vastly underrated. The bass-line is absolutely killer, especially following the line "After while, everything got lost." It's right up there with Hotel California in a musical sense for me, though not on the same level as HC either lyrically or thematically.

[chaim]

The word "groupie" was a mistake on my part. The recent examples I was thinking of (cases that happened long after KOH was written) were cases where the women weren't groupies. Someone mentioned (forgot already who and it's not important IMO) that KOH is relevant again, and I guess that's what I reacted to. One producer has been accused of abuse, but even more musicians have been accused recently. Apparently one musician put his genital in the girl's mouth against her will. So I guess I was thinking more about the current "relevance" than the song itself. Still don't care for the finger-pointing though.

[sodascouts]

I moved the off-topic posts from the other thread to this one.

[The Silk Scarf Monkey]

I'm in the midst of a true King of Hollywood phase, or maybe I'd better call it an obsession. The last two days it's all I listened to, I think I've played the song a good 25 times now over and over again over this timespan. And at the moment I can't listen to any other song, because anything else sounds heavy. I have never had this before with a song. It made me wonder. Could one call King of Hollywood "gothic rock"? I know Lullaby by The Cure is in this genre.

[sodascouts]

Not really. I think a song can fit some of the same characteristics as gothic rock without really falling under that umbrella.

[Ive always been a dreamer]

I agree with Soda - Gothic rock entails more than just lyrics. The genre is accompanied by image, attitude, atmosphere, and theatrics. Although the Eagles did occasionally write some dark lyrics, I don't think they ever embraced a gothic style. In fact, quite the contrary - they were never about theatrics.

[The Silk Scarf Monkey]

I have to agree on that. The Eagles put all sorts of sentiments and emotions in their songs, but they never get theatrical, except for maybe a couple of songs, but It's Your World Now catches a whole other sentiment with a beautiful message and it served so well as (one of) Glenn's anthem(s).