New York Dolls

[Cosmic Cowboy]

Kinda strange name for a topic, but I was wondering if anyone has any info on the time the Eagles denounced the New York Dolls in New York City? I've seen something about it somewhere saying it could have been one of the reasons the mainstream press was unfavorable to the Eagles, as the New York Dolls were the media darlings at the time. I can't stand bands like the Dolls or Kiss that only get popular with how they dress and have no musical talent. I get to write my final essay for my college humanities class over the Eagles as an art form, and I was just wondering about that incident.

[sodascouts]

It's telling that I'd never heard of this group outside of the fact that they were publicly dissed by the Eagles. When I get a chance, I'll look it up and see if I can't find the article where I read about it.

[dewlover]

What kind of wanker would put down a band they know nothing about??

When did you see the NYD perform?

Do you know who is in the band?

Can you name any of their songs?

HENLEY = DOUCHE

[Freypower]

As far as I remember it was Frey who made the comment.

[GettheLeadonOut!!]

Do you know who is in the band?



Yes. Buster Poindexter




Can you name any of their songs?



Yes. "Hot!Hot!Hot!"

[dewlover]

Just as i suspected, this MB has a bunch of know nothings like "GettheLeadonOut!!", who is wrong on both counts...

[EagleLady]

Just as i suspected, this MB has a bunch of know nothings like "GettheLeadonOut!!", who is wrong on both counts...

Whoa! Uncalled for.

[dewlover]

Yeah OK Lady, so i guess that means you think this...

"I can't stand bands like the Dolls or Kiss that only get popular with how they dress and have no musical talent."

WAS called for???

[EagleLady]

I don't agree with that but That person is entitled to his/her opinion.... I'm not gonna call him a Know nothing...

[dewlover]

So he is entitled to his opinion, but when i express mine, you object...Yeah right...

[Ive always been a dreamer]

So he is entitled to his opinion, but when i express mine, you object...Yeah right...

First of all welcome to The Border, dewlover. I will try to address your concern here. You are entitled to express your opinion on this board as long as it is done in a respectful and courteous manner. However, resorting to personal attacks, name-calling, and other rude behavior is a no-no here. Also, keep in mind that you can respectfully express an opinion, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t be challenged by others.

[dewlover]

So let me get this straight again, in the world of Eagles fans, attacking other bands w/comments like they have "no musical talent", is being "respectful" and "courteous"???...Nor is it making a "personal attack" on another artist??...I must say, that is quite interesting hogwash...Plus you speak to people like they're children here??

Something tells me i won't be able stomach this MB for very long...

[Ive always been a dreamer]

Saying that a band has no musical talent is a subjective opinion. It was not presented in an contentious, inflammatory manner. You are free to respectfully disagree with that opinion. However, it is generally considered very discourteous in our society to call other people "wanker, douche, or know nothings".

If you are genuinely interested in participating in reasonable discussions or debates, you'll find that there are lots of willing friendly people that will welcome you here. However, what our society generally considers to be beligerent, condescending, rude, or disrespectful behavior is not tolerated here.

If you would like further clarification, you are welcome to PM me.

[sodascouts]

Woah, chill, dewlover! Are you related to one of the band members or something?

[GettheLeadonOut!!]

If Bernie was here he would tell dewlover to chill and poor a beer over his head.

And David Johanson of the NYDs IS Buster Poindexter, and I am not a fan.

[tequila girl]

If Bernie was here he would tell dewlover to chill and poor a beer over his head.

:applause: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious: :hilarious:

[sodascouts]

And David Johanson of the NYDs IS Buster Poindexter, and I am not a fan.

He shoots, he scores!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrhf_zgtmAg

[Lisa]

O.K. I'm reading through this...believe it or not, I saw David Johansen perform with his solo band when I was still in college--he performed at the college--in about 1980. My friends were all psyched to go and see him, and I was a little skeptical, at first. I went to the show with my guitar-hero virtuoso college boyfriend. (I had two free tickets to go and see this show)! David Johansen was an outright surprise--a knock-'em-out--knock-'em-down charismatic solo lead singing talent in a 7,000 seat college auditorium. His persona--his stage act--was both idiosyrchratically boy-next-door-in-high-school American, and really all his own idea of what that is. He could sing. He did sing hits and covers. The crowd ended up singing along. No one missed a moment of his show once he took the stage. No one turned away from the performace until he was finished with his last encore. Amazingly, convincingly, definitively charismatic.
Before I saw him perfom (solo career)--I thought he'd be too heavy, overstated, punk or new wave; and I didn't know whether he was otherwise musical--but--that year--he really was a mainstream act, and he actually could sing.
I don't truly subscribe to every nuance in celebrity interview comments, myself--when it comes to opinions; opinions change. Times change. What's in and out of fashion changes. And, interviews are --well--from a given time in a career. Interviews do sell, and they do generate opinions, and they're also social and popular tools for promoting entertainment.--I don't think that interview opinions are always representative of duration, anyway.

[sodascouts]

Cool that you got to see him and had such a good time!


when it comes to opinions; opinions change.

Especially considering that the opinion was given in 1973. Seems like a waste of energy to get so worked up over an offhand comment that was made almost four decades ago.

[TimothyBFan]

WOW just WOW!!! Seriously need to chill out. We love to hear others opinions on almost anything but if I don't agree with you, please do not call me a "wanker", a "douche" or a "know nothing".

As a matter of fact, I do happen to know something about the New York Dolls and actually have a few of their albums. I also turned my son onto them and The Stooges several years ago and this past Christmas gave him a couple Dolls albums I had to pay a bit for at the last record show we attended.

That being said, I had not heard about the Eagles put down of the Dolls and would love to hear that story. I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with them being nothing more than a band that were made famous by the way they dressed and having no talent. Without them, we probably wouldn't have bands like The Talking Heads and The Ramones to name only a couple.

Welcome dewlover! Hope you can enjoy it here.

[TimothyBFan]

It's on page 78 of Take It to the Limit

See- that's what I get for not reading all the books that I have bought over the years about them. One of these days maybe I will actually crack open one of these books and read them but I doubt it. I'm still waiting for all of their individual autobiographies that I know they will eventually write! :hilarious:

[Lisa]

I have the book, and I just read (reread) the paragraph. Of course, it could also be the "Take It To The Limit" writer's interpretation of the event and the times in the music media! No real way of knowing. Marc Eliot's narrative writing style does seem to include the possiblility of a writer's own thinking in developing readable, engaging paragraphs! I like reading about the early Eagles and their road to national recognition and acceptance.

I don't know whether it is possible to gauge the media's reaction to the Eagles as being due simply to a stage comment. The media, (not only in one specific region, as is desribed and discussed in the "Take It To The Limit" paragraph on p.78; but also within the U.S.) has had its "bad criticism/negativity" runs with other groups (not only the Eagles) that have also been tremendouly popular and musically capable. Sometimes the music critics don't seem to readily accept or identify themselves with the mainstream acts on the U.S. touring and recording rosters. They often seem to try to find a novel direction in music, or to identify with acts that are exceptions to the popular mind of the public, rather than with the most popular acts to the public. The overly-critical articles, and concert and album reviews may be due to a music critic's identification process--to what the critic expects from musical shows and recordings--instead of due to any particular act on its own merits; and the exposition of the articles may be critically negative and unreceptive to an act, no matter what the given act eventually comes to mean to the record-buying and performance-going public.

However, if I had put my all into my act and into my recording and performing career, and if I then were to read all of those negative comments about my ability as an artist; my feelings would have probably been really hurt! And, that is, nonetheless to all of the popularity, attention, and opinions.
But, music criticism; the record-buying public; comcertgoers; and the force of the popular mind tends to fall hard when it comes to the individual performer or act, at least at times.

[sodascouts]

Well-said, Lisa.


I had not heard about the Eagles put down of the Dolls and would love to hear that story. I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with them being nothing more than a band that were made famous by the way they dressed and having no talent.

I hope no one is getting what Glenn said mixed up with the opinion of the original poster. Here's all that is said in To The Limit:

[Set up: In 1973, the Eagles were opening for Jethro Tull - a pairing that was not ideal considering their disparate styles.]

"Predictably, on most nights the still-unknown Eagles were met at best with indifference by crowds waiting impatiently for Tull to come roaring onto the stage. At one point, a frustrated Glenn Frey put down a noisy, impatient Madison Square Garden audience by telling it what he thought of its "hip" hometown and one of its so-called happening groups, the New York Dolls, an ad-lib that did nothing to endear the Eagles to the city's rock fans. [...] Also in the audience that night was the cream of the New York critics. [...] [The Eagles were] slammed the next day in the press because of Frey's comment."
We don't even know what exactly Glenn said, at least not by this account. Is there one elsewhere?

Also, as Lisa says, Eliot might be stretching it to blame years of negative reviews from New York critics on this one incident, as he does after relating this story.

[Freypower]

All I can remember is that Rolling Stone made a comment about the band's uneasy relationship with East Coast critics which dated from when the band 'denounced' the New York Dolls on stage. Rolling Stone is famous for its (mostly) sneering dismissal of the Eagles and its uncritical adulation of acts from the East Coast such as Bruce Springsteen. The Eagles never fitted into Rolling Stone's romanticisation of rock being from 'the street' and only relevant if the songs were about 'the street'.

[sodascouts]

I'm glad you said that, FP, because initially I thought that the mention of the NYD diss had come from Rolling Stone but figured I must have been wrong. Sure enough, though, when I went back to look at the 1979 article, I found this:
"Their relationship with their audience is the best it has ever been but remains odd. Except for Frey announcing, 'We're the Eagles from Los Angeles, California,' they do not talk to the people. (Perhaps after setting the tone for their foul relations with East Coast critics by denouncing the New York Dolls in New York in 1973, they are afraid that if they open their mouths they will denounce beer in Milwaukee.)"
However, Eliot's account has more narrative flair.

The Rolling Stone article also contains several disses from Glenn and Don Henley about punk rock in general, with Don almost getting into an altercation with a punk rock singer fronting a band called The Rubber City Rebels at the Troubadour. Interesting stuff!

An example that occurs while both Glenn and Irving Azoff are suffering from the flu:
"Throwing up is my least-favorite thing in the world," moans Frey.

"I wish I could throw up," groans Azoff.

"Well, why don't you have Charlie here [referring to Charles Young, the author of the Rolling Stone article] play you one of his punk-rock cassettes?" suggests Frey, near death but unerring in his instinct for endearing himself to New York rock critics.
LOL.

And another zinger from Glenn as they watch the aforementioned punk band Rubber City Rebels play at the Troubadour:
"I think any Flying Burrito Brother could whip any Rubber City Rebel."
There are more but you get the idea.

[TimothyBFan]

I hope no one is getting what Glenn said mixed up with the opinion of the original poster. Here's all that is said in To The Limit:



No worries there--I got it.

Thanks for giving us the exact quote from the book (I had yet to make my way to my stash to hunt down the book and check it out myself). And if that's the whole reason why this discussion was started and got rather ugly at times, I have to agree that it sounds more like the authors interpretation and in no way says that that is exactly what Glenn said in the first place.

Just another one of those things that will never be cleared up regarding the Eagles unless they finally put it all down in their own words someday.

[Cosmic Cowboy]

Well. I haven't been on here in a while and now all this. I didn't know it would cause a such a ruckus. Anyway, thanks for the responses with the book citations, that was informative.